That's a weird one because aren't we league top scorers? Surely that shows the chances are being created?It's a two-fold problem for me:
1. We dont create anywhere near enough, particularly this season. In Cavani we have one of the best strikers of the decade, renown for his brilliant movement... currently feeding off of one or two half chances a game.
2. Martial doesn't have the anticipation, if not the desire to get on to even the half chances that Cavani gets on to.
It really is a crap combo
Has Martial done enough to be backed as our long-term #9?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Seen a stat today that Bruno would have beaten the assists record already if x% of his chances created were finished- plus we are top scorers in the league so chance creation doesnt seem to be an issue.It's a two-fold problem for me:
1. We dont create anywhere near enough, particularly this season. In Cavani we have one of the best strikers of the decade, renown for his brilliant movement... currently feeding off of one or two half chances a game.
2. Martial doesn't have the anticipation, if not the desire to get on to even the half chances that Cavani gets on to.
It really is a crap combo
I've been very patient with Martial, as he's clearly a good player and has the potential to be a very good player if he really applied himself and improved his consistency and desire for goals.
However he's 25 now and hasn't sufficiently improved either, and I'm now at the point where I definitely don't want him to be the first choice #9 at the club. I'd still be happy to have him in the squad, with him battling for the left side of attack cutting in on his right foot and also able to play #9 when needed. But we really need a more reliable, goal hungry #9 as our first choice striker.
However he's 25 now and hasn't sufficiently improved either, and I'm now at the point where I definitely don't want him to be the first choice #9 at the club. I'd still be happy to have him in the squad, with him battling for the left side of attack cutting in on his right foot and also able to play #9 when needed. But we really need a more reliable, goal hungry #9 as our first choice striker.
I love Tony. On his day he’s a scintillating player. But he’s just not hungry enough. He’s always a yard or two too slow. And he doesn’t spend enough time in the box. He drops back when he should be running in to the near post. So many times you see him just get there too slow. He just doesn’t seem to have it in him. I think he’s better inside left cutting in. It’s a shame but I’m starting to feel like it’s time for him to go. Do think he could score on Sunday though. Come on Tony, prove the doubters including me, wrong!
Yeah the yard of slowness is a lack of anticipation and desire to gamble on the last line of the defence, or across the near post, as the ball goes in the box.
I honestly don't know how he expects to score if he's hiding behind centre backs and not making these movements.
He's capable, but doesn't seem like the type that would be inspired by studying the art (and graft) of being a #9. I wouldn't be surprised if he literally never watches football unless he has to.
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Absolutely not. We can't afford to have a first team player who goes missing for an entire season.
I've defended Martial ever since day one. I truly believed Rashford and him would be our new Dwight York and Andy Cole.
I tried to value his qualities while hoping he would overcome his flaws. In fact, I still think he has only one major flaw in inconsistency, but it has become too severe to be dismissed. He's the embodiment of flatter to deceive.
I thought that after last season he finally showed the world what he was capable of, and wouldn't look back. Instead, he followed that up with the worst season of his career so far. I don't know if there are external factors beyond this massive dip, but everything points to a player with a very frail mentality, which is always a no no for a side with the pretention to win titles against the best of the best once again.
Regrettably, I think the best for both parties is to go their separate ways. Still hope I'm wrong though.
We are turning on him "the moment he starts underperforming", really? Think you need to look at the definition of moment again mate, cause it certainly doesn't mean a full season.
Also it's not just that he's not scoring goals this season is it? He's offered no link up play, no movement, constantly expects the ball at his feet (after which he's lost it far too many times) and has a very poor workrate.
While he was class the second half of the last season, evidence points to that being a purple form since he's never shown that consistency over the years. He's no longer a young inexperienced player anymore.
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He occupies a spot in the squad like a pedophile occupies a bus seat on a 17 year olds bus trip to Alton Towers. Get rid. Really fecking winds me up. Crap. He's the Republican part member Guy de Maupassant of our front line. And yet there's still some kind of debate on here.
Outside of this season he's always been decently productive though. He's never scored as many as we all want or thought he could, but is a good player to have in the squad if we can accept his limitations. I don't see why we need to get rid of him, but we shouldn't think of him as our main striker either.
"decently productive". Kind of attainment Southampton or Bradford or the country of Portugal aspire to.
https://www.theunitedstand.com/arti...-bankroll-jadon-sancho-deal-Manchester-United
Second report in the last three days I’ve seen saying we’re looking to sell Martial, I’d be happy selling Martial and bringing Sancho in as it’d mean Greenwood playing as a centre forward on a consistent basis.
Second report in the last three days I’ve seen saying we’re looking to sell Martial, I’d be happy selling Martial and bringing Sancho in as it’d mean Greenwood playing as a centre forward on a consistent basis.
Not football related but pedophiles are not attracted to 17 year olds. They are attracted to prebuescent children that look at you and immediately assume you are a friend and someone to trust. Im just pointing it out because it can't be overstated just how monstrous actual pedophiles that act on their desires are. Putting them in the same bracket as sexual predators dillutes the perception of the gruesomeness of the abuse these children are subjected to. It's like comparing a shoplifter to Ted Bundy.
As for Martial: He's not done enough. He does enough on occasion but then there's this season.
He hasn't been too bad for United:
And while those numbers may not be fantastic either, but you could certainly accept them from a Mark Hughes type player.
The issue is more about his overall contribution to the team. His lack of workrate and movement in the box makes it really easy to defend the box against United. And that affects everyone around him, from the midfielders to the wingers to the fullbacks.
He's a brilliant finisher (when on form), a good dribbler, and average-to-below-average at everything else. To make it to the very top, he'd need to add another couple of strings to his bow. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening at all.
| Games | Goals | Assists | Minutes | Minutes per goal | Minutes per goal/assist | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Premier League | 165 | 55 | 30 | 11425 | 208 | 134 |
| UEFA Champions League | 27 | 6 | 4 | 1794 | 299 | 179 |
| FA Cup | 24 | 5 | 12 | 1503 | 301 | 88 |
| Europa League | 22 | 6 | 1 | 1312 | 219 | 187 |
| EFL Cup | 15 | 6 | 2 | 959 | 160 | 120 |
| Total | 253 | 78 | 49 | 16993 | 218 | 134 |
And while those numbers may not be fantastic either, but you could certainly accept them from a Mark Hughes type player.
The issue is more about his overall contribution to the team. His lack of workrate and movement in the box makes it really easy to defend the box against United. And that affects everyone around him, from the midfielders to the wingers to the fullbacks.
He's a brilliant finisher (when on form), a good dribbler, and average-to-below-average at everything else. To make it to the very top, he'd need to add another couple of strings to his bow. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening at all.
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Martial's past seasons are irrelevant. His present is relevant.
And right now he is showing 0 sign of improving his level as a player, and we are constantly seeming like a man down in games.
He has plenty of chances and failed to take them. I'm not sure how long a team in second place is supposed to persist with a player who is this bad.
As far as I am concerned, it's been long enough.
And right now he is showing 0 sign of improving his level as a player, and we are constantly seeming like a man down in games.
He has plenty of chances and failed to take them. I'm not sure how long a team in second place is supposed to persist with a player who is this bad.
As far as I am concerned, it's been long enough.
You're right on both counts and it was idiotic to rope it in as an analogy. No excuses.
Its the United Stand - a fan channel
Hes not done enough to get on the bench imo.
Too much to die but too less to live. For teams like Sevilla or Lyon that might be enough but not for Utd. .
I have been pretty frustrated with Martial all season. Clearly, his performances aren't there the way that we saw last season. Back then, it looked like he was about to evolve into a much more potent player than we'd seen, despite his "low-effort" approach.
One interesting point though is just how effective he's actually been with his back to goal. On this forum, typically this point is acknowledged but then dismissed. Here's a fun fact just to show how effective he is at this: out of all PL players, Martial is involved in the second-highest number of sequences that lead to a shot. There's not another United player in the top 5 (source: 21st club analytics).
Truth is, he is very effective with his back to goal. That said, I agree this is not enough alone to warrant the club committing to him, he needs to show more.
One interesting point though is just how effective he's actually been with his back to goal. On this forum, typically this point is acknowledged but then dismissed. Here's a fun fact just to show how effective he is at this: out of all PL players, Martial is involved in the second-highest number of sequences that lead to a shot. There's not another United player in the top 5 (source: 21st club analytics).
Truth is, he is very effective with his back to goal. That said, I agree this is not enough alone to warrant the club committing to him, he needs to show more.
Yeah, that's really digging through the stats category to find one thing where he's top 5 that's positive.
He has a place on this team, obviously not during this rough patch but it's not as if there's a ton of alternatives. Cavani is not someone you can count on for the full season at this point, and Greenwood is still a work in progress, but the problem is this insane contract he was given. It makes it almost impossible to move him because no team would offer him similar terms and I don't see him taking a paycut. Then you have a really overpaid squad option.
Can he get out of this rough patch? I think Martial always finds a way to come back, the problem is he inevitably loses that patch of form and goes back to mediocrity. I think for most people who supported Martial, and I count myself as definitely one of them, it felt like last season (despite the poor end of it), Martial finally showed he could be a #9 for the club, and it was encouraging to see him being able to do that in his first season playing the position. If that's what he was able to do in his first, imagine now etc....Boy, what a disappointment.
Utter gash.
He is a waste of space. He cannot even shield the ball
Not really worth a comment today, might as well have thrown Bailly up front.
He'll atleast win a few headers and hold the ball.
Was surprised he came on for Greenwood today, I thought he was playing well. Martial is past the point of no return for me though. Expect his game time to be dwindled down from now on. The next outing he gets will most likely be Europa League now, that's his level.
I bet Tuchel was relieved to see him come on today for Greenwood. Was anyone expecting a game winning goal from him?
Neville said it in commentary, that version of Martial we wouldn’t sell and I absolutely would have as our no 9.
Beyond the shite finish, he was superb today, played like a man on a mission.
We all would but I can’t see him doing it week in week out
In many ways its typical martial right, we've seen this performance so many times and that's what's so frustrating when we see the other performances
Was outstanding today (bar the finish)
If this version had been around all season we'd be a hell of a lot closer to city and probably still in the cl
Was outstanding today (bar the finish)
If this version had been around all season we'd be a hell of a lot closer to city and probably still in the cl
He was really great today but will he be in great his next game? Can HE did it consistently?? history shows he can not.
But well played today hope you get some form now.
But well played today hope you get some form now.
Martial played ok today. He is a decent striker, but it’s a long way up to the level of example Haaland and Kane. Imagine Haaland play today! He is almost an attack alone and fits our style of play perfectly.
He played quite decent today imo, but we can't base our opinion on his ability to lead the line on one game and forget literally the entire season.
I was saying in the match day thread against Crystal Palace he’d probably go on a run before the end of the season. I think it’s coming. He’s been shite and hasn’t worked hard enough all season but he was good today and could have had 2
He was good today but did miss a couple of good chanced.
He just isn't the answer for the no.9 role long term but on his day he's a fantastic. It's just a shame that those days are so irregular.
He just isn't the answer for the no.9 role long term but on his day he's a fantastic. It's just a shame that those days are so irregular.
When he plays like he did last season and again today he’s absolutely good enough to be our number 9. The question is though, why has he had such a poor season? Ultimately that is the conundrum and it’s cost us massively this season. Ole clearly loves him as a player but Martial has let him down big time and I’m not sure Ole will risk entering the next campaign putting in the same faith again. What a massive shame though as I really thought he would kick on from last year and we would have an absolute world class player. It’s clear that at his best he facilitates some fantastic football and most of our play goes through him.
Even when he plays as good as he did today, he’s still not the answer due to his shite finishing. We need better.
He had a great game and I love watching him when he is on form but unfortunately we can’t rely on him. I can’t imagine Kane, Mbappe, Haaland...hell even Vardy, DCL, Antonio or Aubameyang passing up that chance. We have too many players who have streaky form, we need someone who can regularly score from those positions. I would love to think that it is Greenwood but he needs to re-find his mojo next season.
I honestly don't think he was that good.
Yes he won the penalty
He also missed from 8 yards with the keeper to beat.
Had the touch of a Lukaku when through on goal
And headed the ball 3 inches under no pressure 5 yards out
Steady game, I think Neville was high on the win and massivley over hyped Martials contribution.
Kane or Haaland would of walked away with at least two goals from Martials chances and that's the difference between a title winning side and this one
Yes he won the penalty
He also missed from 8 yards with the keeper to beat.
Had the touch of a Lukaku when through on goal
And headed the ball 3 inches under no pressure 5 yards out
Steady game, I think Neville was high on the win and massivley over hyped Martials contribution.
Kane or Haaland would of walked away with at least two goals from Martials chances and that's the difference between a title winning side and this one
He’s not a #9 but he can still do a job for us and compete for minutes on the left. Greenwood will ultimately slot in as our long term striker but we definitely need more options.