Has Martial done enough to be backed as our long-term #9?

bosnian_red

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He was on pace for 20-25 goals in all competitions this season, and Rashford was our main scoring option anyway. So yeah, he for sure has done enough. Its a number that would only improve with Bruno here now and Pogba returning, and hopefully the right wing sorted. We don't necessarily need 1 clear goal hogging #9, but if we have Rashford at 20-25 goals, Martial at 20-25, Bruno at 10-15, pogba at ~10, our right winger (Sancho?) At ~15, then backup attackers like Greenwood at ~15 and Ighalo (or similar) at ~10, that's more than enough goals spread between the main scoring options.

Solve the RW with a player like Sancho, get Pogba and Bruno together in front of McTominay and we're good to go IMO. Just need to let the team develop and the youngsters to step up themselves.
 

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Firmino works really hard. Martial has a Benzema-like attitude that smells like lack of ambition.
What on earth are you talking about. Karim Benzema? Poor attitude? Ye gods.
 

Santoryo

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Good post. The bolded part is my issue with Martial. I've seen posts that say he's hold up play is a strong quality of his while another says his hold up play is shit. It's because Martial is inconsistent even during matches. I'll give him another season and use this one to focus on more pressing positions.
How many players consistently put flawless performances over the entire 90 minutes. Heck Bruno whom everyone loves hasn't had a full 90 minutes game where he's consistently great. He's had half games despite him being great for us so far. it doesn't mean he isn't a good player.

Complaining about players not putting in a 90 minutes flawless performance is ridiculous. That hardly happen and it's almost quite unsustainable to be great throughout the entire game.

Martial simply get unfair amount of sticks, especially for such a big game player. This season alone he's won us big games, consistently delivered in big games for the most part yet he's talked about as if he isn't an integral part of any good football or form we had this season. It's quite odd.



Espn need good pundits like Higginbotham instead of those other clown that watch MLS and shit on our players consistently.

He even insinuates that throughout his United career he has had 2-3 chances per game but with bruno and more creativitity we should see 5-6 chances per game which increases his consistency. Most worldclass strikers at other cubs always have 7-8 chances per game. Context always matters.
Finally someone insightful. Usually you get the cliche "he isn't a true CF" , "he wasn't at the end of x cross ", "he didn't run enough" etc. Quite refreshing to listening to someone who actually knows about the player he's talking about rather than regurgitate whatever current popular narrative he's heard of said player. It was a good watch.
 
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MadDogg

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You just described someone who's been given five years and two positions.
Most of his time here was under Mourinho where he certainly wasn't being treated fairly. That sounds like a bit of a cop-out but in Martial's case it was certainly the case, and was my main problem with Mourinho even in his first season or two when things were otherwise looking fairly decent. Martial was having to massively outperform everyone else to actually get a run in the side and would instantly be dropped the first sign of poor form (hell, he was sometimes dropped even when he was our best attacker). Meanwhile the players he was competing with were given game after game even when they were stinking up the place.

This season he's been fairly consistent except for the period after he came back from his hamstring injury. He also had a couple of bad games when Rashford first got injured and left our entire attack reliant on him (Rashford likewise struggled earlier in the season when Martial was injured). But otherwise, he's shown enough to think that he's 'almost' there, and that there is a good chance that with one more season under his belt he will reach the required level. Especially if we actually get a functional midfield behind him (which we didn't have this season after Pogba's injury and before Bruno's arrival) and a proper right winger.
 

Sky1981

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Most of his time here was under Mourinho where he certainly wasn't being treated fairly. That sounds like a bit of a cop-out but in Martial's case it was certainly the case, and was my main problem with Mourinho even in his first season or two when things were otherwise looking fairly decent. Martial was having to massively outperform everyone else to actually get a run in the side and would instantly be dropped the first sign of poor form (hell, he was sometimes dropped even when he was our best attacker). Meanwhile the players he was competing with were given game after game even when they were stinking up the place.

This season he's been fairly consistent except for the period after he came back from his hamstring injury. He also had a couple of bad games when Rashford first got injured and left our entire attack reliant on him (Rashford likewise struggled earlier in the season when Martial was injured). But otherwise, he's shown enough to think that he's 'almost' there, and that there is a good chance that with one more season under his belt he will reach the required level. Especially if we actually get a functional midfield behind him (which we didn't have this season after Pogba's injury and before Bruno's arrival) and a proper right winger.
If he doesnt become world class next year the same argument would stand. He's under ole who's not good enough, he needs competition, he needs world clase manager world class team, he's originally a left winger, it's corona hampering his development etc.

Most world class players thrive everywhere they go. Ronaldo at lisbon, ronaldo with us after the wink incident. They never rely on excuses. Zlatan never needs excuses, he performs everywhere he goes. Halaand is joining a new team it doesnt faze him.

We made too many excuses for martial, 5 years is a long time in football. It's half of your career most of the time. If you dont make it in year 5 at one club chances are you're not gonna make it in another 5.
 

Red Company

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If he doesnt become world class next year the same argument would stand. He's under ole who's not good enough, he needs competition, he needs world clase manager world class team, he's originally a left winger, it's corona hampering his development etc.

Most world class players thrive everywhere they go. Ronaldo at lisbon, ronaldo with us after the wink incident. They never rely on excuses. Zlatan never needs excuses, he performs everywhere he goes. Halaand is joining a new team it doesnt faze him.

We made too many excuses for martial, 5 years is a long time in football. It's half of your career most of the time. If you dont make it in year 5 at one club chances are you're not gonna make it in another 5.
I think that’s a little unfair because as the poster @MadDogg mentioned, Martial did not have the quality around him to provide a constant supply, as well as, poor management on Mourinho’s part, whereby delaying his progress.
Add to that the fact, he came to us at a very young age while our team was going through one of our worst transitions and constant team changes.
It’s only now that we’re getting to see him flourish.

Furthermore, when you mentioned Ole isn’t good enough, in all fairness, Ole too is only now able to showcase his coaching prowess once he was able to introduce Martial at his favoured position, Fred & McTominay into the fold, acquiring Bruno, and not to mention without Pogba for half his own tenure (since he became manager). While still lacking a few missing pieces and still having a fighting chance of top 4.
It is also important to note that a team chemistry is only starting to be seen after all aforementioned players along with the team started playing better, together. Perhaps his reputation would’ve been even better had De Gea not cost us a couple results?
 
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Sky1981

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I think that’s a little unfair because as the poster @MadDogg mentioned, Martial did not have the quality around him to provide a constant supply, as well as, poor management on Mourinho’s part, whereby delaying his progress.
Add to that the fact, he came to us at a very young age while our team was going through one of our worst transitions and constant team changes.
It’s only now that we’re getting to see him flourish.

Furthermore, when you mentioned Ole isn’t good enough, in all fairness, Ole too is only now able to showcase his coaching prowess once he was able to introduce Martial at his favoured position, Fred & McTominay into the fold, acquiring Bruno, and not to mention without Pogba for half his own tenure (since he became manager). While still lacking a few missing pieces and still having a fighting chance of top 4.
It is also important to note that a team chemistry is only starting to be seen after all aforementioned players along with the team started playing better, together. Perhaps his reputation would’ve been even better had De Gea not cost us a couple results?
That happens with all top world class players, they have had their fair share of being shoehorn into different position, playing with less than ideal teammates, a manager with different philosophy etc. Ronaldo spent his development years in Right wing, in a hostile post Euro environment.

You're saying that Martial only "has a chance to become world class, probably" if he gets to play in his favorite team, had 3 midfielder to play to his strenght, etc etc., which for me is another list of excuses to suit the narratives.

It's year 6 now, if he doesn't make it the next calendar year, at what point would you really says he wont make it?

PS: Ole's coaching prowess? Seriously?
 

Red Company

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That happens with all top world class players, they have had their fair share of being shoehorn into different position, playing with less than ideal teammates, a manager with different philosophy etc. Ronaldo spent his development years in Right wing, in a hostile post Euro environment.

You're saying that Martial only "has a chance to become world class, probably" if he gets to play in his favorite team, had 3 midfielder to play to his strenght, etc etc., which for me is another list of excuses to suit the narratives.

It's year 6 now, if he doesn't make it the next calendar year, at what point would you really says he wont make it?

PS: Ole's coaching prowess? Seriously?
Ronaldo, was on track to becoming not just Worldclass, but World #1/2. Comparing Martial to him is not relevant. However, i will say this, Ronaldo did not have to play with the level of players that Martial has had to play with while being managed negatively like Martial has been. And he didn’t need ‘3’ midfield players, even a solid 2 would’ve been nice. We did not have 2/3 of our midfield players performing constantly well.

I’d say he’s already proved himself enough to be given year 7, hence for me, he’s made it this year in year 6, simple based off of his stats in comparison to his previous years. He would’ve had more goals + assists if he had had more supply. Besides he’s still due a few more once the season resumes.
His work ethic has improved a lot but still has room for consistency.
Work ethic improving, which by the way, was Ole’s doing post-Mourinho times when it was clearly evident the entire team was well below standards before Ole arrived.

And yes, seriously. Ole’s philosophies have been the same since he arrived. Then why only now is our team beginning to perform well on a consistent basis?
It is only now evident, that all the starting 11 or so have played together enough to be able to be answerable for the level of impact and influence Ole has had on the team and it’s playing style. While also acquiring Bruno who has made us realize the lack of goal scoring opportunities we were creating. That only indicates poor quality.
We can not judge Ole until a team is in place that can hold its own, let alone challenge for trophies. I’m not sure if most of the other managers would’ve been able to do any better with the current crop of players we have. Maybe one or two at most. And then what? We’d already be in 4th position instead of 5th? We can still get there.
 
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Sky1981

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Ronaldo, was on track to becoming not just Worldclass, but World #1/2. Comparing Martial to him is not relevant. However, i will say this, Ronaldo did not have to play with the level of players that Martial has had to play with while being managed negatively like Martial has been. And he didn’t need ‘3’ midfield players, even a solid 2 would’ve been nice. We did not have 2/3 of our midfield players performing constantly well.

I’d say he’s already proved himself enough to be given year 7, hence for me, he’s made it this year in year 6, simple based off of his stats in comparison to his previous years. He would’ve had more goals + assists if he had had more supply. Besides he’s still due a few more once the season resumes.
His work ethic has improved a lot but still has room for consistency.
Work ethic improving, which by the way, was Ole’s doing post-Mourinho times when it was clearly evident the entire team was well below standards before Ole arrived.

And yes, seriously. Ole’s philosophies have been the same since he arrived. Then why only now is our team beginning to perform well on a consistent basis?
It is only now evident, that all the starting 11 or so have played together enough to be able to be answerable for the level of impact and influence Ole has had on the team and it’s playing style. While also acquiring Bruno who has made us realize the lack of goal scoring opportunities we were creating. That only indicates poor quality.
We can not judge Ole until a team is in place that can hold its own, let alone challenge for trophies. I’m not sure if most of the other managers would’ve been able to do any better with the current crop of players we have. Maybe one or two at most. And then what? We’d already be in 4th position instead of 5th? We can still get there.
We shall see.

I'm not putting too much hope on martial. He doesnt look like he has that hunger, focus, determination of a winner to me. He sulks alot, and even if he somehow cut that part of sulking it still remains to be seen how long that can last.

He sure got the skill, but most players at these level had some skill. It's that consistently performing said skill that matters.

Objectively speaking. When he can score 30 goals a season playing 40-50 games consistently for a few years in a row then I'd say he made it.
 

Nikelesh Reddy

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He’s certainly done enough to deserve another chance next season.His understanding and chemistry with Rashford seems to be improving,and even though we can’t really say that he’s come of age,but we can all quite clearly see the improvement in his game.I think that he should be given another chance next season to really establish himself as a top attacking player...
 

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We shall see.

I'm not putting too much hope on martial. He doesnt look like he has that hunger, focus, determination of a winner to me. He sulks alot, and even if he somehow cut that part of sulking it still remains to be seen how long that can last.

He sure got the skill, but most players at these level had some skill. It's that consistently performing said skill that matters.

Objectively speaking. When he can score 30 goals a season playing 40-50 games consistently for a few years in a row then I'd say he made it.
Hey man, end of the day I’m with you. Our patience is running out and sometimes rightfully so.

But I just feel more convinced that he’s finally ready now. He’s also a better option than Lukaku because his finishing is more clinical and reliable. It’s just the shortage of chances that he gets or creates.

Martial seems like a player who would sulk without a good setup around him but he is finally becoming a part of a good one.
One where he is getting the spotlight that he had been craving and also given somewhat of a leadership role which had been missing during Mourinho’s time.
In fact it was the other way around when the #9 was taken from him and given to Ibra, which is understandable, and than later to Lukaku, which really disheartened him and diminished his confidence, while also showcasing his sulking.
The club was not giving him the support that he needed, which was to play as a striker.

However, this season he was given a chance again and he has done a lot better. He was enjoying his partnership and key role alongside Rashford a lot as well.
Then he went through a tough spot post Rashfords injury but seemed overjoyed once Bruno arrived. It was clearly visible that he was enjoying having better quality service.

I truly believe once we fill the remaining pieces (specially RW), and until then, even if Pogba and Rashford are back, he will receive a lot more service.

I’d also like to add, in the modern game, I’d even be happy if instead of scoring 30 goals every season going forward, he can score 20/25 but also provide 15/20 assists.
That’s not to say that he can’t still score 30 goals while providing a high number of assists.
But his ability to switch positions and his skill in tight areas leads me to think his overall gameplay will be much better than Lukaku’s for instance.
End of the day, if our teams overall number of goals can increase by Martial’s contribution in multiple aspects of the game and not be singular (just goals), than we are better off, than having a strict striker who is only able to take advantage of specific situations (Lukaku).
 
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Sky1981

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Hey man, end of the day I’m with you. Our patience is running out and sometimes rightfully so.

But I just feel more convinced that he’s finally ready now. He’s also a better option than Lukaku because his finishing is more clinical and reliable. It’s just the shortage of chances that he gets or creates.

Martial seems like a player who would sulk without a good setup around him but he is finally becoming a part of a good one.
One where he is getting the spotlight that he had been craving and also given somewhat of a leadership role which had been missing during Mourinho’s time.
In fact it was the other way around when the #9 was taken from him and given to Ibra, which is understandable, and than later to Lukaku, which really disheartened him and diminished his confidence, while also showcasing his sulking.

However, this season he was given a chance again and he has done a lot better. He was enjoying his partnership and key role alongside Rashford a lot as well.
Then he went through a tough spot post Rashfords injury but seemed overjoyed once Bruno arrived. It was clearly visible that he was enjoying having better quality service.

I truly believe once we fill the remaining pieces (specially RW), and until then, even if Pogba and Rashford are back, he will receive a lot more service.
If he hypothetically receives 2x more services he'll perform 2x better.

But isnt that holds true to any othet striker?

If he and halaand for example gets the same 10 services per game. Halaand would still outperform martial.

The thing is we're not only asking him to be good enough. With bruno pogba mct and god forbid sancho he will have to perform better than simply getting there.

His performance is hardly enough for top 4 teams let alone teams with title challenge aspirations we aim to be.

Tl;dr he needs to be 2x the player he is now for us to challenge for the title? Will he? Not likely I say.
 

Red Company

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If he hypothetically receives 2x more services he'll perform 2x better.

But isnt that holds true to any othet striker?

If he and halaand for example gets the same 10 services per game. Halaand would still outperform martial.

The thing is we're not only asking him to be good enough. With bruno pogba mct and god forbid sancho he will have to perform better than simply getting there.

His performance is hardly enough for top 4 teams let alone teams with title challenge aspirations we aim to be.

Tl;dr he needs to be 2x the player he is now for us to challenge for the title? Will he? Not likely I say.
Yes that is my point. Lukaku received a lot more goal scoring opportunities but he wasted half of them. Martial has received comparably less chances this season but still made more of them.

Haaland has had the benefit of playing in two really attacking systems. Martial did not always get such freedom.
LVG and Mourinho were both much more defensive minded which is not favourable to Martial.
 

Sky1981

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Yes that is my point. Lukaku received a lot more goal scoring opportunities but he wasted half of them. Martial has received comparably less chances this season but still made more of them.

Haaland has had the benefit of playing in two really attacking systems. Martial did not always get such freedom.
LVG and Mourinho were both much more defensive minded which is not favourable to Martial.
Which is to me another list of excuse made only for martial.

In your own paragraph lukaku wasnt even given any defense although they play in the same team under the same manager in the same system. Martial given the excuses while lukaku was given the death sentence

This is what irks me. Other player got judged hastily as shit. While we spend 6 years and a long list excuse just to justify whether or not martial deserves the 6th season.

He'll never reach higher heights than he has, a slight good form but i doubt he has more in his tank. 5 years is a long time in football, if you're not great at 25 i doubt you'd be great at 28
 

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We shall see.

I'm not putting too much hope on martial. He doesnt look like he has that hunger, focus, determination of a winner to me. He sulks alot, and even if he somehow cut that part of sulking it still remains to be seen how long that can last.

He sure got the skill, but most players at these level had some skill. It's that consistently performing said skill that matters.

Objectively speaking. When he can score 30 goals a season playing 40-50 games consistently for a few years in a row then I'd say he made it.
That's a ridiculous metric to say if someone's made it. Batistuta never hit those numbers but I would have put good money he'd be a hit here if he had. 20 goals a season would be superb, considering what we expect from someone like Rashford as well. A good comparison is Cole and Yorke (albeit he got very close to 30). If they're both getting 20+, and playing 40 games a season, Martial would have made it. You can't always have a Salah, Messi, Ronaldo or Kane in your team.
 

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Which is to me another list of excuse made only for martial.

In your own paragraph lukaku wasnt even given any defense although they play in the same team under the same manager in the same system. Martial given the excuses while lukaku was given the death sentence

This is what irks me. Other player got judged hastily as shit. While we spend 6 years and a long list excuse just to justify whether or not martial deserves the 6th season.

He'll never reach higher heights than he has, a slight good form but i doubt he has more in his tank. 5 years is a long time in football, if you're not great at 25 i doubt you'd be great at 28

Spot on
 

Preggy99

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In a word, No. Bring in Håland from Dortmund, Beast of a player, a true number 9. Teach Martial and Rashford how to cross and create. Håland could get 30+ a year for us.
 

lenny_1248

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I really don't know what the fuss is about. He certainly have done enough to be a number 9 next season (at least). And he will be, whether you like it or not.
He is the most naturally gifted player in the club after Pogba. He made his debut at the club at 19, Rashford at 18. They both have identical career stats. So, why shit on him? You all know it's the first season for him playing number 9, you all know he missed 2 months, you all know he played 90% of time with Pereira and Lingard, who are just abysmal. And he still scored 16 goals. He has definitely become a better player. Work rate, hold-up play, pressing, left foot, he IS making the progress.
Honestly, all this talk about his laziness, lack of emotions, it's so irritating. It has become a lazy punditry. Just because Garry Neville said it once, now f-ing everyone starts arguments with this. It's complete nonsense.

Just a remainder that United beat City and Chelsea both home and away this season. Martial scored in all games, in 3 of them his goals were winning goals.
Did you know that when Ibrahimovic scored more than 20 goals for the first time in the league, he was 27?

80% percent of people who talk shit about Martial are the same people who called Rashford "Rashbeck". I can guarantee that. No shame.
 

BenitoSTARR

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We shall see.

I'm not putting too much hope on martial. He doesnt look like he has that hunger, focus, determination of a winner to me. He sulks alot, and even if he somehow cut that part of sulking it still remains to be seen how long that can last.

He sure got the skill, but most players at these level had some skill. It's that consistently performing said skill that matters.

Objectively speaking. When he can score 30 goals a season playing 40-50 games consistently for a few years in a row then I'd say he made it.
This is honestly one of the craziest bars to set as success for any player in world football unless they are playing in a completely dominant side in the league and are a pure finisher. Not even Rooney or Ronaldo managed consecutive 30+ seasons whilst at United! So your saying Martial has to outperform arguably two of the greatest players in PL history to be considered just to have made it?

In fact the only Manchester United player in the PL era to have managed consecutive 30+seasons was RVN 01/02, 02/03, 03/04.
That's a ridiculous metric to say if someone's made it. Batistuta never hit those numbers but I would have put good money he'd be a hit here if he had. 20 goals a season would be superb, considering what we expect from someone like Rashford as well. A good comparison is Cole and Yorke (albeit he got very close to 30). If they're both getting 20+, and playing 40 games a season, Martial would have made it. You can't always have a Salah, Messi, Ronaldo or Kane in your team.
This! If you can get a 1/2 or better ratio consistently in the PL and CL etc you're doing well. Martial with a full season would have done so this year.
 

Red Company

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Which is to me another list of excuse made only for martial.

In your own paragraph lukaku wasnt even given any defense although they play in the same team under the same manager in the same system. Martial given the excuses while lukaku was given the death sentence

This is what irks me. Other player got judged hastily as shit. While we spend 6 years and a long list excuse just to justify whether or not martial deserves the 6th season.

He'll never reach higher heights than he has, a slight good form but i doubt he has more in his tank. 5 years is a long time in football, if you're not great at 25 i doubt you'd be great at 28
Hey man, me and you can go round and round in circles repeating our explanations. I haven’t made a single excuse except try to prove my point factually.

Why would Lukaku be defended? His first touch was horrendous and he missed so many chances. That’s why he was axed.
Him and Martial played in the same system etc etc but who was the striker? Lukaku. Not Martial.
Had Martial played the striker role and performed as bad as Lukaku, I too would’ve wanted to sell Martial.

How can you say Martial won’t hit better heights when he’s already trending better stats this season compared to his previous years?

Did you pay any attention to any of the reasons I gave to why Martial has not had a lot of success up until now that he’s 25!?
I mentioned, a team in transition (one of its worst), him being played out of position, not being given enough game time. Are these excuses or facts?

You yourself are to blame for being disappointed by Martial because you thought he’s the next Ronaldo and he’s not. Your expectations will not always come true. He’s a player of his own style and just because he doesn’t score 30 or 50 goals a season doesn’t make him any less gifted.
He has more skill, technique and a better first touch than most players in our team. Second to Pogba only in my opinion.

At the rate that you’re going at, more than half our team should be kicked out. Pogba, well cuz he hasn’t scored and assisted 15 goals/assists each in any season. Rashford cuz he hasn’t become the next Ronaldo yet either haha. Fred & McTominay not good enough yet so let’s get 2 KdB’s in why don’t we? You should probably start supporting a ready made team where it’s all galacticos.

The players you’re trying to compare Martial with have no relevance to him.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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I can imagine the reason many people on here give Martial the stick is cause he's the no.9 of what is one of the biggest clubs in the world. We've always had no.9s that top European teams would have - Lukaku, Ibrahimovic, Van Persie, Rooney, RvN etc. Maybe Martial seems like a downgrade from these players.
 

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He sulks alot, and even if he somehow cut that part of sulking it still remains to be seen how long that can last.
Genuine question, when did this actually happen? I see it said on here a lot and I don’t know if I’m just missing the obvious but I just don’t see it. It feels like people dislike the fact that he’s often expressionless.
 

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Which is to me another list of excuse made only for martial.

In your own paragraph lukaku wasnt even given any defense although they play in the same team under the same manager in the same system. Martial given the excuses while lukaku was given the death sentence

This is what irks me. Other player got judged hastily as shit. While we spend 6 years and a long list excuse just to justify whether or not martial deserves the 6th season.

He'll never reach higher heights than he has, a slight good form but i doubt he has more in his tank. 5 years is a long time in football, if you're not great at 25 i doubt you'd be great at 28
Lukaku was scoring goals and was still not a good enough player, why? because his all round game was poor.

Martial on the other hand has this play, just because he has a different attitude on the pitch doesn't mean he is poor.

Martial has done more than enough to be given next season as our No. 9 because of his form this season and how he looked just before the lockdown. He was forming relationships with Bruno and already has one with Rashford.

In respects to his age, he is 24 and he has had a good year considering where we have been this year. Players come into their peak at 24-28 so Martial is entering his now.

If he is poor next season sure, he should be replaced.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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Genuine question, when did this actually happen? I see it said on here a lot and I don’t know if I’m just missing the obvious but I just don’t see it. It feels like people dislike the fact that he’s often expressionless.
It was towards the end of last season from what I remember. He's always lose the ball and wouldn't even bother tracking back or pressing. There's no smoke without fire. Alot of people talk about Martials laziness or sulking cause it happened. Even Ole started benching him last season
 

OL29

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It was towards the end of last season from what I remember. He's always lose the ball and wouldn't even bother tracking back or pressing. There's no smoke without fire. Alot of people talk about Martials laziness or sulking cause it happened. Even Ole started benching him last season
Can’t say I remember it to be honest. I’ve seen him lose the ball and not instantly sprint to get it back but I’ve seen most other players do the same. He’s seemed pretty diligent in his pressing this season and it’s something that’s resulted in a few goals I believe.

He’s no Park Ji Sung but I don’t really believe his work rate is a problem. Consistency seems to be the biggest thing holding him back.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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Lukaku was scoring goals and was still not a good enough player, why? because his all round game was poor.

Martial on the other hand has this play, just because he has a different attitude on the pitch doesn't mean he is poor.

Martial has done more than enough to be given next season as our No. 9 because of his form this season and how he looked just before the lockdown. He was forming relationships with Bruno and already has one with Rashford.

In respects to his age, he is 24 and he has had a good year considering where we have been this year. Players come into their peak at 24-28 so Martial is entering his now.

If he is poor next season sure, he should be replaced.
Yeah next season is when we should all judge him. There wouldn't be any excuse by then. Nobody saying he's not performing because we have no creator or how he's only just starting out as a striker after a while.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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Can’t say I remember it to be honest. I’ve seen him lose the ball and not instantly sprint to get it back but I’ve seen most other players do the same. He’s seemed pretty diligent in his pressing this season and it’s something that’s resulted in a few goals I believe.

He’s no Park Ji Sung but I don’t really believe his work rate is a problem. Consistency seems to be the biggest thing holding him back.
I remember it clearly and it's suprisin how no one brings up Ole benching him last season
 

OL29

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I remember it clearly and it's suprisin how no one brings up Ole benching him last season
Is it really that relevant? There’s plenty of reasons to put a player on the bench. McTominay’s started some games on the bench too, doesn’t mean Ole doesn’t rate him. The fact that Martial plays every big game should probably tell you more.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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Is it really that relevant? There’s plenty of reasons to put a player on the bench. McTominay’s started some games on the bench too, doesn’t mean Ole doesn’t rate him. The fact that Martial plays every big game should probably tell you more.
Aren't you the one that asked when Martial sulked. And that's the reason Ole benched him, he wasn't playing well and his attitude at that time wasn't encouraging. He's improve though
 

Sky1981

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Hey man, me and you can go round and round in circles repeating our explanations. I haven’t made a single excuse except try to prove my point factually.

Why would Lukaku be defended? His first touch was horrendous and he missed so many chances. That’s why he was axed.
Him and Martial played in the same system etc etc but who was the striker? Lukaku. Not Martial.
Had Martial played the striker role and performed as bad as Lukaku, I too would’ve wanted to sell Martial.

How can you say Martial won’t hit better heights when he’s already trending better stats this season compared to his previous years?

Did you pay any attention to any of the reasons I gave to why Martial has not had a lot of success up until now that he’s 25!?
I mentioned, a team in transition (one of its worst), him being played out of position, not being given enough game time. Are these excuses or facts?

You yourself are to blame for being disappointed by Martial because you thought he’s the next Ronaldo and he’s not. Your expectations will not always come true. He’s a player of his own style and just because he doesn’t score 30 or 50 goals a season doesn’t make him any less gifted.
He has more skill, technique and a better first touch than most players in our team. Second to Pogba only in my opinion.

At the rate that you’re going at, more than half our team should be kicked out. Pogba, well cuz he hasn’t scored and assisted 15 goals/assists each in any season. Rashford cuz he hasn’t become the next Ronaldo yet either haha. Fred & McTominay not good enough yet so let’s get 2 KdB’s in why don’t we? You should probably start supporting a ready made team where it’s all galacticos.

The players you’re trying to compare Martial with have no relevance to him.

Seriously? Your post is all excuses.

Yes that is my point. Lukaku received a lot more goal scoring opportunities but he wasted half of them. Martial has received comparably less chances this season but still made more of them.

Haaland has had the benefit of playing in two really attacking systems. Martial did not always get such freedom.
LVG and Mourinho were both much more defensive minded which is not favourable to Martial.
Whether they're valid or not it's a different discussion, but don't tell me you're not giving Martial a list of excuse.

Mourinho : check
Teammates : check
System : check
Manager : Check
Injury : Check

But yeah, no excuse.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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Seriously? Your post is all excuses.



Whether they're valid or not it's a different discussion, but don't tell me you're not giving Martial a list of excuse.

Mourinho : check
Teammates : check
System : check
Manager : Check
Injury : Check

But yeah, no excuse.
Those excuses would be gone by next season
 

BenitoSTARR

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I can imagine the reason many people on here give Martial the stick is cause he's the no.9 of what is one of the biggest clubs in the world. We've always had no.9s that top European teams would have - Lukaku, Ibrahimovic, Van Persie, Rooney, RvN etc. Maybe Martial seems like a downgrade from these players.
The problem here though is he’s getting stick without people accepting the reality of where our club has been whilst he’s been here.

We have been shockingly below the levels of a SAF side and I’m astonished people would expect more of a player who has been pushed one way and another shoved out wide stripped off his number and has been regularly playing with people like Lingard as a creative outlet.

He’s being compared to players who are at their peaks or whose best seasons we have seen whilst in great sides (the exception being Van Persie who was just outstanding in an average side) and Martial was in the middle of his best season despite having no creative CM until January due to Pogba’s injury no creative wide player as Rashford is more of a wide forward.

This next season with Fernandes, Pogba and hopefully Sancho I think you’ll see the 20+ goals kind of form from him and. I would expect in the PL alone about 17.
 

KennyBurner

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I can imagine the reason many people on here give Martial the stick is cause he's the no.9 of what is one of the biggest clubs in the world. We've always had no.9s that top European teams would have - Lukaku, Ibrahimovic, Van Persie, Rooney, RvN etc. Maybe Martial seems like a downgrade from these players.
In what universe is Martial a downgrade to lukaku? If we were to sell Martial today he wouldn’t go for anything less than 75. He is up there.
 

KennyBurner

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The problem here though is he’s getting stick without people accepting the reality of where our club has been whilst he’s been here.

We have been shockingly below the levels of a SAF side and I’m astonished people would expect more of a player who has been pushed one way and another shoved out wide stripped off his number and has been regularly playing with people like Lingard as a creative outlet.

He’s being compared to players who are at their peaks or whose best seasons we have seen whilst in great sides (the exception being Van Persie who was just outstanding in an average side) and Martial was in the middle of his best season despite having no creative CM until January due to Pogba’s injury no creative wide player as Rashford is more of a wide forward.

This next season with Fernandes, Pogba and hopefully Sancho I think you’ll see the 20+ goals kind of form from him and. I would expect in the PL alone about 17.
They never want to apply context to anything in life. Everything is always black and white. That same poster is insinuating lukaku is a top player.
 

OL29

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Trying to be cute but if a coach drops a player in poor form I mean it's quite obvious
This is my whole point. Players get dropped for poor form all the time. Why does it have to be about attitude and sulking when it comes to Martial? Why isn’t he afforded the luxury of simply being out of form?
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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This is my whole point. Players get dropped for poor form all the time. Why does it have to be about attitude and sulking when it comes to Martial? Why isn’t he afforded the luxury of simply being out of form?
I'm pretty sure that's a combination of him not pressing for the ball and his expressionless face. He presses now though. He also plays in a cool and "don't stress me type of way" which i like
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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They never want to apply context to anything in life. Everything is always black and white. That same poster is insinuating lukaku is a top player.
Don't get me wrong I'd rather have Martial but let's not pretend like Lukaku isn't a top player please
 

Art Vandelay

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Most of his time here was under Mourinho where he certainly wasn't being treated fairly. That sounds like a bit of a cop-out but in Martial's case it was certainly the case, and was my main problem with Mourinho even in his first season or two when things were otherwise looking fairly decent. Martial was having to massively outperform everyone else to actually get a run in the side and would instantly be dropped the first sign of poor form (hell, he was sometimes dropped even when he was our best attacker). Meanwhile the players he was competing with were given game after game even when they were stinking up the place.

This season he's been fairly consistent except for the period after he came back from his hamstring injury. He also had a couple of bad games when Rashford first got injured and left our entire attack reliant on him (Rashford likewise struggled earlier in the season when Martial was injured). But otherwise, he's shown enough to think that he's 'almost' there, and that there is a good chance that with one more season under his belt he will reach the required level. Especially if we actually get a functional midfield behind him (which we didn't have this season after Pogba's injury and before Bruno's arrival) and a proper right winger.
He couldn't cement his place under a manager, that's not a reason for more time or faith. Rojo and Lukaku played under Mourinho and it's not an excuse for them. Shaw is a player people say we need to upgrade on, again he was under Mourinho. Why isn't it the same excuses for them?

Again I'm not saying he needs to go, I'm saying he should be in the same boat as players like Shaw where we know it's somewhere we need to look at upgrading rather than waiting for someone to come good after 5 years. On top of that he's in a position with very little competition so we know we need to bring someone in there.