How much points did Pep make up from 4th to the title in his second year? It can be done. But, big but!!! You buy players who can get the job done. Obviously we just give deadwood new contracts. So we are where we are.
Has Ole given up on next season already?
- Thread starter Ranchero
- Start date
I'm sticking to my belief that this time next year, Ole will have left (one way or another)
I find the comments incredibly disappointing. United are very unlikely to challenge for the title next season and Ole realising that is no issue. But saying that is a major issue.
He got the job because he made the club feel like United again. He set expectations of how the team should play and the winning culture the club should have. The wheels have come off, performances have slumped but how quickly his mood and demeanour has changed is a major worry.
The advantage all top teams have is that they truly believe they will win every game and the opposition think the same. That is why United had so many late winners through the Fergie years. That belief is also why they beat PSG, but it now seems like being on the crest of a wave of momentum rather than true belief. How will any team fear United if even their own manager thinks they're shit?
My biggest worry about all of this isn't that Ole thinks it's a big job that takes time to implement. It's that he sees how poorly the club is run and doesn't think he'll be able to improve things and now he's trying to lower expectations so he stays in the job longer.
He got the job because he made the club feel like United again. He set expectations of how the team should play and the winning culture the club should have. The wheels have come off, performances have slumped but how quickly his mood and demeanour has changed is a major worry.
The advantage all top teams have is that they truly believe they will win every game and the opposition think the same. That is why United had so many late winners through the Fergie years. That belief is also why they beat PSG, but it now seems like being on the crest of a wave of momentum rather than true belief. How will any team fear United if even their own manager thinks they're shit?
My biggest worry about all of this isn't that Ole thinks it's a big job that takes time to implement. It's that he sees how poorly the club is run and doesn't think he'll be able to improve things and now he's trying to lower expectations so he stays in the job longer.
Thanks, but I think you have read, but not fully understood.Fergie was a special manager but he's not here any more, so don't see the point of bringing fergie into this.
You were on a roll until that bold part. Lingard can be Messi but only when he wants to/Jones can be Vidic But only when he wants to. They showed consistency over the course of 14 games then fell apart, yeah they really showed everyone how they can perform over the season. Big difference between being consistent over the course of a season and over certain number of games. Over the course of a season we see players real quality and its usually wise to take their performances over the season rather the certain number of games as that can lead people (you) to believe they are far better than they actually showed over the season.
You think we're not missing quality in this team?
Young
Smalling
Jones
Rojo
Matic
Lingard
Fred
Baily
Lukaku
If only they put in more effort and showed leadership then that will completely Erase their limitations such as ; Pass/Cross/Shoot/Dribble/Defend/Composure/Control of the ball/Footballing Intelligence.
The point about Alex Ferguson is that he did not need the greatest players to produce successful teams. The mark of a good manager (to say nothing of a great one) is the ability to consistently bring the best out of the resources available to them. Managers do this by inspiring, cajoling, encouraging and as necessary chastising their players. That is exactly what Ole should be able to do as well. It is the bread and butter of management at any level. If on the other hand Ole cannot do this, he will not be United manager this time next year, of that you can be sure.
If you are implying that the ability to coax game-raising consistency is a characteristic that was unique to Ferguson, then presumably your are saying that Ole is not up to the job? If that's the case then say so? However, if you do think that Ole is the right man for the job then, yes, he will have to get the players to deliver at and beyond their potential and do so on a regular and consistent basis. From what I can see of the list that you have set out, I think nearly half of that number will likely start next season and Ole will need to get a tune out of them.
Also please point out where I said that improvements were not needed to the team? As I recall, I stated: "Clearly there are a number of areas that need to be urgently strengthened...."
Did you miss that bit?
I’m just sick of overrating our players and being completely bias towards them because I’m a United fan. I’m just come to that conclusion that we only have one world class player and that being De Gea. we Have a few players that could be good but there attitudes seem to stink - Pogba, Martial etc. We have Rashford who could be great but isn’t reaching his potential most likely because he is in a shocking team. Then there is the absolute dross - Lukaku, Lingard, Jones, Smalling, Young, Matic, Sanchez l, Bailly who I have stuck up for them all but now just simply realise they are not good enough no matter what they do. Not forgetting McTominay and Shaw who are good players but not the quality that should be starting for our team week in week out. Lindelof I like. That’s a big overhaul, but I’m not a manager so I’m probably wrong about most of these.
I think it will lead players to leave, and that's fine.
We arn't gonna compete next season, it would probably take 300 + million to get this team near to competing and that's if every signing panned out, and the managed to gel togther as a team. And when we are throwing that kind of money about we are likly to attract the wrong sort of player, players looking for one last big pay check. We don't want to become the China or the MLS of the premier league.
We need to start get realistic, and start building brick by brick, get our foundations in place. Not go throw money at the problem which is what we have done since Fergie left and its been a disaster!
Yeah with the right players in there could be quick improvements. I guess the problem is we don't have a clue in the market. Although that is more an excuse then.
Agreed. I think our problem is we are accepting mediocrity, while pep went out and addressed all the weakness he felt city had. Not having CL football next year will hinder us but if we present a solid plan to any recruits they will surely come. We need a clear direction before we should start thinking about whether we can compete or not.
he'll be thinking who will come to use over city and liverpol.
Better to play things down and over perform rather than say we're definitely winning everything and come miles off
My guess: Ole thinks is possible to build a competitive side but can't say it openly because his players are spineless, will show their best as underdogs and can not operate under pressure to achieve something.
Pep and Klopp didn't even challenge for the EPL in their first year after bringing in 7 players into their squad yet you expect Ole to challenge considering the lot of dross in the team as well as Pogba leaving? We need a whole new midfield, attack and defence! If some people can't remember that, let me remind them.
Pep even had the likes of de bruyne, Silva, Aguero, Otamendi, Yaya, Sterling, kompany in his team before adding others yet won nothing in his first year. The mentality some of our fans have is the achilles of the club and what is spurring Woodward.
Pep even had the likes of de bruyne, Silva, Aguero, Otamendi, Yaya, Sterling, kompany in his team before adding others yet won nothing in his first year. The mentality some of our fans have is the achilles of the club and what is spurring Woodward.
Saying we’re going to win the league next year would be down right deluded. He’s just keeping it real.
Pep did go for the title though. It was very clear even if he did fail. Pep probably mainly talked about improvement and following his ideas about football though. Although he is always going for the titles.
Are we going to do that or not?
Klopp did almost win two titles too. Although I remember the celebration they had after a 2-2 draw against West Brom at home. That was totally crazy in my view, but Klopp has always been a bit crazy. I don't think Ole got a mentality to do things like that and make it work for our squad.
We don't have City's squad players let alone their first team players yet you want us to challenge them in title race? I would rather we make top four.
This.
Why the comparison with Moyes? Mourinho was saying the same things before he left.
Now granted, part of the good atmosphere and positivity was Ole not saying those kinds of things like Mourinho before him and being upbeat about our progress. Seems like after his honeymoon period he's started moving more towards what Mourinho was saying, although obviously not publically blaming certain players like Mourinho did.
Now granted, part of the good atmosphere and positivity was Ole not saying those kinds of things like Mourinho before him and being upbeat about our progress. Seems like after his honeymoon period he's started moving more towards what Mourinho was saying, although obviously not publically blaming certain players like Mourinho did.
We could challenge them with good management and some great signings. If we fail we will be top 4 anyway if we have improved.
It is not like our squad totally lack quality anyway. I think the big difference is that they got much better quality up front, more creativity and better tactics overall. Ole could improve the tactical parts, but would need 2-3 attacking midfielders/wingers/strikers to give us a good enough attack. Could also develop the attacking players we got with good management.
We might not be able to attract the top attacking players we need though or find some cheaper gems that could be good enough.
Liverpool finished 25 points behind Man City last season.Just saying....
You admit to not knowing who he is. Of course your point isn't very valid.
True, but they are not going to win it
. The truth is City had it all under 100% control.While several years into a rebuild, with a defined style of play, with Salah, Mane, Firmino, VVD, Robertson, Wijnaldum and the rest already brought in, having reached the final of the CL.
If a team that far ahead of where we're currently at can still finish 25 points behind the leaders then it just goes to show how much work we have to do before we challenge. Forget Liverpool from this year, we're miles off that Liverpool from last year too despite the gap that existed between them and City.
Our squad lacks total quality except for Pogba, Martial and De gea. Two of them (Pogba and Martial) are lazy langiud players who don't give a feck. Other players such as MCTominay, Lindelof, Shaw, Rashford, Smalling should be squad players at best. While the others are totally bang average or deadwoods.
We need new attack, new midfield and a new defence. Personally, I will be happy if we could luck in new signings who could get us play quality football with lot of creativity capped with a top four finish.
But they knew what they were doing in the window. We know Woodward is clueless moron who won't convince the managers to get us the squad in one season, let alone he let go Herrera for free and robbed us of 35 m itself of his value.
I don’t know who he is because he’s a nobody at 22! Hence my whole frigging point.
I didn’t know who Lee Grant was but you’d didn’t see me expecting him to improve our squad. Unlike some of he dumb reactions on here because the kid can run fast.
Our club is in a spot where a quick decline is possible due to our squad being heavily compromised on quality and numbers. So any more problems with lack of signings combined with a new manager who ordinarily takes time anyways, it'll be a real patience test. I think if Ole gets good signings, he'll still struggle to make us really compete. He might take us close, similarly to this season but not any more than that.
I get why people feel unsettled with Ole but this is the time to be settled for a couple of years. It isn't going to be a quick fix whatever we do at this point, so might as well just sit back and watch for now.
I get why people feel unsettled with Ole but this is the time to be settled for a couple of years. It isn't going to be a quick fix whatever we do at this point, so might as well just sit back and watch for now.
I think what Ole's trying to do here is to build a long term legacy just like what Fergie did. He's just being real here and most of us knows it. He could also be trying to send a message out to the players or future players that they should't expect much silverware next season. He probably wants players that are willing to stay 3-4 years for the rebuild to work. We are definitely not going to sign 7 8 players this window and would probably need at least 3 windows to have stability in the first 11.
Imagine another player that comes in expecting us to challenge for the title next season and realizes how shit this squad is, would probably create more unrest and instability in the squad. Just look at Klopp think about how long it took him to form a Liverpool squad that is on the verge of 2 of the biggest trophies in club football, And also getting to the final of UCL last year. Poch, how many seasons at Spurs?
The only target for next season should just be seeing at least some improvement from the squad.
Imagine another player that comes in expecting us to challenge for the title next season and realizes how shit this squad is, would probably create more unrest and instability in the squad. Just look at Klopp think about how long it took him to form a Liverpool squad that is on the verge of 2 of the biggest trophies in club football, And also getting to the final of UCL last year. Poch, how many seasons at Spurs?
The only target for next season should just be seeing at least some improvement from the squad.
20 years ago, maybe. It's the same price as a Clucas or a Wood, and if he doesn't work out, his sell on fee will be around that anyway. It's pretty cheap all things considered, particularly when you consider there was interest from 5 of the top 6 clubs.
I think Ole just doesn't want to set a crazy high target for himself that people will then hold him to and continually use against him to the detriment of everything. He perhaps also wants to push the club into spending.
So, that's it? Ole has been told that the upcoming summer transfer window will be peanuts? Not even a couple of Top Players? Do we have to cannibalize Wolves, and Watford, is that it?
Here are my thoughts.
Almost every ManUtd fan on this planet is going to have low expectations for results next season.
The competing clubs are going to have low expectations for ManUtd next season.
He is right to play down the expectations towards the media, fans and rivald. It’s time to bring an end to the endless disappointments. Now there is time for reflection on our values and rebuilding. Rebuilding the team and strengthening our foundations.
As fans we will be happy with 4th next season.
Ole will have higher expectations in the changing room.
He will want his players to believe, he will have taken off some of the pressure from the fans and the media in order to create focus and change work ethics. Build the reserves and scout for attitude.
I’m looking forward to seeing Manchester United back in the top competition in 3-4 years. Maybe sooner.
Almost every ManUtd fan on this planet is going to have low expectations for results next season.
The competing clubs are going to have low expectations for ManUtd next season.
He is right to play down the expectations towards the media, fans and rivald. It’s time to bring an end to the endless disappointments. Now there is time for reflection on our values and rebuilding. Rebuilding the team and strengthening our foundations.
As fans we will be happy with 4th next season.
Ole will have higher expectations in the changing room.
He will want his players to believe, he will have taken off some of the pressure from the fans and the media in order to create focus and change work ethics. Build the reserves and scout for attitude.
I’m looking forward to seeing Manchester United back in the top competition in 3-4 years. Maybe sooner.
Yeh but Klopp had about two seasons of being able to bring in the players he wanted and cement his style. They also got to the final of the CL last season.
He was there, he supported it. But I reckon he didn't want to be making a song and dance about the current situation, why should he?
As manager he fulfilled his requirement to be there but made no bones about it, it's not a time for celebration at all.
Yep and we had a very large section of our fan base praise Jose for 2nd place. The points total of 81 was admirable no doubt, but in reality in many of the preceding seasons 81 pts would of only given us 2nd or 3rd anyway, bar the season where Leicester won it with 81pts.
How would you have reacted had we gone for the likes of Robertson, Winaldum and Gomez a few years back?
He's definitely not giving up, It's all about being realistic. Let's be honest here, City and Pool will probably spend this summer while United so far losing their players without bigger clarity about arrival of proper replacements.
Owners and the board need to support the living shit out of him, otherwise nobody in this football club will be be confident about anything, let alone achieving something substantial in the league.
Owners and the board need to support the living shit out of him, otherwise nobody in this football club will be be confident about anything, let alone achieving something substantial in the league.
Even top 4 is not a easy task next season to be honest. If that is the minimum expectation then the chance he can finish his contract is 50:50.
Haha...Come on man,they are just a point behind going into the final game of the season.They have successfully overturned a 24 point gap in 1 year....Ole should not have made that statement....True, but they are not going to win it
Ole isn’t Klopp....We don’t have a defined style of play....Our transfers are diabolical....So I agree,WE cannot overturn a 27 point gap.But it’s incorrect to say that no one can overturn such a big gap in 1 summer.Ole and Woodward are not good enough to do that,I agree with you on this....
This is a weak argument as it isnt black or white. Of course we should have gone with an experienced manager we just have to identify the right one, and even that might not work out the first time or two. Every manager is a "risk" and what we should do is try to minimize that risk as much as we can and that isnt giving the job to a rookie.
If Ole isnt working out maybe we should give it to me? I mean we havnt gone that route yet, we've tried an experienced manager and a rookie and it didnt work out. Maybe i might?
It really is that simple. Just try and get exciting, attacking football back. Get the players playing near their potential. Rest will follow.