Lacking a basic understanding of the definition of transgender, believing that being transgender is akin to dressing up, believing that fetishism is a subset, need I go on?
Has political correctness actually gone mad?
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
Crazy thing is this - for years [and still] the Gay community heavily discriminated against the trans community, calling it sick and perverted and not 'real' LGB etc etc. Almost using the exact language and imagery that Rudie is now using. Now the trans community is doing the same thing to others. Heavily belittling others with every word. Literally the kind of bile that causes suicides.
It's also people like this that cause the average Joe to start discriminating more too, simply due to the pure hypocrisy and craziness.
I feel so lucky that I'm a straight guy, but at university we had a trans guy who ended up killing himself due to similar abuse. Under and Post grad at Cambridge, smashing the honours, yet not accepted by his own community, parents, or anybody else. Having to take refuge in the History department in a different college because a group of trans people had decided he wasn't 'proper.' Then the ultimate humiliation at the funeral, the parents insisting the tombstone had the name Emily. I'm sure there are loads of similar stories around the world.
Gonna not get involved further either - people like this make my blood boil.
You need not go on, no. You're suggesting the poster is ignorant. That is not the same as bigoted.
No worries, things got heated and I haven't exactly acted civilised, and I apologise for that. We know what we disagree on, and there's no point in us going over it anymore.
And, for what it's worth, I'm aware of the issues facing the trans community, and I'm fully behind you there. I'm aware of the damage trap and sissy fetishism has done to the perception of transwomen, how laws meant to protect you have been abused by weirdos, resulting in backlash against trans rights. Natalie Wynn talked about (and I believe you touched upon it as well) how cis people, attempting to be accommodating and inclusive, start sharing pronouns when she is the only trans person present (because they don't understand that there's a difference between binary and non-binary transgender), making it feel like her identity isn't valid. I can only try to imagine how hard that must be.
You're entirely correct, of course. I'd say that I've been feeling under the weather and been in a shit mood, but that's just all the more reason not to go on the internet and act like a petty dick.
I'd love to have an intelligent conversation about non binary identities, as a transsexual (urgh that term is as old fashioned as transvestite, crossdresser etc) I feel an overwhelming sense to have an identity, I think there's a conflict then with non binary individuals who don't want to conform to any or many identities. The two simply aren't compatible or comparable and it's a growing source of discourse within the trans community. Telling a "transsexual" that their natural instinct is just a social construct is hugely damaging, could you imagine telling a gay person that they're only gay because society made them that way?
Even Mermaids admit that "gender" is just another word for "personality" in their tweet below, imagine 8 billion toilets! Or an 8 billion strong pride parade - wouldn't that defeat the object? How about if every crime ever was classed as a "hate crime" because everyone falls under the transgender umbrella? Again, doesn't that defeat the purpose of having a definition for a hate crime?
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— Twitter API (@user) date
I do think that transgender kids who need to find their sense of identity in order to seek medical intervention will suffer greatly from the confused definitions, waiting lists are already crazily stupid, when you're told there's an 8 billion long waiting list it becomes self defeating. As someone who has been through that process understanding my identity and getting medical intervention saved my life. Non binary is just as much, if not more, of a social construct as the binary genders. From a very young age Children will know the difference between boys and girls and some will feel an affinity with the opposite. They will not feel like a demi boy polymorphic lesbian.
Also, freedom of self expression has always been there, look at the 80s, this was then eradicated by the lad mag 90s. But it was there and people didn't have a need to label it. In fact, where do goths fit in with all of this? A culture that fits so perfectly into the non binary spectrum yet don't feel the need to use specific pronouns yet are just as valid.
In fact, suicide rates amongst men are the highest of any gender, maybe redefining what it means to be male and cutting out the macho bullshit may start to address this - Why not just stretch the binaries of what it means to be male/female rather than inventing new genders. There's nothing wrong with men wearing makeup, there's nothing wrong with tom boys and girls, new terms will replace the old colloquial ones which had negative connotations and I believe that's what has happened with transgender, a word everyone is fighting for.
Truly am interested in hearing your side without transplaining, I think we're beyond that as a discussion now.
Hope you're feeling less under the weather soon too.
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Jesus Christ, that’s awful. What a waste.
What are you trying to imply here? You don't know me or what I stand for. It seems like a clique caused misery for your friend, not because they were "real trans" (and I think you mean transsexuals here) but because they were cnuts.
Trans youngsters deserve better in life, I fight for that and am quite the advocate and have influenced positive changes in perception. Your open assessment that you believe the fetish community is a subset of transgender is laughable and ignorant, perhaps that had a part to play in your friend feeling the way he did? (see we can both go there) and the exact mindset and perception I'm against - being transsexual is not a social construct, it's as natural as being gay, gender is a social construct and challenging gender stereotypes is fine but neither are anything like one and other yet the problem lies because they all fall under the transgender (a word with less stigma attached than say transsexual or transvestite) umbrella.
My assessment is that transgender youngsters need to find their identities, such as your friend, in order to seek medical intervention. They won't find that in a sea of non conforming identities and it could prove harmful for them.
Oh, and most trans people won't find validation from other trans people, they'll find it from society being accepting and they themselves being able to live in their identified gender. For your friend this would have been having a strong male influenced group of friends, perhaps he felt shunned not having this?
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Really? What a shame...
Still love this thread, @Pogue Mahone got aware of this quite early and thanks to it so did I at the time. Now it's mainstream everywhere.
I bumped this because of the Bernardo Silva discussion. It's two sides of the same coin. This "PR gone mad" was borne out of people joining established "causes" but without the wits to understand the small nuances, and hence having disproportionate stances, which lead to perverse results.
Then, predictably, we get it from the other side. People who don't understand what "PR gone mad" is, are using it to justify every wrong stance, because although they failed to grasp the thing, thought it was borne out of people with the same ideas as themselves.
I see no solution to this, it's a new and modern division between people.
I bumped this because of the Bernardo Silva discussion. It's two sides of the same coin. This "PR gone mad" was borne out of people joining established "causes" but without the wits to understand the small nuances, and hence having disproportionate stances, which lead to perverse results.
Then, predictably, we get it from the other side. People who don't understand what "PR gone mad" is, are using it to justify every wrong stance, because although they failed to grasp the thing, thought it was borne out of people with the same ideas as themselves.
I see no solution to this, it's a new and modern division between people.
Cheers. Glad the fecking endless hours I spend on here aren’t completely wasted!
By the way, the latest Bill Burr special on Netflix deals with a lot of the stuff in this thread absolutely brilliantly (IMO). A lot less self righteous than someone like Ricky Gervais and so much funnier as a result. Plus he’s just a much funnier (and nicer) person.
Here’s a review.
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PR gone mad
PCPR gone mad
I was a revisor (what's the name of the dude that reviews sheets before printing???) in a newspaper in the past. I ate reporters like you for breakfast. Shoo
I'm also an editor!PC
I was a revisor (what's the name of the dude that reviews sheets before printing???) in a newspaper in the past. I ate reporters like you for breakfast. Shoo
I thought you mostly just got drunk with contacts to extract rumours?
Yep back in the day. Sadly over the last year my internal organs have told me in no uncertain terms that I can't do that anymore.
It's a young person's game. I'm out to pasture now.
I wasn't an editor, I just spell-checked (and fact-checked out of my own volition, despite not being hired for that). Most printed publications in Portugal have a person specifically hired for that. I was unsure of the name of the job in English.
Sounds like a sub-editor tbh.
Dutch government is looking to ban gender specific toys. While I understand the reasoning behind gender neutral toys, surely we can also still keep the option to buy our little boy stuff that's associated with boys (I wanted to type boy toys, but that's weird) if I promise not to send him to bed without supper if he asks for a barbie doll.
We should force our children in to gender stereotypes, but if your daughter actually likes playing with a little toy iron and cooking furnace that's okay too. Stay at home moms are almost frowned upon in modern society and that's fecking rubbish. My wife would never ever EVER want to be a stay at home mom, but the wife of one of my friends is, and she loves it. Stop forcing this stuff.
We should force our children in to gender stereotypes, but if your daughter actually likes playing with a little toy iron and cooking furnace that's okay too. Stay at home moms are almost frowned upon in modern society and that's fecking rubbish. My wife would never ever EVER want to be a stay at home mom, but the wife of one of my friends is, and she loves it. Stop forcing this stuff.
I guess it depends what a gender specific toy means. If it means banning that, "for boys 5 and over" type wording from the packaging of board games etc, then yes, I'm in favour.
If it means banning toys/fancy dress etc traditionally associated with a gender - then no. Personally I preferred a meccano set and a football, to an iron and a doll's house - and that didn't rattle my parents - that doesn't mean I would want to see tiaras and toy cookers banned though. Anyone who can pull off wearing a tiara is welcome to do so.
If it means banning toys/fancy dress etc traditionally associated with a gender - then no. Personally I preferred a meccano set and a football, to an iron and a doll's house - and that didn't rattle my parents - that doesn't mean I would want to see tiaras and toy cookers banned though. Anyone who can pull off wearing a tiara is welcome to do so.
Cool, a sensible post. So called gender specific toys shouldn't be banned, they should just stop being seen as gender specific, it's simple really. My daughter played with my sons toys all the time when she was younger.
Yeah, putting " for boys" on things is a bit obsolete I agree, but this is going a bit further than that as I read it. @Volumiza has the right of it. Don't ban stuff, just make it acceptable to everyone.
It's the same with banning seperate sections for boy and girl clothes. It's inconvenient as feck for parents and who cares that girl and boys dress a bit differently. They don't have to of course, I'm fine with them putting up extremely specific signs in stores, I just don't want to have to sift through 200 square meters of store to find him a Thomas the fecking Tank Engine cap.
You live in Netherlands. Maybe they meant the other sort of toys!
Those things have been gender neutral since ancient Greece.
You know the hand gesture for "OK" we've all been using forever?
This one..
Yeah? Well stop it, its racist now...
https://www.adl.org/education/references/hate-symbols/okay-hand-gesture
This one..
Yeah? Well stop it, its racist now...
https://www.adl.org/education/references/hate-symbols/okay-hand-gesture
Just need to get the neckbeard incels on 4chan or 8chan or whatever to start waving like the queen.
Sometimes I look at the current climate of everyone's views and opinions and I feel i wouldnt be able to raise my child the way I want to raise it
If it's a boy and I want it to play with toys which would have, in the past, been affiliated with boys then is that wrong? If I want my daughter to remain as a girl then why is that wrong?
If it's a boy and I want it to play with toys which would have, in the past, been affiliated with boys then is that wrong? If I want my daughter to remain as a girl then why is that wrong?
Just let your kids pick their own toys ?
Why?
Edit - don't get me wrong. I'd let it choose its own toy, but why must I do that?
I did child care work for about 2 years and we were told its better for the kids to chose their own toys and also how they play with the toys. Its a more effective way for the child to learn, explore, develop and to be expressive.
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Cause insisting they like things they dont is an odd thing to do? They'll like what they like regardless, you're only altering how they feel about liking it.
I don’t think anyone’s saying you have to.
It’s just better for the child isn’t it, surely? Why wouldn’t you let it develop whatever interests it wants to?
It's been (sometimes) racist for years at this point hasn't it? Certainly seems like ages ago that those 4chan shitehawks first adopted it as part of their schtick.You know the hand gesture for "OK" we've all been using forever?
This one..
Yeah? Well stop it, its racist now...
https://www.adl.org/education/references/hate-symbols/okay-hand-gesture
I thought it was a Trump thing tbh. I thought it was a bit of a chicken and egg thing where I'm not sure if its racist because Trump uses it or Trump uses it because its racist
Boris Johnson's been doing it in speeches recently.
The okay sign is bad if you’re using it to display as a symbol of identity.
It’s okay if you’re just simply using it to indicate an “okay” or “got it” response.
It’s okay if you’re just simply using it to indicate an “okay” or “got it” response.
So you can't even ask people how their identity is doing and expect to get a clear response these days. Mad.
Toys are the worst kind of heteronormative capitalist indoctrination. Let kids be kids. Have them use their imaginations, climb a tree, sail down river on a raft with a runaway slave. The stick and hoop can only travel the road to decadence.
Hold it there something seems out of place. You really shouldn’t let kids climb trees these days. It’s dangerous and they can poke and eye out.