vidic blood & sand
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Oh definitely worse things have been said, but that's part of what inclusive language is supposed to avoid.You probably wouldn’t tbf but it was just a speculative example. I’m sure worse things have been said than that though by teachers.
Phrasing?No I don’t. In fact in the vast majority of instances, just a tiny bit more research not viewed through the prism of tabloid headlines show that theyre frequently merely guidelines or other such low level inconsequentialities, often suggested for quite reasonable reasons... and as @Wolverine already pointed out, only serve to be reported like this to deliberately to rile people up into outrage... For example, you have managed to get suitably annoyed by it, that when a plausible reason is offered to you, you’ve had to default to the argument that “why should kids with dead parents be treated with compassion, it’s a tough world!” and decided it could have dire ramifications for society, like we live in fecking Sparta or something!... come on man.
I could just as easy argue that since we live in a cruel world (something Id wager a child whose lost a parent would probably already be well aware of - regardless of what proper nouns a teacher decided to use) why not try and encourage a happy and welcoming environment for, you know, fecking children in a school!?
The exact same arguments were used about getting rid of caning FFS, and this is just “maybe use some more inclusive words if you can?”.
What D’you think is going to happen if a teacher does use mum or dad? (Which obviously, they still will)... they’re not going to be thrown in jail, are they? What’s the actual issue here?
It strikes me as getting annoyed at change, however incremental, for the sheer sake of it, which is a very Conservative tendency. Which is why most of these things inevitably boil down to “look at this small well meaning thing the progressives are trying to do now!! We didn’t do that!! And we all turned out brilliantly didn’t we? I mean, just look at how normal and thriving the UK is!!? Now hold my pint whilst I get angry at an article I haven’t read.”
What is ‘cultural banter?’ I’m curious.Off topicish...we've got Greater Manchester mayor elections in May. Three of the six candidates are right wing - they want to take back control, one wants to allow cultural banter, the other wants to make England great again and another wants to reform the UK by giving folk their freedoms back. And then you've got a flipping Tory candidate. I mean what's wrong with this place? Majority of the country has become so right wing, (this forum wasn't as right leaning years back and all). Thanks to the media, the sentiment has changed but I suspect it was always there anyway. But yeah political correctness gone mental.
Racial slurs, probably.What is ‘cultural banter?’ I’m curious.
Oh, no doubt.Racial slurs, probably.
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Is cultural banter illegal whatever that means?Off topicish...we've got Greater Manchester mayor elections in May. Three of the six candidates are right wing - they want to take back control, one wants to allow cultural banter, the other wants to make England great again and another wants to reform the UK by giving folk their freedoms back. And then you've got a flipping Tory candidate. I mean what's wrong with this place? Majority of the country has become so right wing, (this forum wasn't as right leaning years back and all). Thanks to the media, the sentiment has changed but I suspect it was always there anyway. But yeah political correctness gone mental.
Is cultural banter illegal whatever that means?
And imagine, if no one had used the word 'dad' during those couple of weeks you would have been dead because of oversensitivity by now. You should send someone a thank you letter.Sparing kids feelings omitting words which have been used for centuries is going a long way to making them too sensitive to survive in the harsh world we live in. We arent doing them any favours. So far it's more or less controlled but carry on in the vein we're going and in 10 years we'll be churning out kids not fit for purpose.
My Dad died when I was 11. Admittedly the first couple of weeks after his death when I heard the word Dad I welled up but then human nature takes over which strengthens resolve and you learn to deal with things on a different level. Kids are stronger than we think. Swerving issues is a lot more detrimental to growth than actually dealing with them.
I know you're joking, but it potentially is. Harassment laws are shocking and in need of change/clarification, as it essentially comes down to causing someone offence, but offence is so subjective. I don't think it's enforced much though, but the potential is there. A service user at my old workplace (a vulnerable adult) got charged and prosecuted for texting his ex on three separate occassions after they broke up that he missed her/still loved her/that she was beautiful etc, because the cnut went crying to the police saying she was distressed by it.Is cultural banter illegal whatever that means?
How do you know the facts of the story are right? What if she had asked him to stop texting (or calling) her? How do you know it was only three times? How do you know he had only said that he missed her? Do you know why they broke up in the first place? To be honest, even if it's just what you said it was, it could very well be harassment.I know you're joking, but it potentially is. Harassment laws are shocking and in need of change/clarification, as it essentially comes down to causing someone offence, but offence is so subjective. I don't think it's enforced much though, but the potential is there. A service user at my old workplace (a vulnerable adult) got charged and prosecuted for texting his ex on three separate occassions after they broke up that he missed her/still loved her/that she was beautiful etc, because the cnut went crying to the police saying she was distressed by it.
Because I was involved in supporting him through the process. I saw the messages, liaised with his solicitors etc, and attended court. She was a cnut. Fully functioning adult who dated a guy with learning disabilities, manipulated him, milked him for money and a place to live. He couldn't understand that he had been used.How do you know the facts of the story are right? What if she had asked him to stop texting (or calling) her? How do you know it was only three times? How do you know he had only said that he missed her? Do you know why they broke up in the first place? To be honest, even if it's just what you said it was, it could very well be harassment.
You calling her a cnut who "went crying to the police" makes it abundantly clear how you approached this.
Reminds me of The Wire. Police loved to show good statistics in the show.Because I was involved in supporting him through the process. I saw the messages, liaised with his solicitors etc, and attended court. She was a cnut. Fully functioning adult who dated a guy with learning disabilities, manipulated him, milked him for money and a place to live. He couldn't understand that he had been used.
The magistrate pretty much said as much, and criticised the CPS, but said his hands were tied as the letter of the law said X (two or more unwanted contacts = harassment).
This was just after their was some new legislation about domestic violence, which also meant she didn't even need to press charges or attend as a witness. She literally sent one email to the police and then said she didn't want to press charges, but the police ran with it. Basically, the police had this new power and wanted to use it first chance they got. I have no doubt in my mind they were motivated/encouraged by policies/brieifings/campaigns to "protect women", and convinced themselves they were being heroes.
Which kind of exemplifies why I'm against increased state power. Its not a left vs right thing. Everyone knows the stereotypes about police officers, they are grunts, the modern day front line mercenaries sent into battle, they have egos, they like enforcing the little bit of power the have. Giving them more power, just because it's under the guise of clamping down on something you don't like, just isn't a good idea. It also distracts from other police work they should be doing. Mix that in with the capitalist-efficiency based obsession with targets that has crept into the public sector and you have a deadly mix. My friend is a criminal solicitor and says close to 50% of interviews she attends are harassment related. Yet police officers often don't even attend burglaries anymore. It's a quick and easy crime for them to up their statistics and hit their targets.
Is this the phenomen of non-crime hate incidents in the UK? Like where people get visits from the Police for saying writing something offensive over social media and it goes on your record despite not breaking any laws.I know you're joking, but it potentially is. Harassment laws are shocking and in need of change/clarification, as it essentially comes down to causing someone offence, but offence is so subjective. I don't think it's enforced much though, but the potential is there. A service user at my old workplace (a vulnerable adult) got charged and prosecuted for texting his ex on three separate occassions after they broke up that he missed her/still loved her/that she was beautiful etc, because the cnut went crying to the police saying she was distressed by it.
Sadly it may be a genuine topic but the vast majority of people who mention it are either just actual racists, or are so dumb their idea of top quality banter is puerile garbage. As stupid as they may be however, I don't want any police officer, magistrate, judge or other state official determining what is offensive, or what is banter. Education and encouragement of acceptable/preferred behaviour is more beneficial than outlawing/punishing those who step out of line IMO.
I'm less decided when it comes to companies/schools enforcing what is acceptable. Again I'd think encouraging correct behaviour, establishing a culture that is desired is beneficial. I'd like to think most workplaces let people off for one-off indiscretions with some words of advice and a warning. In my experience the only people who get fired or properly disciplined for a balls-up are the ones who constantly overstep the line or who are a general liability, so it's a good excuse to get rid of them. So any Daily Mail articles in the future about "Teacher fired for Wrongspeak!", my first thought will be that they're probably a shit teacher anyway.
YesHas political correctness actually gone mad?
It breaks the law. Or at least, the police will encourage you to accept a caution usinIs this the phenomen of non-crime hate incidents in the UK? Like where people get visits from the Police for saying writing something offensive over social media and it goes on your record despite not breaking any laws.
Exactly. I saw a document/publication from the force that pressed charges in this case a couple years later, in which they boasted about how they had increased their number of prosecutions for "domestic incidents" in the past few years. Boiled my blood knowing at least one of those was the case I mentioned.Reminds me of The Wire. Police loved to show good statistics in the show.
If it breaks the law it's not the non-crime hate incidents i'm talking about where there have apparently been 120000 in the last five years in the Uk.It breaks the law. Or at least, the police will encourage you to accept a caution usin
Exactly. I saw a document/publication from the force that pressed charges in this case a couple years later, in which they boasted about how they had increased their number of prosecutions for "domestic incidents" in the past few years. Boiled my blood knowing at least one of those was the case I mentioned.
It's such a shame because the law was implemented with good intentions - to protect women in abusive relationships who are too scared to press charges. But it got abused by some coppers to get an easy result.
Jeez. Yeah I thought I had deleted my reply to you as I was gonna go into more detail and look some stuff up before replying but I left the post in unfortunately.If it breaks the law it's not the non-crime hate incidents i'm talking about where there have apparently been 120000 in the last five years in the Uk.
Well apparently, it's not a crime, but it still goes on your register, so your employee's can see that you have been investigated for a non-crime hate incident so it has potential repercussions for your career.Jeez. Yeah I thought I had deleted my reply to you as I was gonna go into more detail and look some stuff up before replying but I left the post in unfortunately.
I'm really intrigued about this. Is this figure incidents that the police investigate but doesn't end up with a charge/caution? Or is it entirely separate?
I did it, because the clip was worse than I remembered it to be. Before you made the response. I think Douglas has his merits on some issues and con's on others.You've deleted the nutter, mein fuhrer.
Interesting, will watch later. I assume its classified as a warning/reprimand then. I have to get enhanced DBS checks and there's a section for convictions and a section for cautions/warnings/reprimands. I know a caution is an admission of guilt and the person has to sign it to accept, so would be a crime. A warning needn't be an admission of guilt though, so it's on your record even if you deny the allegations.Well apparently, it's not a crime, but it still goes on your register, so your employee's can see that you have been investigated for a non-crime hate incident so it has potential repercussions for your career.
I'm sharing this for Andrew doyle commentary(who's good on free speech), not Rubin who's an idiot.
I reckon you owe the man an apology for all the assumption in this post.How do you know the facts of the story are right? What if she had asked him to stop texting (or calling) her? How do you know it was only three times? How do you know he had only said that he missed her? Do you know why they broke up in the first place? To be honest, even if it's just what you said it was, it could very well be harassment.
You calling her a cnut who "went crying to the police" makes it abundantly clear how you approached this.
You're having a laugh.I reckon you owe the man an apology for all the assumption in this post.
I did it, because the clip was worse than I remembered it to be.
He told a story that he had in-depth knowledge of, you essentially questioned everything he said, and seemed to posit that he had no real knowledge of the details, and had just decided that she was a cnut because he is a chauvinist or something(not sure what your last sentence was really trying to say). You seem to be able to dish it out to everyone in the CE forum(not that you're wrong on most occasions), but you happily just let his response to you fade into the ether, as it disproved literally everything you had said, atop your high horse.You're having a laugh.
It didn't disprove anything, it seemingly answered my questions. You call them assumptions, but the only assumption I made was the last one. How am I supposed to know he's "holding back"? The only way this forum works is if you assume people are telling you the information you need to make a decision. If not, you ask questions - which is what I did.He told a story that he had in-depth knowledge of, you essentially questioned everything he said, and seemed to posit that he had no real knowledge of the details, and had just decided that she was a cnut because he is a chauvinist or something(not sure what your last sentence was really trying to say). You seem to be able to dish it out to everyone in the CE forum(not that you're wrong on most occasions), but you happily just let his response to you fade into the ether, as it disproved literally everything you had said, atop your high horse.
I think when someone states “the cnut went crying to the police” over a woman claiming harassment, it’s worth querying the person who said it. If someone said to me that “cnut of a woman got a restraining order against my friend” I’m going to ask what makes the woman a cnut.He told a story that he had in-depth knowledge of, you essentially questioned everything he said, and seemed to posit that he had no real knowledge of the details, and had just decided that she was a cnut because he is a chauvinist or something(not sure what your last sentence was really trying to say). You seem to be able to dish it out to everyone in the CE forum(not that you're wrong on most occasions), but you happily just let his response to you fade into the ether, as it disproved literally everything you had said, atop your high horse.
What makes you think he wasn't simply asking questions to verify how "honest" the post was?I reckon you owe the man an apology for all the assumption in this post.
You can't know, but you basically labelled him something, and when he then explained the situation fully, surely it warrants some form of retraction?It didn't disprove anything, it seemingly answered my questions. You call them assumptions, but the only assumption I made was the last one. How am I supposed to know he's "holding back"? The only way this forum works is if you assume people are telling you the information you need to make a decision. If not, you ask questions - which is what I did.
You can ask what makes the woman a cnut without insinuating that the poster is victim shaming/a chauvinist, no? Or at least apologise when you are given more detail(sounds to me like the label cnut is fully warranted, given the details).I think when someone states “the cnut went crying to the police” over a woman claiming harassment, it’s worth querying the person who said it. If someone said to me that “cnut of a woman got a restraining order against my friend” I’m going to ask what makes the woman a cnut.
The last sentence.What makes you think he wasn't simply asking questions to verify how "honest" the post was?
You're free to feel how you want to about it, but I don't think I said anything wrong. The way he phrased that informed my response.You can't know, but you basically labelled him something, and when he then explained the situation fully, surely it warrants some form of retraction?
Agree.. minimum warrants an acknowledgement of being wrongYou can't know, but you basically labelled him something, and when he then explained the situation fully, surely it warrants some form of retraction?
I thought it was pretty apparent that she was a cnut for reporting her ex, who happened to be a vulnerable person, to the police for texting her that he missed her/wanted her back. Three times. Three!! She was a cnut for additional reasons but that wasnt really the original point. The point was that criminalising the act of upsetting someone is an extremely dangerous road to tread down. She could have been a lovely person, it'd still have been ridiculous for the police to have intervened in any way other than to have a few words. But that's not how the police operate if they have the power to do more. They're jumped up traffic wardens on steroids.I think when someone states “the cnut went crying to the police” over a woman claiming harassment, it’s worth querying the person who said it. If someone said to me that “cnut of a woman got a restraining order against my friend” I’m going to ask what makes the woman a cnut.
She told the guy to stop contacting her. He continued to do so. She informed the police, but didn’t want to press charges. Coupled with the last paragraph about the police having too much power when it comes to harassment (which is a very peculiar take, especially when one looks at the statistics )and that they should have less power to deal with people being harassed (often woman).You can ask what makes the woman a cnut without insinuating that the poster is victim shaming/a chauvinist, no? Or at least apologise when you are given more detail(sounds to me like the label cnut is fully warranted, given the details).
You yourself said she decided to not press charges didn’t you?I thought it was pretty apparent that she was a cnut for reporting her ex, who happened to be a vulnerable person, to the police for texting her that he missed her/wanted her back. Three times. Three!! She was a cnut for additional reasons but that wasnt really the original point. The point was that criminalising the act of upsetting someone is an extremely dangerous road to tread down. She could have been a lovely person, it'd still have been ridiculous for the police to have intervened in any way other than to have a few words. But that's not how the police operate if they have the power to do more. They're jumped up traffic wardens on steroids.
I would point out there's a weird sort of hypocrisy in the extreme left/woke - on one hand they want the police to be defunded, reformed or abolished, want them to be under scrutiny for their actions of excessive force, but at the same time want to give them MORE powers to criminalise people for upsetting someone else. The average police officer is a total cretin and can not weigh up nuanced personal situations, giving them the power to intervene in a heavy handed manner just won't end well. Its also a massive waste of time and resources. It seems like a massive blind spot for a lot of people, cos as long as the grunts in blue are tackling behaviour they don't like then it's all good.
You'd think it'd be a point that the wokey idealists and the libertarian idealists would have common ground on. feck the police.
So judging on that post the woman manipulated and used the guy, but the guy couldn't leave it alone though.How on earth is is the woman the cnut is that situation?
Pretty sure an ex not leaving you alone is enough for a woman to feel worried. What's she supposed to do, wait and see if things escalate into an even worse/possibly dangerous situation before doing anything about it and just hope nothing happens in the meantime?