Has the cult of Rashford become more important than the player?

Nikelesh Reddy

Full Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2017
Messages
1,769
Last night I watched Marcus Rashfords chat with President Obama and as I watched that interview,i couldn’t help but wonder whether Marcus Rashford the personality is actually more important than Marcus Rashford the player.Please don’t get me wrong,I”m not having a pop at him just because of his shocking performance in the final.Having watched him week in,week out over these last couple of years I feel that he’s almost reached his peak as a footballer.

I honestly can’t see him getting significantly better than this,and i honestly can’t see him reaching the level of someone like a Wayne Rooney.Marcus isn’t even in the same league as Rooney....As a supporter I felt excited to watch a young Wayne Rooney play...I feel the same excitement whenever I watch Greenwood,but Marcus isn’t someone who gives you that feeling.

Ofcourse he’s capable of scoring some stunning goals and he does perform well for a reasonable period of time...But I can never see him becoming the best player at Man United.What do you guys think of Marcus as a footballer?Is he an indispensable part of this United team(Like Rooney was at that age)?Or is he just a cult personality who’s a bit over rated as a player?Whats your view...
 

Eli Zee

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
604
Think his peak isn't as high as some people think... there's a good player in there, but it takes something truly special to be a great like Rooney, Ronaldo, etc.
 

smi11ie

Not a philogynist
Newbie
Joined
May 4, 2017
Messages
217
Location
Buri Ram
Supports
Rangers
I would like to see him play less of a starters role and be used as a sub more often. He has been giving the ball away way too much recently.
 

The Siege

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
125
He has an incredible ceiling of ability, but his decision-making is really struggling to reach the same level. Decision-making turns incredible talent into incredible output, and he's at that age where that transformation is more and more expected of him. I don't think him being a top notch human being trying to change the injustices of our world will influence any footballing decisions that the club make regarding him.

Also we ask him to play a ridiculous amount of football enduring a lot during the season, so that too affects everything that's expected of him.
 

Sky1981

Fending off the urge
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
26,399
Location
Under the bright neon lights of sincity
To be fair, he's always rated more beyond his abilities

Local Product
Fairy tale rags to riches
Actually good
Cool name "RASHFORD"
Politically savvy with his comment
Do the right things (Kid's meal)

So yeah, he'll always get some preferred treatment, which I'm personally fine with. This is the sort of romantism we indulge ourselves in.

As long as the actual gap between the "overrated" and "actual abilities" aren't too wide apart.

Beyond all that he is still a very good player, probably not in the "special" bracket.

Best to enjoy his performance, and just treat him accordingly. SAF didn't give privilege for Ronaldo until much later, he kept him grounded until he's ready and mature and only then he give him more leeway. But then again he's the master at it.
 

shahzy

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
679
Tbh I haven't rated him in years. I just don't see it. He's fast and randomly scores after playing awful for the rest of the game which is enough for most people on here it seems. His overall play is poor and infact it's gotten worse over the last few years. The excuse for that is he's apparently playing through injury. If there is an injury I hope he gets a rest but my hunch is there is no injury and it's just an excuse.

We need better players than him to win the PL and the CL if that's the ambition of the club. However there are more important areas needed to be improved upon such as DM and RW which are in more need than LW
 

Sky1981

Fending off the urge
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
26,399
Location
Under the bright neon lights of sincity
He has an incredible ceiling of ability, but his decision-making is really struggling to reach the same level. Decision-making turns incredible talent into incredible output, and he's at that age where that transformation is more and more expected of him. I don't think him being a top notch human being trying to change the injustices of our world will influence any footballing decisions that the club make regarding him.

Also we ask him to play a ridiculous amount of football enduring a lot during the season, so that too affects everything that's expected of him.
I don't like this term.

We always thought the ceiling is much higher, we did with "martial, Ravel morisson, etc" there's no such thing as "Higher ceiling". It's not something you can see beyond biased preference.

Martial was dubbed as a Henry potential, look at his potential they say, what he can do at 20 doesn't mean it'll go exponentially better till 24. Some player regress.

The only player I've seen actually making that linear improvement is Cristiano Ronaldo. What he is when he's 20 and 24 is literally a different beast.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
28,273
Can't see him reaching Rooney's level? We are talking about arguably the best English player in last 20 years or one of the best, ManUtd top scorer and England's too and that without playing as out and out striker. Incredible player with insane work rate, like attacking mid but with scoring rate of strikers.

Forget Rashford, none of the players in the squad can reach Rooney's level maybe except Greenwood.

Problem with fans is, the people who say they don't rate Rashford are the ones who compare him with Rooney and Ronaldo. Ofcourse everyone is average when compared to them.
 

MDFC Manager

Full Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Messages
18,352
Can't see him reaching Rooney's level? We are talking about arguably the best English player in last 20 years or one of the best, ManUtd top scorer and England's too and that without playing as out and out striker. Incredible player with insane work rate, like attacking mid but with scoring rate of strikers.

Forget Rashford, none of the players in the squad can reach Rooney's level maybe except Greenwood.

Problem with fans is, the people who say they don't rate Rashford are the ones who compare him with Rooney and Ronaldo. Ofcourse everyone is average when compared to them.
I think what the OP is actually suggesting is that Rashford gets the importance of a Rooney or Ronaldo without actually being close to that level, and the OP likely ascertains the reason behind that to his off field work and image.
 

stw2022

Full Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2021
Messages
645
I think he’s a decent player but the idea he’s going to being become a lynchpin of a team genuinely challenging for major honours looks increasingly delusional.
 
Last edited:

stw2022

Full Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2021
Messages
645
Can't see him reaching Rooney's level? We are talking about arguably the best English player in last 20 years or one of the best, ManUtd top scorer and England's too and that without playing as out and out striker. Incredible player with insane work rate, like attacking mid but with scoring rate of strikers.

Forget Rashford, none of the players in the squad can reach Rooney's level maybe except Greenwood.

Problem with fans is, the people who say they don't rate Rashford are the ones who compare him with Rooney and Ronaldo. Ofcourse everyone is average when compared to them.
Of course but he looks average compared to his peers too, that’s the problems evidencing his development has flatlined. There’s nothing wrong with that and it doesn’t mean he can’t have a fruitful and successful career but he’s really not going to become the player we all held our breath and hoped he would two or three years ago.

24 year olds with his level of experience and game time that has the flaws to his game he still has are unlikely to become world beaters. He’s only five months younger than Beckham and has in terms of game time almost a seasons more experience than Becks had in 1999.

Okay if you think comparisons as a player is unfair but even in terms of the low base of looking competent on the ball more than once in a blue moon the gulf isn’t easily ignored any more and that applies to his peers today of the same age or younger.
 

nokillingmoths

Full Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2013
Messages
5,968
Two 20 goal seasons back to back playing with or returning from injuries, with 15 assists last season as well. From left wing.

Imagine what he would be like if he could stay fit?

There is no shame in not being ronaldo or Rooney and I am not sure anyone expects him to be, but he's not the issue in our team.

We need some depth so he doesn't have to play through injuries.
 

SATA

Full Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2005
Messages
12,955
Location
We all love United
Most players don't peak at 23. He'll be a much much better player when he reaches 26 in terms of pitch awareness, maturity and even finishing. Many outside of United and England absolutely rate him
 

LisburnWhite

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 26, 2015
Messages
368
Location
Lisburn, N.Ireland
Rashford is a good player but definitely not a world beater and probably will never reach that status. Yes he has had a season which he will improve on as he was overplayed and was carrying some sort of injury but there are limits to where his ability can take him.
The main point is that no one can can do a lot of things well and think he is valiantly trying to split himself between the humanitarian side and the football day to day job and neither get the 100% Rashford.
Personally I think the world could do with a lot more people like him but as a United follower watching a match it appears his focus is no always what it could be.
There is usually a player out there that could do better than the one you have but it's far to soon to give up on him. Better management (looking at you Ole) a good rest, recovery from injury and just maturity in his game will bring him up a level or two but he sure ain't gonna be another Ronaldo like others have said.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
28,273
Of course but he looks average compared to his peers too, that’s the problems evidencing his development has flatlined. There’s nothing wrong with that and it doesn’t mean he can’t have a fruitful and successful career but he’s really not going to become the player we all held our breath and hoped he would two or three years ago.

24 year olds with his level of experience and game time that has the flaws to his game he still has are unlikely to become world beaters. He’s only five months younger than Beckham and has in terms of game time almost a seasons more experience than Becks had in 1999.

Okay if you think comparisons as a player is unfair but even in terms of the low base of looking competent on the ball more than once in a blue moon the gulf isn’t easily ignored any more and that applies to his peers today of the same age or younger.
Which peers are you talking about?

Now randomly Beckham is brought in. Did you rate Rashford as better player than Scholes, Beckham, Lewandowski and many other great players just because he played at higher level when he was 18?

Did anyone say Rashford is one of the greatest player? It's like people love to argue imaginary points just to have a go at player.

Few of the ManUtd fans wank themselves to death when players like Son are discussed, when you read Spurs fan opinion on him, its same like any other attacking wingers. Inconsistent and decision making problem.

Few see him as good player who has very good end product and can get better, they are ok with Rashford.

Then there are few who comes and moan about "Is he better than Ronaldo, Rooney? No way. Is he better than Beckham at same age? No. Can he be the lynchpin in the team that will dominate PL and CL? No way" and all that nonsense, they just moan about him no matter what.

Also it's hilarious people come up with "Can he be the lynchpin in the team that will win CL? No" as everyone and their dogs rated players like Mendy, Rudiger, Kovacic, Jorginho, Werner, Mount as players who will be winning CLs just a year ago when they looked so poor under Lampard, well everyone except Mendy and Mount. It's as if winning PL and CL depends on one player.
 

Red Stone

Full Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Messages
7,992
Location
NZ
To be fair, he's always rated more beyond his abilities

Local Product
Fairy tale rags to riches
Actually good
Cool name "RASHFORD"
Politically savvy with his comment
Do the right things (Kid's meal)

So yeah, he'll always get some preferred treatment, which I'm personally fine with. This is the sort of romantism we indulge ourselves in.

As long as the actual gap between the "overrated" and "actual abilities" aren't too wide apart.

Beyond all that he is still a very good player, probably not in the "special" bracket.

Best to enjoy his performance, and just treat him accordingly. SAF didn't give privilege for Ronaldo until much later, he kept him grounded until he's ready and mature and only then he give him more leeway. But then again he's the master at it.
I'm not good at Photoshop, but this post reminded me of this:

 

Andersons Dietician

Full Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2016
Messages
11,280
I don’t think it will have. I imagine most of the good stuff he has done is probably limited to a Uk audience and worldwide he is probably seen more or recognised for his footballing ability. The things he’s done are clearly very important socially and to the country but I don’t know if that’s what would define him more than his footballing ability currently.
Maybe some view his contributions on the pitch through a more rose tinted aspected but I’ve always contested that I think he has everything there to be a really really good player, it will just take a mentality shift from him. He could wake up one day next season and just think I should really do things differently and hopefully he does as if he does I think he’ll go to a completely different level than what we have seen.

Was interesting watching Peps interview with RKO last week. Talking about Foden Pep says you g players go up, then they go down then back up. Basically saying that it’s inevitable young players go through a slump until they develop mentally. Rio mentions John Stones as an example. Hopefully Rashford is just in his slump and will come out the other side of it a better player.
 

stw2022

Full Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2021
Messages
645
Most players don't peak at 23. He'll be a much much better player when he reaches 26 in terms of pitch awareness, maturity and even finishing. Many outside of United and England absolutely rate him
Development comes with games. He’s closing in on 300 games for club and country and we’re talking about hoping be develops better “pitch awareness”. That tells you all you need to know

If you’re 24 (or close to) have that many games under your belt and you’re still being spoke about in those terms then by itself that’s problematic
 

stw2022

Full Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2021
Messages
645
I don’t think it will have. I imagine most of the good stuff he has done is probably limited to a Uk audience and worldwide he is probably seen more or recognised for his footballing ability. The things he’s done are clearly very important socially and to the country but I don’t know if that’s what would define him more than his footballing ability currently.
Maybe some view his contributions on the pitch through a more rose tinted aspected but I’ve always contested that I think he has everything there to be a really really good player, it will just take a mentality shift from him. He could wake up one day next season and just think I should really do things differently and hopefully he does as if he does I think he’ll go to a completely different level than what we have seen.

Was interesting watching Peps interview with RKO last week. Talking about Foden Pep says you g players go up, then they go down then back up. Basically saying that it’s inevitable young players go through a slump until they develop mentally. Rio mentions John Stones as an example. Hopefully Rashford is just in his slump and will come out the other side of it a better player.
Players go through a slump but they don’t reach 300 games and rarely look competent on the ball.

There should be a base level of performance and consistency that Rashford simply does not have.

A switch might randomly go on, he’ll wake up look in the mirror and notice because he’s 26 he’ll suddenly become a completely different footballer. Maybe that will happen but it needs to start being okay to express the sentiment that it’s looking increasingly unlikely to
 

Kostov

Full Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2017
Messages
6,657
Location
Skopje, Macedonia
The kid is top top player and genuinely rate him as such, but someone needs to tell him he is no Ronaldo. Not sure making him untouchable like Ole did is the right way to do it.
 

Lebo

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 6, 2016
Messages
171
I honestly am not gonna complain about the guy who scored 6 champions league goals in 6 games this season in a very tough group. Obviously the problems we have as a team are deeper than him.
 

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
23,268
Two 20 goal seasons back to back playing with or returning from injuries, with 15 assists last season as well. From left wing.

Imagine what he would be like if he could stay fit?

There is no shame in not being ronaldo or Rooney and I am not sure anyone expects him to be, but he's not the issue in our team.

We need some depth so he doesn't have to play through injuries.
Yep. He's actually one of the most productive inside forwards in world football.
I have no idea what people want. These comparisons are insane.
 

Josep Dowling

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
5,724
I think what the OP is actually suggesting is that Rashford gets the importance of a Rooney or Ronaldo without actually being close to that level, and the OP likely ascertains the reason behind that to his off field work and image.
And I would say this is absolutely correct. He was put in the team of the season by a number of pundits. I think he been shockingly bad for at least half the season, especially the last 10 games. People are blaming his injury and requiring an operation. If the injury was hindering him that much I doubt the club would allow him to play so many games.
 

stw2022

Full Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2021
Messages
645
Which peers are you talking about?

Now randomly Beckham is brought in. Did you rate Rashford as better player than Scholes, Beckham, Lewandowski and many other great players just because he played at higher level when he was 18?

Did anyone say Rashford is one of the greatest player? It's like people love to argue imaginary points just to have a go at player.

Few of the ManUtd fans wank themselves to death when players like Son are discussed, when you read Spurs fan opinion on him, its same like any other attacking wingers. Inconsistent and decision making problem.

Few see him as good player who has very good end product and can get better, they are ok with Rashford.

Then there are few who comes and moan about "Is he better than Ronaldo, Rooney? No way. Is he better than Beckham at same age? No. Can he be the lynchpin in the team that will dominate PL and CL? No way" and all that nonsense, they just moan about him no matter what.

Also it's hilarious people come up with "Can he be the lynchpin in the team that will win CL? No" as everyone and their dogs rated players like Mendy, Rudiger, Kovacic, Jorginho, Werner, Mount as players who will be winning CLs just a year ago when they looked so poor under Lampard, well everyone except Mendy and Mount. It's as if winning PL and CL depends on one player.
At 24 he shouldn’t be spending a season looking indistinguishable on the ball to a nervous 17 year old the manager is giving game time to.

He’s played nearly 300 senior games for club and county. Not only should these basic flaws In his game be well in the road to bring eradicated we should start expecting performances from him.

Rice, Shaw, Sancho, Grealish, Maddison, Chilwell, Mount, Foden, Greenwood..., these are just players of similar age or younger just within the England team who are vastly superior both in their individual positions and as footballers than Rashford.

pick out any one we’ve ever had who was as bad as Rashford is after 271 games for us or anyone, or anywhere close to that number, who went on to be an elite player
 

KM

I’m afraid I just blue myself
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
48,530
And I would say this is absolutely correct. He was put in the team of the season by a number of pundits. I think he been shockingly bad for at least half the season, especially the last 10 games. People are blaming his injury and requiring an operation. If the injury was hindering him that much I doubt the club would allow him to play so many games.
Interesting can you name the pundits who put him him in team of the season? I can't see anyone apart from Gary Neville who put him in their team.
 

kafta

Perpetual Under 11's Team Player
Joined
Sep 29, 2004
Messages
5,054
Location
Beirut
i think its tough to assess him right now. He has obviously been playing through an injury for some time, and seems he will go to the Euros and again not be 100% at the start of next season.

I think if we want to focus on the football side alone, he has some very good potential. But he has some flaws that are probably expected at his age. I don't think he has escaped criticism because of who he is, but rather he has not been dropped due to Ole not trusting the alternatives. Maybe if Sancho comes in, then this could change.
 

KM

I’m afraid I just blue myself
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
48,530
Which peers are you talking about?

Now randomly Beckham is brought in. Did you rate Rashford as better player than Scholes, Beckham, Lewandowski and many other great players just because he played at higher level when he was 18?

Did anyone say Rashford is one of the greatest player? It's like people love to argue imaginary points just to have a go at player.

Few of the ManUtd fans wank themselves to death when players like Son are discussed, when you read Spurs fan opinion on him, its same like any other attacking wingers. Inconsistent and decision making problem.

Few see him as good player who has very good end product and can get better, they are ok with Rashford.

Then there are few who comes and moan about "Is he better than Ronaldo, Rooney? No way. Is he better than Beckham at same age? No. Can he be the lynchpin in the team that will dominate PL and CL? No way" and all that nonsense, they just moan about him no matter what.

Also it's hilarious people come up with "Can he be the lynchpin in the team that will win CL? No" as everyone and their dogs rated players like Mendy, Rudiger, Kovacic, Jorginho, Werner, Mount as players who will be winning CLs just a year ago when they looked so poor under Lampard, well everyone except Mendy and Mount. It's as if winning PL and CL depends on one player.
United fans are morons. You can see some of the posters in this thread for examples too.
 

Andersons Dietician

Full Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2016
Messages
11,280
Players go through a slump but they don’t reach 300 games and rarely look competent on the ball.

There should be a base level of performance and consistency that Rashford simply does not have.

A switch might randomly go on, he’ll wake up look in the mirror and notice because he’s 26 he’ll suddenly become a completely different footballer. Maybe that will happen but it needs to start being okay to express the sentiment that it’s looking increasingly unlikely to
Im sure if you ask @roonster09 he’ll back my credentials as a Rashford detractor but surely saying “not look competent on the ball” is hyperbole. He can pass, he can dribble, his first touch is decent but his problem is when and how to do these things. That’s mentality, and just something that will come from maturity. Maybe to get there he needs dropped or someone with a firmer hand than Ole to beat it in to him.

For all we know maybe Ole has these conversations with him all the time and it just hasn’t sunk in yet. I just don’t agree about not looking competent. Simply decisions are what is wrong with him.

Anyway if Greenwood continues as he is and Sancho comes in then Rashford is going to have to improve to fight for his place in the starting 11.
 

stw2022

Full Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2021
Messages
645
United fans are morons. You can see some of the posters in this thread for examples too.
Like those triggered by different opinions yet join a forum.

Every opinion is moronic but mine, *foam at mouth, smash keyboard, yell at parents
 

KM

I’m afraid I just blue myself
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
48,530
Like those triggered by different opinions yet join a forum.

Every opinion is moronic but mine, *foam at mouth, smash keyboard, yell at parents
Calm down mate, you seem to be triggered by it. It's alright. Take a breather. Go out for a walk or something. I wasn't even mentioning you, but perhaps you've some doubt over your intelligence that you thought I mentioned you.
 

Tarrou

Full Member
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
17,920
Location
Sydney
he's regressed in the last couple of years for me

and I think it's because of injuries and us over-playing him
 

stw2022

Full Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2021
Messages
645
Im sure if you ask @roonster09 he’ll back my credentials as a Rashford detractor but surely saying “not look competent on the ball” is hyperbole. He can pass, he can dribble, his first touch is decent but his problem is when and how to do these things. That’s mentality, and just something that will come from maturity. Maybe to get there he needs dropped or someone with a firmer hand than Ole to beat it in to him.

For all we know maybe Ole has these conversations with him all the time and it just hasn’t sunk in yet. I just don’t agree about not looking competent. Simply decisions are what is wrong with him.

Anyway if Greenwood continues as he is and Sancho comes in then Rashford is going to have to improve to fight for his place in the starting 11.
Greenwood is already ahead of him for me and Sancho isn’t even in same postcode.

I don’t get the defensive to the idea his development stalled. I’m not saying he’s a bad human being. But he’s too far behind too many players, many of whom are much younger for the flaws in his game to be ignored
 

Andycoleno9

Full Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
15,959
Location
Croatia
He is amazing talent. In a "bad" season he scores 20 goals. But his problem is that he is trying to be what he is not. He is goalscoring inside forward who is trying to play as wide playmaker. When he plays simple he is top player.
 

Andersons Dietician

Full Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2016
Messages
11,280
Calm down mate, you seem to be triggered by it. It's alright. Take a breather. Go out for a walk or something. I wasn't even mentioning you, but perhaps you've some doubt over your intelligence that you thought I mentioned you.
Probably didn’t take it personally and was just pointing out the flaw in your post.
 

stw2022

Full Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2021
Messages
645
he's regressed in the last couple of years for me

and I think it's because of injuries and us over-playing him
Could be. But whatever the reason it needs to stop sending people into rages calling other ‘morons’ for noticing the regression.
 

SATA

Full Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2005
Messages
12,955
Location
We all love United
Where does the thinking that he thinks he’s Ronaldo come from? Just because of the way he tends to take his free kicks?
 

Andersons Dietician

Full Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2016
Messages
11,280
Greenwood is already ahead of him for me and Sancho isn’t even in same postcode.

I don’t get the defensive to the idea his development stalled. I’m not saying he’s a bad human being. But he’s too far behind too many players, many of whom are much younger for the flaws in his game to be ignored
His technique is probably not going to improve that much more but yeah again it’s the same thing mentally his development has stalled or there haven’t been signs of improvement over the last few seasons in the decisions he makes. But again I just feel like that’s something that can change quite quickly.

I do find the people that think he is above critiscim do tend to get quite abusive and loud with it and can’t have a proper conversation about it but what can you do.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
28,273
At 24 he shouldn’t be spending a season looking indistinguishable on the ball to a nervous 17 year old the manager is giving game time to.

He’s played nearly 300 senior games for club and county. Not only should these basic flaws In his game be well in the road to bring eradicated we should start expecting performances from him.

Rice, Shaw, Sancho, Grealish, Maddison, Chilwell, Mount, Foden, Greenwood..., these are just players of similar age or younger just within the England team who are vastly superior both in their individual positions and as footballers than Rashford.

pick out any one we’ve ever had who was as bad as Rashford is after 271 games for us or anyone, or anywhere close to that number, who went on to be an elite player
You think he is terrible on the ball I don't. I find your posts on Rashford as hyperbolic nonsense but everyone entitled opinion and all that. Reading your posts one would think we are talking about some non league player.