Has the cult of Rashford become more important than the player?

[united_99]

Quite the creative angles being used to try to make the case for shitting on one of our most important players

Not even rival fans despise our players more than our own fans

This. Listing the amount of games Veron, Stam & Co. played to make some weird point. I am surprised some Bryan Robson stats haven’t been used yet to shit on Rashford.

 

[Ali Dia]

Martial is a striker though and Rashford is a winger. So that output is more acceptable for Rashford than Martial

He’s also regularly lowest for distance covered and pressing actions. He’s a winger but he’s mostly our furthest forward player. His lack of intensity harms us in the press and his decision making regularly contributes to our attacks breaking down.

 

[9 Stone Elvis]

Ordinarily that is true but it doesn't matter what profession you are in, at the end of the day your health is your health, your employer has a duty or care to you and a doctor has a similar duty to do no harm.

I'm not too fussed what other people believe as we are on a football forum with the capacity to have differing views and opinions.

However, in my opinion where footballers are encouraged to delay medical treatment and have pain killing injections instead then I believe they are failing their duty of care. And worse, if it leads to long term issues (as we know it can do as ex pros have spoken out about long term damage and pain issues) then the medical profession is failing in its duty.

However that isn't a surprise considering their complicity in doping and ignoring long term impacts or repetitive head injuries.

That's why I said Rashford had done us a favour. Because regardless of profession, even if I were a footballer, I would have had the operation to sort the issue straight away.

As a general discussion what you say is not without merit and I do take your point.

However we have to trust the player and the medical professionals to manage knocks, injuries and anything else that may prevent a player from playing. Players tend to want to play and injuries can often be managed. If Rashford was sufficiently injured he simply wouldn't be able to play, if he is deemed fit enough to play then his performances are judged just as any other players would be. When Pogba was playing poorly I heard some saying "he's still getting over Covid" well sorry if that's a factor then he shouldn't be on the pitch.

I know we have Louis Saha types who have to be 100% to walk onto a pitch but they are rare, most players will play if its at all possible and by the end of a season Im sure many are playing with some sort of hinderance.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

I find it impressive that STW has gone to the trouble of digging up appearance numbers for a whole bunch of signings over the previous 20 years to try and make some point about "expectations" and how people apparently have none for Rashford. But when repeatedly told of the impact Rashford has had in his 270!!! appearances to date and how it compares with players of a similar age and profile - in other words, how his performances match up to his peers, to whom we compare him - he has nothing useful to say.

Since Fernandes was on that list, I feel like it's worth looking back at his career to date and checking to see how old he was when he had his first good season (answer: he was 23). And also how average he had been until that season (answer: he had scored fewer goals in his career at the age of 23 than Rashford scored this season).

But nah, players don't get better past the grizzled age of 23!

 

[stw2022]

The point about appearances is that none of those who came with the similar or less number of games under the belt was treated like the inexperienced novice people treat Rashford as in terms of expectations.

Exactly the same with Lingard, for many it seems he was indistinguishable from a mere child taking baby steps into the game despite being 28.

 

[9 Stone Elvis]

I find it impressive that STW has gone to the trouble of digging up appearance numbers for a whole bunch of signings over the previous 20 years to try and make some point about "expectations" and how people apparently have none for Rashford. But when repeatedly told of the impact Rashford has had in his 270!!! appearances to date and how it compares with players of a similar age and profile - in other words, how his performances match up to his peers, to whom we compare him - he has nothing useful to say.

Since Fernandes was on that list, I feel like it's worth looking back at his career to date and checking to see how old he was when he had his first good season (answer: he was 23). And also how average he had been until that season (answer: he had scored fewer goals in his career at the age of 23 than Rashford scored this season).

But nah, players don't get better past the grizzled age of 23!

How did you measure what Fernades first good season was? Going on Wiki and checking the stats no doubt and then comparing them to a striker.

No one has said players dont get better after 23
No one has said Rashford wont get better
No one (I think) has said Rashford is a bad player (not with any credibility)

I think the point that is being made is quite simple. When it comes to certain home grown players, while one side are saying they get "shat on", the other side are saying they dont get the same amount of scrutiny. It has been said that Rashford is still very young which is true to a certain extend but 23 isnt THAT young for a top level footballer. He is also very experienced for his age having played in so many games for us. I think all that is happening here is that a comparison is being made with other big name players that have signed for Man Utd at around the same age and the same or less experience and how they were viewed by the fans and in most cases they were being signed as close to the finished article. Its muddying the waters a bit but appearances are being used simply because its often said that its not a players age but "miles on the clock" that actually counts. Its being used to counter the point the Rashford is very much still learning. You could say a 23 year old may be quite inexperienced but you could also say that a 23 year old who has played almost 300 games is very experienced.

I think in discussions like this Rashford suffers from the blind faith that certain fans showed in Welbeck and Lingard who were clearly not good enough but were considered "one of our own". I think he is a level above that at least but someone questioning his performance shouldn't be automatically dismissed just because everyone likes the player.

 

[stw2022]

Exactly nobody is saying a 23 year old can’t improve but we still talk about Rashford as if he’s at Greenwood’s level of experience

 

[Doracle]

Exactly nobody is saying a 23 year old can’t improve but we still talk about Rashford as if he’s at Greenwood’s level of experience

You are looking at this the wrong way around. No one is saying that Rashford is immune from criticism, that he doesn’t have areas to improve or disputing that some of his performances this year could have been better. Still less is anyone trying to argue that he should be treated like an 18 year old academy player. These points are obvious strawmen.

What people are saying on this thread, which you seem to be constantly ignoring, is that Rashford is one of the most productive young left wingers in Europe. Had we signed him last summer and he’d produced 35 goals and assists from LW and been 3rd highest scorer in the CL, he’d be being lorded as a superb signing and we wouldn’t have any threads of this nature. It’s only the fact he is an existing player, for whom expectations are sky high, that he is being treated as some sort of failure/problem.

 

[Rightnr]

In general, this 'he's still young' narrative has steadily crept in to absolve sub-par players from the youth from responsibility when they don't perform or have proven not to be good enough but the club doesn't want to spend money on a proper replacement.

This type of language can also be seen in the McTominay discussions even though he's 25 in a few months.

 

[krentz]

He's in danger of becoming another Theo walcott instead of the next Cristiano Ronaldo.

 

[Swiss_Red89]

He's in danger of becoming another Theo walcott instead of the next Cristiano Ronaldo.

Or he becomes something inbetween, you know this is also an Option.

Too much black/white thinking in this thread.

 

[Swiss_Red89]

Games played at time we signed them (ex internationals)

Bruno 290

Rio 242

Rvn 261

Veron 212

Pogba 185

Mata 309

Maguire 317

Yorke 287

Stam-164





Rashford -271 (currently)



Absolutely nobody in the near quarter of a century those players were signed ever suggested someone was a spoiled glory hunter for imposing expectations on those players the first day they arrived. So many, if they’re honest with themselves, still treat Rashford like he’s some developing teenager learning the ropes and hide behind his age isn’t that far off many of the above when they signed and his actual experience significantly ahead of many

Can you post a stat comparison where it's visible how many goals Rashford scored when it was rainy during the match compared to the other striking greats of our club? I feel you would be able to expose Rash as a nice weather player.

 

[krentz]

Or he becomes something inbetween, you know this is also an Option.

Too much black/white thinking in this thread.

Theo Ronaldo?
Cristiano walcott?

 

[Withnail]

In general, this 'he's still young' narrative has steadily crept in to absolve sub-par players from the youth from responsibility when they don't perform or have proven not to be good enough but the club doesn't want to spend money on a proper replacement.

This type of language can also be seen in the McTominay discussions even though he's 25 in a few months.

I wouldn't really agree. A 24 year old is still a young player. McT is coming into his prime years soon so he really needs to kick on over the next season or two or he'll have to be moved on.

Or he becomes something inbetween, you know this is also an Option.

Too much black/white thinking in this thread.

Well exactly, the chances of Rashford reaching Ronaldo levels are slim and that expectation is unfair on any player. If he continues to progress as he has been he'll be an excellent player for us.

Hopefully Sancho comes in, Martial can finds his form again, Amad gets more game time and he won't have to play close to 60 games a season while not 100% fit.

 

[Swiss_Red89]

Theo Ronaldo?
Cristiano walcott?

He will just continue to be Marcus Rashford.
He already is a better player than Walcott ever was imo, Walcott's only asset was pace, Rashford has far more to his game.

He will probably continue to improve and has the chance to develop in one of the worlds best forwards, despite never being able to hit the heights of Ronaldo. (which is totally okay)

 

[big rons sovereign]

I wouldn't really agree. A 24 year old is still a young player. McT is coming into his prime years soon so he really needs to kick on over the next season or two or he'll have to be moved on.



Well exactly, the chances of Rashford reaching Ronaldo levels are slim and that expectation is unfair on any player. If he continues to progress as he has been he'll be an excellent player for us.

Hopefully Sancho comes in, Martial can finds his form again, Amad gets more game time and he won't have to play close to 60 games a season while not 100% fit.

I could be wrong, but it seems that a lot of names are in this thread shitting on rashford are the same names that have been shitting on ole all season.
Which speaks more to me about those names than rashford or ole.

 

[JB7]

Some weird narratives going on in this thread, trying to discredit 23 as being not a young footballer.

If I look to the best attackers in world football, the vast majority are considerably older looking at Lewandowski (32), Suarez (34), Benzema (33), Zlatan (39), Lukaku (28), Kane (27), Neymar (29), Salah (28), Aguero (33), Aubameyang (31), Cavani (34), Immobile (31).

How many of those had been playing near Rashfords current level at 23? At Rashfords age Lewandowki was nearly signing for Blackburn, Salah had been shipped out of Chelsea as a reject, Zlatan & Suarez were still at Ajax - point I am making is that attacking players in the modern game are always improving with age and experience. Rashford is putting up good numbers and if he became available on the market almost every club in the world would want to sign him.

I have obviously discounted Ronaldo (36) and Messi (33) from this argument because they were basically freaks although Ronaldos real explosion season still only came when he was 21/22. I have discounted Haaland and Mbappe because it's shaping that they will become the next Ronaldo/Messi argument and there is no shame in being one step below them.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

You are looking at this the wrong way around. No one is saying that Rashford is immune from criticism, that he doesn’t have areas to improve or disputing that some of his performances this year could have been better. Still less is anyone trying to argue that he should be treated like an 18 year old academy player. These points are obvious strawmen.

What people are saying on this thread, which you seem to be constantly ignoring, is that Rashford is one of the most productive young left wingers in Europe. Had we signed him last summer and he’d produced 35 goals and assists from LW and been 3rd highest scorer in the CL, he’d be being lorded as a superb signing and we wouldn’t have any threads of this nature. It’s only the fact he is an existing player, for whom expectations are sky high, that he is being treated as some sort of failure/problem.

Quoting this just on the off-chance that STW will finally have a useful response to it.

And I see that other guy is actually doing the Lingard-Welbeck comparisons too, now! It's almost like he's completely missed the dozens of bits in this thread where people are defending Rashford with arguments beyond "we like him, and if you're daring to question him, you clearly don't!"

 

[Rightnr]

I could be wrong, but it seems that a lot of names are in this thread shitting on rashford are the same names that have been shitting on ole all season.
Which speaks more to me about those names than rashford or ole.

Or it could be that Rashford's constant selection when out-of-form is a symptom of what many feels is mismanagement i.e. he's being made out to be better than he is and his inclusion in the squad when he's half-fit and doesn't contribute to our forward press in CR7-like manner is to the detriment of the team. Which is exactly what this thread is about.

And btw those 'names' can be addressed directly, instead some cowardly catch-all remarks.

 

[big rons sovereign]

Or it could be that Rashford's constant selection when out-of-form is a symptom of what many feels is mismanagement i.e. he's being made out to be better than he is and his inclusion in the squad when he's half-fit and doesn't contribute to our forward press in CR7-like manner is to the detriment of the team. Which is exactly what this thread is about.

And btw those 'names' can be addressed directly, instead some cowardly catch-all remarks.

And there we have it, not only are you intent on hammering rashford but you've also managed to bring 'management' into it too.
I've gotta hand it to you, you're consistent with the negativity.

I don't need to name names as they know who they are, as does anybody who's read a thread over the last 10 months.
All I had to do was cast a line, and here you are on the hook.

Btw, is it not exhausting being so incredibly bitter and negative all the time?

 

[9 Stone Elvis]

Quoting this just on the off-chance that STW will finally have a useful response to it.

And I see that other guy is actually doing the Lingard-Welbeck comparisons too, now! It's almost like he's completely missed the dozens of bits in this thread where people are defending Rashford with arguments beyond "we like him, and if you're daring to question him, you clearly don't!"

If Im "the other guy", I didn't do a comparison I said that one of the reasons why this whole butting of heads is taking place is because there was a tendency to defend Lingard and Welbeck, I said Rashford was a superior player.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

I said that one of the reasons why this whole butting of heads is taking place is because there was a tendency to defend Lingard and Welbeck

The butting of heads is taking place because the most vocal (and simultaneously devoid of substance) guy in the topic is someone who thinks no top 7 sides in a top league would want to sign Rashford.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

This thread is genuinely a train wreck on both sides of the divide.

 

[9 Stone Elvis]

The butting of heads is taking place because the most vocal (and simultaneously devoid of substance) guy in the topic is someone who thinks no top 7 sides in a top league would want to sign Rashford.

The extreme on the other side is certainly no better.

 

[Rightnr]

And there we have it, not only are you intent on hammering rashford but you've also managed to bring 'management' into it too.
I've gotta hand it to you, you're consistent with the negativity.

I don't need to name names as they know who they are, as does anybody who's read a thread over the last 10 months.
All I had to do was cast a line, and here you are on the hook.

Btw, is it not exhausting being so incredibly bitter and negative all the time?

You're not worth my time.

 

[big rons sovereign]

You're not worth my time.

Wow.
That's fine, I wouldn't want to drag you away from any important self aggrandising.
We lowly surfs must know our place eh?

I'll leave you to continue pissing on every thread you come across.

Again, I apologise for wasting your extremely important time.

 

[roseguy64]

The extreme on the other side is certainly no better.

Who has presented an alternative to that that is extreme?

 

[Wibble]

Also really enjoying this other one saying RedCafe is falling prey to the #woke SJW Boogeyman because he got banned for saying an injury is a SCAM.

Preach, lad! They're all blind, only you can convince them to take the red pill

He was temporarily banned for saying Rashford was feigning injury. He was later permanently banned for quality control reasons.

 

[roonster09]

How did you measure what Fernades first good season was? Going on Wiki and checking the stats no doubt and then comparing them to a striker.

No one has said players dont get better after 23
No one has said Rashford wont get better
No one (I think) has said Rashford is a bad player (not with any credibility)

I think the point that is being made is quite simple. When it comes to certain home grown players, while one side are saying they get "shat on", the other side are saying they dont get the same amount of scrutiny. It has been said that Rashford is still very young which is true to a certain extend but 23 isnt THAT young for a top level footballer. He is also very experienced for his age having played in so many games for us. I think all that is happening here is that a comparison is being made with other big name players that have signed for Man Utd at around the same age and the same or less experience and how they were viewed by the fans and in most cases they were being signed as close to the finished article. Its muddying the waters a bit but appearances are being used simply because its often said that its not a players age but "miles on the clock" that actually counts. Its being used to counter the point the Rashford is very much still learning. You could say a 23 year old may be quite inexperienced but you could also say that a 23 year old who has played almost 300 games is very experienced.

I think in discussions like this Rashford suffers from the blind faith that certain fans showed in Welbeck and Lingard who were clearly not good enough but were considered "one of our own". I think he is a level above that at least but someone questioning his performance shouldn't be automatically dismissed just because everyone likes the player.

Rashford got plenty of criticism, right from day 1. Rashbeck, championship player, won't start for any PL team was very commonly used words/phrase to criticise him.

From the start of 2019-20 season, here are the threads criticizing Rashford (there are couple of threads questioning why is there too much criticism, that was the toxic levels) and then there was one more thread which isn't posted here which was about how James was exposing stars like Rashford when he scored couple of goals. Then the biggest of them all "Rashford bubble thread"

All these in last couple of seasons.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/sorry-but-why-is-rashford-rated-here.463104/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/is-oles-favoritism-of-rashford-costing-us.463137/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/rashfords-hopeless-on-the-right.461950/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/has...become-more-important-than-the-player.463227/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/rashford-and-the-offside-conundrum.460300/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/rashford-and-martial-are-a-problem.458752/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/should-we-be-worried-about-rashford.458179/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/in-...d-starts-for-other-europes-elite-club.458459/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/how-concerned-should-we-be-about-rashfords-form.457538/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/ras...lems-and-shaws-absence-is-exposing-it.456745/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/rashford-or-welbeck.450698/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/rashford-must-be-dropped.450905/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/where-will-rashford-play.450490/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/marcus-rashford-vs-tammy-abraham.450536/

Threads to question why there is too much criticism .

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/why-criticism-of-rashford-is-unfair.447709/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/a-rashford-reminder.450827/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/have-fans-already-given-up-on-rashford.447886/

 

[9 Stone Elvis]

Who has presented an alternative to that that is extreme?

Well I think Rashford could be better, Im not 100% convinced about him ever becoming a truly top class player, however I rate him and I respect his numbers. I have also "questioned" (just questioned mind) if his off the field activities distorts our view of him i.e its hard to be too critical of on field performance when he is doing so much good off the field and whether it could (only "could") be a distraction.

Apparently that makes me a Tory sympathiser who believes Rashford should know his place.

Those who have pointed out stats to demonstrate his ability have dismissed those talking about actually watching him in games.

Make no mistake the only reason anyone has pointed out other players we have signed over the years around the same age is simply as a response to how young he is being offered up as a reason for any poor performance. The only reason appearances are brought up is as a response to those saying he is only 23 and just getting started.

I like Rashford, I think he has something and I think he contributes but this thread feels like any VAR discussion I have ever had, you can only be on one side or the other with little your views and if you offer up an opinion its pushed to the extreme of whatever side you are deemed to be on.

 

[9 Stone Elvis]

Rashford got plenty of criticism, right from day 1. Rashbeck, championship player, won't start for any PL team was very commonly used words/phrase to criticise him.

From the start of 2019-20 season, here are the threads criticizing Rashford (there are couple of threads questioning why is there too much criticism, that was the toxic levels) and then there was one more thread which isn't posted here which was about how James was exposing stars like Rashford when he scored couple of goals. Then the biggest of them all "Rashford bubble thread"

All these in last couple of seasons.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/sorry-but-why-is-rashford-rated-here.463104/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/is-oles-favoritism-of-rashford-costing-us.463137/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/rashfords-hopeless-on-the-right.461950/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/has...become-more-important-than-the-player.463227/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/rashford-and-the-offside-conundrum.460300/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/rashford-and-martial-are-a-problem.458752/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/should-we-be-worried-about-rashford.458179/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/in-...d-starts-for-other-europes-elite-club.458459/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/how-concerned-should-we-be-about-rashfords-form.457538/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/ras...lems-and-shaws-absence-is-exposing-it.456745/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/rashford-or-welbeck.450698/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/rashford-must-be-dropped.450905/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/where-will-rashford-play.450490/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/marcus-rashford-vs-tammy-abraham.450536/

Threads to question why there is too much criticism .

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/why-criticism-of-rashford-is-unfair.447709/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/a-rashford-reminder.450827/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/have-fans-already-given-up-on-rashford.447886/

Apologies, Im relatively new to posting here so I was only really talking about how this discussion in this thread developed. There are some great posters here, I can see that from the times I have read the threads I have but there are some extreme views too which I try to tune out.

 

[Marwood]

He's in danger of becoming another Theo walcott instead of the next Cristiano Ronaldo.

If he finished playing today he'd have done more than Theo Walcott.

Rashford will go on to have a very good career.

It's just a question of refining his game. About 18 months ago I thought he was on track to be an all time United great. That game at City back end of 2019, where he hit the bar, that was a player in complete control. A play who had arrived.

Since then it's wobbled. His game seems to have got a bit confused.

I'm sure though with a bit of rest and maturity it'll come good again.

 

[krentz]

If he finished playing today he'd have done more than Theo Walcott.

Rashford will go on to have a very good career.

It's just a question of refining his game. About 18 months ago I thought he was on track to be an all time United great. That game at City back end of 2019, where he hit the bar, that was a player in complete control. A play who had arrived.

Since then it's wobbled. His game seems to have got a bit confused.

I'm sure though with a bit of rest and maturity it'll come good again.

In what way though? while his off-pitch activity is very commendable, football perspective-wise he hasn't done much than Theo Walcott. Both relly heavily on pace and extra space given to them to exploit. Walcott was a very decent goalscorer too, and unlike Rashford he wasnt really set up to be a goalscorer as he'd to accomodate genuine strikers in his team, like RvP. For me there hasnt really distinctive differential between these 2 yet, hence why I think Rashford need to up his game, like his decision making, passing and receiving the ball in the tight area, and why should not he? cause unlike walcott Rashford still has a time to do exactly that.
On second bolded part I think it's combination of injury and fatigue. Hed had long term injury in 19/20 in which he was supposed to be out for the rest of season then pandemic arrived and football got prolonged schedule up to August. Last season was marathon for players, they had to play every 2-3 days which made his condition even worse. This is why i think hes made very unwisely decision to go to EURO, and world cup in 2022 that would be 3 summers without proper rest for Rashford.

 

[JB7]

In what way though? while his off-pitch activity is very commendable, football perspective-wise he hasn't done much than Theo Walcott. Both relly heavily on pace and extra space given to them to exploit. Walcott was a very decent goalscorer too, and unlike Rashford he wasnt really set up to be a goalscorer as he'd to accomodate genuine strikers in his team, like RvP. For me there hasnt really distinctive differential between these 2 yet, hence why I think Rashford need to up his game, like his decision making, passing and receiving the ball in the tight area, and why should not he? cause unlike walcott Rashford still has a time to do exactly that.
On second bolded part I think it's combination of injury and fatigue. Hed had long term injury in 19/20 in which he was supposed to be out for the rest of season then pandemic arrived and football got prolonged schedule up to August. Last season was marathon for players, they had to play every 2-3 days which made his condition even worse. This is why i think hes made very unwisely decision to go to EURO, and world cup in 2022 that would be 3 summers without proper rest for Rashford.

Well he's scored 100 career goals, by the age of 23 Walcott had scored 51 I think. 57 assists to Walcotts 40 at the age of 23. Heck Walcott is 9 years older than him and has only made 33 more assists than him in his entire career so I'm sure sure how you can possibly say he is set up to accommodate strikers more than Rashford, that's simply wrong.

I agree with you second part btw, crazy that he has not had a proper break. He has looked incredibly tired for several months and unfortunately the blame for not giving him a rest has to lie with Ole. It has been clear for a long time that a spell out would do him good and he insisted on playing him in every game, even when he was adding nothing at all to our game.

 

[MackRobinson]

Rashford is a fine player, who has shown improvement nearly every year. The fans just haven't gotten over their delusion that every winger needs to be approaching the level of Ronaldo. At the very least, he would be a rotated player at every big club in the world.

 

[krentz]

Well he's scored 100 career goals, by the age of 23 Walcott had scored 51 I think. 57 assists to Walcotts 40 at the age of 23. Heck Walcott is 9 years older than him and has only made 33 more assists than him in his entire career so I'm sure sure how you can possibly say he is set up to accommodate strikers more than Rashford, that's simply wrong.

I agree with you second part btw, crazy that he has not had a proper break. He has looked incredibly tired for several months and unfortunately the blame for not giving him a rest has to lie with Ole. It has been clear for a long time that a spell out would do him good and he insisted on playing him in every game, even when he was adding nothing at all to our game.

Walcott just like i said played supportive role for his team main striker. Ole had no other option because of Martial's situation even then Rashford has had 5 DAYs break leading up to the EL final, there should not be any excuse for his poor performance against Villareal really. Also why should we blame the club and its manager? Manchester United FC is the one who pays his wages, NOT England, and what are fans going to say if he complained about "overplaying" again next season? should we hold him accountable for his decision to go to EURO or let's keep blaming his club manager? Genuine question.

 

[yamo123x]

Watching Rashford amble onto the pitch other day for England and seeing him have 4 touches of the ball in his 20min cameo and doing pretty much nothing makes me realise that the issue is with the player, not his coach, team or style of play. HE has an arrogant swagger now, thinks he is untouchable and has been so poor for us pretty much 2/3 of the season.

Southgate rightfully isnt starting him, but OLE, being who he is, never had the balls to drop him.

Marcus needs to recharge his batteries, get injury free, and remember how he got where he is now and start putting a shift in again. When he first came into the team he was a breath of fresh air, chasing lost causes, so humble, and developed into a fine player. The off field activities have no doubt changed his mindset..i hope someone at the club can give him a few harsh realities and we get back to seeing the Marcus we love.

 

[JB7]

Walcott just like i said played supportive role for his team main striker. Ole had no other option because of Martial's situation even then Rashford has had 5 DAYs break leading up to the EL final, there should not be any excuse for his poor performance against Villareal really. Also why should we blame the club and its manager? Manchester United FC is the one who pays his wages, NOT England, and what are fans going to say if he complained about "overplaying" again next season? should we hold him accountable for his decision to go to EURO or let's keep blaming his club manager? Genuine question.

Yeah, I've shown the statistics showing Rashford clearly plays more of a supportive role for the striker and the team in lieu of both his goals & assists records being far superior.

Ok so, for one, where has the "5 days" come from? He was at Wolves on the Sunday, the Europa final was 3 days later on Wednesday. He has looked half-fit at best since about February, guy has clearly needed two or three weeks out of the side which given the massive drop in his performance levels, we should easily have managed without him for a spell. That is the managers job to manage and on this occasion, he messed up.

I'm not going to criticise a player for playing for their national team at a tournament, that is a ridiculous stance and given the amount of the tournament potentially played at Wembley - any England player not walking over hot coals to play needed their head looking at.

 

[big rons sovereign]

Watching Rashford amble onto the pitch other day for England and seeing him have 4 touches of the ball in his 20min cameo and doing pretty much nothing makes me realise that the issue is with the player, not his coach, team or style of play. HE has an arrogant swagger now, thinks he is untouchable and has been so poor for us pretty much 2/3 of the season.

Southgate rightfully isnt starting him, but OLE, being who he is, never had the balls to drop him.

Marcus needs to recharge his batteries, get injury free, and remember how he got where he is now and start putting a shift in again. When he first came into the team he was a breath of fresh air, chasing lost causes, so humble, and developed into a fine player. The off field activities have no doubt changed his mindset..i hope someone at the club can give him a few harsh realities and we get back to seeing the Marcus we love.

Yeah, well said. Forget using his profile to force the corrupt govt into feeding hungry kids. feck em.
What's important is kicking a ball around a field.

 

[9 Stone Elvis]

Yeah, well said. Forget using his profile to force the corrupt govt into feeding hungry kids. feck em.
What's important is kicking a ball around a field.

On a Man Utd forum discussing his merits as a footballer, yes, yes it is.