Comparing Rashford to Walcott is criminal. Expecting anyone to be the next Cristiano Ronaldo is at best naive, we are talking about an all time great.
Has the cult of Rashford become more important than the player?
- Thread starter Nikelesh Reddy
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Why is it criminal?
Rashford is a far better player. Walcott was a painfully average attacker that benefitted from the promises that he showed at a very young age but never brought to senior level.
But it's ok to use the political stuff as a stick to beat him with on the football forum?
Ok, gotcha.
There is not really that much in it.
He's just so inconsistent, his life outside of football causes fans to have an irrational love for him. If he's been playing injured that's on him/manager but we can't assume it's that bad if he keeps playing through it. He'll have a few months a year where he's almost unplayable then a few months where all he does is dribble into an opponent. That's perfectly fine if he's *one* of our top players but if we're relying on him it explains why our form dips so often. As inconsistent as he is, he's still better than Martial and certainly deserves his place in the lineup.
Well Rashford already has as many England caps and more England goals.In what way though? while his off-pitch activity is very commendable, football perspective-wise he hasn't done much than Theo Walcott. Both relly heavily on pace and extra space given to them to exploit. Walcott was a very decent goalscorer too, and unlike Rashford he wasnt really set up to be a goalscorer as he'd to accomodate genuine strikers in his team, like RvP. For me there hasnt really distinctive differential between these 2 yet, hence why I think Rashford need to up his game, like his decision making, passing and receiving the ball in the tight area, and why should not he? cause unlike walcott Rashford still has a time to do exactly that.
On second bolded part I think it's combination of injury and fatigue. Hed had long term injury in 19/20 in which he was supposed to be out for the rest of season then pandemic arrived and football got prolonged schedule up to August. Last season was marathon for players, they had to play every 2-3 days which made his condition even worse. This is why i think hes made very unwisely decision to go to EURO, and world cup in 2022 that would be 3 summers without proper rest for Rashford.
Since he broke through he's been United's most important player(or thereabouts). I don't think Walcott ever reached that level within his team. Not consistently anyway.
Then just the general level Rashford has reached. I think his top level has been a fair way beyond Walcott's.
If Rashford was put up for sale now I thibk every club would be at least interested. Don't think that was ever true of Walcott.
Ideally he’d be a squad player. People are right when they point out he’s probably been one of our most important players in last few years but I think that speaks more of our decline than anything.
If he’s been playing with an injury and playing in ill-suited positions then despite anything else it’s disappointing he hasn’t been able to adapt his game to compensate for either of those things. He really isn’t any different a player than he was two or three years ago but appears to have a lot less of an impact as he’s still trying to be the same player despite the fact he’s being asked to play in a different position and despite apparently being limited by injury. This results in him becoming visibly disillusioned and sulking around the pitch.
His age forgives him a lot, as we’ve seen, but his passport forgives him a lot more. A foreign lad walking around the pitch and neglecting defensive duties as he has regularly since turn of the year would need to be missing a leg to get away with what Rashford has without getting buried by fans
An absolute average, one dimensional player who became a star for lack of proper competition at the club. Absolutely fantastic human being though but United is not a charity or an NGO. He either ups his game or should be shown the door. Mediocrity is becoming a culture at United.
this just shows how one dimensional our fans are.
Rashford has consistently been competing with Memphis Depay and Anthony Martial - has come out as the best out of the 3.
His first goal was a header and vs City last year if I remember right - something a player like Greenwood still hasn’t done after 2 seasons.
Mediocrity has always been a part of United - we had CB’s like Mikel silvestre, midfielders like Anderson or Fletcher, a winger like Antonio Valencia who can only use one of his foot, an average player covering our others like John oshea, a goal keeper like Barthez, flops like Forlan and Veron, a player with poor first touch like Hernandez, a poor work rate like Berbatov, winning titles with Cleverley because SAF could only ever rely on Scholes through his whole period here and no one could replace him, the CM version of Giggs was super average, what about the LB version of buttner? Class my arse. Fabio and Rafael,Phil and Gary Neville - twins with one being a complete waste of time in between two. We had Quintin Fortune yo! Rossi and Kleberson, Macheda? The injury version of Saha and Michael Owen haha.
The list goes on. You are just chatting absolute crap saying we have changed to rely on mediocre players because of bloody Marcus Rashford- at the the age of 23 he has outshone so many players at this club.
You just can’t get straight anymore because we have not been winning titles due to our poor managers in the last 10 years - yet you turn around and blame it on our best players as if we should be blaming our better players for our problems rather than our worst.
An absolute young wonderful player.
Better than Werner, Pulisic, Ziyech, Havertz (you are welcome to think that one is better than Rashford but not bloody all 3) - then my lord Rashford under Pep instead of Raheem sterling who at 26 just dribbles in to defenders to; would feet absolutely replaced by Rashford who would benefit from Pep’s tactical coaching.
Would be a part of the CL first teams if given on a bloody free.
Mediocre my arse. That’s what I describe our fans as.
Don’t particularly rate Martial either but the fact he’s used as a go-to example of a player Rashford is better than by comparison (when they decide comparing players is okay and when criticism of a United player suddenly doesn’t make someone a horrible human being) is a bit strange given Martial has a better goals per game record for us
Despite his poor stint with us, in his career at the same age Rashford is now Depay (another player mentioned above) was more prolific too and has continued to be so
Despite his poor stint with us, in his career at the same age Rashford is now Depay (another player mentioned above) was more prolific too and has continued to be so
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Depay was more prolific than Rashford at United?
You do know that Martial is more a striker than Rashford right?
Martial is also two to 3 years older than him.
Yet for you’re conviniece you forget the stats from this season.
Oh are we pretending Rashford is a midfielder now?
Nice player that steps up Vs some big teams.
Right in your understanding then a left inverted forward is the same as a central striker - then that ability to make right decisions and make a pass shouldn’t also count as much isn’t it ?
You guys just make up shit to make him sound like he is worthless just as much as I make up shit to value him.
The guy is a forward in your eyes then let him act like it. Martial is 2 years older then him - you go and say that Martial is better than him then completely don’t look at the season that just passed where Rashford absolutely demolished Martial.
just made Up bullshit.
Anyway - doesn’t matter, Rashford isn’t going anywhere so I hope you lose a hour of your sleep from frustration
Apparently we are pretending 78/258 is a better goal per game ratio than 88/271 though?
Yes because it is. Not much in it but ironic given how much Martial is the go to whipping boy for those otherwise morally offended by criticism of a player
Nope, haven't done that once. Haven't really seen it done either.But it's ok to use the political stuff as a stick to beat him with on the football forum?
Ok, gotcha.
Its completely illogical to discuss whether he is good enough to be a top forward at a top club to even mention anything to do with his off the field activities as a positive in those terms. Why would you? You can discuss it as a possible explanation for dips in form (rightly or wrongly) but the idea that because he has done good works off the field he gets more credit on it is just nonsense.
Hard to believe he’s still only 23.
Laughable. Pathetic post.Rashford is not going anywhere.Right in your understanding then a left inverted forward is the same as a central striker - then that ability to make right decisions and make a pass shouldn’t also count as much isn’t it ?
You guys just make up shit to make him sound like he is worthless just as much as I make up shit to value him.
The guy is a forward in your eyes then let him act like it. Martial is 2 years older then him - you go and say that Martial is better than him then completely don’t look at the season that just passed where Rashford absolutely demolished Martial.
just made Up bullshit.
Anyway - doesn’t matter, Rashford isn’t going anywhere so I hope you lose a hour of your sleep from frustration
i hope he continues to loss off these cretins for another decade.
these sort of people don’t get Man Utd, edit, don’t get football.
that’s not to say any player is beyond criticism, has elements of bad form, and can improve. Obviously.
I don’t understand why it’s always Martial vs Rashford, which transcends to completely OTT criticism of one of our best and most promising players.
Some of you lot think too much
If you genuinely think that 78/258 is a better goals per game ratio than 88/271, then that explains a lot [spoiler - it isn’t].
so many weird twists and turns.And I think the vast majority of people have offered no more than perfectly reasonable criticism.
He has a lot of talent, he can play incredibly well and sometimes his finishing looks brilliant. He has moments of absolute top class play where you think "wow". He also loves the club and you feel as long as nothing goes fantastically wrong we have a player for his entire career.
However....At times he looks lost in a game. Consistency seems to desert him and yes, at times he does appear to strut round the pitch while underperforming. Its fine also to say he didn't have a great season. A player with his actual ability should be able to be absolutely top class and a team like Man Utd NEED absolutely top class forwards if we want to truly compete at the top again. Thats not controversial surely?
Yeah if we ignore 98% of the posts criticizing him then this post is spot on.
There’s a difference between talking about how a player can improve on something like a player performance thread and talking about him on a thread that talks about him having some sort of cult.
If it’s just how he could improve on a performance thread - the people who value him like me could tell you what he needs to improve on and the hope I have that he does because he is a young player with time on his side aswell as him being a good contribution player even right now during his rougher period.
Talking about him having a cult and being part of that side (even without notice) is very Mourinho like (I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s some of the people who craved Mourinho who say this stuff about our players anyway) - putting the players down under a train like everything is better away.
Although Martial has a better return than Rashford in the Premiership (0.33 gpg to 0.31). Rashford makes up for it in the cups. It is definitely weird how little it takes for Martial to be absolutely slated compared to how much it would take for Rashford.
For what it’s worth, I expect that by next season or the one after it will become apparent that Rashford cannot be a 50 game per season striker for a club that is expected to win major trophies. Greenwood on the other hand will be just that.
If Werner can be one for a CL winning Chelsea then there is no reason to say Rashford has no chance.
Hard to do that when their last two braincells are fighting over whether or not Covid is a worldwide government conspiracy to stop them going to the pub
Striker, weird people still use that to describe Rashford
Benefits of being English and local. Not that I think Rashford deserves to be slated for what it's worth.
Rashford's in another league to Walcott, let's not be silly. Walcott had magnets in his boots that repelled the ball. Rashford has a serious amount of skill and it is overlooked just how good his passing game is, he can make defence splitting inch perfect passes and has done on many occasions. You ever see Walcott do anything like knuckle ball.a free kick in against Chelsea from 35 yards?! My issue with him is he loses focus and gets sloppy sometimes failing to do simple things like a 5 yard pass, makes decisions that cost the team as a whole and in recent times has lost the work-rate we used to associate with him. Any sane fan wants Rashford to be fulfilling his huge potential on the field. Hopefully we get Sancho in as serious competition for places will probably be of overall long term benefit and bring the best out of Marcus.
I think you need to have a look at some of the facts here.
Lack of proper competition? - Memphis Depay couldn't make it, Rashford did
Martial has failed, Alexis failed, so how is that lack of competition?
Average player? He is 23 and still developing
17/18 - 13 goals 10 assists
18/19 - 13 goals 10 assists
19/20 - 22 goals 12 assists
20/21 - 21 goals 15 asssits
Just out of curiosity, what other players around the PL do you think are average? I want to compare their stats to average rashford.
He's an outstanding young player and an outstanding young man. Some of the keyboard / armchair warriors around here need to give there heads a wobble, making out that he's some mediocre lower league player. Look at just his premier league goals return last year, every player above him in the list is older than him. Thats before you even look at assists, clutch moments etc...
| 1. | Harry Kane | Tottenham | 27 | England | 23 |
| 2. | Mohamed Salah | Liverpool | 29 | Egypt | 22 |
| 3. | Bruno Fernandes | Manchester United | 26 | Portugal | 18 |
| 4. | Patrick Bamford | Leeds | 27 | England | 17 |
| Son Heung-Min | Tottenham | 28 | South Korea | 17 | |
| 6. | Dominic Calvert-Lewin | Everton | 24 | England | 16 |
| 7. | Jamie Vardy | Leicester | 34 | England | 15 |
| 8. | Ollie Watkins | Aston Villa | 25 | England | 14 |
| 9. | Alexandre Lacazette | Arsenal | 26 | France | 13 |
| Ilkay Gündogan | Manchester City | 30 | Germany | 13 | |
| 11. | Callum Wilson | Newcastle | 29 | England | 12 |
| Chris Wood | Burnley | 29 | New Zealand | 12 | |
| Danny Ings | Southampton | 28 | England | 12 | |
| Kelechi Iheanacho | Leicester | 24 | Nigeria | 12 | |
| 15. | Gareth Bale | Tottenham | 31 | Wales | 11 |
| Marcus Rashford | Manchester United | 23 | England | 11 |
Yeah it’s just terminology mate. It was his initial position I think; he’s only been shunted out wide because he’ll never provide the numbers a top team needs.Striker, weird people still use that to describe Rashford
Yep, totally agree. The difficulty is that he’s judged against expectations, and each fan will have a different expectation. Do you see him in 5 years time, at 28, being one of the first names on the team sheet for an important match, like he is now?
We have some very strange people on here who seem hell bent on destroying Rashford. Season finished weeks ago, he made a brief cameo for England we still have these endless threads. What's he done now?
Did Rashford come around and sleep with your family members or something?
Jesus wept our fanbase can be a complete joke at times.
Did Rashford come around and sleep with your family members or something?
Jesus wept our fanbase can be a complete joke at times.
The evidence is to the contrary though. I would argue that the Caf (or at least a portion of it) seems to take great delight in running down players who are English and homegrown. It’s a bizarre trait. There is no way this thread would have been written about Martial if he’d contributed 36 GAs this season.
We’ve literally, just on this thread, had “fans” accuse him of scamming an injury, said he wouldn’t play for any top 7 club and call him a mediocre footballer who should be shown the door. Even Stone Elvis is going to have to accept at some point that there’s a lot of unbalanced opinions in the negative camp on this thread.
I think both are true for different factions of the fan base, but with that said, I think the criticisms of certain foreign players are much more personal and vitriolic. The character assassinations I see for Pogba and Martial in particular are plastered in every thread you go into on this forum, usually unprovoked. Foreign players, particularly, of African heritage are routinely referred to as lazy, arrogant and thick, and whilst I don't think all of the people saying these things are prejudiced, I can't help but think that if they weren't black and French, people wouldn't buy into it as easily.
With Rashford, although some of the takes are horrendous, I rarely see such personal attacks, even though I know some have started to use his off-field work as a stick to beat him with.