Has the cult of Rashford become more important than the player?

[Posh Red]

Im not the one comparing raising a family to what Rashford does - you are. I am raising two children right now, Im aware of what is involved but I have no idea of the personal circumstances of players who are doing that, maybe their wives and partners take the strain, maybe they employ a nanny, maybe they get help from family, maybe they do it all themselves. I dont know and dont need to know.

The point is when you see a player with extensive outside interests in the media and the various things Rashford has interests in and doing all of that coincides with him not playing so well, while the two things may be totally unconnected (and Im happy to concede that) its not unreasonable to wonder and in other circumstances with other players it HAS been asked without people being jumped on in the manner they are here just because in this instances the outside interest are worthy. None of us know how much time he is spending on other things.

Quite.

Rashford has had some excellent games that coincided with the things you’re referencing. None of this makes any sense.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

None of us know how much time he is spending on other things.

Unless he's missing training and matches to do these other things, which he obviously isn't, none of us should be bothered by it or feel the need to wonder and ask questions.

And yes, it was equally stupid when people would say Lingard was underperforming on the pitch because he was too focused on his clothing line, or last season's classic "Pogba is dancing on social media but he claims to be too injured to play for United!!" conspiracy theories.

There's almost definitely an overlap between the "Rashford should stick to football" and "Pogba should focus on football instead of getting a new haircut every week" lot.

 

[9 Stone Elvis]

Unless he's missing training and matches to do these other things, which he obviously isn't, none of us should be bothered by it or feel the need to wonder and ask questions.

And yes, it was equally stupid when people would say Lingard was underperforming on the pitch because he was too focused on his clothing line, or last season's classic "Pogba is dancing on social media but he claims to be too injured to play for United!!" conspiracy theories.

There's almost definitely an overlap between the "Rashford should stick to football" and "Pogba should focus on football instead of getting a new haircut every week" lot.

Im glad that we have now reset the bar for player focus to be nothing more than not missing training or matches.

My point about Lingard and Pogba is simply to refute the idea that questions about outside activities are only being asked of Rashford. They have been asked of virtually every player with outside interests that are in the public eye.

 

[Bebestation]

Can we delete this thread? Talk about his performances in his performances thread.

There is no cult of United players - we just have a bunch of hateful success fans than can’t hold an erection in place when we don’t have success.

 

[9 Stone Elvis]

Stay classy eh. Irony overload there.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Can we delete this thread? Talk about his performances in his performances thread.

There is no cult of United players - we just have a bunch of hateful success dribblers than can’t hold an erection in place when we don’t have success.

Exactly the kind of post a Rashford cultist would post…

 

[Bebestation]

Exactly the kind of post a Rashford cultist would post…

The same could be said about your post tbh

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

Im glad that we have now reset the bar for player focus to be nothing more than not missing training or matches.

Unless you're going to argue that he's playing crap because he's too distracted thinking about feeding kids while he's literally on the pitch, then yes, that's the bar and everything else is baseless speculation.

When you say "I wonder if Rashford is spending too much time on his activism at the expense of his football because he's off form and we don't know what he's doing in his time off the field - just questioning, mind, not actually speculating - although I also wonder if Ferguson might not have been happy with how much time his activities take up - just wondering, I don't know!", you're doing the same thing as the guy on the last page (saying the player's "mindset" has changed and he's started strutting around the pitch now that he's Marcus Rashford MBE) while adding that last bit to protect yourself from the expected response.

"I wonder if X might be true because I don't know if it isn't true" is a useless thing to say.

And since this thread is showing no signs of getting any better, I'm going to re-quote this:

Documentary proof that he was one of the top 10 most productive players in Europe last season.

Anybody who thinks Rashford is better Messi or Kane is overrating him. But I don't think anybody is. Hardly the stuff of 'cults'.

If somebody thinks that Rashford's end product doesn't tell the whole story, that's fair enough. But it does tell enough of a story to make a strong case for him being a top class player.

on the off-chance someone wants to reply to it without playing any of the following cards

1: if you criticise Rashford apparently you are a Tory sympathiser who believes footballers should know their place

2: if you criticise Rashford by arguing he's not a top-7-level player because he looks incompetent on the ball and refuse to engage with rebuttals, you are a victim of the cult

 

[9 Stone Elvis]

Unless you're going to argue that he's playing crap because he's too distracted thinking about feeding kids while he's literally on the pitch, then yes, that's the bar and everything else is baseless speculation.

When you say "I wonder if Rashford is spending too much time on his activism at the expense of his football because he's off form and we don't know what he's doing in his time off the field - just questioning, mind, not actually speculating - although I also wonder if Ferguson might not have been happy with how much time his activities take up - just wondering, I don't know!", you're doing the same thing as the guy on the last page (saying the player's "mindset" has changed and he's started strutting around the pitch now that he's Marcus Rashford MBE) while adding that last bit to protect yourself from the expected response.

"I wonder if X might be true because I don't know if it isn't true" is a useless thing to say.

And since this thread is showing no signs of getting any better, I'm going to re-quote this:



on the off-chance someone wants to reply to it without playing any of the following cards

1: if you criticise Rashford apparently you are a Tory sympathiser who believes footballers should know their place

2: if you criticise Rashford by arguing he's not a top-7-level player because he looks incompetent on the ball and refuse to engage with rebuttals, you are a victim of the cult

To take your second point first...

1 - was actually said to me when I criticised Rashford.

The premise of what I have been saying, me, not the thread or the thread starter or the thread title, has been that Rashford isnt top class in my opinion. he is a good player who pulls decent numbers but has had a relatively average to poor season. I have also said that I dont think he has progressed as hoped thus far. I have also said its possible he will. OK? That is my opinion. It is also my opinion that it becomes harder to criticise his on field performance because of his off field successes. This is backed up by being told "What, he should know his place?" and all that guff.

I dont KNOW if his off the field activities are taking his eye off the ball but it seems to me that its not a unreasonable question to ask as it has been of many many many players down the history of the game who also incidentally managed to get on the team bus on time and attend training too.

The problem here is that anyone who offers criticism or any form of less than glowing viewpoint is met with posts like yours and the irony is as much as you have a go at me for saying that Im adding stuff in to "protect myself" I am faced with people saying "If all you were doing was criticising him it would be fine its this talk of the cult" etc etc when the vast majority of people and certainly me haven't mentioned "the cult of Rashford" anywhere and HAVE just offered criticism.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

1 - was actually said to me when I criticised Rashford.

Would love to see a quote, as it's highly unlikely someone (edit: someone who isn't a loon) would call you a Tory sympathizer for saying Rashford isn't a top class player.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

Worth watching this entire thing for anyone who genuinely wants to argue Rashford has had a "poor" season. And also for anyone who doesn't (want to) see what he does better now vs. 5 years / 300 games ago. For a lot of the season, virtually every goal we score stems from something he or Fernandes did.

Twenty goals, a lot of them excellently timed runs, first touches and finishes (while the usual complaint in multiple threads here is that he's always offside or walking around, lacks the basics of ball control, and misses sitters). A whole bunch of crosses to Cavani that peak Becks would be proud of (and that Rashford would never have been capable of executing even two years ago). Two highlight-reel through passes to Greenwood and Fernandes that are straight out of Pogba or Fernandes's own books. The goals against Brighton and Newcastle and assist against Burnley where he leaves defenders looking silly.

 

[Threesus]

Worth watching this entire thing for anyone who genuinely wants to argue Rashford has had a "poor" season. And also for anyone who doesn't (want to) see what he does better now vs. 5 years / 300 games ago. For a lot of the season, virtually every goal we score stems from something he or Fernandes did.

Twenty goals, a lot of them excellently timed runs, first touches and finishes (while the usual complaint in multiple threads here is that he's always offside or walking around, lacks the basics of ball control, and misses sitters). A whole bunch of crosses to Cavani that peak Becks would be proud of (and that Rashford would never have been capable of executing even two years ago). Two highlight-reel through passes to Greenwood and Fernandes that are straight out of Pogba or Fernandes's own books. The goals against Brighton and Newcastle and assist against Burnley where he leaves defenders looking silly.

you know people will argue that’s because he played the most minutes, which is fair I suppose. In that case, it falls on OGS to rotate the attackers properly. His insistence on playing certain players too many minutes is not going to work, especially when players play so many games these days.

I am hoping that getting sancho will lead to increased competition for attacking spots in the team which could only be healthy. Right now, marcus’s competition is basically a raw dan James, a disappointing martial and a midfielder playing on the wing(pogba) who doesn’t put up enough numbers to justify a place on the wing. We simply need more quality attackers in the squad.

he certainly needs to improve, but people here act like he has been trash during his whole stint here. He has been very important to whatever trophies we managed to get post-SAF and likely will be a major part of the squad going forward.

If we were a serious team and our owners had ambition, we would have gone and try to get a coach who will program our players to function on the pitch. Instead we are stuck with a coach who to me, hasn’t got the required nous and tactics to turn this ship around. The Europa final did it for me. At least when klopp lost the Europa league final, his side scored some goals. 2 shots on target in a EL final is abysmal.

 

[9 Stone Elvis]

Would love to see a quote, as it's highly unlikely someone (edit: someone who isn't a loon) would call you a Tory sympathizer for saying Rashford isn't a top class player.

Im not disputing it was a "loon" but as you aren't making any distinction on one side Im not doing it on the other either.

 

[9 Stone Elvis]

Worth watching this entire thing for anyone who genuinely wants to argue Rashford has had a "poor" season. And also for anyone who doesn't (want to) see what he does better now vs. 5 years / 300 games ago. For a lot of the season, virtually every goal we score stems from something he or Fernandes did.

Twenty goals, a lot of them excellently timed runs, first touches and finishes (while the usual complaint in multiple threads here is that he's always offside or walking around, lacks the basics of ball control, and misses sitters). A whole bunch of crosses to Cavani that peak Becks would be proud of (and that Rashford would never have been capable of executing even two years ago). Two highlight-reel through passes to Greenwood and Fernandes that are straight out of Pogba or Fernandes's own books. The goals against Brighton and Newcastle and assist against Burnley where he leaves defenders looking silly.

I can only comment for myself but I have never disputed anything thats contained in any highlight reel. He is capable of being brilliant and in many ways thats the point. He goes from the sublime to the ridiculous. If ALL he did was the bad stuff then it would just be a case of "not good enough.......next!" but thats not the case. What frustrates me is that the bad stuff he does just often looks dreadful. he runs into players, he tries to take on 4 defenders, he makes poor judgements and it does cost the team. When Fernades does this (and he does quite often) you can see what he was trying to do much of the time, but with Rashford it often looks greedy and ill judged and it that maturity that he seems to lack and its where playing 300 games IS a bit relevant in my eyes because I would expect him to be learning.

I would love nothing more than him to be playing brilliantly for us next season a flying trio of Greenwood, Rashford and Sancho would have to be potentially incredibly exciting next season, supported by Cavani.

 

[stw2022]

Name a player that doesn’t have a YouTube highlight reel that makes him look amazing

 

[Ali Dia]

This is an excellent and very fair article/analysis on Marcus.

https://thebusbybabe.sbnation.com/p...s-rashford-position?__twitter_impression=true
.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

Name a player that doesn’t have a YouTube highlight reel that makes him look amazing

It's not a player highlight reel, chap. It's every single goal the second-best team in the country scored over the season, and one of the players involved in a quarter of them is someone you think looks incompetent on the ball.

Next.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

you know people will argue that’s because he played the most minutes, which is fair I suppose.

Sure. But that argument also applies to Fernandes who has played roughly 400 more minutes than Rashford in all competitions for 7 more goals and 2 more assists. And 13 of his goals are penalties to Rashford's 1.

And yet no one will try and argue with a straight face that Fernandes has been poor over the season. Because he hasn't been at the club long enough for people to have formed agendas that they can't let go of at the expense of acknowledging they got it wrong (on the Internet! Perish the thought)

 

[Threesus]

Sure. But that argument also applies to Fernandes who has played roughly 400 more minutes than Rashford in all competitions for 7 more goals and 2 more assists. And 13 of his goals are penalties to Rashford's 1.

And yet no one will try and argue with a straight face that Fernandes has been poor over the season. Because he hasn't been at the club long enough for people to have formed agendas that they can't let go of at the expense of acknowledging they got it wrong (on the Internet! Perish the thought)

Are you sure people haven’t formed agendas about him? You would be surprised to know that many United fans dislike Bruno.

In fact, there is not a single player at United whom our fans don’t have an agenda against.

 

[Ali Dia]

Read the article above lads. It’s very enlightening. There’s no cult. Just people who can and can’t see his current limitations and our over reliance and misuse of him.

 

[He'sRaldo]

This is an excellent and very fair article/analysis on Marcus.

https://thebusbybabe.sbnation.com/p...s-rashford-position?__twitter_impression=true
.

Good write-up, that's why I say we haven't yet found his best position. Don't have extensive knowledge on all the statistics used, but the observations based on watching him play I do agree with.

 

[Desert Eagle]

This is an excellent and very fair article/analysis on Marcus.

https://thebusbybabe.sbnation.com/p...s-rashford-position?__twitter_impression=true
.

Cheers. Good read.

 

[DFreshKing]

Yeah, well said. Forget using his profile to force the corrupt govt into feeding hungry kids. feck em.
What's important is kicking a ball around a field.

While I applaud the effort it's a bit rich if they then go to great lengths to avoid paying tax that could fund the govt feeding hungry kids

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Can we delete this thread? Talk about his performances in his performances thread.

There is no cult of United players - we just have a bunch of hateful success fans than can’t hold an erection in place when we don’t have success.

feck that, I am free to believe in Marcusism Rashyanity.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Read the article above lads. It’s very enlightening. There’s no cult. Just people who can and can’t see his current limitations and our over reliance and misuse of him.

That’s a good find. Worth while putting in the Rashford performance thread.

I’ve been saying for a while I think for us he is better on the right as he just seems more involved as a team player than on the left. On the left he is basically Jamie Taart, but what is pointed out there is that he carries more threat when he can run from outside to in and go centrally.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

Are you sure people haven’t formed agendas about him? You would be surprised to know that many United fans dislike Bruno.

In fact, there is not a single player at United whom our fans don’t have an agenda against.

I'm sure there are loads that don't like Bruno. But he wasn't at the club when he was a raw teenager, so there isn't a subset of fans who decided four years ago that this guy will not make it at the club, will never be good enough, and is just another academy player that gets overhyped.

When said academy player actually does get better to the point that he's neck-and-neck with the best player in the team and a lot of the best in the league, these people have immense trouble accepting that they might have gotten it wrong. So they double down the way STW is doing in this entire thread. And there were a couple before it this season - "Rashford and Martial are a problem" was a major highlight.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

Read the article above lads. It’s very enlightening. There’s no cult. Just people who can and can’t see his current limitations and our over reliance and misuse of him.

I'm pretty sure this is another guy on record earlier in this thread making up his own goalscoring numbers for Rashford because he was mad that the guy was out of form at the end of the season. Funny to see him say the problem is "just people who can and can't see the player's limitations".

 

[Roane]

Yeah travelling and being part of the matchday squad is not a "rest" in any way shape or form, you have clearly never played football at any level. A "rest" is a fecking rest, not full training, preparing for a match both physically and mentally, travelling for a match and being ready to come into the match at any given time. A "rest" is where we literally do not see that player for a few games - so no, he did not a break in any way shape or form.

If a player, however important they are, is badly out of form or unfit then playing them to the point where they contribute nothing at all means they genuinely are replaceable. If he had been playing unfit but still contributing you'd say fair enough to a degree, but given his form got the point where he was genuinely terrible at times then yeah there was no reason we couldn't have given him a couple of weeks off and given his gametime to James, Amad, Greenwood etc.

There was an interesting conversation during the season about resting players and what that constitutes. Man UTD players were oart of the discussion between players, former players/managers.

They were unanimous in saying that a rest for a footballer doesn't even have to be missing a whole match. Playing 60 minutes and being substituted was enough.

Man UTD not doing this for likes of Bruno and/or Rashy was something they couldn't believe wasn't being done.

Now I don't know the science but it was unanimous that resting doesn't mean not playing. Resting was about better management of time in games.

 

[Ali Dia]

I'm pretty sure this is another guy on record earlier in this thread making up his own goalscoring numbers for Rashford because he was mad that the guy was out of form at the end of the season. Funny to see him say the problem is "just people who can and can't see the player's limitations".

Apologies for missing out on the absolutely huge difference between 2 and 4 league goals in 2021. League winning stuff. He’s just misunderstood. It’s you driving this “cult” thread most days while simultaneously complaining about it and the irony clearly isn’t lost on you. I’m not getting stuck spending another afternoon arguing about Rashford. The article perfectly sums up how I feel about him and conveys it better than I or you ever could.

 

[Ali Dia]

That’s a good find. Worth while putting in the Rashford performance thread.

I’ve been saying for a while I think for us he is better on the right as he just seems more involved as a team player than on the left. On the left he is basically Jamie Taart, but what is pointed out there is that he carries more threat when he can run from outside to in and go centrally.

i don’t get the reference so I googled him but it seems like I’d have to watch the show to get the actual gist. Is it worth watching? Do any of you remember dream team? The girls in that used to torture my dreams as a young man

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

When you get called out for saying something wrong, just own up to it and move on, chap.

"Oooo, it was 4 goals and not 2! That's league winning stuff!!!!" - no, no one said it was league-winning stuff. This is the same thing STW does, make up imaginary points to argue against.

Have a nice Friday.

 

[big rons sovereign]

While I applaud the effort it's a bit rich if they then go to great lengths to avoid paying tax that could fund the govt feeding hungry kids

Like any of that money would go any further than Tory pockets.
How much have they syphoned off in the last 11 years under the guise of austerity? Billions.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

i don’t get the reference so I googled him but it seems like I’d have to watch the show to get the actual gist. Is it worth watching? Do any of you remember dream team? The girls in that used to torture my dreams as a young man

I watched it this week and it’s fecking brilliant. So funny. Jamie Taart is basically the best player on the team and scorer but he doesn't pass and just goes solo most of the time ignoring players in better positions. Hampering the team overall.

 

[Ali Dia]

You’re using up all your posts in here saying the same stuff every single day. You’ll probably eventually get promoted on the back of this thread but you can still take a break, let the odd post you disagree with slip through like most of the rest of us do. We all know your opinion and at the end of the day people don’t have to and enough people clearly don’t share the same opinion as you as to make it a legitimate conversation.

My opinion holds that Rashford is currently not hard working, unpredictable or consistent enough to lead our attack if we want to win a league or a CL. He also doesn’t have a best position which is strange after so many games.I think given his decent numbers and actual below average, timid performances against the poorer teams who sit deep throughout the season is a discussion worth having.. Yes he could still improve and adapt but he could also get worse. What if his workrate decreases even more in the future and Ole remains as blinkered to the possibility of rotating him?

If he’s our best and most influential attacking player then we could be in trouble and back battling for top 4 before we know it. If Cavani hadn’t stepped up we almost certainly would have fallen off if we were depending on Rashford in 2021.That’s the standard the posters you disagree with are holding him to. They want the club to thrive over any particular players stats or off the pitch interests. Just waiting for Roonster or KM to come in and back you up with which in my opinion from experienced posters is worse than someone who has genuine doubts about Rashford in his current role and just want to talk about it in a calm fashion somewhere other than the performance thread.


Yes I agree there definitely have been some weird takes but you guys laughing at posters and calling them tories or pitting them against hungry kids or whatever is just as bad. It makes those posters who started off trying to make a reasonable point get more extreme and defensive and go off target which is what happened to me the day I incorrectly listed his 2021 goal output as 2 instead of 4 and I actually corrected myself straight after. Still good on ya for remembering one post and forgetting the very next one of mine where I corrected myself and apologised for any confusion of the stats. We both know you’re in here the whole time so I know you saw both posts. Very “agenda” of you to focus on one and totally ignore the other

Have a nice afternoon and good luck with promotion.

 

[roonster09]

They want the club to thrive over any particular players stats or off the pitch interests. Just waiting for Roonster or KM to come in and back you up with which in my opinion from experienced posters is worse than someone who has genuine doubts about Rashford in his current role and just want to talk about it in a calm fashion somewhere other than the performance thread.

Says the guy who can't read even a table or post made up stats, move goal posts just because he doesn't like player

When someone says only 6 players made more goal contributions, you come up with bs like he is at the bottom of the table, because only 7 are listed, but that's the level of nonsense that's posted here.

 

[Ali Dia]

Says the guy who can't read even a table or post made up stats, move goal posts just because he doesn't like player

When someone says only 6 players made more goal contributions, you come up with bs like he is at the bottom of the table, because only 7 are listed, but that's the level of nonsense that's posted here.

By your standards we should be very interested in Wood and Bamford you’ve got even better stats in far worse teams. Totally Incorrect way to look at football but knock yourself out. Thread police are here

 

[LazyRed-Ninja]

I’ve made a thread about Rashford the day of the lost final against VillaReal. My personal conclusion is that Rasford is stuck between the gap of being class and world class and that I doubt that he will become world class. He isn’t a striker and as a left winger he is useful and shown to be able to score goals. He will enter his 7th season at United and only time tell wether he will make the next step.

 

[united_99]

You’re using up all your posts in here saying the same stuff every single day. You’ll probably eventually get promoted on the back of this thread but you can still take a break, let the odd post you disagree with slip through like most of the rest of us do. We all know your opinion and at the end of the day people don’t have to and enough people clearly don’t share the same opinion as you as to make it a legitimate conversation.

My opinion holds that Rashford is currently not hard working, unpredictable or consistent enough to lead our attack if we want to win a league or a CL. He also doesn’t have a best position which is strange after so many games.I think given his decent numbers and actual below average, timid performances against the poorer teams who sit deep throughout the season is a discussion worth having.. Yes he could still improve and adapt but he could also get worse. What if his workrate decreases even more in the future and Ole remains as blinkered to the possibility of rotating him?

If he’s our best and most influential attacking player then we could be in trouble and back battling for top 4 before we know it. If Cavani hadn’t stepped up we almost certainly would have fallen off if we were depending on Rashford in 2021.That’s the standard the posters you disagree with are holding him to. They want the club to thrive over any particular players stats or off the pitch interests. Just waiting for Roonster or KM to come in and back you up with which in my opinion from experienced posters is worse than someone who has genuine doubts about Rashford in his current role and just want to talk about it in a calm fashion somewhere other than the performance thread.


Yes I agree there definitely have been some weird takes but you guys laughing at posters and calling them tories or pitting them against hungry kids or whatever is just as bad. It makes those posters who started off trying to make a reasonable point get more extreme and defensive and go off target which is what happened to me the day I incorrectly listed his 2021 goal output as 2 instead of 4 and I actually corrected myself straight after. Still good on ya for remembering one post and forgetting the very next one of mine where I corrected myself and apologised for any confusion of the stats. We both know you’re in here the whole time so I know you saw both posts. Very “agenda” of you to focus on one and totally ignore the other

Have a nice afternoon and good luck with promotion.

I have to admire the time and energy you invest in the Rashford threads. Do you never get bored of it?
I found Martial‘s season extremely bad and I can’t wait until Pogba either leaves the club or finally shows beyond just 2-3 months per season why we paid a club record fee for him and why he is on ridiculous wages. But I just don’t see the point in writing the same boring stuff about him on a daily basis.
You don’t rate Rashford (for whatever reason, blah blah, you don’t need to write it again).
I rate him highly and feel if he is our problem then at least 20 other players in our squad are a much bigger problem (again for whatever reason).
But don’t act like your opinion is more valid than that of people who rate him.

 

[roonster09]

By your standards we should be very interested in Wood and Bamford you’ve got even better stats in far worse teams. Totally Incorrect way to look at football but knock yourself out. Thread police are here

Thread police

I didn't even bother to post here because of the shit posted by likes of you and that stw guy, the only reason I replied is because you posted about me in your post.

Wood and Bamford have better stats? Getting ready for the mental gymnastics from Ali Dia

 

[Ali Dia]

Thread police

I didn't even bother to post here because of the shit posted by likes of you and that stw guy, the only reason I replied is because you posted about me in your post.

Wood and Bamford have better stats? Getting ready for the mental gymnastics from Ali Dia

Speaking of mental gymnastics Look who posts most out of anyone in here. I’ll give you a clue- it’s you with 100 posts. Comfortably more than double mine.

Indeed