Has this season hit rock bottom for you yet? If no, what, in particular, will be the final nails in the coffin?

Oldyella

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We are still somehow in a chase for 4th and in some cups, so as depressing as things have been this year, rock bottom feels a way off yet.
 

clarkydaz

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this could be a week where we offer Ashley Young a new contract, he rejects it, get knocked out of the cup at home by Wolves and then tonked at Anfield next Sunday, which could see the scousers sack another United manager on their way to winning the league
 

Infra-red

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Liverpool - City, League & CL wins while we finish somewhere in the vicinity of Palace/Sheffield United and sack a club legend, will be the low point, surely. We'll have to wait till May for all of that.
 

noodlehair

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Not sure I take much from a Carling Cup game against a City side who are still good enough to make Muppets out of any other team in the country when they feel like it. They've handed out worse humiliations to Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal etc. In recent years even when those team have been at full strength...and I don't think anyone is pretending we are better than the level those sides are at.

Rock bottom will be when you see the players clearly with no fight in them. It happened under Jose, LVG and Moyes. Haven't seen it under Ole yet.

Unfortunately our squad in an increasingly worse state. I don't think that's entirely Ole's fault but it is certainly someone's fault as our squad management has been atrocious under 4 different managers now. Ole also has to take some responsibility with his stubbornness over this "right player for the club" nonsense. When you don't have enough players to field a competent team and keep picking players who aren't able to offer anything, the "right player" is anyone who helps change that. For example, literally any midfielder above championship level.

Rock bottom if it happens is still to come, so I reckon anyone who's already being dramatic now might just want to stop watching for their own sake.
 

FattyFooty

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Before the last couple of games, we did our best of the season. It's not cool loosing to City. (especially like that)

But we are closer to 4th, and that's improvements from the beginning of the season.
 

cruseofried

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tl:dr: When is enough for you - what are your personal triggers that say a manager's time is up?
I enjoyed the depth of your post and the various perceptions in it. My own feeling is that we are now on our 4th manager in six seasons, two of which were reportedly top notch and multiple trophy winners with big teams in the past. One other a very experienced Premier league manager with Everton. During these phases we have continued to spend quite heavily but to little avail and having changed complete backroom staffs to suit each manager.

Now that we are one year into our fourth manager we are in what is possibly our most perilous condition due to a variety of problems
depending on whom you listen to. My own perception agrees with yours in that we need to stabilise as much as we can and as you say "buy intelligently" for the future. The situation is going to get worse yet this time around but sacking another manager and having another complete support staff change around is not going to improve our current condition which is proffered as hopeless by professionally angry types on some allegedly authentic voice of the fans channels.

The future is not rosy and will not be cured overnight, we need to suck up these lean times and split them out, support the efforts until they improve or not, given that the Hierarchy support the manager, he can be fairly judged on the results he achieves. Until then, it seems totally unjust and perhaps a little naive to think otherwise looking at the mess he inherited.
 

DixieDean

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I'm an Everton fan. It's not just hit rock bottom for me, I've had the people's elbow as well.
 

daveskimufc

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I dont believe i could feel worse about my club at the minute. I dont believe we will buy anyone this window, i dont believe we will finish top 4, i don't believe we will get past wolves in the fa cup, the europa league is keeping our season "alive" which is depressing on a whole other level.

I just want to see a bit of ambition, sign 2 midfielders minimum, have a consistent formation and at least some identity on the field, do we press? Stand off? Counter?

Poch in the summer, demanding new players.
 

Alabaster Codify7

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Looking at the upcoming fixtures after Norwich, I can honestly see us around 12th by March. Injuries and terrible coaching being the root cause. The board will act soon. Probably poorly again by appointing a competent manager and not backing him.
 

Popcorn

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Following a football team is made more enjoyable by the concept of hope. I am glad that there are supporters that still have this for what we are seeing on the pitch. I am struggling in this regard.

Before the City and Spurs games I was thinking we were in danger of getting dragged firmly into the bottom half of the table. Hope was raised by the wins and the prospect of signing an exciting talented striker. Although we sit fifth, and in all competitions, I have lost a lot of hope due to the result against Watford, the injuries and potential of no new signings. Not rock bottom yet, but heading there at a pace.
 

Foxbatt

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Certainly if we lose to Norwich at home would be rock bottom and I do not think Ole will survive that. But I hope that we win and I am confident that we will beat Norwich at OT. Realistically if that does not happen everyone including the whole coaching staff and Woodward should resign too.
 

Jaqen H'ghar

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Last night is being overblown slightly I feel, it's not the first time in the last 10 years City have battered us and while the headlines point to a gulf between the two sides they forget we beat them on their own ground and were excellent in most areas of the game on that day so yeah batterings by City can happen, they suck but it is what it is and I wouldn't put it past us to win at least one of our 2 remaining games against them this season

As for the point of the thread I've said all along review it at the end of the season I don't see anyone being able to do anything with this squad with the injuries which needs to be said are crippling Solskjaer
many fans now are younger and wont remember the bad times in the 70,s and 80,s when we were crap and Liverpool won everything... they will only have known the success through Fergies long long reign. No one has a Devine right to success. You have to earn it...

Fergie came in and changed everything from top to bottom, the youth policies, recruitment, training,, mentality etc etc... he is so missed. We need the next modern day Fergie... but remember it took Fergie a few years to get any success and many chanted Fergie out fergie out for 3 years. .... if the club had bowed down to supporters feelings fergie would have been sacked after 2/3 years and we wouldn’t have had such a glorious period Of success...

Food for thought.
In a thread with many good posts (and its fair share of hysterical drivel), these sensible posts stood out for me.
 

Strelok

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I'd love to get on board a fan protest, problem is that the majority of the match going fans are "top reds" - part of the naive problem. Singing support of Olé when he's clarly a poor manager. Same people sang for Moyes, LVG & José when they were clearly failing. A mate that sits in the Stretford End told me when someone gave Phil Jones abuse the other night for... well, for bing Phil Jones - being continually roasted, flakey in defence and injuring himself - someone else gave him guff that he should support "all the lads in red jerseys". Apparently it almose got physical.
I can't stress enough that I will always support Utd, but it's not "not" supporting the team by going against the current regime.



Exactly, they're rotten from the top of the Glazer's odd, balding heads to the studs on Jessie Shinguard's two left feet.
Wow, that's scary tbh.

We're absolutely doomed, and we deserve it I guess.
 

KrasHammerhand

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I actually would feel worse to lose to Norwich. We seem to be able to play Liverpool very hard, it is the lesser teams that we shit the bed with. I could see us easily lose 3-1, 4-2 this weekend. Lots of holes right now, no one is coming in this window. It will still get darker my friends
 

Andersonson

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We're better off than in years in my book.

Rashford scoring, Scott as become good. Same with Fred. We got a right back now that can only get better and we have a CB thats done ok his first season and will get better with time.

We've gotten rid of players that are terrible and we continue to do so. We're in fighting position for 4th and we have some serious youngsters coming through.

Next season, if Ole gets three more players in, we can actually be a top team again.

The squad we have is dire if you look at all of them, but some are actually pretty good and for that Ole deserves credit. He has developed the players I had hopes for.


In my book the rebuilding is actually looking bright. Much better than under LVG or Mou.

If Williams and Greenwood keeps on progressing we could have a good team next year.

DDG
AWB - Maguire - New CB - Williams/Shaw
Scott/Fred - New CM
Pogba / New AM
New RW/James Rashford Martial

The mood in here though is like we've been relegated, dispite doing an ok season considering everything after SAF retired.
 

croadyman

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Nothing this season could be as rock bottom as Mourinho at Anfield last season. To go to Liverpool and show less ambition to score than a minnow in the FA Cup would was utterly embarrassing.
Hate to say it but we will going there a week on Sunday with a worst team than last season. This could be one of our biggest league humiliations if they are in the mood
 

Web of Bissaka

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tl:dr: When is enough for you - what are your personal triggers that say a manager's time is up?
When the manager continue being ridiculous and naive in decisions makings and/or actions.

Moyes - first few games.
LVG - early half of 2nd season.
Mou - 3rd season with Lukaku, Matic and McT, etc.
Ole - Lingard shall always play. 2nd season. Repetitive types of perrormances showing no improvements at all.
 

Shakesy

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It is a beautiful day where I live, so, inspired by my sudden onset of giddy optimism, I've set out to find something to be happy about.

United is not playing today!

:)
 

Greck

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Young dumping us is an "oh my God we've become the deadwood" moment
 

oreon

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Young dumping us is an "oh my God we've become the deadwood" moment
This has to be the most humilaiting moment in the past 6 years. It's beyond pathetic we are scrambling to keep him but worse is he rejected us despite being captain. It's like every season we are playing the game how low can we go
 

Havak

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We’ve already gone out to City
Pretty much, but I'd probably have rather we didn't score or even lost 0-4... That lifeline of a goal makes me think we'll go full strength and probably risk players we shouldn't to save grace.

Will hurt us in the long-run chasing the dragon.
 

Ady87

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I felt like this watching us against Wolves. With all the best intentions in the world, we were attempting to play like some budget Barcelona. It was if every attack was a visible cliché with wave after wave of the same poor give and go with no return pass on. We are light years behind the best sides in the world. The baffling bit is how we managed to turn it on against City and Spurs in the league, and Liverpool.

Matic declining quicker than expected, no Pogba and not replacing Lukaku are all glaringly obvious issues.
 

Reiver

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It's bad but post SAF period has taught me that we can always reach new lows. Worst case scenario would be some more tankings like the other night, winning nothing and Ole still being in charge going into the summer transfer window. Oh, and Lingard's clothing range being a success.
 

Lentwood

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Some posters are so dramatic :lol:

We've had injuries to key players, have fielded XIs who consistently rank amongst the youngest in the league and yet we're still 5th and within a win or two of the CL spots

Some people honestly....it's crazy how we lose one or two games and we're in crisis. We've been 'in crisis' for 15yrs....it's just that some of you have only noticed this when results started suffering!
 

Pexbo

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A 35 year old that has been described by many fans as deadwood that should be shifted as soon as possible who is currently third choice for one position and second choice for another has the chance of joining a club that might win a league title this season and is probably offering him a 2 or 3 year contract and the supporters that have been throwing torrents of abuse at how bad and that he is deadwood and should be shifted as soon as possible are now referencing him wanting to leave as a sign that this club has hit rock bottom.

The fact we want him to stay shows how thin our squad is, the fact he wants to leave shows that he knows he's finished here and he wants to scrape whatever he can out of his career and has an excellent opportunity to do just that.

35 year old Ashley Young wanting to leave apparently is more indicative than the likes of Rashford, Martial, De Gea, McTominay, Maguire, Wan-Bissaka, Greenwood, Taunzebe all being committed to long term contracts with the club.

When one of the above suddenly declares they want to join another club and want the club to let them go, then I'll agree. Young's situation is unique amongst the squad.
 

MrBest

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Really depends on the definition of rock bottom. In terms of position in the league and our cup progress, we look okay.

In real terms, we are pretty pathetic. Since March, roughly a 30% win rate? The style of football has not really improved, i still do not see a philosophy (to the contrary of Ole in fans). We have made a few okay signings but in all honesty the fundamental problems still exists, poor midfield and no right winger. I think our overall squad is worse than last year, only Greenwood has been given a chance out of the youth. Future thinking, i cannot see how this changes unless we buy some experienced players. I still do not understand the obsession with buying young hungry players when we clearly lack experience everywhere and have too much youth that cannot even get in the team. We have no leaders, at all, and our fringe players now want out ( Matic Young and Lingard). I think Ole is largely to blame for about 40% of this mess which comes down to poor coaching ability, abysmal tactics, slow reactions in games and a lack of signings (playing on the point he made that he chose not sign anyone - how long does it really take to sign the players you want, the answer is you need to know these players and I am shocked that given United have tens of scouts all over the world he does not have a clue).

Part of the blame also falls on Ed and the board. The clubs structure is so bad that we were promised a director of football last year and before an appointment of a new manager but we are still are not any closer to this. I actually am one of the few that believe that investment has been made but the decisions made with this money have been near pathetic. The other appalling thing that i truly believe is Ed takes forever (or whoever deals with transfers) to get a deal done. We clearly do one deal at a time, scout, propose, bid (x10) and then the contract. It is far too long.

Other points, the amount of leaks from the club is pretty awful from new managers to proposed players, we can never be a step ahead. There also seems to be a bigger divide amongst fans on opinions which has resulted in assults to youtubers. I don't personally watch these guys but i belive everyone has there own right to an opinion.

The club is absolutely rotten to the core, top to bottom. In my view Man united is literally at rock bottom and it has taken just 6.5 years to undo 27 years of Fergies rule. In my view, we are at least 10 years from challenging the title, unless things change of course. In this time, it is likely that the Scouse will be ahead of us in titles which would hurt and burn. That is rock bottom people.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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Pretty much at this moment. It all feel pretty depressing. There is still some minor transfer window hope, but I doubt we will do anything.

In theory the cups are all still alive, but I have 0 confidence in us with all the injuries and problems we have to win anything at all.
 

Hawks2008

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Rashford, Pogba, McT out for the next few months, Fred basically a 1 man midfield, attack down to the barebones. Without 2 or even 3 signings this window I don't see us getting near top 4 or silverware this year and we'll be in an even worse spot to attract the level of player we need in the summer. All of this will be overseen by 2 incompetent men, Woody and Ole.

Its looking grim.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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Rashford, Pogba, McT out for the next few months, Fred basically a 1 man midfield, attack down to the barebones. Without 2 or even 3 signings this window I don't see us getting near top 4 or silverware this year and we'll be in an even worse spot to attract the level of player we need in the summer. All of this will be overseen by 2 incompetent men, Woody and Ole.

Its looking grim.
Do you know when Pogba might be back? With Mctominay I heard late February before and I have no clue about Rashford.
 

DomesticTadpole

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I checked now. Says 17 and 23 February for Pogba and Mctominay on physioroom. If true we will have them ready for Europa league fixtures at least if we can knock Brugge out (not confident at all about that).
At least we know Scott will be focused. It will all depend if Paul is and is more bothered about not getting injured before the summer. If we do get past Brugge there are even trickier teams ahead.
 

Sky1981

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Some serious drama queens in the thread. I'd love to know what the average age is of the people that have posted in it.

5th in the league with a decent shout at 4th. Still in all of the cups - just about. Everything to play for and every match is important. I've seen far worse than this. Am I happy with everything - no, but lets keep some perspective for crying out loud.
5th is flattering.

34 in 22 games is more grim.

Any other season we'd be midtable. We're lucky this year is a weird one. We're closer to 20th position than we are to 1st.
 

The Uncle of All Uncles

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I expected it to be bad, but I didn't expect all the other teams (especially Man City) to be so poor. Watching Liverpool march their way towards 100+ points, possibly with an Invincibles tag and hell, maybe another CL too while they're at it is really rubbing it in.

I've always felt that Utd were finished until new owners arrive, and for that reason I'm expecting to write-off the next 5-10 years until the change in ownership is achieved. Sadly, by that stage Utd will need to become a sugar-daddy club to have any hope of competing. But, that's where it is, and we're all just going to have to get used to it.