Have City rebuilt their midfield better than Utd have?

pocco said:
Obviously they both put in the effort, but Fernandes in particular is not somebody who is a midfield powerhouse. He's more akin to Bernardo Silva. But my point is that they are both technically gifted rather than physically, and I think it is these traits they have been signed for. Like you said earlier, they are generally risk takers with their passing at previous clubs, but the ability to make these passes translates well into turning them into more controlled figures, as they are tidy under pressure and obviously great on the ball.

I don't think Enzo will completely neuter them, but I think they will still dominate most games.
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They will dominate games because they are atacked everywhere. But Anderson and Fernandes are still physical and they like early passes, they like to risk possession with direct players roo.
 
I appreciate it may not be exactly what you are asking but I’m not sure if these guys start together every week. I’d argue mainoo is as good if not potentially better than any of the six mentioned which is the most important thing when we actually start playing matches with all fit and available.
 
Oranges038 said:
Probably, but it doesn't work out they'll just do it again next year.
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This is why it's pointless using City as the benchmark for anything. There's no major consequence to them spending big on a dud - they know they can replace them with another big money signing within a season or two.

Had any other club in the league spent the amount that City did on Grealish, and gotten the same performance level in return, it would've been a much bigger deal. City have since added two 60+ million players in the same position, though, and it hasn't made a dent in their ability to make signings elsewhere.

To be honest, I'm far less impressed by the current PSG side than most people for the same reason. Obviously, they're a great team but I think the fact that they can make big money signings with essentially no risk involved diminishes their accomplishments.
 
Overhaul FC said:
We genuinely have idiots in charge. These guys are nowhere near best in class to not see clear good deals in Andres and Sangare.
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Does this extend to Liverpool city and Chelsea too? They were all in the hunt for midfielders of this profile
 
Assuming both teams play a 433 or 4321 with one more attacking midfielder, we have to realise Kobbie Mainoo and Bruno Fernandes will always start for us, for them that will be Enzo Fernandes (Cherki) and Elliott Anderson in a way. There's not a huge gulf. Bouaddi isn't much better currently than Tielemans/Baleba/Santos I'd say and we also have Mount. So.. well..

It's not all doom and gloom.
 
Tompo said:
I appreciate it may not be exactly what you are asking but I’m not sure if these guys start together avert week. I’d argue mainoo is as good if not potentially better than any of the six mentioned.
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I do think by the end of the season it will be clear that we have the best individual central midfielder in the city for the first time in years. Which is nice
 
Overhaul FC said:
Are City, Chelsea and Liverpool short of midfielders? Did they spend too little in recent years?
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Yes city spent 100m on a 19 year old kid and then splashed out 125m on Enzo who is pretty overrated

Liverpool are playing an academy kid in their midfield at times after losing Jones and Elliot.

Chelsea tried for camara on final day and fecked it.

Is your problem that we aren't dick comparing in fees or that we aren't spending well? It sounds the former in which case fair enough. You just want to spend loads of money and don't give a shit about whether it's well spent.
 
100%. Anderson and Enzo are v good signings. They are on a different level and better than Santos Baleba & Tielemans..

Personally for me the money they went for was crazy, but if Utd were able to spend money like that, surely Anderson and Enzo would have been higher up on the list and a preference for Utd

Our signings kind of feel like second choice buys
 
VP89 said:
Yes city spent 100m on a 19 year old kid and then splashed out 125m on Enzo who is pretty overrated

Liverpool are playing an academy kid in their midfield at times after losing Jones and Elliot.

Chelsea tried for camara on final day and fecked it.

Is your problem that we aren't dick comparing in fees or that we aren't spending well? It sounds the former in which case fair enough. You just want to spend loads of money and don't give a shit about whether it's well spent.
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So which part of me suggesting alternative buys which were CHEAPER did you not understand? Or does it just not suit the fake narrative you're trying to create.
 
I think we are closer to them in midfield than we have been in the last 5 years now. The OP question is a bit silly in isolation to be honest as it ignores what these teams have lost.

The fact is that their midfield looks weaker now than a couple of years ago as Rodri is far superior to any of the current lot. On the other hand ours is more of an unknown but if Mainoo really kicks on and Baleba can find his form from a couple of years ago then we’ll have a stronger midfield than last year coupled with better back ups. Then in the advanced role Bruno is considerably better than anyone they have too.

All conjecture though because no one can actually answer this question until at least December or later in the season.
 
EireRed_GS said:
100%. Anderson and Enzo are v good signings. They are on a different level and better than Santos Baleba & Tielemans..

Personally for me the money they went for was crazy, but if Utd were able to spend money like that, surely Anderson and Enzo would have been higher up on the list and a preference for Utd

Our signings kind of feel like second choice buys
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Are Anderson and Enzo on different level to Mainoo and Bruno? That's probably who you should be comparing them to, their two best midfielders vs our two best midfielders.
 
VP89 said:
Does this extend to Liverpool city and Chelsea too? They were all in the hunt for midfielders of this profile
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It never extends to any other club, because United are the worst run club ever and everything about the club is embarrassing.
Or something like that....

Sometimes wonder why these 'fans' actually support United...
 
When something costs that much it rarely meets expectation. So to me Utd have rebuilt better in relation to the value they get from transfers and still have better midfield than last season. However City might have better quality even if they arent worth the money being spent.
 
Overhaul FC said:
We genuinely have idiots in charge. These guys are nowhere near best in class to not see clear good deals in Andres and Sangare.
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Are those 2 deals really more of a sure thing than we got? What makes them more likely to succeed in the long run than Santos and Baleba? It’s a ridiculous thread as no one knows how this is going to turn out. Maybe the question should be asked in a few months. Like I thought Sancho was a sure bet to become one of the best in the league and a few years later his career is basically done so nobody has any clue really if we bought the wrong players and speculating that we have without more data is pointless.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Enzo was that good last season? Didn’t his side finish 10th on 52 points?
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Didn't Bruno finish 15th on 42 points a couple of season ago?

When has team performance ever been a relevant metric in judging individual quality?

I don't like him and I don't think he's worth £125m but he is (annoyingly) a pretty good player, you can count on two hands the amount of better midfielders in the league.
 
No they haven't. Our midfield looks like it could be the best that we have had for a long while, looks to be an improvement.

City lost Rodri and Bernardo Silva. Hard to say that they might improve from that level. They have had to spend fortunes just to try and stay where they were.

Therefore... We win. Well, hopefully anys.
 
kidbob said:
Are those 2 deals really more of a sure thing than we got? What makes them more likely to succeed in the long run than Santos and Baleba? It’s a ridiculous thread as no one knows how this is going to turn out. Maybe the question should be asked in a few months. Like I thought Sancho was a sure bet to become one of the best in the league and a few years later his career is basically done so nobody has any clue really if we bought the wrong players and speculating that we have without more data is pointless.
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Ultimately you're right and time will tell, however those on the big bucks at the club are paid to make these decisions and make them correctly given all the info and training they have.

A supporter like me can say before the window that Fernandes, Sangare and Andres would be perfect for us, and we'll now never know whether they would have been, as they've been snapped up by other clubs. Baleba's profile is limited even if we desperately need some of his qualities, Santos seems an average player to me and considering Mainoo has probably already outshone Tielemans, only one of Baleba and Santos can play alongside him at a time.

We've ultimately only signed one of them to play instead of Casemiro. I can't view that as a great midfield overhaul, nevermind the wider starting lineup overhaul.

We've added one starting 11 position this summer and that's nowhere near good enough, whether you're a supporter or employee, I think that's clear to see for everyone.
 
On paper, yes. Anderson and Fernandez are bigger names than Baleba, Santos and Tielemans. Bouaddi is great talent.

We'll see how it looks on the pitch. Both teams changed midfields a lot so it could take time for it to gel. In our case Mainoo and Bruno have been there before and in theirs it's same with Cherki and Foden.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
It was his poorest season as a United player for me.

You just said Enzo was one of the two best midfielders in the league based on last season?
Wasn’t his Chelsea midfield teammate also much better than him?
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I think you need to work on your reading comprehension.
 
Our midfield 4 cost £150m. Their 4 has cost what, £350m? More maybe?

We're competing with a cheating machine with unlimited cash. It's not a fair fight.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
If we get last seasons version of Baleba we are fecked.
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On the flip side if we get 2 seasons ago Baleba we are cooking. I think this is what it will all boil down to. Which version of Baleba turns up.
2 seasons ago Baleba, Mainoo and Bruno is a top midfield with Tielmans and Santos as back ups.
But if I were to put my house on it I would say Cities midfield rebuild is better obviously.
 
Adz_99 said:
Our midfield 4 cost £150m. Their 4 has cost what, £350m? More maybe?

We're competing with a cheating machine with unlimited cash. It's not a fair fight.
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It's not just them though, TEN clubs outspent us this summer
 
VP89 said:
They will dominate games because they are atacked everywhere. But Anderson and Fernandes are still physical and they like early passes, they like to risk possession with direct players roo.
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Yes but they play for Maresca now, he hates that. Enzo when he played deep for us, we would mostly get the drawbacks of his lack agility and pace without the benefits of his box crashing goal scoring threat. Maresca is a 'must have possession control at all costs' kind of manager.
 
WeePat said:
Yes but they play for Maresca now, he hates that. Enzo when he played deep for us, we would mostly get the drawbacks of his lack agility and pace without the benefits of his box crashing goal scoring threat. Maresca is a 'must have possession control at all costs' kind of manager.
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Didn't their other 100m player get bought for that?
 
I just don't rate Anderson and Fernandez that highly at all. They are decent players, but not worth more than £70m in any sensible market (which is not what we're operating in). I haven't watched Fernandez at Chelsea and ever thought he was a world beater (he does have a good knack for late entries into the box). Anderson to me is a glorified Lee Cattermole, I simply don't understand the hype outside his energy levels and being English.
 
I have no clue how anyone can have an opinion on Bouaddi as far as the Premier League goes, he's played 8 minutes. I know Baleba had a down year last year but it doesn't erase he's actually played in the PL for 3 seasons and 2 of them he played well. This post ignores the fact that we already had Mainoo.

In no way can anyone definitively say they've done a better job, did they spend more? yes but doesn't mean better. Time is the only thing that will determine this. For all we know 4 months down the line a Mainoo/Baleba MF could be bossing games better than an Anderson/Fernandez MF.


Mr Pigeon said:
It's elsewhere on the pitch - LB, striker - where we've shown that we have absolutely no plan whatsoever.
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I think the plan is clear on those

They were hoping to have moved Zirkzee and Rashford on and allocate those funds/wage opening (400k would have been freed up) to a new ST for that to happen this window and LB we seem to have a certain player or players on the shortlist that weren't available or were way overpriced and they've decided instead of overpaying on a LB just to get one they'll go with a combination of Dorgu, Mazraoui, Dalot, Amass to cover and will go back next summer when Shaw comes off the books. Can't see them extending him. Just like we'll probably go for a CB with Martinez coming off the books. Nearly 300k in wages off the books next summer with those 2 contracts up after this season.
 
ron86 said:
It's not just them though, TEN clubs outspent us this summer
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So you just want to spend a lot of money? Do you have a poster of Woodward or something?

It's one thing spending it's another spending it well.
 
SB16 said:
I just don't rate Anderson and Fernandez that highly at all. They are decent players, but not worth more than £70m in any sensible market (which is not what we're operating in). I haven't watched Fernandez at Chelsea and ever thought he was a world beater (he does have a good knack for late entries into the box). Anderson to me is a glorified Lee Cattermole, I simply don't understand the hype outside his energy levels and being English.
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Enzo literally cost twice over 100m, surely he's a 100m player. We are not living in the past. Anderson on the other hand has a lot to prove, and possibly 100m would be fair considering Rice, Caiceido went for that amount too. Did they overpay by 25%? Yes Can they afford it? Yes.
 
VP89 said:
So you just want to spend a lot of money? Do you have a poster of Woodward or something?

It's one thing spending it's another spending it well.
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You need to do both, spend money AND spend it well. Being outspent by half the entire league is not spending
 
Their midfield cost a ton more and i am not even sure there is that big a gap tbh.
Both Baleba and Santos has loads of talent, and Tielemans can be really good when he finds his groove, as we have seen for both club and country. We have not done too bad considering.
City are basically bragging about being untouchable regarding financial rules.

SB16 said:
Anderson to me is a glorified Lee Cattermole
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That is brutal but i feel similar tbh. He might prove me wrong by finding new things to add to his skillset but for now he doesn`t look that exceptional.
I really like Enzo however, really good player, slightly underrated imo.
Bouaddi looks like a talent but we will see how he adapts and develops.
 
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