Have salaries at top clubs finally become too high?

[Zehner]

This question is obviously not a new one. But so far one could argue that top clubs, in spite ofbthe seemingly totally over the top salaries, are still making profits and the players are the ones generating it in the end.

However, in recent years salaries have climbed enormously and we're seeing more and more cases of clubs being unable to sell players they no longer need. There was Sanchez at United and Bale at Madrid is probably the most prominent example. But this is just the tip of the iceberg. Some teams are in dire need of rejunevating (Barca, Juve) but how are they supposed to do it? Their veterans are on monster salaries and since the wage level at top clubs has distanced so far from second and third tier clubs, how can they get those players off their paycheck? It's not only the star players but also the 'average' ones. It seems the moment you join a top club, your salary is doubled and it only goes up with every extension. You probably had tonaccept a halfing of your wage when you leave for a smaller club after not veing good enough anymore - thus it's understandable that you rather see out your contract.

Not too long ago, we've seen many former top players joining smaller clubs at the end of their career. That has become quite rare.

It's gotten to a point at which a player that has played for a top club is essentially finished for every other team. During the Havertz to Madrid talks it was reported they ofdered Leverkusen players in exchange and some of them were really interesting options (Diaz, Reguilon, etc). However, they were already on sonhigh wages that this was completely unrealistic.

Now consider a player like Griezmann. Bought for 120m, his salary is probably around 30m. By paying a 29 year old so much money you essentially set his transfer value to 0. If he performs, it's okay to pay him that much vut you wouldn't try selling him in this case anyway. But if he doesn't, nobody will be willing to pay him the same money for obvious reasons, meaning there'll be no market for him.

So what do you think? Are top clubs finally suffering from paying players too much?

 

[Skills]

I think the issue you're highlighting is more the financial gap between the big and small clubs. The big clubs are hoovering up talent by offering more money than anyone else, but now are suffering because they can't offload the same talent they hoovered up.

It's not the players fault - the players just get paid whatever that club is willing to pay them to incentivise them to join or stay at that given moment.

What needs to happen is squad sizes need to get capped - including players that can be loaned out. Once that happens, clubs can't board up talent and have to make more careful choices on who they're keeping on their books.

 

[Ekeke]

Yes and we're the ones that did it

 

[Nani Nana]

TV rights will stay the same for the foreseeable future, and with them monster wages. Not to mention glory-hunting owners for whom these expenses are trifling.

It took a 1929-style economic shock to dent matchday revenues. Yet the solidity of clubs' business models remains the same. Once fans are back in stadia, the upward trend will continue. What fans do not spend in the stadium they spend digitally. There is no stopping increasing capital flows in the game.

I think it would take massive player and club scandals like doping and match-fixing for fans, owners, broadcasters and sponsors to disengage.

 

[flappyjay]

If we paid Alexis whatever insane money we were paying him and he replicated his Arsenal form we would be saying it's a bargain but he was dross and he ended up being a waste of money. The problem is offering high wages to the wrong players in my opinion.

 

[Clique]

I think the issue you're highlighting is more the financial gap between the big and small clubs. The big clubs are hoovering up talent by offering more money than anyone else, but now are suffering because they can't offload the same talent they hoovered up.

It's not the players fault - the players just get paid whatever that club is willing to pay them to incentivise them to join or stay at that given moment.

What needs to happen is squad sizes need to get capped - including players that can be loaned out. Once that happens, clubs can't board up talent and have to make more careful choices on who they're keeping on their books.

Great OP @Zehner

Not sure if squad caps is the right way to approach this. We (United) don't really have a large quality squad, with the drop off from the First XI to the second being palpable. But even with that situation, we find ourselves struggling to get rid of deadwood.

While I understand, to a certain extent, the reason behind Sanchez's salary or even Smalling for that matter. We're grossly overpaying Jones, Rojo and Lingard type players who's only reason for a salary increase would be the disparity between the salaries of the tier 1 players and the anchoring effect it has on their negotiations.

To that end, I think the only viable solution is a overall wage cap (not a per player salary cap but rather for the club's spending) - a club can only spend up to a certain amount on salaries/wages. I'm sure there'll be some creative accounting ways to pay the real superstars their worth (image rights, etc.) but it'll allow the squad fillers a proper anchor on where their salary should be relative to their performance on the pitch.

 

[ivaldo]

Yes and we're the ones that did it

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion.

 

[Ali Dia]

Good OP

I think contracts should be heavily incentivised. That would ensure a player isn’t happy to sit on the bench or in the stands and make mega money for providing nothing. Squad players will want to move more. Being a big fish in a small pond would pay more than being a squad player at a big club or sitting on a huge deal after you’ve flopped and it should make things easier on the middle sized clubs in regards to acquiring and keeping talent. Clubs would have to rely on their academies more too.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Yes - and you can start to see that bigger clubs will no longer be buying these established players on massive wages.

 

[Zehner]

If we paid Alexis whatever insane money we were paying him and he replicated his Arsenal form we would be saying it's a bargain but he was dross and he ended up being a waste of money. The problem is offering high wages to the wrong players in my opinion.

Yeah, that's what I meant. As long as the player performs as expected, everything is fine. But if he doesn't or if he degresses with multiple years left on his contract, you're fecked because you can't offload him. He may still be good enough for a second tier club but since his wages are unpayable for such a team, he'll just see out his contract and who can blame him? I sure as hell wouldn't accept a 50% pay cut when I have a contract that lasts another two or three years.

It's similar with talents that went to a top club and failed. Their high salary means they're ruined for lower tier clubs that may be their actual level, after all. Take Brahim Diaz for example. He would've been a great player for a swap deal involving Havertz but he would completely disrupt our wage structure - although he's shown nothing up until this point.

 

[Clique]

TV rights will stay the same for the foreseeable future, and with them monster wages. Not to mention glory-hunting owners for whom these expenses are trifling.

It took a 1929-style economic shock to dent matchday revenues. Yet the solidity of clubs' business models remains the same. Once fans are back in stadia, the upward trend will continue. What fans do not spend in the stadium they spend digitally. There is no stopping increasing capital flows in the game.

I think it would take massive player and club scandals like doping and match-fixing for fans, owners, broadcasters and sponsors to disengage.

If this continues, we'll truly stop having competitive leagues across the globe. We would all be poorer for it.

To OP's point, having a set of 4-5 clubs sweep up the talent in the game for such massive wages that they can't be sold is going to disrupt the quality that's spread to the other teams. The production factory can only have so many quality players at any given time. We (united) have done it ourselves - we could've and should've let Phil Jones learn his trade with the smaller clubs - maybe England could've had their own VVD if he had a better rub of the green and lesser expectations.

 

[roonster09]

Top clubs always paid top wages, that's why they are able to attract better players from smaller clubs. It's been the case all the time but now they revenue of top clubs is so high that these wages are also high.

 

[JPRouve]

Yeah, that's what I meant. As long as the player performs as expected, everything is fine. But if he doesn't or if he degresses with multiple years left on his contract, you're fecked because you can't offload him. He may still be good enough for a second tier club but since his wages are unpayable for such a team, he'll just see out his contract and who can blame him? I sure as hell wouldn't accept a 50% pay cut when I have a contract that lasts another two or three years.

It's similar with talents that went to a top club and failed. Their high salary means they're ruined for lower tier clubs that may be their actual level, after all. Take Brahim Diaz for example. He would've been a great player for a swap deal involving Havertz but he would completely disrupt our wage structure - although he's shown nothing up until this point.

That's not new, it has always been the case top clubs would pay a lot more than third/fourth tier clubs which is exactly how they got the players in the first place. The issue with the example that you used is more that the financial gap between Real Madrid and Leverkusen is massive, you are not the next tier which is where Real Madrid pricy players generally go, for example Walter Samuel from Madrid to Inter or Higuain/Albiol/Callejon to Napoli.

 

[MartinRed]

Yes, they have, and I blame mostly those two.Nasser bin Ghanim Al-Khelaifi and Mansour bin Zayed Al Nahyan.They kind of fecked up european football.

 

[Adisa]

On average, aren't salaries as a percentage of turnover dropping?

 

[Zehner]

That's not new, it has always been the case top clubs would pay a lot more than third/fourth tier clubs which is exactly how they got the players in the first place. The issue with the example that you used is more that the financial gap between Real Madrid and Leverkusen is massive, you are not the next tier which is where Real Madrid pricy players generally go, for example Walter Samuel from Madrid to Inter or Higuain/Albiol/Cellejon to Napoli.

Actually, that wasn't the case too long ago. Carvajal exemplary was a player we loaned from them. We also signed Chicharito not too long ago, signed Ballack when he left Chelsea and Hyypiä from Liverpool. Sure, we couldn't pay an established Madrid player the same wages but a talent that struggled to get minutes at all? Definitely. Hamburg exemplarily signed van Nistelroy and Schalke Raul. Hard to imagine nowadays.

And it's not only us. Shipping off a star player like Sanchez was never as difficult as today, was it? The financial gap is growing constantly and it has gotten to a point where even second tier clubs struggle to pay failed or aging top club players. Take a player like Busquets for example - who could realistically take him? Even second tier clubs would struggle to pay his wages, especially for his current level, and below that it's very unrealistic.

 

[Mb194dc]

Yes, the money and greed in football generally has got out of control.

Now we get the reckoning with the economic problems from Covid 19. TV model also will change radically over the next 10+ years, cheap streaming will become widely available (legally..., it already is via other means), fans will gain and clubs will lose out. Also going to see sponsorship income collapse, when you look at the main sponsors in football and how much they're going to suffer, airlines are an obvious one... Did Utd renew main shirt sponsor yet? That will be an interesting litmus test.

Clubs will be much more careful about the wages they're offering and paying extortionate transfer fees. Already seeing it in this window, with refusing to renew Willian as wage demands and contract length too high and Utd refusing to pay £108m for Sancho.

 

[roonster09]

That's not new, it has always been the case top clubs would pay a lot more than third/fourth tier clubs which is exactly how they got the players in the first place. The issue with the example that you used is more that the financial gap between Real Madrid and Leverkusen is massive, you are not the next tier which is where Real Madrid pricy players generally go, for example Walter Samuel from Madrid to Inter or Higuain/Albiol/Cellejon to Napoli.

Exactl and also clubs not able to offload players is not new either. For example, Inter had to give Golden handshake for many of their treble winning team as they were on high wages and they struggled to offload them.

 

[JPRouve]

Yes, they have, and I blame mostly those two.Nasser bin Ghanim Al-Khelaifi and Mansour bin Zayed Al Nahyan.They kind of fecked up european football.

Neither are responsible, so it's a bit strange to blame them. It's clubs like Barcelona and Real Madrid that created it for top players while wages for average players are dedicated by the richer clubs in that market which are mainly midtable PL clubs. The reason behind wages disparity is based on revenue disparities between Top CL contenders/PL clubs and the rest of the world that doesn't get UEFA money or BT/Sky sports money. That's why a club like Bolton was able to afford Djorkaeff,, Okocha or players like Ivan Campo while not being a big club.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

The problem is clubs can’t shift poor performing players on massive salaries. They will only do this so many times.

 

[Clique]

Actually, that wasn't the case too long ago. Carvajal exemplary was a player we loaned from them. We also signed Chicharito not too long ago, signed Ballack when he left Chelsea and Hyypiä from Liverpool. Sure, we couldn't pay an established Madrid player the same wages but a talent that struggled to get minutes at all? Definitely. Hamburg exemplarily signed van Nistelroy and Schalke Raul. Hard to imagine nowadays.

And it's not only us. Shipping off a star player like Sanchez was never as difficult as today, was it? The financial gap is growing constantly and it has gotten to a point where even second tier clubs struggle to pay failed or aging top club players. Take a player like Busquets for example - who could realistically take him? Even second tier clubs would struggle to pay his wages, especially for his current level, and below that it's very unrealistic.

You're right. The market has changed. Remember not more than 10 years ago when players getting 100K per wk was considered elite. Ergo the squad players were automatically had a salary that was relative.

With the elite players now earning 250-300K it allows a lot of gap for the squad players to negotiate and anchor their salaries based on the top earner.

Hypothetically, what would happen if we were to put a wage limit on the clubs? (not per player, but on the club as a whole). The top players would eitherway get compensated by image rights and such - while the squad players are restricted by both their performance as well as the club's overall constraint.

It shouldn't be as a % of revenue though, that'll restrict the smaller clubs - it should be an absolute number (say $300M per year)

 

[Clique]

Neither are responsible, so it's a bit strange to blame them. It's clubs like Barcelona and Real Madrid that created it for top players while wages for average players are dedicated by the richer clubs in that market which are mainly midtable PL clubs. The reason behind wages disparity is based on revenue disparities between Top CL contenders/PL clubs and the rest of the world that doesn't get UEFA money or BT/Sky sports money. That's why a club like Bolton was able to afford Djorkaeff,, Okocha or players like Ivan Campo while not being a big club.

Don't think this is possible today. Like OP says, even squad players in big teams would blow the salary structure of smaller teams out the window.

 

[Gopher Brown]

Businesses will only pay salaries in accordance to the value they think that player can bring to the club. If the vast amounts of money clubs bring in through sponsorship, exploiting fans and television revenue increases, the salaries should reflect that, so, no, unless clubs are going bust, they aren’t ‘too high’

I do think, however, more players should be willing to take pay cuts to join another team - while one on hand the argument is that they only have short careers, so earn as much as you can, but on the other hand, they only have short careers, so play as much as you can.

 

[Nani Nana]

Hypothetically, what would happen if we were to put a wage limit on the clubs? (not per player, but on the club as a whole). The top players would eitherway get compensated by image rights and such - while the squad players are restricted by both their performance as well as the club's overall constraint.

NBA salary cap has not prevented the trend of average basketball players receiving absurdly high wages, in a way never seen before.

Not sure why just that specific part of club expenses should be capped, when transfer fees, season tickets, TV rights, merchandising prices, etc remain unrestricted and keep growing.

 

[roonster09]

Don't think this is possible today. Like OP says, even squad players in big teams would blow the salary structure of smaller teams out the window.

Ribery plays for Fiorentina. It happens even today, not long ago, Luca Toni player for small club.

 

[JPRouve]

Actually, that wasn't the case too long ago. Carvajal exemplary was a player we loaned from them. We also signed Chicharito not too long ago, signed Ballack when he left Chelsea and Hyypiä from Liverpool. Sure, we couldn't pay an established Madrid player the same wages but a talent that struggled to get minutes at all? Definitely. Hamburg exemplarily signed van Nistelroy and Schalke Raul. Hard to imagine nowadays.

And it's not only us. Shipping off a star player like Sanchez was never as difficult as today, was it? The financial gap is growing constantly and it has gotten to a point where even second tier clubs struggle to pay failed or aging top club players. Take a player like Busquets for example - who could realistically take him? Even second tier clubs would struggle to pay his wages, especially for his current level, and below that it's very unrealistic.

It has always been the case, you used the example of a loaned player, of a free transfer in the case of Ballack, a cheap unwanted squad player in the case of Chicharito and an other free transfer in the case of Hyypia. Two of the players mentioned were out of contract. So you are strengthening my point.
Schalke are on a different tier than you are, even today they are financially 15th in Europe, if they weren't mismanaged they should be able to afford these players like every other top 15 clubs. Sanchez got shipped off quite easily, United probably paid a part of what they owed him but that's always true, the club that signed the initial contract is liable.

So no, to me it seems that you don't realize where Leverkusen are in the pecking order and how things happened in the past.

 

[do.ob]

To be honest I don't really see the problem. Financially speaking clubs wouldn't pay that much if they couldn't afford it.

If it backfires it's their own damn fault. E.g. Barca aren't burdened by these wages, because the system is broken, it's because they bought one expensive flop after another. United paying Sanchez that much money (and having DDG supposedly using those wages as a reference point) is their own fault as well.

If you're (reasonably) well run club, like Real or Bayern, you just absorb a hit like Bale or Hernandez. It's only when the mistakes pile on that you're getting choked by them.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Barca’s are a joke. Griezmann on £800k.

De Jong coming from Ajax straight into a £360k A week wage.

 

[roonster09]

Don't think this is possible today. Like OP says, even squad players in big teams would blow the salary structure of smaller teams out the window.

Ribery joined Fiorentina, Luca Toni played for some smaller club and there is a good chance David Silva might sign for Lazio.

 

[Clique]

Ribery joined Fiorentina, Luca Toni played for some smaller club and there is a good chance David Silva might sign for Lazio.

I have a lot of time for the way the German clubs conduct their operations. Yes Bayern scoops up a lot of players, but almost all the clubs are very efficient in the way they spend their money.

In the latest report which had all the clubs listed - I think Bayern was the highest at #6, with Lewandowski at $275K being their highest earner.

Also wouldnt be suprised if Ribery, Toni and D Silva have taken a pay cut to play for these teams. I'm coming from a world where United is finding it difficult to move its players primarily because of the wages we've given out (see Darmian, Rojo, Lingard (?))

Now don't get me wrong, the best players deserve the best salaries - they've worked hard to get where they are. But do you think Chong at 30k per week or Rojo at 150+k per week is an appropriate cost for their performance?

 

[JPRouve]

Don't think this is possible today. Like OP says, even squad players in big teams would blow the salary structure of smaller teams out the window.

It happens quite often and even more today. Take the Wolves with Moutinho, knowing his wage at Monaco he isn't exactly cheap especially since for Monaco his wage was tax free. Andre Gomes moved from Barcelona to Everton, Mariano moved from Real Madrid to Lyon and keep in mind that at the time many clubs such as Bolton or Blackburn were sugar daddied. Real Madrid players often end up at Inter, Sevilla, Valencia, Roma, Napoli or clubs like Everton. Of course they aren't going to often end up at Norwich, Angers or Leverkusen but it has never been the case.

People should have a look at Deloitte money league, it will give you an idea about where players could go and why it's limited to the top 20-25 clubs.

 

[Clique]

NBA salary cap has not prevented the trend of average basketball players receiving absurdly high wages, in a way never seen before.

Not sure why just that specific part of club expenses should be capped, when transfer fees, season tickets, TV rights, merchandising prices, etc remain unrestricted and keep growing.

Its a hypothetical - but the way I see it. The big players, the high performers get a higher portion of their image rights and performance linked salaries. While maintaining a semblance of sanity with regards to the squad player salaries.

Always open to understand your thoughts on how we can avoid situations like the ones OP pointed out - Squad players in Real having higher salaries than the starts at Bayer Leverkusen.

 

[MrMarcello]

Questions: If the mega-clubs are getting bloated on ridiculous wages and then struggle to offload due to wage issues, why aren't these mega-clubs inserting buyout clauses in contracts?

Or offering to offset wages until contract expiration while sending the player to whichever club will take on?

Also, are contracts guaranteed? If not, can a club simply release the player with no further expenditure?

 

[roonster09]

I have a lot of time for the way the German clubs conduct their operations. Yes Bayern scoops up a lot of players, but almost all the clubs are very efficient in the way they spend their money.

In the latest report which had all the clubs listed - I think Bayern was the highest at #6, with Lewandowski at $275K being their highest earner.

Also wouldnt be suprised if Ribery, Toni and D Silva have taken a pay cut to play for these teams. I'm coming from a world where United is finding it difficult to move its players primarily because of the wages we've given out (see Darmian, Rojo, Lingard (?))

Now don't get me wrong, the best players deserve the best salaries - they've worked hard to get where they are. But do you think Chong at 30k per week or Rojo at 150+k per week is an appropriate cost for their performance?

Clubs finding hard to move players is not something new, nearly 10 years ago Inter had to give payout to their treble winning squad to sell them. It was always the case.

Even 10-15 years ago, our squad players earned more than most players in the league (non top clubs), it will always be the case, that's why there is such a huge difference in total wage bill of top and non top clubs.

 

[Chipper]

I'm not sure it's happening more all of a sudden, but if it is then I suppose everything will hit some sort of equilibrium or iron itself out. I don't necessarily see it as a problem.

Can't see big clubs suddenly and unilaterally stopping paying so much because they all want the best players. There'll be no price fixing, it's an arms race. If some stop they're at a disadvantage to those who would continue when it comes to signing the top players.

If big clubs having given players massive contracts can't offload their rejects (something that has always happened to a degree) then they'll just have to offer to pay part of their salary, again something that's happened before, or not and work out which they prefer.

If smaller clubs want the big clubs rejects then propose that the big club pays part of the salary. If the big club doesn't want to then while not getting the player and improving their side, the smaller club is gaining on the big club in a roundabout way. The big club would now be paying out a huge salary for someone not to play. That's dead, wasted and inefficient money so it means the cash available to spend on the players they actually want is lower than it otherwise would be, lessening their financial advantage in real terms to a degree. It still would be a bit sad that such players feel wasted from a fans perspective, sitting around doing nothing at a massive club when they could be improving the spectacle of the game by playing every week for a smaller one but I suppose there's not much we can do about that.

 

[Clique]

It happens quite often and even more today. Take the Wolves with Moutinho, knowing his wage at Monaco he isn't exactly cheap especially since for Monaco his wage was tax free. Andre Gomes moved from Barcelona to Everton, Mariano moved from Real Madrid to Lyon and keep in mind that at the time many clubs such as Bolton or Blackburn were sugar daddied. Real Madrid players often end up at Inter, Sevilla, Valencia, Roma, Napoli or clubs like Everton. Of course they aren't going to often end up at Norwich, Angers or Leverkusen but it has never been the case.

People should have a look at Deloitte money league, it will give you an idea about where players could go and why it's limited to the top 20-25 clubs.

Hmm. Fair enough. I've downloaded the Deloitte report. Will give it a read.

Curious, and you seem to have read about it a bit, are you not concerned with the growing disparity in financial strength between the top clubs and others?

 

[SirAF]

For me, I’d like to see a larger part of the salary being performance based. That way you’d avoid getting stuck with a «Sanchez». Would probably need some sort of regulation though.

 

[HackeyC]

Personally I would like to see more retained earnings from a viability perspective and a much higher % of variable pay based on results. This should be collectively agreed within the league.

 

[JPRouve]

Hmm. Fair enough. I've downloaded the Deloitte report. Will give it a read.

Curious, and you seem to have read about it a bit, are you not concerned with the growing disparity in financial strength between the top clubs and others?

It has been happening since the 90s, I have never experienced anything else and FFP made it worse. So, no I'm not worried because there is nothing that can be done about it, we are not going to prevent broadcasters to spend big money on the PL/CL and the disparity is so large that if you wanted to put wage cap, you would have make significantly lower than it currently is which isn't fair for players who creates added value and should get the biggest share of the money generated.

And football has never been fair, the way the disparity was managed was through sugar daddies. That's how the likes of Parma, Lazio, Marseille, PSG(pre 2000), Leverkusen, Milan, Inter and many others competed against the financial juggernauts that are Real Madrid, Bayern, United, Liverpool, Barcelona and the latter version of Juventus who were also a sugar daddied club for a long time.

FFP means that everyone gets in line, the very large clubs can do whatever they want, they can stockpile players and no one can legally compete for more than a couple of seasons before the group of 5 or 6 teams finish their dismantling.

 

[JSArsenal]

I'm happy for the people who generate the revenue in football to profit from it.

What's the alternative? In a perfect world, football clubs would be required to invest a percentage of their revenue into the local community that supports it week in week out. Simultaneously they could also provide a large bonus to their non playing staff, not just coaches but the folk who work in the business side of things.

Otherwise, if you reduce player salaries or put a cap on it. That just means more money going to the club owners, who are already billionaires.

Is that what anyone wants?