Have we significantly improved since we got rid of LVG?

[Litch]

Improved, depends how you are measuring it? Performances not really, results yes

 

[Bestietom]

Improved, depends how you are measuring it? Performances not really, results yes

I agree with you. Points on the board have improved but our football have not. I feel that Mourinho has still not figured out our best 11 and the formation we should be playing.

 

[Roboc7]

Since SAF left we have played negative, simple and outdated football, that hasn’t improved. I would say we are better than we were under LVG but that is mainly because we have recruited better players, still a long way off being s good team.

 

[JPRouve]

If you give LVG our current team, we smash most opponents, the problem is that LVG is enamoured with the likes of Braafheid and Tyler Blackett. You can't trust the man to buy a bag of flour.

 

[roonster09]

If you give LVG our current team, we smash most opponents, the problem is that LVG is enamoured with the likes of Braafheid and Tyler Blackett. You can't trust the man to buy a bag of flour.

Doubt it. Maybe he would make Pogba to forget how to dribble and pass more than 10 yards, he wouldn't allow Sanchez any minute as he loses possession so many times.

 

[JPRouve]

Doubt it. Maybe he would make Pogba to forget how to dribble and pass more than 10 yards, he wouldn't allow Sanchez any minute as he loses possession so many times.

Nah. While he would probably instruct Pogba to concentrate on his passing abilities, which would be a great thing, Sanchez would be in the same situation than Martial, he would most likely give him the same role, Lukaku would have to adapt his game though.

 

[Ikon]

On the surface, we have a better league position, have won a couple of trophies, progressed in the Champions League, and Mourinho is miles better in the transfer market than LVG.
But, its a big concern that we still don't look like a team with a purpose, far too many players are underperforming and we are not seeing the best of them by a long chalk..

 

[freeurmind]

Some sense from Roy Keane.

 

[POF]

Haven't improved since LVG? People have ridiculously short memories.

Under LVG it was a rarity to have a shot on target in the first half!

 

[Puddser]

A bit of a slump during an injury hit period doesn't write off the progress we've made.

A bit of perspective:

We lost away to Tottenham and didn't play well
We lost away to Newcastle and didn't play well.
We drew a tough Champions League away match in Spain against a revitalised Sevilla.

We've won all of our last 10 games aside from the three games mentioned, scored 16 and conceded none. We're in the quarter finals of the FA Cup and have a home advantage to hopefully reach the quarter finals of the Champions League. Oh and still we sit in second.


Are we where we want to be? Of course not, is the football perfect? Hell no. We've come a fecking long way though and I think fans forget just how bad things have got if they think we're not making progress. I'd have sold my own mother if you offered me to be in this position at the same time of the season in Moyes' first year and Van Gaal's second.

If we go back as far as the City game, 17 matches in total. We've lost 4 and drawn 4..Hardly that great is it? Arguably in that period our football has been its absolute worst since Fergie left for me. How can people turn a blind eye to performances like Bristol (knocked out of the LC), Burnley at home (2 down at one point), Southampton, Spurs (one of the worst United performances I've watched ever), Newcastle and midweek where we basically refused to leave our own half and registered a single shot on target.

The last 10 games we've played some poor teams in Everton, Stoke, Burnley, Derby, Yeovil and Huddersfield twice....and your trying to put a positive spin on it? That's 7 of the 10 matches there mate, not like we've played PL top opposition and I'll point out that we struggled to beat some of them sides as well, grinding results out.

Perspective? I'd say some need a strong dose of wake up juice!

 

[Scholsey2004]

Van gaal couldn't have brought in the players Jose has, he wouldn't have the pull and he was too fickle.

 

[AP88]

Van gaal couldn't have brought in the players Jose has, he wouldn't have the pull and he was too fickle.

Like who? Lindelöf?

Pogba came back to United for the glamour and money the club threw at him; his pedestrian, half-arsed performances since show that he has no passion to be a prodigal saviour.

Bailly and Lukaku certainly wouldn’t have turned United down, while Sanchez joined the the club because it’s the biggest in England. United can attract most players regardless of who’s coaching the club.

You seem to be forgetting that Falcao, Di Maria and Schweinsteiger all signed for LVG’s United - huge ‘names’ in world football at the time.

One thing that is almost certain, Martial, Rashford and Shaw would be utilised properly and fulfilling their potential.

 

[Tomuś]

I miss the big games under LvG, that's or sure. Overall we've improved decisiveness in transition and putting lesser teams to bed, even if not by a long distance.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Honestly preferred watching LVG football to this. What we see now considering the quality of players now in the team is shocking. LVG would have this lot playing far better.

 

[rpg]

Lvg I reckon this season we will be around 3-5th positions. He would still have Fellaini trotting on the pitch.

Fergie with this team I m pretty convince we will be top or point level with Man city.

 

[lex talionis]

We're playing "significantly better" now than under Van Gaal, but we're not playing at the level we expect. Our finishing is still poor and our set piece defending is still a horror show.

What I'm really worried about right now is what Sanchez has done to the squad. Martial was flying in great form and that's all gone now. Maybe it comes back but maybe it doesn't.

Fingers crossed Sanchez isn't another Di Maria.

 

[KristianMackle]

We'll yea we have. Results prove it. Performances however are different but then again trophies are won from results not performances.

 

[Hamadovich86]

In terms of results, we got two trophies and seems like we'll finish in the top four this season. In terms of performance its just as dull, under LVG we had lots of possession, passed the ball side ways and dropped a lot of points against smaller teams. Under Mourinho, we have slow build up play, sitting back and a poor record against the top teams. They are like an inversion of each other really. I have given up on seeing consistently great performances under Mourinho, its all about results now.

 

[Roosney]

Improved for sure but it worries me that we have such a great set of players but still our game plan too often is something like Smalling hoofing to Lukaku surrounded by 4 oppos, repeat.

 

[tenpoless]

We have improved a lot, under LvG I didn't think we were heading into the right direction... And I'd never thought We'd win a game if it's not up against teams at the bottom of the table.

The problem is, our rivals, ManCity especially have also improved significantly... Making us look stagnant. We have made progress and I expect us to continue to do so under Mourinho. The board seemed to want him to stay, They seemed to believe in him.

 

[AN17]

We played shit football then, we play shit football now. Only thing, results have picked up and we have two trophies to show for it.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

If my memory serve me right, LVG got a team of kids playing possession football, and Mouinho got a team of world class players parking the bus. Who is better coach for Man Utd is up to the fans though.

Edit
LVG has a philosophy, a system how he wants his team to play. It is possession football. He was getting his team to that direction imo, but seems like everybody was running out of patience with him at the time. Management and fans were looking for quick fix, which is fine, so they turned to Mou.

Mou's system, like he said himself, is to stop opponent playing. He got MU a EL trophy last season

so here you go.

 

[Canagel]

LVG would be doing better with the current players. We may have played boring football with the likes of Schneiderlin, Fellaini, Depay etc but I don't think he would be playing such boring football now with the quality we have in the squad now. Still was the right descionn to sack him though.

 

[Cassidy]

We have improved a lot, under LvG I didn't think we were heading into the right direction... And I'd never thought We'd win a game if it's not up against teams at the bottom of the table.

The problem is, our rivals, ManCity especially have also improved significantly... Making us look stagnant. We have made progress and I expect us to continue to do so under Mourinho. The board seemed to want him to stay, They seemed to believe in him.

We beat plenty of good teams in the league like City Liverpool Spurs etc. We hardly do that now

 

[Sensei]

To be honest, Jose would do worse with the squad LvG had and LvG will do better with Jose's squad. LvG would never have gotten all the players Jose got, so no point comparing both..

 

[MDFC Manager]

From the stats that @MThomas posted, there's only been marginal improvement over LvG, tinpot trophies aside.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

Anyway Mou's contract is just renewed so he will be Man Utd manager for at least 2 more seasons, so just enjoy his football. In the mean time i will follow Liverpool for entertainment, just because watching Arsenal lately is torturing me.

 

[Wumminator]

From the stats that @MThomas posted, there's only been marginal improvement over LvG, tinpot trophies aside.

Yeah he said were creating less chances a game than LVG's first season? That can't be right surely

 

[Chuck_B]

NOPE .

I don't think we have improved hugely. We have acquired better individual players, but we still do not look like a team. The last few weeks are really concerning. The fixtures we have coming up in the next few weeks will really show what Jose is all about, but for me he has lost something about himself and it's having a knock on effect through the whole team.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Yeah he said were creating less chances a game than LVG's first season? That can't be right surely

Found it hard to believe at first, but it makes sense. The results and the tinpot trophies have masked over the actual performances.

 

[Water Melon]

We will see come end of the season. With the amount of money spent, we should be doing much much better. Finish below second, and Woody will have a word with Mou. Our resources are not limitless, so we need to make the best use of what we have invested in. So far, its "meh" to me.

 

[AndyJ1985]

From the stats that @MThomas posted, there's only been marginal improvement over LvG, tinpot trophies aside.

It's not surprising the stats back up what we're seeing with our own eyes. The performances are only marginally less dull than they were with LVG.

 

[NoLogo]

We had. For the first part of this season I felt we were at the best we had been since SAF retired. Unfortunately we have somehow regressed again. The team still looks very imbalanced and there is little structure or plan in our game it seems.

Hell even Girona who got decked 6-1 last night by Barca seem to attack with more purpose than we do, which is really sad but hey at least we defend better, that's something.

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

We had. For the first part of this season I felt we were at the best we had been since SAF retired. Unfortunately we have somehow regressed again. The team still looks very imbalanced and there is little structure or plan in our game it seems.

Hell even Girona who got decked 6-1 last night by Barca seem to attack with more purpose than we do, which is really sad but hey at least we defend better, that's something.

We defend better,and we also score more goals,so that's a huge improvement right there.But do we really look like a top top team?Do we look like we are in complete control of the game?Unfortunately the answer is no,I think we are probably 1 summer transfer window away from being the real deal.If we sign 2 top class midfielders and 1 ball playing CB,and if we bring the best out of Shaw,we"ll be very very good next season....

 

[rockerlad]

We have slightly improved. It's still boring to watch but we are getting results now.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Honestly preferred watching LVG football to this. What we see now considering the quality of players now in the team is shocking. LVG would have this lot playing far better.

Yeah like when we scored 49 goals in 38 games or when we went 10 games without being able to score in the first half.

 

[VP89]

It was boring to watch in recent games but we had a great first half to the season. IMHO we must put things into context for Mourinho and it lies in midfield.

Fellaini and Carrick being out together for this long was a bit unforeseen, and whilst everyone knew he needed to buy more than just Matic in midfield he can be forgiven to allocate his spending budget to one in each position and spread his risk somewhat (i.e. Lukaku, Matic, Lindelof).

Mourinho's style depends on having control in games even without the ball, but the issue he clearly sees is right in the middle of the park and that alone makes our entire team look shite.

Matic can't play alone, Herrera has struggled with fitness in recent games and Pogba has been really really bad in any disciplined midfield role. I don't really blame our manager for that, someone with Pogba's capabilities should be able to put in a shift in secondary midfield roles when required. If he doesn't it's the manager's job to get the message across to him that he's not undroppable and needs to pull his weight - our manager has done exactly that.

It's a blip in form and results for February but these things happen, especially with the injury list as it is. Sanchez coming in has temporarily disrupted the fluidity of our attacking selection and now the whole squad probably has no clue who will start in the front around Lukaku and in which position. But that's a reason why managers don't really like January purchases or sales because it disrupts the team. Sanchez is a special player however so we will need to make it work around him, but lets give Jose some time to get it right rather than jump on him from a bad February.

In summary, I think he's vastly improved us. If you remember the early season thread "are we that good or do we flatter to deceive" (or similar wording), I actually voted "we flatter to deceive", but despite that I'm sure Mourinho has us in the right direction. From an acquisition standpoint Jose has a very good record of getting terrific players at every club he's been to. I'm certain he's going to perform similar surgery on our central midfield this summer and our entire side will look a different outlet. I didn't have that view when we bought Lukaku or Pogba (in terms of them alone transforming our side), but I do have this feeling now. He's king at building a solid foundation and he's not going to let this midfield continue as is when we're in August.

 

[Jazz]

I think LVG would have been doing much better. He had a philosophy, a plan - even if the initial execution was torturous.
He would have vastly improved, Shaw, Rash and Martial. Young talented players who could be the mainstay of our team for quite a few years - saving the club money in the process.

Instead Jose wants old overpaid players who cost a lot in salary and have nothing to offer to our future and will be expensive to replace as well. I doubt LVG would be doing that.

LVG would have succeeded I believe if he didn't have to deal with club politics, and our disgusting excuse of a press pack.

In any case, I hardly see any improvement, bar the trophies won last season (LVG also won a trophy as well). Jose has no philosophy and is alienating and mis-managing our young, talented players. So for me, we're in a worse situation.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Yeah like when we scored 49 goals in 38 games or when we went 10 games without being able to score in the first half.

Take in to account the things he was missing, someone to take the ball out of midfield, a right winger which would have been DiMarias position, had to put Martial on the left due to the poor form of Depay and the emergence of Rashford. Yet we controlled games, seemed to understand our jobs and were only a few quality additions away from the team LVG wanted.
When people come out with stats like that it to me is so short sighted. If LVG had his same team with the additions we have Pogba, Lukaku, Sanchez, Matic, Lindelof he’d at least have this team playing football in a way that suits its personnel other than what we see now.

I also don’t agree with this notion being peddled by some that we were good first half of the season. We really weren’t even that Swansea game people like to laud we played poorly. Some people clearly just blinded by results.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

I think LVG would have been doing much better. He had a philosophy, a plan - even if the initial execution was torturous.
He would have vastly improved, Shaw, Rash and Martial. Young talented players who could be the mainstay of our team for quite a few years - saving the club money in the process.

Instead Jose wants old overpaid players who cost a lot in salary and have nothing to offer to our future and will be expensive to replace as well. I doubt LVG would be doing that.

LVG would have succeeded I believe if he didn't have to deal with club politics, and our disgusting excuse of a press pack.

In any case, I hardly see any improvement, bar the trophies won last season (LVG also won a trophy as well). Jose has no philosophy and is alienating and mis-managing our young, talented players. So for me, we're in a worse situation.

But that's what managers are being paid for, am i not right? To make things work on the pitch and not just in their heads, that is. If this wasn't the case, all big clubs would be standing in line and begging for Bielsa's signature. You will strive to find a better theoretician in football than him. That's to whom Pep went to discuss his ideas about football and get advice for the utilization of Messi. But they're not.

And which are these old players? Bailly, Lindelof, Lukaku, Pogba, Miki and Sanchez? All of them below 30. You can point toward Matic (29 is old for the CAf, i suppose) and Zlatan but it's not like LvG didn't try to add some experience by kicking Welbeck out of the club in order to bring in Falcao (also 29 then) and by signing Schweinsteiger who was not only old but had serious injury problems too.

You can dislike the manager and the football we play nowadays as much as you like but a bit of perspective wouldn't be that bad every now and then on this forum.