Have you ever been closer to wanting us to lose?

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croadyman

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I will happily take a few bad results if it speeds things up but whatever happens the next few games it still feels like he will be staying in the job and our players will have yet more months of not being coached properly which is shambolic. Wouldn't be in the least bit surprised to see him still in charge at the next international break in March.
 
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lefty_jakobz

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Why are we all assuming that we will beat Watford? Ranieri at the helm, them playing a low block and hitting on the counter…I’ll be happy if we don’t concede 3/4
 

Foxbatt

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Why are we all assuming that we will beat Watford? Ranieri at the helm, them playing a low block and hitting on the counter…I’ll be happy if we don’t concede 3/4
Surely you don't expect us not to hammer Watford? We have too much individual quality in our team.
Half the Redcafe as Manager would select a team to beat Watford.
 

lefty_jakobz

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Surely you don't expect us not to hammer Watford? We have too much individual quality in our team..
I don't know what to expect with this team any more. It sure as hell wouldn’t surprise me if the Tinkerman manages to beat us
 

roonster09

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So, in other words, you'd be ok with United losing for the perceived greater good?
Mic-Drop :lol:

Entitled spoilt brats want ManUtd to lose for the "greater good", in a hope that manager will be sacked and we will return to winning ways.
ManUtd fan with Manutd in his blood want ManUtd to lose so that people can support other clubs.
 

passtheball

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So, in other words, you'd be ok with United losing for the perceived greater good?
So @Nou_Camp99 disappears from the thread as soon as he's shown to be the sanctimonious hypocrite he is.
 

Jippy

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I saw a tweet mentioning the fact Joel Glazer hasn't pulled the trigger because we're still in the champions league and are close to top 4.

Wanting us to lose has never crossed my mind before, and I can understand the thought process, and my question for those of you who are wanting us to lose to get rid of Ole (I'm probably not that far off) - would you go one step further and want us not to be in the fight for top four, aka languish in mid table for a few years so the cash cow that is United, becomes unprofitable for the Glazers so they have no choice but to sell up at a massively reduced price?

That would be the only way, logically speaking that the United we all knew and loved has any hope of becoming back.
Is it really fact though or just an opinion or vague rumour?
 

Jippy

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Mic-Drop :lol:

Entitled spoilt brats want ManUtd to lose for the "greater good", in a hope that manager will be sacked and we will return to winning ways.
ManUtd fan with Manutd in his blood want ManUtd to lose so that people can support other clubs.
And anyone wanting ManUtd to win is a top red wanker.

What a trio of options.
 

Jippy

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Just to make it clear, those are not my words :D

I'm just summarizing what @Nou_Camp99 said in last few posts.
They do seem to be the three positions being taken by a significant portion of our fans. Plus there's those still undecided, those who just want Ole to go quickly but not in a horrible way and a few still hoping he finds some magic formula from god knows where to turn things round.
 

roonster09

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They do seem to be the three positions being taken by a significant portion of our fans. Plus there's those still undecided, those who just want Ole to go quickly but not in a horrible way and a few still hoping he finds some magic formula from god knows where to turn things round.
Yeah, we have these options and everyone should magically fit into these categories. "Top red" thing is annoying, not sure when "top red" thing became a mocking one. I remember around 10 years ago, when players used to attend games with away fans, they were called 'Top reds". Somehow twitter world changed that to mocking one now.
 

passtheball

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Yeah, we have these options and everyone should magically fit into these categories. "Top red" thing is annoying, not sure when "top red" thing became a mocking one. I remember around 10 years ago, when players used to attend games with away fans, they were called 'Top reds". Somehow twitter world changed that to mocking one now.
10 years ago when we behaved like a big club with a genius manager, we could afford fans that only sang and supported the team. The club is a mess now, so the "Top Red" blind faith of "get behind your manager" is becoming quite counter productive. Perhaps that is why it has become an ironic term now.
 

Jippy

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Yeah, we have these options and everyone should magically fit into these categories. "Top red" thing is annoying, not sure when "top red" thing became a mocking one. I remember around 10 years ago, when players used to attend games with away fans, they were called 'Top reds". Somehow twitter world changed that to mocking one now.
Yeah the top red thing is massively stupid and annoying - someone who thinks they know best how to support the club slagging off someone else for thinking how they know best how to support the club.
 

Foxbatt

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Just to make it clear, those are not my words :D

I'm just summarizing what @Nou_Camp99 said in last few posts.
I wonder where (he or she) was before Ole got appointed as the manager? Certainly did not notice any prominent posting before that.
 

Raees

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I wonder if we are the only set of fans who are forced to get to this point where you have to start questioning whether you want positive results for your team.

Assuming fans of most clubs know that if results go down the pan, the board will sort it out anyway so you’re not overly stressed by it and can just focus on the support aspect.
 

Judas

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Surely you don't expect us not to hammer Watford? We have too much individual quality in our team.
Half the Redcafe as Manager would select a team to beat Watford.
On paper of course we should win, but there's no reason why anyone should expect us to beat them. That's how hopeless we've looked practically all season.
 

Foxbatt

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I wonder if we are the only set of fans who are forced to get to this point where you have to start questioning whether you want positive results for your team.

Assuming fans of most clubs know that if results go down the pan, the board will sort it out anyway so you’re not overly stressed by it and can just focus on the support aspect.
The issue is of expectations. Maybe Chelsea fans here could enlighten us? If we expect to be just in the top 4, then maybe it's not such a big issue.
If we expect to win PL or CL then it is. Would City and Chelsea accept a mediocre manager who is not going to win these two trophies? With Klopp winning the PL and CL, he obviously is an elite manager. Conte has already won the PL. Tuchel, the CL. Pep obviously has won both.
 

Foxbatt

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On paper of course we should win, but there's no reason why anyone should expect us to beat them. That's how hopeless we've looked practically all season.
I guess we got beaten by such teams even last season but with Ronaldo in the side I don't expect us to lose. That said if we lost I won't be shocked.
 

yumtum

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Is it really fact though or just an opinion or vague rumour?
Well no one really knows apart from the Glazers? Surely if ir I can't sk speculative questions there's hardly any reason for a message board? Besides, the timing of sacking Moyes pretty much points to top 4 being the goal.

I'm sure we'll see soon enough, as has been pointed out, I think every club, big or small would have sacked their manager after what United have been though these last few weeks (Spurs and Villa for example) - yet we seem to be holding on for something to change, is there a clause in Ole's contract saying top 4 or no payout? Again, just speculating here.
 

Jippy

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Well no one really knows apart from the Glazers? Surely if ir I can't sk speculative questions there's hardly any reason for a message board? Besides, the timing of sacking Moyes pretty much points to top 4 being the goal.

I'm sure we'll see soon enough, as has been pointed out, I think every club, big or small would have sacked their manager after what United have been though these last few weeks (Spurs and Villa for example) - yet we seem to be holding on for something to change, is there a clause in Ole's contract saying top 4 or no payout? Again, just speculating here.
Yeah speculation and rumour is fine, just if people use the word 'fact' for them, then it it becomes a shitshow.

I'm sure plenty of clubs would have sacked Ole if they were in our current situation, but people saying every club would have is just another one of those unprovable hyperbolic statements people seem to love. It is kinda funny people use Spurs' hiring and firing of Nuno as the epitome of how clubs should run their managerial appointments:lol:
 

yumtum

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Yeah speculation and rumour is fine, just if people use the word 'fact' for them, then it it becomes a shitshow.

I'm sure plenty of clubs would have sacked Ole if they were in our current situation, but people saying every club would have is just another one of those unprovable hyperbolic statements people seem to love. It is kinda funny people use Spurs' hiring and firing of Nuno as the epitome of how clubs should run their managerial appointments:lol:
Bolded - I'll choose my words carefully next time.

I'm not basing anything on Spurs hiring and Firing Nuno, it's just one of the more recent examples, I also gave Villa as an example, who's owners clearly have ambitions.

There was also the fact Barca are in dire financial straights and even they sacked their manager and hired Xavi even though their hands were financially tied (whereas ours were not).

Do you want me to list every managerial sacking for you to get the point? You seem a little obtuse, I was merely asking a question, no real need to go all "green smiley" on me because you didn't like the way I phrased the question.
 

Jippy

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Bolded - I'll choose my words carefully next time.

I'm not basing anything on Spurs hiring and Firing Nuno, it's just one of the more recent examples, I also gave Villa as an example, who's owners clearly have ambitions.

There was also the fact Barca are in dire financial straights and even they sacked their manager and hired Xavi even though their hands were financially tied (whereas ours were not).

Do you want me to list every managerial sacking for you to get the point? You seem a little obtuse, I was merely asking a question, no real need to go all "green smiley" on me because you didn't like the way I phrased the question.
Yes, that may be fair. I wasn't laughing at you, just the notion of people being jealous of Spurs.
 

passtheball

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Yeah speculation and rumour is fine, just if people use the word 'fact' for them, then it it becomes a shitshow.

I'm sure plenty of clubs would have sacked Ole if they were in our current situation, but people saying every club would have is just another one of those unprovable hyperbolic statements people seem to love. It is kinda funny people use Spurs' hiring and firing of Nuno as the epitome of how clubs should run their managerial appointments:lol:
The hiring of Nuno might have been a mistake - but really, did Spurs have much of a choice? They don't have the kind of pull we have and Conte did not want to join them in the summer and only joined them now because United allegedly passed on him.

The firing of Nuno was absolutely the right decision given that Conte finally became available.

So the comparison between Spurs and United happens because in spite of our higher stature in the game, we do not behave like a big club. Spurs, for all their mistakes, at least show ambition - and ambition may not be a sufficient condition for success, but it is certainly a necessary one.
 

Chipper

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Why would it? What's worse: being utterly humiliated by your two biggest rivals, or losing a game of football to a lowly ranked PL team?

Why should losing to Watford swing any perceived balance over the edge?
Surely there's a tipping point somewhere? I don't necessarily say it would be after Watford if we lost to them but every loss makes it more likely than the last.

There's a cumulative effect and 4 out of 5 defeats in the league is worse than 3 out of 4 just as 5 out of 6 would be worse still.

Currently we're 5 points outside the top 4, we were 10 behind when Mourinho was axed. A defeat to Watford could make it 8. Certainly pushing the same territory especially when it's Chelsea after that.

As for it being Watford specifically as a team, who knows, but if the aim is always top 4, and it looks like it often has been when it comes to managerial sackings then losing to teams we're not striving to finish ahead of in the minds of the Glazers might not be so bad, however humiliating the defeat. Losing to those at the other end of the table could well be seen as worse.

Not saying all this is the case, but it's certainly possible that defeat to Watford could be a tipping point. Of course it's all guesswork, I wouldn't be saying it surely would like the other poster, but then you seem overly confident that it wouldn't be. Nobody really knows.

Could even be that Watford isn't a final tipping point but that a bad result there means we have to beat Chelsea for him to save his job. On the other hand, beat Watford and perhaps a draw against Chelsea would be seen as enough.

Again it's guesswork, but the Watford game/result is part of his cumulative body of work so could a tipping point as much as any other match.
 

Bestietom

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Surely there's a tipping point somewhere? I don't necessarily say it would be after Watford if we lost to them but every loss makes it more likely than the last.

There's a cumulative effect and 4 out of 5 defeats in the league is worse than 3 out of 4 just as 5 out of 6 would be worse still.

Currently we're 5 points outside the top 4, we were 10 behind when Mourinho was axed. A defeat to Watford could make it 8. Certainly pushing the same territory especially when it's Chelsea after that.

As for it being Watford specifically as a team, who knows, but if the aim is always top 4, and it looks like it often has been when it comes to managerial sackings then losing to teams we're not striving to finish ahead of in the minds of the Glazers might not be so bad, however humiliating the defeat. Losing to those at the other end of the table could well be seen as worse.

Not saying all this is the case, but it's certainly possible that defeat to Watford could be a tipping point. Of course it's all guesswork, I wouldn't be saying it surely would like the other poster, but then you seem overly confident that it wouldn't be. Nobody really knows.

Could even be that Watford isn't a final tipping point but that a bad result there means we have to beat Chelsea for him to save his job. On the other hand, beat Watford and perhaps a draw against Chelsea would be seen as enough.

Again it's guesswork, but the Watford game/result is part of his cumulative body of work so could a tipping point asuch as any other.
I don't think we will make any decision on sacking Ole until after the last game of Champions League next month. ( Young Boys)
 

yumtum

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Yes, that may be fair. I wasn't laughing at you, just the notion of people being jealous of Spurs.
Thats fair enough, the day any United fan gets jealous of Spurs we're in serious trouble! :lol:
 

Nou_Camp99

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So @Nou_Camp99 disappears from the thread as soon as he's shown to be the sanctimonious hypocrite he is.
If it meant losing for a few more years to get rid of some of you cry baby spoilt glory hunting brats....it would be well worth it.

You're all having a mental breakdown over something you can't even control anyway.
 

passtheball

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If it meant losing for a few more years to get rid of some of you cry baby spoilt glory hunting brats....it would be well worth it.

You're all having a mental breakdown over something you can't even control anyway.
:lol:

I am sure the irony is utterly lose on you. Hope your bubble is at least comforting.

BIG EDIT: LOST*
 
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Regalia

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Surely there's a tipping point somewhere? I don't necessarily say it would be after Watford if we lost to them but every loss makes it more likely than the last.

There's a cumulative effect and 4 out of 5 defeats in the league is worse than 3 out of 4 just as 5 out of 6 would be worse still.

Currently we're 5 points outside the top 4, we were 10 behind when Mourinho was axed. A defeat to Watford could make it 8. Certainly pushing the same territory especially when it's Chelsea after that.

As for it being Watford specifically as a team, who knows, but if the aim is always top 4, and it looks like it often has been when it comes to managerial sackings then losing to teams we're not striving to finish ahead of in the minds of the Glazers might not be so bad, however humiliating the defeat. Losing to those at the other end of the table could well be seen as worse.

Not saying all this is the case, but it's certainly possible that defeat to Watford could be a tipping point. Of course it's all guesswork, I wouldn't be saying it surely would like the other poster, but then you seem overly confident that it wouldn't be. Nobody really knows.

Could even be that Watford isn't a final tipping point but that a bad result there means we have to beat Chelsea for him to save his job. On the other hand, beat Watford and perhaps a draw against Chelsea would be seen as enough.

Again it's guesswork, but the Watford game/result is part of his cumulative body of work so could a tipping point as much as any other match.
Indeed. To me, I say we lose whatever it takes for Ole to leave. Watford, Villareal, Chelsea so on and so forth. Even the dumb clowns on our board will know enough to realize that a big team should not be losing THAT much. We are not going anywhere as a team with Ole in charge anyway. So logically, (what I assume to be) a 9-12 point setback in the next few weeks can be more than overcome by any moderately competent new manager. We'd need to lose like 6-7 games in a row for the benefit of keeping Ole to start to outweigh the costs.

Unfortunately, any flukey draws or lucky wins in between and we're stuck with Ole at the wheel driving us straight down the ravine for the next 6 months, I feel.
 

Nou_Camp99

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:lol:

I am sure the irony is utterly lose on you. Hope your bubble is at least comforting.
Is utterly lose on me? If you're going to insult me at least check your grammar. Hahahaha

Imagine wanting the club you claim to love to lose and then saying that...... absolutely pathetic.

If we win at the weekend are you going to be miserable then as that would be the worst possible result for you, surely?
 

Godfather

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If you guarantee me Ole will be sacked if he loses to Watford then yes of course I'd take a loss.
 

Ikon

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Never want United to lose of course, but at the same time, I'd love to see these decision makers at the club with egg all over their face....?!?
 

romufc

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I always go into games hoping we win, I do not want to see us slip further down. Why hope for a loss, nothing is going to change, Ole will still be in charge even if we lose 3-0 to Watford.

However; the way we have played this season, I cannot see how we win another game in the next 5. We have been lucky in most games to get results, the luck is running out, when we play a team that is half decent we cant defend or attack.
 
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