He scored but apart from that he didn't do much
- Thread starter horsechoker
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I generally have more issue with the opposite problem, players being rated on goals and assists and ignoring everything else, often the context of the team and role they're playing within that.
I'll see a poster go "He wasn't that good that season, he had x goals in y games!" or comparing two players statistical outputs from a certain season, and these things mean very little to me. If you haven't watched much of that team, you have no idea how they usually operate and what it is they're in the team for. I'm not saying you have to religiously watch a team week in week out, but it's clear sometimes when a poster is discussing a player, his argument has come from googling that player's whoscored .
While I'm moaning, I wanna throw posters who designate certain players a leader, and others the opposite. Usually based on which player shouts the most. You're also awful.
I'll see a poster go "He wasn't that good that season, he had x goals in y games!" or comparing two players statistical outputs from a certain season, and these things mean very little to me. If you haven't watched much of that team, you have no idea how they usually operate and what it is they're in the team for. I'm not saying you have to religiously watch a team week in week out, but it's clear sometimes when a poster is discussing a player, his argument has come from googling that player's whoscored .
While I'm moaning, I wanna throw posters who designate certain players a leader, and others the opposite. Usually based on which player shouts the most. You're also awful.
Btw what is considered as good game differs too. Some people think giving away possession means bad game without considering their role.
Meh, RVN moved by Ronaldo doesn't mean shit.
Ronaldo is the GOAT category, if he's replaced by anyone else we'd be hard pressed to fill in the goals.
Ronaldo is the GOAT category, if he's replaced by anyone else we'd be hard pressed to fill in the goals.
My irk is that even though Goal isn't everything people are downplaying goals as if they're dime a dozen.
I swear people are saying Ronaldo contributes nothing but goals. FFS some even downplaying his 800 goals because somehow scoring goals is piss easy
Some people are just clueless and shits on everything if they're not Messi like.
I swear people are saying Ronaldo contributes nothing but goals. FFS some even downplaying his 800 goals because somehow scoring goals is piss easy
Some people are just clueless and shits on everything if they're not Messi like.
@Lay
And that sounds like criticism to you?
And that sounds like criticism to you?
Got to thank Didier Drogba for changing the metagame for strikers, or at least how they're judged in England. He made goal poachers look almost obsolete.
I don't think this is true
Yeah, Bergkamp goal scoring record wasn't good but he is always rated as PL great.
Re Drogba, like most players, it's a nostalgia. He was great striker but he had very erratic, inconsistent seasons. Somehow those seasons are clubbed under "He didn't score but played great".
Saha gave United supporters food for thought because he ushered in our best (most winningest) period of football this century as we grew from the foundations of what he allowed us to play and brought it to full maturity.
We had, what was for my money, the best striker since Law at the club who was essentially a sure thing practically any time he connected with even a half chance in the box, and yet we were happy to move him on because Saha's game facilitated an entire attack, made us unpredictable and moved us away from funneling chances to what was almost a single point failure.
Our attack went from narrowing to an arrow point to being three or even four-pronged as we swarmed from every angle with no clue who was even going to take the shot on at the end of play. It was a revelation and moving away from what Ruud offered made that possible.
As a club, we haven't gone back to a single point failure kind of set up for anything but the brief period with Van Persie, essentially, we diversified our meta at the very least. Personally I think we never really went back to what we used to be during Ruud's period of devastation.
Speaking of Drogba, you could argue Mark Hughes did much of the same almost two decades before by being a striker who was better at bringing others into plays than being prolific himself. They were both scorers of great goals, too.
I'd argue, if any one player altered the meta and conditions for exceptional forward play as a striker in England, it's Henry with his absurd amount of assists and involvements outside of the goalscoring aspect. He was the stick used to beat Ruud whilst they were head to head, also because of how enveloping his game was compared to Ruud's.
Ruud looked half hearted that season. And Saha was good but the likes of Rooney and Cristiano were coming along nicely.
That reminds me of when we signed Bent, who is probably the archetypical "scores but doesn't do anything else" player. His movement and finishing was top class, but if he didn't score it was almost like playing with 10 men. Good thing he scored pretty much every other game.
He was a top class player regardless, but it said everything that he became surplus to requirements barely a year later after the emergence of Benteke, who, just like his name was basically Bent + extra. Could do everything with the ball and the team just played better with him, so even when he wasn't scoring as much in his first 10-15 games, he was still preferred to Bent. Next thing you know, he started scoring for fun and the rest was history.
Henry was something else, but he always seemed like a generational player rather than a yard stick. To this day, I don't think anybody in the PL has captured his overall game. It's going to be a long time before a player will regularly be getting 40-50 goal contributions every season. It seemed like every one of his goals were worldies too. Indisputably the best player of the PL era for me.
Lineker nails it from 8:11 to 9:00
Agree.
Ruud knew the writing was on the wall. The relationship dissolved and it was clear we were moving to a dynamic system that didn't revolve around him. Rooney and him were perfectly fine together (see the Charlton goal for flawless synergy), but adding in the variable of the 3rd man in Ronaldo, who did not play by any of Ruud's 'rules', and there was pot surely coming to the boil. The side wanted to function freely without having to funnel to Ruud for a play to complete. Saha married perfectly to the chaos and allowed both Rooney and Ronaldo to grow as a pair as well as part of an attacking 3.
Drogba is just rich man's Heskey.
Bent's a good one. Perfect example of the OP. Is bizarre how much Benteke fell from grace. The way he played for you earned him the mega bucks transfer, but nearly everything he was for you just stripped from him as his confidence went down the toilet. He never recovered from that, did he?
Henry became the benchmark for what a forward should be capable of outside of scoring goals, I think. It didn't mean others had to be anywhere near as prolific as him or capable in the build up, but it did mean there was no excuse for not trying to aid the team in other ways than just waiting on others to provide you with goal-scoring opportunities. You might argue he made inverted wide-forwards a thing in the PL, too.
Rio did an interview with Lineker recently, and ol' big ears pointed out that as a striker he would get this comment but that would ignore the fact that he'd make the same run 10 times a game, 9 times out of 10 the ball wouldn't reach him, but 1 out of 10 the ball would drop at his feet for an easy goal. Each of those runs were him working his socks off and eventually getting his reward.
Modern footballs a bit different and teams don't tend to carry a poacher, they need to offer something in the build up play. But, point remains. Often the work a striker does dragging defences around or making runs into space goes unnoticed.
Edit: @Dante beat me to it, vid above
Modern footballs a bit different and teams don't tend to carry a poacher, they need to offer something in the build up play. But, point remains. Often the work a striker does dragging defences around or making runs into space goes unnoticed.
Edit: @Dante beat me to it, vid above
If we're talking about a striker, forward or any type of attack oriented player then scoring a goal is a pretty important contribution to the team. It depends of the position he plays but some players are there just to score, even if they don't get too much hold of the ball it becomes more importante they're able to convert the goals whenever an opportunity presents, that in itself can be challenging.
It also helps if they're able to hold the ball, link up and contribute to defend but it depends on how the game goes and how each team sets up but those things should be secondary attributes.
It also helps if they're able to hold the ball, link up and contribute to defend but it depends on how the game goes and how each team sets up but those things should be secondary attributes.
Torres. He's a bit shite other than scoring. But his pace, strength and finishing means a lot on helping his team. Opponent is afraid going one-on-one with him, or having high line. But understandably, this type of striker is rarely remembered fondly by football fans.
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He was bloody great at Liverpool.. Michah Richards said he was impossible to handle during his name time at Liverpool. Fantastic player before it went pear shaped.
Exactly. Fantastic goalscorer but nothing else. Just like Owen.
They had it all as strikers, the players people refer to are the likes of Lineker and Inzaghi who appeared not to have any skill other than gambling and goal hanging. You may as well talk about most striker in that case...but make no mistake Torres was a fantastic player.
Man, i frequently visited RAWK during that period, and they all acknowledged that Torres was pretty shite other than scoring. That's also why he didn't really fit in on that Spanish tiki-taka team.
But then, it's been a while, so my memory could be clouded and you're right.
Member Inzaghi?
Truth. Bruno off RVN would be awesome
Doesnt get thrown at Messi. Oh shit i created a Messi vs Ronaldo thread.
And what do we have here
If a striker needs 2 chances to score a goal then no problem.
If a striker needs 10 chances to score a goal then it is a problem, if he doesn't do much else that is.
It's a bit like Rashford dilemma. He had a poor season in terms of general play, but got some good numbers. I bet this place would be split in half when asked if Rashford had a good season.
If a striker needs 10 chances to score a goal then it is a problem, if he doesn't do much else that is.
It's a bit like Rashford dilemma. He had a poor season in terms of general play, but got some good numbers. I bet this place would be split in half when asked if Rashford had a good season.
This thread is made for Eder.
That’s isn’t true at all.
Yes. Click on the player threads - every player except probably Cavani is shit - lately this includes Bruno. I understand saying they had bad games - but they're just outright saying they're not good enough for United. The same fans then criticize Ole for being a crap manager for not taking these players that aren't good enough to win the Premier League.
“Attack the space”
In my opinion, it’s a team sport, every players contribution to the game/match day ideally matters a lot.
Some have however masked their horrid team plays with goals.
If we take away Sergio Ramos’s goals as an example, I am not too certain some people who consider him a great defender would still consider him such, a very good defender btw, a Madrid legend even.
As a leader of a team however, there are even more team responsibilities on your shoulder, coordination, game play, see meaning of skipper.
My major challenge with Ronaldo has always been, when he is not on the scoresheet, you can argue he had a horrible game, there lies the difference with sometimes someone like Kane, on his good days, he could have had no goals but could string up 4 assists.(trying not to bring the Messi into this conversation
If Ronaldo actually did play for the teams as against the teams playing for him, his stats wouldn’t be that padded.
One of the reasons I don’t consider Lampard a great midfielder. Take away his goals and he wouldn’t be anywhere near Scholes or Stevie
I judge players by their roles and their ability to execute that role, not scoring jammy goals around the season.
Some have however masked their horrid team plays with goals.
If we take away Sergio Ramos’s goals as an example, I am not too certain some people who consider him a great defender would still consider him such, a very good defender btw, a Madrid legend even.
As a leader of a team however, there are even more team responsibilities on your shoulder, coordination, game play, see meaning of skipper.
My major challenge with Ronaldo has always been, when he is not on the scoresheet, you can argue he had a horrible game, there lies the difference with sometimes someone like Kane, on his good days, he could have had no goals but could string up 4 assists.(trying not to bring the Messi into this conversation
If Ronaldo actually did play for the teams as against the teams playing for him, his stats wouldn’t be that padded.
One of the reasons I don’t consider Lampard a great midfielder. Take away his goals and he wouldn’t be anywhere near Scholes or Stevie
I judge players by their roles and their ability to execute that role, not scoring jammy goals around the season.