In fairness Jeremy Hunt and Corbyn have both come out against Trump today over his Tweets.While the UK polititians will stay silent while they bash their own NHS. Not very patriotic that one.
Already seen Corbyn Tweet, good for him, even if I don't agree with all his politics. Regardless of that, it is the job of polititians in the UK to defend their NHS, even the ones who don't like it. Not the first time this smear campaign starts at FOX (Murdoch), wonder why he doesn't try it at Sky News.In fairness Jeremy Hunt and Corbyn have both come out against Trump today over his Tweets.
He would have more chances with the American right wing movement imo. His wife is German and probably he has a good pension from the EU Parliament who he hates so much.And it's no secret Farage wants to move to the USA. He's always been a hypocrite with his foreign wife and job in the European Parliament.
10% = 35 million people, that's almost the entire population of Spain or Argentina, not good enough for a country like the United States should be.In all fairness most Americans do have better healthcare than the NHS provides. The problem with the US system is 10% of the population don't have sufficient coverage and thousands are forced to file bankruptcy because of medical costs. Americans treat healthcare like going to the store. You book your own specialist visit. See them within a week or two and usually the follow up is extremely swift. I have gone from making a call to an orthopedic office to having knee surgery in literally two weeks. That was for a fairly minor non life threatening issue.
So in the context of what Trump is posting it will resonate with many Americans. It just creates fear that a single payer system does not fix the problems.
They might receive better coverage, but considering the amount that healthcare costs they're probably not getting better value for what they're paying, and often have to live with perpetual fear that if they're struggling for money they won't be able to afford it. The beauty of the UK system is that you can always afford it even when you're having financial troubles because everyone pulls together and contributes.In all fairness most Americans do have better healthcare than the NHS provides. The problem with the US system is 10% of the population don't have sufficient coverage and thousands are forced to file bankruptcy because of medical costs. Americans treat healthcare like going to the store. You book your own specialist visit. See them within a week or two and usually the follow up is extremely swift. I have gone from making a call to an orthopedic office to having knee surgery in literally two weeks. That was for a fairly minor non life threatening issue.
So in the context of what Trump is posting it will resonate with many Americans. It just creates fear that a single payer system does not fix the problems.
I read that tweet in Donald's Trump's voice when he said 'Wrong' to Hillary Clinton in the debatesTweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
10% = 35 million people, that's almost the entire population of Spain or Argentina, not good enough for a country like the United States should be.
I've read many, many accounts by Americans who have experienced the HNS that disagree with you.In all fairness most Americans do have better healthcare than the NHS provides.
If you have insurance that is not really a concern TBH. You know your monthly premiums and your maximum out of pocket expenses are capped. You just have to be savvy about things like healthcare spending accounts and networks. Personally I prefer living with the knowledge I can get pretty much anything I want done by who I want when I want than worrying about out of pockets. However I would prefer that all Americans had healthcare insurance or access to a good single payer system without it being a significant financial burden.They might receive better coverage, but considering the amount that healthcare costs they're probably not getting better value for what they're paying, and often have to live with perpetual fear that if they're struggling for money they won't be able to afford it. The beauty of the UK system is that you can always afford it even when you're having financial troubles because everyone pulls together and contributes.
Plus the healthcare itself is still very good anyway. Problems are there, yeah, but it's still a superb service.
All my family are in the UK. I lived there 35 years. My wife worked in the NHS 18 years, and now 18 years in healthcare here.I've read many, many accounts by Americans who have experienced the HNS that disagree with you.
Exactly. I'm sick (excuse the pun) of all the bullshit. US citizens deserve better but some are too selfish and others too easily swayed by bullshit. The rest (the majority)have to suffer either without heathcare or with crippling costs, and It's insane in a so called civilised country.
I didn't say you hadn't experienced the NHS. You sound like you are fairly wealthy and capable of affording whatever healthcare you need in the US though when and where you want it, as you said. Many Americans writing on the subject may not be as fortunate as you, while still not falling into that 10% uninsured catagory. Others also point to some experiences with the NHS that they said were far smoother, friendler and faster than they'd expect back home, even with good health insurance.All my family are in the UK. I lived there 35 years. My wife worked in the NHS 18 years, and now 18 years in healthcare here.
Exactly. It's ok for those that can afford it but even then they are paying through the nose. In essence all US citizens are paying for private care. The equivalent of Bupa. Those without suffer the most. At least in the rest of the civilised world and especially here in the UK we all get the same care unless we choose to pay for private care.I've read many, many accounts by Americans who have experienced the HNS that disagree with you.
Agree with your sentiment at the end. However don't try and spin the US system to the point where its only the wealthy that benefits. Its the majority of Americans that get very good healthcare. If you're on average earnings or less the percentage you pay is greater than the UK. If you're on average earnings or more the actual costs different narrows significantly. If you'r a working professional like a Nurse, in IT or have a decent office job the percentage of earnings going to healthcare is similar to the UK.Exactly. It's ok for those that can afford it but even then they are paying through the nose. In essence all US citizens are paying for private care. The equivalent of Bupa. Those without suffer the most. At least in the rest of the civilised world and especially here in the UK we all get the same care unless we choose to pay for private care.
I wouldn't ever want a system like the USA has, in my opinion it's a human rights violation for many.
I agree. Then people complain that uninsured people use the emergency room like the Dr's office.Exactly. It's ok for those that can afford it but even then they are paying through the nose. In essence all US citizens are paying for private care. The equivalent of Bupa. Those without suffer the most. At least in the rest of the civilised world and especially here in the UK we all get the same care unless we choose to pay for private care.
I wouldn't ever want a system like the USA has, in my opinion it's a human rights violation for many.
Yeah, I feel most people in the states who are employed and middle class or above can get very good health insurance through their employers. Although the system is still pretty lopsidedly tilted towards insurance, medical, drug, and pharma companies and away form patients.Agree with your sentiment at the end. However don't try and spin the US system to the point where its only the wealthy that benefits. Its the majority of Americans that can very good healthcare. If you're on average earnings or less the percentage you pay is greater than the UK. If you're on average earnings or more the actual costs different narrows significantly. If you'r a working professional like a Nurse, in IT or have a decent office job the percentage of earnings going to healthcare is similar to the UK.
One more point the very poor that qualify for Medicaid and the over 65s that qualify for Medicare get fairly comparable coverage to the NHS for free.
I agree. The US's biggest problem is the amount of the per capita spend that does not go on direct healthcare costs. Most socialize systems are down to under 10% on Admin and overhead, whereas the US its a crazy 40-45%.Yeah, I feel most people in the states who are employed and middle class or above can get very good health insurance through their employers. Although the system is still pretty lopsidedly tilted towards insurance, medical, drug, and pharma companies and away form patients.
It really doesn't work like that. Health insurance covers prescriptions. It also covers all costs when you have surgery. The maximum out of pockets also apply for out of network so if you did need a rare procedure the costs are capped. Many companies give more subsidies to lower income workers. I have worked at place where the people under $50k a year pay much smaller premiums.You just said yourself if you are on average or less then you pay more than the UK. Then you add in prescription costs and medical bills for operations that aren't covered by the insurance. Pre existing conditions etc.
Christ! What a cnut! People in the UK protest to save the NHS, not to destroy it, YOU feckING CLOWN!
I disagree. Some of the bias and lack of objectivity on here clouds peoples minds. People tend to have poorly informed perceptions about things. Its the same sort of ignorance that leads Americans to think Brits have bad teeth and no dental care.You are constantly defending him, it shouldn't feel unusual to you.
What a shock.I disagree.
Actually I think the name Recafe is pretty accurate. The interesting thing with the political compass when I get GOP friends to do it they don't score far off where many Dems score.I believe we've had few of those... This is libcafe you know?
Yet in the UK everyone gets treated whether they are rich, poor, destitute or from another country and without money or insurance. Thank God for the NHS. Couldn’t bear to live in a country where people didn’t automatically get the healthcare that they needed. It’s nauseating just to think about it. Not to mention cruel, heartless and uncivilised.Agree with your sentiment at the end. However don't try and spin the US system to the point where its only the wealthy that benefits. Its the majority of Americans that get very good healthcare. If you're on average earnings or less the percentage you pay is greater than the UK. If you're on average earnings or more the actual costs different narrows significantly. If you'r a working professional like a Nurse, in IT or have a decent office job the percentage of earnings going to healthcare is similar to the UK.
One more point the very poor that qualify for Medicaid and the over 65s that qualify for Medicare get fairly comparable coverage to the NHS for free.
Its not even okay for those of us who can. (I had a silver plan under BCBS, a reputable company) Endless amounts of paperwork, worrying about in network / out of network, pre-existing conditions, lifetime caps, having people be tied to their employers in order to have insurance, prescription drug prices, lack of rural care, etc. The entire system is irreparably broken.Exactly. It's ok for those that can afford it but even then they are paying through the nose. In essence all US citizens are paying for private care. The equivalent of Bupa. Those without suffer the most. At least in the rest of the civilised world and especially here in the UK we all get the same care unless we choose to pay for private care.
I wouldn't ever want a system like the USA has, in my opinion it's a human rights violation for many.
I agree completely and the point I was making which has been well discussed on here already is that it is not true that insurance covers everything. Many get financially crippled because of pre-existing conditions. Although Obamacare tried to eradicate it, insurance companies will try their hardest to get out of paying and those without insurance get killed on ridiculous prescription charges. Also many reports saying some drugs arent covered at all. Then you get stories like the odious little shit who increased the cost of AIDS and HIV drugs by 500% or making epi-pens unaffordable. We had people on here saying how much their pills cost them and it was ridiculous. Completely unaffordable where working families literally had to choose between food or medicine.Yet in the UK everyone gets treated whether they are rich, poor, destitute or from another country and without money or insurance. Thank God for the NHS. Couldn’t bear to live in a country where people didn’t automatically get the healthcare that they needed. It’s nauseating just to think about it. Not to mention cruel, heartless and uncivilised.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Exactly. But others have said this is not the case when it quite clearly is. You have discussed this endlessly as have others here too. I just hope you guys all get a fairer system after the next election cycle. It really does seem like it's what the Dems should run on. The will of the people seems to be behind it now too. One poll I saw earlier was around 70% now back a form of single payer.Its not even okay for those of us who can. (I had a silver plan under BCBS, a reputable company) Endless amounts of paperwork, worrying about in network / out of network, pre-existing conditions, lifetime caps, having people be tied to their employers in order to have insurance, prescription drug prices, lack of rural care, etc. The entire system is irreparably broken.
Yet in the UK everyone gets treated whether they are rich, poor, destitute or from another country and without money or insurance. Thank God for the NHS. Couldn’t bear to live in a country where people didn’t automatically get the healthcare that they needed. It’s nauseating just to think about it. Not to mention cruel, heartless and uncivilised.
That’s because the 2 main US parties aren’t that far apart on the political spectrum.Actually I think the name Recafe is pretty accurate. The interesting thing with the political compass when I get GOP friends to do it they don't score far off where many Dems score.
You will also be very surprised to hear US hospitals have to provide certain services like ER regardless of ability to pay. If you have insurance that pays, if you are truly poor medicaid gets billed. The group that do need some protection are the ones earning above the medicaid limit with a job without insurance. Extending medicaid and/or making employer provided insurance mandatory. The US system has many flaws but its not all doom and gloom.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/24/us-healthcare-republican-bill-no-coverage-deathThe researchers found that a lack of health insurance had a mortality hazard ratio of 1.40. In other words, they concluded that Americans without health insurance were 40% more likely to die than those with it, even after taking into account the individual’s “gender, age, race/ethnicity, poverty income ratio, education, unemployment, smoking, regular alcohol use, self-rated health, physician-rated health and body mass index”.
The researchers calculated that in 2005, lack of health insurance resulted in 44,789 deaths of Americans age 18 to 64
I'm actually surprised it's as low as 40%.
I quoted you because of the line about treatment via ER. I then offered Objective and Pragmatic analysis of why that was not an actual alternative.Not even sure why you quoted me and posted that because I said the same thing.
"The group that do need some protection are the ones earning above the medicaid limit with a job without insurance. Extending medicaid and/or making employer provided insurance mandatory."
That highlights exactly what I said on the previous page. People are way to focused on subjective analysis than being objective or pragmatic.
Well there is a first.....a Guardian article being offered as objective analysis.I quoted you because of the line about treatment via ER. I then offered Objective and Pragmatic analysis of why that was not an actual alternative.
The source is a study from Harvard with data from the CDC. Did you even read the article or did you just want to repeat your opinions?Well there is a first.....a Guardian article being offered as objective analysis.
The US healthcare system, has many flaws, and something needs to be done to protect the people without insurance.
The source is a study from Harvard with data from the CDC. Did you even read the article or did you just want to repeat your opinions?
I found most of the series including the Trump episode boring, but the individual episodes on the pharma company and HSBC were excellent.Comments from Dirty Money documentary-maker Alex Gibney:
The final film in the series focuses on Trump, who has been covered endlessly over the past couple of years. What more was there to add?
The essence of Trump’s appeal was that he’s a great businessman, so therefore he’ll be a great president. We thought, OK then, let’s take a focused look at what he was like as a businessman.