Heaven and Yoro at full back?

I remember one of Yoro’s first matches he played as a right sided centre back in a back 5. He was destroyed by the opposition forward/winger for pace in the right back position. It was painful to watch.
Does anyone else remember this or just a figment of my imagination?
 
Tompo said:
I remember one of Yoro’s first matches he played as a right sided centre back in a back 5. He was destroyed by the opposition forward/winger for pace in the right back position. It was painful to watch.
Does anyone else remember this or just a figment of my imagination?
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It was against Southampton and he was schooled by Kamaldeen Sulemana. That doesn't mean he cannot play in the position.
 
Not crazy.

Yoro looked promising at RB in the pre-season, and Heaven probably would have started his career at LB at most sides, as he doesn't really read danger well and struggles in the air at times, but he's fairly athletic and is confident on the ball.

I think best case-scenario this year is we buy an LB, Yoro straight out wins the RCB job, and then we buy well at RB and a CB next summer, and that's a new back 4 with Licha and De Ligt still around, Dalot a good backup RB (Maz sold probably) and Maguire moved on. Heaven on loan maybe, or competing with Amass at LB in the summer and one wins the job if Shaw isn't kept around for one more year (and I think it's more likely he just signs a multi-season deal with some lesser Prem team or abroad, maybe one playing 3 at the back).
 
Why does anyone think Yoro would be better than Dalot at anything? And Heaven? He's a bit of a disaster on and off the ball. He's not ready to play regularly. Neither of them provide close to what Dalot or Shaw do at this point.
 
Awful Idea!
Both were brought to the club as CBs and that is their best position.
Neither are fast enough or have the footwork to play an attacking role and I have not seen anything to say either are good crossers of the ball.
This idea is up there with playing Sancho as a #10!
 
Just because some CBs can play at full back to a good level doesn't mean all of them can. The times we've tried it in injury crisis it's looked a bit of a horror show and they look a fish out of water, I remember Bailly was terrible there and Lindelof too.

There's really no evidence Yoro or Heaven can play to a serviceable level there as it's not been tried. I'd only resort to it if injuries dictate that we have no choice.

I also have this nagging feeling that Smalling and Jones' development wasn't particularly helped by sticking them at right back so much in the early days.

Lastly, one of the major weaknesses in this team is the lack of attacking quality from full back and I'd be shocked if Yoro and Heaven help with that.
 
If we are not getting new LB, Heaven will play lots of games in that position by default.
 
Dominos said:
Just because some CBs can play at full back to a good level doesn't mean all of them can. The times we've tried it in injury crisis it's looked a bit of a horror show and they look a fish out of water, I remember Bailly was terrible there and Lindelof too.

There's really no evidence Yoro or Heaven can play to a serviceable level there as it's not been tried. I'd only resort to it if injuries dictate that we have no choice.

I also have this nagging feeling that Smalling and Jones' development wasn't particularly helped by sticking them at right back so much in the early days.

Lastly, one of the major weaknesses in this team is the lack of attacking quality from full back and I'd be shocked if Yoro and Heaven help with that.
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Bailly was terrible full stop. Lindelof is the least aggressive defender you can find. Wes Brown was excellent for us at RB. We've not tried it loads. But did you notice the reports about "Baleba could even plug the LB situation if needs be"? Heaven for my money lacks concentration. He is composed on the ball, aggressive, physically strong and quick, but he needs games.

We do not have any attacking quality at full back with the actual full backs at the club. Dalot is spoken of here as if people have not been watching him for years, just because Mazraoui had a nothing performance against Hull. I, however, remember what he's like and I'd much rather try Yoro out as he's actually a player I want to see get game time because he's got a ceiling that allows for him to become good enough for where we want to be. Probably the same with Heaven. And all the other reasons listed before.

I'm not saying I want us to bin the others, just try this out.
 
Heaven doesn't look like he can play at LB to me. He hasnt really played there as far as a I am aware.

Yoro can probably play RB but I am not sure if it will be a significant improvement over Dalot.
 
They will get plenty of game time at CB when de Ligt and Martinez are both injured.
 
Bondi77 said:
Awful Idea!
Both were brought to the club as CBs and that is their best position.
Neither are fast enough or have the footwork to play an attacking role and I have not seen anything to say either are good crossers of the ball.
This idea is up there with playing Sancho as a #10!
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This type of argument makes me laugh.

CB’s should only play the CB role? Good job SAF didn’t agree with you as I remember Silvestre, Brown, O’Shea & Heinze all playing at FB plenty of times and in important games to get experience and time on the pitch. CB was their preferred role but still managed to do a very good job.

Are Dalot, Maz & Shaw good enough to play an attacking role? Of course not.

You’ve not seen anything because they haven’t been tried there enough, neither has Dorgu.
 
ManRant said:
Just after 1 game, we already ready to give up on our fbs? Dalot hasn’t even start a game yet.
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Dalot has been at the club 8 years. I think we’re all well aware of what we’re getting from him by now.
 
Maybe one of them at a time. I'd lean toward Yoro at RB and Dorgu as LB. We can even let shaw be CB if Martinez not ready. Let LB have more licenses to go and down more than RB.

However, this only happens if we have no more incoming and have to make do with some injuries like last match. Last match the fitness and intensity are just not there. Almost half of first 11 are just coming back from World Cup break and getting up to speed, fitness and intensity of the PL.
 
So two players who can't hold their own in their natural position should be shifted to full back? I don't like how it sounds.

We need specialists not improvisations.
 
I like flexibility in my team and players as I think it allows for tactical variation and adaptability. I think both players can and have played in other roles and as others have mentioned some of Uniteds most successful teams have have had this dynamic within the squad.

Both of them have pace, can progress the ball to a decent degree and have the energy to get up and down the pitch regularly. Of course both would have to gain experience with positioning and timing as they don’t play there regularly but for some folk to dismiss it as irrational is a surprise.


I thought Yoro did well in pre season at right back and know Heaven played left back at times for Arsenal youth teams. I think both of them are future centre backs but gaining match experience and adding another string to their bows could be a bonus to both them and the team as a whole.

Both are still young and developing so I’m willing to give them as much scope for improvement rather than assuming their current limitations are set as is.
 
Carlsen19 said:
Dalot has been at the club 8 years. I think we’re all well aware of what we’re getting from him by now.
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He's also the most reliable player in our back 4 and the most well rounded for modern football in England
 
Borninthe80ts said:
I like flexibility in my team and players as I think it allows for tactical variation and adaptability. I think both players can and have played in other roles and as others have mentioned some of Uniteds most successful teams have have had this dynamic within the squad.

Both of them have pace, can progress the ball to a decent degree and have the energy to get up and down the pitch regularly. Of course both would have to gain experience with positioning and timing as they don’t play there regularly but for some folk to dismiss it as irrational is a surprise.


I thought Yoro did well in pre season at right back and know Heaven played left back at times for Arsenal youth teams. I think both of them are future centre backs but gaining match experience and adding another string to their bows could be a bonus to both them and the team as a whole.

Both are still young and developing so I’m willing to give them as much scope for improvement rather than assuming their current limitations are set as is.
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100%

IMV this is more about giving them game time whilst trying to ameliorate some of the collective limitations in the team, without too much of a downside. Certainly with Yoro he is and will be a centre back, but if he can do both these roles he'll be even more valuable. And they will both learn faster this way than if they stay on the bench.

I think Yoro already looks like he could be a good option at RB. But it is at LB where we struggle more with a player who just can't handle it the role, good as he is technically and strong as he is physically, Shaw doesn't have the legs what is required there, but if we share the role with Heaven maybe Shaw can manage better.
 
Bastian said:
100%

IMV this is more about giving them game time whilst trying to ameliorate some of the collective limitations in the team, without too much of a downside. Certainly with Yoro he is and will be a centre back, but if he can do both these roles he'll be even more valuable. And they will both learn faster this way than if they stay on the bench.

I think Yoro already looks like he could be a good option at RB. But it is at LB where we struggle more with a player who just can't handle it the role, good as he is technically and strong as he is physically, Shaw doesn't have the legs what is required there, but if we share the role with Heaven maybe Shaw can manage better.
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Yeah to me I’m looking to accelerate the development of both over the next year as much as possible with both minutes on the pitch but also potentially a variety of tactical challenges. This is how player’s progress after all. Especially in regards to the centre back situation as a whole. If we can get one of them consistent through out the season I think it’ll change how we recruit next season too.

I actually suggested Heaven as a left back a while ago in regards to the exact scenario of giving Shaw a rest to preserve him throughout the season. I will say if we do play one of them in the full back position I’d like to balance it out on the other flank. It could potentially also help balance using some like Amass with Yoro tucked in opposite.
 
Let’s see how the tried and trusted Dalot and Shaw do today, should be an easy enough game for them to defend and get up and provide options in attack.
 
Borninthe80ts said:
Yeah to me I’m looking to accelerate the development of both over the next year as much as possible with both minutes on the pitch but also potentially a variety of tactical challenges. This is how player’s progress after all. Especially in regards to the centre back situation as a whole. If we can get one of them consistent through out the season I think it’ll change how we recruit next season too.

I actually suggested Heaven as a left back a while ago in regards to the exact scenario of giving Shaw a rest to preserve him throughout the season. I will say if we do play one of them in the full back position I’d like to balance it out on the other flank. It could potentially also help balance using some like Amass with Yoro tucked in opposite.
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Yeah. I'd quite like to see them start together, but it's less likely. That being said, Shaw doesn't provide that attacking threat, Mazraoui doesn't provide it, and Dalot has the stamina and pace to provide it but not the decision making or the first touch or technical level. So I don't really see a huge downside in an attacking sense.
 
Bastian said:
Yeah. I'd quite like to see them start together, but it's less likely. That being said, Shaw doesn't provide that attacking threat, Mazraoui doesn't provide it, and Dalot has the stamina and pace to provide it but not the decision making or the first touch or technical level. So I don't really see a huge downside in an attacking sense.
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I wouldn’t be against them starting together in certain situations but I do like a full back that can cross regularly. I was pleasantly surprised about Yoro overlapping well in pre season as I said so you may be right ultimately as we do lack consistency in the full back areas.
 
Borninthe80ts said:
I wouldn’t be against them starting together in certain situations but I do like a full back that can cross regularly. I was pleasantly surprised about Yoro overlapping well in pre season as I said so you may be right ultimately as we do lack consistency in the full back areas.
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Crossing is only an asset when it isn't poor. Shaw cannot make those overlapping runs, if it means he has to track back the length of the pitch, which unfortunately is part of the role. Dalot's crossing is unusually poor for a full back who can actually strike the ball, but it's more his decision making that's holding him back. Mazraoui I can't remember putting in too many crosses. Like I've said, it's not like we are losing much from the attacking third.
 
Maybe im just old school, but i want to see full backs overlap, cross the ball and be an attacking threat. Especially in todays football where wide forwards are inverted and are reluctant to cross from the byline.

Maybe the four center backs word for City or Arsenal, with one of the full backs stepping into the center mid pivot, but that doest feel like we could do that with Yoro or Heaven.
 
Bastian said:
Crossing is only an asset when it isn't poor. Shaw cannot make those overlapping runs, if it means he has to track back the length of the pitch, which unfortunately is part of the role. Dalot's crossing is unusually poor for a full back who can actually strike the ball, but it's more his decision making that's holding him back. Mazraoui I can't remember putting in too many crosses. Like I've said, it's not like we are losing much from the attacking third.
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Dalot's crossing used to be poor, but he's improved it over the last year or two and it's now decent. Put in about four good crosses today, two of which picked out players at the back post and two of which were into a good position but nobody attacked it.
 
Tallis said:
Heaven doesn't look like he can play at LB to me. He hasnt really played there as far as a I am aware.

Yoro can probably play RB but I am not sure if it will be a significant improvement over Dalot.
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Hope the plan for next summer is to sign Kayode and Williams then would be able to move on Dalot
 
Bastian said:
Crossing is only an asset when it isn't poor. Shaw cannot make those overlapping runs, if it means he has to track back the length of the pitch, which unfortunately is part of the role. Dalot's crossing is unusually poor for a full back who can actually strike the ball, but it's more his decision making that's holding him back. Mazraoui I can't remember putting in too many crosses. Like I've said, it's not like we are losing much from the attacking third.
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True, but I did mean more who we might buy/use as full backs going forward. Don’t mind Yoro or Heaven there regularly but yeah, even if the cross is in a good area I’d like that threat consistently. Dalot should have more assists but is erratic and can lack composure. I like him though. Shaw definitely struggles to get back but i think it’s a decision/concentration issue there. Be selective when overlapping. And Maz, yeah it’s not his game but feel he could do better too.
 
Bastian said:
I would really like to see us try this out. At the same time. They are both quick. They are both taller than the actual full backs we have. And they both need plenty of game time to continue developing. This works for Arsenal quite well, but I think with Heaven coming through the academy at Arsenal as a midfielder and Yoro having already shown in pre-season that he can play at RB, I think this is an interesting option to explore. It will raise the average height of the team, add more pace and defensive nous into the back four, and Heaven can maybe move into DM when in possession or allow Martinez to do so providing cover.

I've held the contradictory opinion that I don't think Heaven and Yoro work as a central pairing due to their lack of aerial ability, whilst also wanting us to just bite the bullet and see what they're made of, both to get them the game time needed and to allow us to field a higher line. But now, this is my latest craze. Some people on here suggesting the same as well.

Ideally, this would be a back four featuring De Ligt and Martinez, with Maguire on the bench.

--------------------------------------------Lammens
Yoro-----------------------De Ligt------------------Martinez-------------Heaven
-------------------------------Mainoo----------------Baleba/Santos
Amad----------------------------------Bruno------------------------Cunha
----------------------------------------Sesko/Mbeumo

I think this backline might even be able to facilitate playing Tielemans and Bruno in the same XI.

Who is up for this?
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Yoro has been really good, so far. Yet to see how he deals with tricky wingers there as that was a big weakness if him when played in Amorim's system. Heaven I don't think will do well there, should just stick to CB. The way Arsenal plays is very different, and while they are "CBs" they way they move with/without the ball is akin to attacking players.

Califiori is so good with the ball and White pretty decent too.
 
I want Heaven to play LB and I want us to sign Balde only to play him as LW. This bank holiday weekend being over is hitting me hard.
 
I'd hope the idea is to try Heaven out there rather than play Baleba at left back.
 
Bastian said:
I'd hope the idea is to try Heaven out there rather than play Baleba at left back.
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The problem is that we can't know if any of the LB options are really going to pan out, and we know that Shaw isn't good enough. It's gambling. Mazrouai probably isn't the answer. Dorgu might work but might be a defensive liability as well. Heaven hasn't really played there much for the first team. Let's hope we get lucky and someone over performs there. Personally I'd like to see Dorgu against most teams where we have a bit of license to get forward. He seems like the least bad option in most situations to me. I'd rather see him there than Shaw.
 
talking robot said:
The problem is that we can't know if any of the LB options are really going to pan out, and we know that Shaw isn't good enough. It's gambling. Mazrouai probably isn't the answer. Dorgu might work but might be a defensive liability as well. Heaven hasn't really played there much for the first team. Let's hope we get lucky and someone over performs there. Personally I'd like to see Dorgu against most teams where we have a bit of license to get forward. He seems like the least bad option in most situations to me. I'd rather see him there than Shaw.
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In terms of Shaw, Mazra, Dalot, I’d prefer Dorgu there. But the idea is to develop him as an attacking player which I’m more than fine with. Heaven, like Yoro, will need games to develop and he has already got a foundation as a midfielder. I think it has to be tried out over options that we know now are not above average.
 
Not both at the same time. Carrick seems to employ the old Fergie / Meulensteen thing of having 1 overlapping style full back while the other one tucks in. I thought Yoro looked decent as a rb in pre-season. Don't forget, Phil Jones and Chris Smalling were mainly played at right back before they were then moved in centre back when the older centre backs had retired or moved on.
 
Doesnt everyone remember Yoro got done at RB last season. He cant handle pacy wingers at all. Normally you would say tbat a CB needs experience. But there are plenty of young CBs doing the business - Cubarsi, Huijsen, Jaquet looks good etc. I know that players have different trajectories but he's had his down year. Needs to step up and show what he is all about at CB.
 
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