Heaven Draft QF - Enigma vs Pat Mustard

Who will win this draft match?


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Synco

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Team Enigma ....................................... Team Mustard
..


Enigma Tactics


Formation: 4-4-2 / 4-3-3 hybrid

Defence:
Krol
is in attacking role, overlapping Cruyff, a much familiar one at both national and club level. Don Elias is bossing the central midfield with Oscar Ruggeri as the rugged stopper next to him. On the right we have Vogts in his natural balanced role.

Midfield:
Bryan Robson
comes to the fore offering a nice upgrade on Souness and a one man engine Davids form the solid base of the central midfield. Robson basically will replicate passing ability and will initiate the play from deep whilst taking up the more creative role whilst Davids motor will not leave much time on the ball for the opposition creative force. Beckham is in his natural right flank role whilst Cruyff is our creative outlet in the attacking third, playing in free role.

Attack:
Eusebio
and Seeler form a dynamic duo that is able to pull defenders wide as either of them is able to also operate on the flanks and leave space for onrushing Cruyff. The pair of them are very mobile and pacy strikers that will give the opposition back line nightmares especially on the back foot. Seeler also gives Becks a great target in the box and being able to get to the end of one of the best crossers and passers the game has seen.

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Pat Mustard Tactics

Formation/Tactical Approach: Possession-based 4-3-3

We shift away from the Manchester United 2008 theme of the last match, to the more familiar terrain for our great metronome Xavi of a possession-based 4-3-3 with a high defensive line and an aggressive high press. The basic defensive structure from the last match remains: two highly mobile CBs flanked by an aggressive attacking LB in Evra on one side, and the more reserved Bergomi on the other wing. The big change is the defensive line pushing up in support of the high press, and to that end there's a plenitude of recovery pace across the board. Another feature of the previous match was the interchanging of the attackers, and this will be ramped up in this match. New signing Stoichkov was lethal off both wings and will be encouraged to work off both flanks. Rummenigge, similarly, was effective across the entire frontline, and in Tostao we have the selfless glue player who will not only provide silky approach play but will be happy to drag defenders away with his off-the-ball movement.

The Don drops back into an attacking #8 role alongside Xavi, to better reflect the box-to-box nature of his game. Rewatching the famous EC final vs Eintracht Frankfurt, one of the more amusingly striking aspects was his visible exasperation at his teammates lack of movement. No such worries here for the great man, as he'll have Xavi and the underrated ball-player Stielike to bounce passes off in the build up, and a kaleidoscope of movement in the attacking line ahead of him.
 

Šjor Bepo

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im really not sure Don would be happy with Xavi running everything next to him
 

Physiocrat

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@Enigma_87 How much do you expect Robson to get forward? Of the B2Bs he seems very much on the attacking end, more like Matthaus. He seems an odd choice here. To me you need more of a DM/DLP who can pick up from deep to progress the play so in that regard I think Robson is a tactical downgrade on Souness.

I also on the other hand agree with Sjor Di Stefano and Xavi. Also Xavi might need to drift wider than he would ideally like as Bergomi won't own the right flank like Dani Alves would.
 

Synco

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During RR I wondered if Seeler is really necessary when already having Eto'o - but seeing it here on the sheet, it's fantastic and yet another level. Some serious 1966 vibes too.

Love the choice of Tostao by Pat, he makes that front four work really well.

Will think about the issues brought up by others.
 

Šjor Bepo

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agreed with physio, midfield looked better with Souness in it. Also Cruyff looks a bit strange in the team, not really feeling him with the rest of the team tbh
 

Synco

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Bergomi won't own the right flank like Dani Alves would.
Definitely not in an Dani Alves kind of way, but after watching him closer for the last draft, I think he may make a seriously good all-action, overlapping RB with buildup duties. Needs further research on my part, but he did love to go on these irresistable overlapping/attacking runs, and wasn't averse to higher positioning/combination play in possession either. The reasons he did this occasionally rather than constantly seem more tactical to me than an actual limitation in ability or desire.

But I'd understand if people are sceptical about this, as his role in its entirety was certainly quite different back then. (I also guess in modern days he'd most likely be a CB.)
 

Jim Beam

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Have to think a bit, but at first sight I love the transformation of Pat team from the 1st round. Have some doubts about Di Stefano - Xavi, but my word if it clicks. The front line is just perfect (Tostao is a brilliant pick) and ready made to press all day.
Stielike is someone who probably makes it slightly more questionable considering that you already have Xavi - Di Stefano midfield. Naturally you would love to have someone who will receive the ball and release it in a second and am not sure Stielike is that man. Which adds more question to already mentioned dynamics, but I think those two (in isolation and if we move Stielike out of the pic for a second) can work together contrary to previous posts. And there is also a valid question of Bergomi at RB in this system as Physio mentioned. I see him more well-rounded then what is his perception, but Dani Alves type he is not.

Enigma's team is also better than in the 1st round as the team with Eto'o and Eusebio on each side almost cried for Cruyff as a false 9. However, this option with Seeler is much better and suddenly even Beckham makes sense.

Pffffff, it's a tough one. If Pat clicks, Cruyff might get frustrated with the lack of possession in what is already a pretty direct team with now Robson in it. Will read a bit more thoughts, it's a head-scratcher atm mostly because I really like both teams, but also some elements in them are putting me off.
 

Synco

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Not quite getting the Alves comments, btw - wouldn't Evra + Bergomi be some kind of mirrored Alves + Abidal setup? (Of course Alves isn't copyable 1:1.) Pep certainly hasn't been shy to play a technically sound CB/FB hybrid out wide, like Aké recently.

Or is there something about the more offensive FB specifically playing on Xavi's side?
 

Jim Beam

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Not quite getting the Alves comments, btw - wouldn't Evra + Bergomi be some kind of mirrored Alves + Abidal setup? (Of course Alves isn't copyable 1:1.) Pep certainly hasn't been shy to play a technically sound CB/FB hybrid out wide, like Aké recently.

Or is there something about the more offensive FB specifically playing on Xavi's side?
Well, on Abidal's side was Iniesta who did drift into left channels while Xavi's side was filled with Dani Alves bombing up and down. It also did provide Xavi with another highly creative outlet next to him which made the whole team much more fluid. Now, Xavi didn't have the same creative outlet for Spain at RB (Ramos/Arbeloa) and it still worked, but the end product was much more suffocating in terms of playing style. It's not only because of RB position, but I think Xavi loved Alves presence on that right side.

I don't think it's such a big issue as I rate Bergomi's all around game (and there is Evra on the other side), but Dani Alves at his peak was something else in terms as an attacking output.
 

Synco

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Well, on Abidal's side was Iniesta who did drift into left channels while Xavi's side was filled with Dani Alves bombing up and down. It also did provide Xavi with another highly creative outlet next to him which made the whole team much more fluid. Now, Xavi didn't have the same creative outlet for Spain at RB (Ramos/Arbeloa) and it still worked, but the end product was much more suffocating in terms of playing style. It's not only because of RB position, but I think Xavi loved Alves presence on that right side.

I don't think it's such a big issue as I rate Bergomi's all around game (and there is Evra on the other side), but Dani Alves at his peak was something else in terms as an attacking output.
Makes sense, cheers Beam.

(From certain players, I'd imagine Pat's team to be a bit more direct anyway, choosing risk over ball retention more frequently than a 2008+ full-on possession side.)
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
im really not sure Don would be happy with Xavi running everything next to him
I'll spew out my rambling thought processes regarding Di Stefano and Xavi as it's the obvious talking point with my team.

  • The Don was my first pick, opted for Xavi as second pick simply because I had plans whatsoever for my team, didn't recall ever seeing them paired together, and thought it would be an interesting talking point if nothing else. No grand vision for them or great conviction that they'd be perfect together, just something to try out.
  • Opted for Di Stefano False 9 in the first match as that seems the obvious way to demarcate their zones of influence - Xavi running the middle third, The Don running the attack.
  • Didn't like it - Di Stefano dropped too deep too often even for a False 9 role. He wasn't just getting involved in the deeper build up, he was defending with the energy and tactical awareness of a top B2B player. Advanced midfield is his natural domain in my current way of thinking, where he can be at the centre of things. We actually did the same thing when we picked Di Stefano ages ago when we teamed up, starting him as a False 9 in the first match then moving him down the pitch after picking up van Basten in the reinforcements.
  • As regards the fit with Xavi, I just finished watching the first half of the Eintracht Frankfurt final for the second time in a few fecking days to count the number of passes he made :lol:. There's four minutes of footage missing but by my count he attempted only 23 passes, completing 17 of them - clearly he was the main conduit in that Real team, but transplanting him into a modern possession team and away from that more chaotic era, I think there's room for a metronome alongside him.
  • His ball-carrying seemed a more integral string to bow in the build-up than his passing, as he was brilliant at suddenly injecting pace into an attack with a timely dribble. Again, that doesn't seem like a problem with Xavi, who had Iniesta performing that function so well alongside him.
  • I'd question the extent to which he'd really demand to be the architect of the deeper build up in a modern team. The bit I referred to in my OP was at 32:05 in the linked video, where he's back defending, then receives the ball at the edge of his own penalty area from the GK who had caught a cross. Throws a wobbly at his teammates who are stood around like statues, then loses his temper and dribbles into a dead end and was dispossessed. To me that looked like a player who was getting so involved in that phase at least partly because the likes of Zarraga and Vidal weren't good enough at it. As with his first goal, where he was hanging around the penalty area for 30ish seconds before the ball came to him, I think he'd happily sacrifice a bit of involvement in the build up for more freedom to time his bursts into scoring positions.
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
@Enigma_87 How much do you expect Robson to get forward? Of the B2Bs he seems very much on the attacking end, more like Matthaus. He seems an odd choice here. To me you need more of a DM/DLP who can pick up from deep to progress the play so in that regard I think Robson is a tactical downgrade on Souness.

I also on the other hand agree with Sjor Di Stefano and Xavi. Also Xavi might need to drift wider than he would ideally like as Bergomi won't own the right flank like Dani Alves would.
Synco and Jim got to the nub of the matter very nicely in their exchange and I'd agree with what they said, positive and negative. Firstly, it was Synco's work on Bergomi in the last draft that made me more appreciative of Bergomi's all-around game. Secondly, the basic idea was indeed that Evra and Bergomi would be a mirrored Alves/Abidal combo. I'd concede though as Beam pointed out that Xavi can't really perform the Iniesta function of drifting wide to the same level, nor do we want him drifting wide too often. It's basically on Bergomi with the occasional overlap, and moreso the forwards to provide the width on that wing. That's one of the reasons I want Stoichkov switching wings at times.
 
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Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
agreed with physio, midfield looked better with Souness in it. Also Cruyff looks a bit strange in the team, not really feeling him with the rest of the team tbh
Pffffff, it's a tough one. If Pat clicks, Cruyff might get frustrated with the lack of possession in what is already a pretty direct team with now Robson in it. Will read a bit more thoughts, it's a head-scratcher atm mostly because I really like both teams, but also some elements in them are putting me off.
Cruyff does look quite peripheral here to me. Eusebio will pretty much do his own thing, the Becks/Seeler combo looks very dangerous but will function quite independently of Cruyff, and in general it just looks a very direct team. If people buy that we can dominate possession then I could see it being a frustrating game for Cruyff.
 

Physiocrat

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On Bergomi, Synco's work showed him to be a much more rounder player than I had remembered who could get forward pretty well. It is more of a tactical fit argument: I would want a pretty attacking overlapping RB in a 433 with a wide forward rather than a balanced one.