Heavy Training Sessions

largelyworried

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Then he should adapt to the squad's fitness and find a way to play with what he got, and do that when we get more days off later in the season.
If the problem is that the training is too hard, we'll lose unnecessary matches, and get more injuries. Better to wait and play with lower intensity for a while.
And if we don’t get our fitness and tactics up to scratch then when we reach the business end of the season we wont be able to win the games that matter. It's a risk either way. This isn't something we can squeeze into a couple of training seasons down the line. It'll take weeks or months. So we either start now, or we leave it til summer.
 

Acquire Me

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If it is so clear, why didn't you make this thread before the game? Is it because you're trying to look smarter and more knowledgeable than you are?

I love it when some try to make it out as if they're some sort of football savants and the rest of us are some peasants :lol:
His not wrong and I don’t see the point of your reply at all.
 

Dan_F

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You don't.
Bit if a pointless thread then isn’t it? No one knows what has been going on in training. Personally I would imagine it’s a lot more focus on teaching positioning and tactics, rather than running - especially at this stage in the season.
 

talking robot

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i (like everyone else on here) have no idea whats been happening in training. i do know that for years there’s been little to no consequence for underperformance because of oles cronyism. that has created all sorts of bad habits. i hope that RR makes a point that lack of quality, lack of intensity, and not following basic instructions carry the consequence of not getting selected. if that means dropping the likes of rashford and fernandes for “lesser” players, then so be it. merit based selection is necessary to improve collective performance levels over time.
 

Di Maria's angel

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If not for De Gea we lose that game comfortably.

Imagine the score line was 3-1 against Norwich, that’s what we deserved in my opinion and the complexion then is very different.


Like I said I’m fully on board with Ralf and want his brand of football, this game was worrying for me for a number of reasons.
Im not sure the formation suits the players and I’m not sure the players suit the press. If that’s the case then this will be a very long road.

I’m just frustrated at that performance, from the players more than anything.
I'm sorry but this wasn't your opinion was Ole was in charge where we awful almost every game and stealing wins from our opposition.
 

cyberman

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If not for De Gea we lose that game comfortably.

Imagine the score line was 3-1 against Norwich, that’s what we deserved in my opinion and the complexion then is very different.

Like I said I’m fully on board with Ralf and want his brand of football, this game was worrying for me for a number of reasons.
Im not sure the formation suits the players and I’m not sure the players suit the press. If that’s the case then this will be a very long road.

I’m just frustrated at that performance, from the players more than anything.
There’s not a save David made that he shouldnt have stopped
 

bond19821982

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We know feck all , to be honest. It could be purely tactical given we weren't ready to high press. Or we could have been tired. Or players didn't execute it properly.

It's all about points now. Hope we get through this period without any major damage. By Jan end or Feb, we should have a system and a way of playing. I would start criticizing the manager only after Jan/Feb. Again, I'm not expecting pressing machines by Jan. We will atleast know how we will play and who are our best players. That by itself is a win for us.
 

WR10

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Ronaldo was off his game. That’s literally why we looked poor. Our whole attack revolves around him
 

RUCK4444

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I'm sorry but this wasn't your opinion was Ole was in charge where we awful almost every game and stealing wins from our opposition.
Whenever we played that badly under Ole I would say the same. I was also clear yesterday that I fully back Ralf and that I question the players currently.

Fact is we didn’t play that badly too often until this season. We looked like scoring and could at least counterattack, yesterday was very concerning for a number of reasons, none of them I’m blaming Ralf for at this stage so you can relax.
 

RUCK4444

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There’s not a save David made that he shouldnt have stopped
He made three good saves one of which (outstretched to his right palming it out and away from goal was a top save and many don’t make it.)

… against Norwich who can’t buy a goal in most games.

I’m being negative yes but I’m still livid with the performance/application from the team in that game.
 

Jaykespeare88

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Seasons a write off! Run em into the ground! Get them used to the system! Weed out the suckers! Identify where we need the new players.
Squad good enough to get top 4 regardless of enegry levels.
 

lex talionis

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We really don’t know if the training sessions ran the players into the ground. It’s possible though, especially if Friday was a brutal training session, but that seems highly unlikely.

Rashford and Bruno have been poor all season, and against Norwich they were our two worst players. Our problems go deeper than the intensity of the training sessions under Ralf.
 

tenpoless

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Theyre pro athletes. Even if they are not fully "charged up", they're unlike you and me and should have been able to perform at least in the first half. The misplaced passes and miscontrols are down to players so used to playing that type of fast brainless risky passing that leads to nowhere, especially Bruno. It works in counter attacks not proper build ups. You'd swear nobody has ever told him to cut it off, Ralf hopefully would. Rashford looked like his head was elswhere, dont think he was tired either just lacking form and perhaps motivation. Ronaldo had a bad game, but i dont think he was tired. All in all it was just a shit performance from the attacking department.
 

OmarUnited4ever

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Theyre pro athletes. Even if they are not fully "charged up", they're unlike you and me and should have been able to perform at least in the first half. The misplaced passes and miscontrols are down to players so used to playing that type of fast brainless risky passing that leads to nowhere, especially Bruno. It works in counter attacks not proper build ups. You'd swear nobody has ever told him to cut it off, Ralf hopefully would. Rashford looked like his head was elswhere, dont think he was tired either just lacking form and perhaps motivation. Ronaldo had a bad game, but i dont think he was tired. All in all it was just a shit performance from the attacking department.
I agree with this. It wasn't fitness or stamina issues, because if that was the case, then we would've seen them press and work hard, and then perhaps get tired after 25-30mins, what happened in the game yesterday was the front 4 weren't collectively as aggressive or competitive as needed, and RR alluded to that in his press conference, he mentioned the players not winning their 1v1 duels, less physical, etc.. but he didn't say the players got tired fast or aren't fit enough, you see Bruno running all game but he got dispossessed, misplaced passes, and was overall terrible on the ball, but he didn't seem tired to me, Same with Rashford & Ronaldo.
 

Isotope

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So, were McTom and Fred absent from these "heavy trainings"?
 

VP89

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So, were McTom and Fred absent from these "heavy trainings"?
Not every player has the same stamina levels to be fair. If the flat performance was a consequence of heavy training, its going to be affecting some players more than others.
 

romufc

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Not every player has the same stamina levels to be fair. If the flat performance was a consequence of heavy training, its going to be affecting some players more than others.
Seemed like it mainly effected the front 4.

Sancho should be used to this at Dortmund, they have a pressing style.

Bruno, who we all think is up there with the fittest.

Granted Ronaldo and Rashford are the laziest of the lot, you could tell that in the game though.
 

Isotope

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Not every player has the same stamina levels to be fair. If the flat performance was a consequence of heavy training, its going to be affecting some players more than others.
Doesn't explain why McTom played with more energy.

Telles and Dalot kept running up and down. Bruno was everywhere and running up and down also.
Rashford and Ronaldo as their usual "energy", not more or less.

Unless my eyes deceived me. It's just Norwich was up more than Crystal Palace.
 

Bestietom

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You need a high level of fitness for the "gegenpress" for 90 minutes. Anyway some of our players need some heavy training sessions imo.
 

stoinz

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Doesn't explain why McTom played with more energy.

Telles and Dalot kept running up and down. Bruno was everywhere and running up and down also.
Rashford and Ronaldo as their usual "energy", not more or less.

Unless my eyes deceived me. It's just Norwich was up more than Crystal Palace.
Ralf Rangnick actually said this as well. Norwich was up more than Crystal Palace. We basically played the same way with the same set of instructions but Norwich was more aggressive than us.
 

Glorio

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They don’t have to give him the ball.
Exactly - really annoys me. I watch Portugal a lot (well used to), and I got put off them because even though they're stacked with good players they get caught this mental block where they have to look for Ronaldo whenever they attack. It's looking like it's creeping into our game these days. It's always been the case with Bruno but on Saturday, it appeared they were all looking for Ronaldo even when they themselves or other players were in better positions. It's not like he's even screaming for the ball. :houllier:
 

VP89

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Seemed like it mainly effected the front 4.

Sancho should be used to this at Dortmund, they have a pressing style.

Bruno, who we all think is up there with the fittest.

Granted Ronaldo and Rashford are the laziest of the lot, you could tell that in the game though.
Doesn't explain why McTom played with more energy.

Telles and Dalot kept running up and down. Bruno was everywhere and running up and down also.
Rashford and Ronaldo as their usual "energy", not more or less.

Unless my eyes deceived me. It's just Norwich was up more than Crystal Palace.
Its not a case of just seeing who is running though. A lot of players looked knackered on the ball after winning it from the press. Simple passes become a lot trickier when you're tired.
 

romufc

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Its not a case of just seeing who is running though. A lot of players looked knackered on the ball after winning it from the press. Simple passes become a lot trickier when you're tired.
I agree with that. The only thing I would say to that is, the same players made the same mistakes under Ole too, we weren't winning the ball back quickly then.

So for me, its a bigger issue than people think. Either, Bruno / Rashford needs to be dropped, just to get their hunger back.
 

RedStarUnited

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Not buying this to be honest. Rested midweek and had a full week to prepare.

I’m fully on board with Ralf but this performance was abysmal by any standard. Let’s have it right.

The concern for me was the lack of effort and zero sign of pressing. We stood off Norwich all game and could not string two passes together, that’s not from training too much.
On the pressing, I thought we did that on purpose to save energy for tomorrows game.
 

romufc

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Not buying this to be honest. Rested midweek and had a full week to prepare.

I’m fully on board with Ralf but this performance was abysmal by any standard. Let’s have it right.

The concern for me was the lack of effort and zero sign of pressing. We stood off Norwich all game and could not string two passes together, that’s not from training too much.
Me Neither. This was a case of players resting on their laurels.

I think Ralf needs to make a statement by dropping Bruno and Rashford just to give the rest a bit of kick too.

I love Bruno but he has been shit recently, he is a shadow of himself, I think he needs to sit on the sidelines for a bit and gather his thoughts.
 

wolvored

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i (like everyone else on here) have no idea whats been happening in training. i do know that for years there’s been little to no consequence for underperformance because of oles cronyism. that has created all sorts of bad habits. i hope that RR makes a point that lack of quality, lack of intensity, and not following basic instructions carry the consequence of not getting selected. if that means dropping the likes of rashford and fernandes for “lesser” players, then so be it. merit based selection is necessary to improve collective performance levels over time.
Agreed. Was going to say similar. Drop a couple of big names. Tell them in front of the rest of the squad. Tell them why they are dropped and where they need to improve to get back in. This should at least give everyone a kick up the arse that if their performances don't improve, they could be next.
 

RUCK4444

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On the pressing, I thought we did that on purpose to save energy for tomorrows game.
I'm just not sure managers can approach games like that in the PL. To say 'listen guys don't run much in this game and lets hope we get a result.'

It would make sense to try and conserve energy to avoid burnout, but in reality I'm just not sure it's possible to implement. It's not like a switch you can turn off and on, it can only be achieved through rotation (which we did, we rested every single player.)

Though I'm fully expecting a 100% change in energy and pressing in the next game as a reaction to the last games performance, which will then make it seem the way you think it has been planned though. :)
 

VP89

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On the pressing, I thought we did that on purpose to save energy for tomorrows game.
Nope - timestamped the interview below at the right point, Rangnick says that it was not the intention to stand off. He wanted his players to press like vs Palace:
 

Ixion

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Nope - timestamped the interview below at the right point, Rangnick says that it was not the intention to stand off. He wanted his players to press like vs Palace:
Which was very strange because I recall a moment in the first half where Ronaldo very clearly signaled to the other forwards not to press and let Palace come forward.
 

Leftback99

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It's an excuse for poor performance from the players yet again. When are they ever accountable? We have no idea how hard training was.
 

tomaldinho1

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I love the implication that footballers simply choose to play well or not.
The only positive I can take from how bad/off target some of the passing was is that the team is already trying to take on a new way of playing. We’ve always looked an average, at best, possession team since LVG left but the hope is these next few weeks will be a teething period of understanding how RR wants us to use the ball.

Which was very strange because I recall a moment in the first half where Ronaldo very clearly signaled to the other forwards not to press and let Palace come forward.
I though this but it probably just means they were planning on starting a press slightly deeper vs Norwich.
 

romufc

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It's an excuse for poor performance from the players yet again. When are they ever accountable? We have no idea how hard training was.
You know what I find weird? There were rumours about training being not good enough and school standard.

Now, they are people saying training is too hard, so what do people want?

Its solely on the players, they haven't been able to perform against one of the worst teams in the league. The manager has to make decisions to drop at least 2/4 forwards because they lead the press.
 

VP89

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You know what I find weird? There were rumours about training being not good enough and school standard.

Now, they are people saying training is too hard, so what do people want?

Its solely on the players, they haven't been able to perform against one of the worst teams in the league. The manager has to make decisions to drop at least 2/4 forwards because they lead the press.
I don't think it's "too hard". It's where it needs to be (finally) but players will just need to adapt to it.

When Tuchel came and implemented his methods it also took time for Chelsea to adapt. The first match I think was a drab 0-0 to Wolves and he even lost 5-2 to WBA on the way. It's going to be up and down for the team and not every game will look to be an improvement on the last.

We have reported a covid outbreak too. Matic was unwell, maybe he is one positive case and given he likely trains with the first XI, I wonder whether we had one or two covid players fielded without knowing.
 

romufc

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I don't think it's "too hard". It's where it needs to be (finally) but players will just need to adapt to it.

When Tuchel came and implemented his methods it also took time for Chelsea to adapt. The first match I think was a drab 0-0 to Wolves and he even lost 5-2 to WBA on the way. It's going to be up and down for the team and not every game will look to be an improvement on the last.

We have reported a covid outbreak too. Matic was unwell, maybe he is one positive case and given he likely trains with the first XI, I wonder whether we had one or two covid players fielded without knowing.
I agree, I do not think it will be all plain sailing. I think Rangnick realsied the job at hand after that game. Some of the players will be spending alot of time with the Sports phycologist.

At the moment its all about points on the board for me, come January though, I do want to see some better football.
 

ShinjiNinja26

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Ole left us in a right state. It’s going to take Ralf a while to get this squad up to speed to where it needs to be. Especially for how he wants us to play.