High pressing

bond19821982

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Very impressed how we handled Chelsea press today. Quite brilliant. Brilliant defenders in Maguire and lindelof certainly helps.

Not that impressed how we pressed as a team though . Chelsea were in gengen mode. Ours was more of a casual approach without a plan .
 

Denis79

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Very impressed how we handled Chelsea press today. Quite brilliant. Brilliant defenders in Maguire and lindelof certainly helps.

Not that impressed how we pressed as a team though . Chelsea were in gengen mode. Ours was more of a casual approach without a plan .
Our pressing in pre-season was really good, saw little of that today. We have such a good counter, really need to get our pressing going.
 

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While we seem to lack a bit of coordination in terms of pressing I'm super happy to actually see a team out there that is capable of running for 90 minutes. How did Mou let that slide for so long that we had a team out there that had only energy for 20-30 minutes of high intensity football? Criminal.
 

RussellWilson

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We still struggled to play through midfield against the press and got caught loads of times which is a big worry. I'm not sure Pogba is suited to bringing the ball out from that deep, he's just too impatient to recycle the ball like you need to in a role like that.
 

Johan07

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We are trying to implement tactical pressing. It will take months to execute consistently. Reason why we pressed so inconsistently
Yeah, pretty much this.
I would like us to try to implement an even more offensive style of pressing, but if this is the sought after style, so be it. Its still much better than Mourhinhos non-pressing and actually not far from what LvG tried to implement, with lesser players who were not suited to the approach to begin with.
There is much work to be done on an individual level of certain players though.
In Sweden we use a term called "alibi-pressing" when describing a player that looks like he is pressing aggressively until he is two yards in front of the opponent in possession and he stops; in most cases because he is afraid to be beaten.
Which is a normal reaction tbf, but on this level you are going to be found out and the ball played around you instead, which happened a lot of times against Chelsea and will kill us against a City or Barcelona.
Even a player like Lingard is guilty of this a lot of times, not to mention a Martial or a Pogba. We need to press much more aggressively individually when we do press and like Liverpool and City accept to take a cynical free-kick against if it backfires and you are beaten.
I wish we would stand even higher up with our back-four as well. We have a very "long" team when pressing, which does not help either.
But all these things might come. Still happy with the approach in general.
 

Fosu-Mens

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Yeah, pretty much this.
I would like us to try to implement an even more offensive style of pressing, but if this is the sought after style, so be it. Its still much better than Mourhinhos non-pressing and actually not far from what LvG tried to implement, with lesser players who were not suited to the approach to begin with.
There is much work to be done on an individual level of certain players though.
In Sweden we use a term called "alibi-pressing" when describing a player that looks like he is pressing aggressively until he is two yards in front of the opponent in possession and he stops; in most cases because he is afraid to be beaten.
Which is a normal reaction tbf, but on this level you are going to be found out and the ball played around you instead, which happened a lot of times against Chelsea and will kill us against a City or Barcelona.
Even a player like Lingard is guilty of this a lot of times, not to mention a Martial or a Pogba. We need to press much more aggressively individually when we do press and like Liverpool and City accept to take a cynical free-kick against if it backfires and you are beaten.
I wish we would stand even higher up with our back-four as well. We have a very "long" team when pressing, which does not help either.
But all these things might come. Still happy with the approach in general.
Happy with the intent you mean?

As for pressing, we need to improve our direction with the pressing. By this I mean that we should not be pressing for the sake of it, we should be pressing to enforce them to play a pass that we want them to play. Either a long ball, high-risk ball or towards one of their players that are not good on the ball.
Plan which of their players we want on the ball; Zouma was the player in their defense we wanted to have the ball as much as possible. Same as Chelsea "forcing" us to play the ball to our fullbacks. Having a goal with the pressing will help the team press more like a cohesive unit, instead of running around like Sanchez'es.

Our back 4 can't play a high line because the lack of pace in Maguire and Lindelof, and the lack of mobility in McT and PP.
 

Johan07

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Happy with the intent you mean?

As for pressing, we need to improve our direction with the pressing. By this I mean that we should not be pressing for the sake of it, we should be pressing to enforce them to play a pass that we want them to play. Either a long ball, high-risk ball or towards one of their players that are not good on the ball.
Plan which of their players we want on the ball; Zouma was the player in their defense we wanted to have the ball as much as possible. Same as Chelsea "forcing" us to play the ball to our fullbacks. Having a goal with the pressing will help the team press more like a cohesive unit, instead of running around like Sanchez'es.

Our back 4 can't play a high line because the lack of pace in Maguire and Lindelof, and the lack of mobility in McT and PP.
This is a complete myth IMO. If Barcelona could play with Pique and Mascherano at CB with a high line: so can we. VvD and Gomez/Matip (prob the slowest CB in the PL) are contrary to public opinion no race horses either. Nor are City´s CB´s. Maguire and Lindelöf are actually not that bad in comparison at all.
 

red woppit

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We are at the very start of a long journey with this manager, staff and players, what we saw on Sunday were two teams in different stages of development, and Chelsea looked further along the road than we did, primarily I think because all their players have been with Chelsea for at least a season, Abraham, Mount and Zouma although being on loan last year, are used to the set up at Chelsea, so would fit straight in, whereas we were playing a new system, with several new players, and still inexperience in McTominay and Pereira.
 

Fosu-Mens

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This is a complete myth IMO. If Barcelona could play with Pique and Mascherano at CB with a high line: so can we. VvD and Gomez/Matip (prob the slowest CB in the PL) are contrary to public opinion no race horses either. Nor are City´s CB´s. Maguire and Lindelöf are actually not that bad in comparison at all.
IT is a complete myth if you are able to press them and not give them enough time to pinpoint a ball (Rashford second goal yesterday). If we are able to press well, then we could play with a higher backline, but if we play with a high backline and are unable to press...
 

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This is a complete myth IMO. If Barcelona could play with Pique and Mascherano at CB with a high line: so can we. VvD and Gomez/Matip (prob the slowest CB in the PL) are contrary to public opinion no race horses either. Nor are City´s CB´s. Maguire and Lindelöf are actually not that bad in comparison at all.
What? None of Liverpool's center halves, sans Lovern, are slow.
 

Johan07

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IT is a complete myth if you are able to press them and not give them enough time to pinpoint a ball (Rashford second goal yesterday). If we are able to press well, then we could play with a higher backline, but if we play with a high backline and are unable to press...
On this I completely agree. The two things are integral, which was what I tried to say with my original post: If we do manage a more coherent and aggressive press; we will be able to play with a higher back-four. At the same time a higher back-four will make an aggressive press easier just because the players will be closer to each other.
 

Johan07

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What? None of Liverpool's center halves, sans Lovern, are slow.
Matip is. At least over the first 10-15 meters. And I did not say that that anyone but him was slow. I tried to make the point that there is not much if any difference at all between the other top teams pairings and Victor/Maguire. The idea that they are a "slow" pairing was what I argued against. If thats the case; yeah, then the other teams CBs are "slow" as well.
 

Fosu-Mens

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On this I completely agree. The two things are integral, which was what I tried to say with my original post: If we do manage a more coherent and aggressive press; we will be able to play with a higher back-four. At the same time a higher back-four will make an aggressive press easier just because the players will be closer to each other.
Chicken and the egg.

Still needs to be more "directional" with our pressing for it to be effective. I fear that this headless chicken pressing will struggle against a team like Wolves with Neves and Moutinho controlling.
 

bondsname

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Pressing is not just running blindly at the opposition with everything you got, playing a pressing game demands a lot, physically and tactically. You have to be aware of your surroundings if you are go pull off a high press consistently, which is much easier said than done. You have to press as a unit, closing every possible way out, or press the opponent to make them play the way you want them to play. For example; make the only pass option a notoriously poor ball playing CB.

This things take time, and a team need to understand each other, have cohesion and chemistry, and we don't even have a final 11 yet! We are constantly rotating, making necessary adjustments because of injuries, buying new players, and it's going to take time to create a team that can press with success consistently.

I like what I have seen though. The energy and will to win the ball back has been exciting, and we are certainly heading the right way.
 

MackRobinson

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Matip is. At least over the first 10-15 meters. And I did not say that that anyone but him was slow. I tried to make the point that there is not much if any difference at all between the other top teams pairings and Victor/Maguire. The idea that they are a "slow" pairing was what I argued against. If thats the case; yeah, then the other teams CBs are "slow" as well.
You mentioned them all in the same sentence so it was difficult to know you were talking about but still. Matip isn't slow, let alone the slowest in the league.

I don't disagree with you comments about Maglof though
 

TRUERED89

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This is a complete myth IMO. If Barcelona could play with Pique and Mascherano at CB with a high line: so can we. VvD and Gomez/Matip (prob the slowest CB in the PL) are contrary to public opinion no race horses either. Nor are City´s CB´s. Maguire and Lindelöf are actually not that bad in comparison at all.
Our CB's are probably quicker than all of those players!
 

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We looked a lot fitter than Chelsea, which was very noticeable in the final 20 minutes. The players have clearly been doing a lot of running in preseason.

It will be interesting to see if the increase in physical workload in training, coupled with a high press during games, leads to exhaustion/injuries again (as it did post- January), or whether we can sustain it.

We'll certainly need to get a lot better at retaining possession, because we will need time to recover if we wish to maintain the intensity of our pressing during games.
 

TRUERED89

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We looked a lot fitter than Chelsea, which was very noticeable in the final 20 minutes. The players have clearly been doing a lot of running in preseason.

It will be interesting to see if the increase in physical workload in training, coupled with a high press during games, leads to exhaustion/injuries again (as it did post- January), or whether we can sustain it.

We'll certainly need to get a lot better at retaining possession, because we will need time to recover if we wish to maintain the intensity of our pressing during games.
Liverpool and City manage it. Jose just had us playing lazy, pragmatic bus parking so it was expected, because players weren't used to it when Ole first arrived! We're much better conditioned now to carry out the new playing style.
 

roonster09

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We looked a lot fitter than Chelsea, which was very noticeable in the final 20 minutes. The players have clearly been doing a lot of running in preseason.

It will be interesting to see if the increase in physical workload in training, coupled with a high press during games, leads to exhaustion/injuries again (as it did post- January), or whether we can sustain it.

We'll certainly need to get a lot better at retaining possession, because we will need time to recover if we wish to maintain the intensity of our pressing during games.
Yeah, Ole said till the midweek game starts the training will be intense and will be like preseason. I remember him saying in one of the interviews that the mistake he did last season was lack of rotation, which is something he wants to correct it this season.

He should use his full squad, otherwise end of the season will be painful to watch,
 

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Liverpool and City manage it. Jose just had us playing lazy, pragmatic bus parking so it was expected, because players weren't used to it when Ole first arrived! We're much better conditioned now to carry out the new playing style.
They both have managers with a decade plus of experience playing this way at a high level, squads that have been accumulated over successive seasons specifically with that style in mind and players that can pass the ball all day to allow the team to 'rest' in game.

We're starting from ground zero. Problems (like injuries/exhaustion) are probably to be expected.
 

Andersons Dietician

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Not that impressed how we pressed as a team though . Chelsea were in gengen mode. Ours was more of a casual approach without a plan
I would think the fact Chelsea were so far spread out and leaving huge gaps between players pressing would have been extremely hard to do and it didn’t seem helped by the fact Lingard and Perreira for the first half seemed to be running in sand.
In pre season against Spurs the pressing was very evident and in other games we were forcing lots of errors from teams and playing with a highline. Hopefully it’ll still improve but there were signs of it there or trying to press but Chelsea are no mugs and have good players in the squad but it will be interesting to see how we do against more compact teams.

@Infra-red what you’re saying about injuries and Exhaustion is true. I remember Pool as they were transitioning to this for the first part of the season absolutely flying then after Christmas they looked exhausted and nothing like the early season team.

Actually feel last year Klopp changed them slightly and they weren’t so gun-ho with their pressing and looked a lot more refined team that could win in different ways but it will be intriguing to see how we are doing injury wise and energy levels come January as part of Jose’s style was based on preserving players to last in to the final days so it’s a big change and 1 that might take a season or 2.
 
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Adisa

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High pressing in a team as sloppy as ours is suicide. We need to learn how to keep the ball.
 

Buster15

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High pressing in a team as sloppy as ours is suicide. We need to learn how to keep the ball.
Yes. Given the lead up and the press information I was expecting far more evidence of us actually closing down Chelsea players and denying them space.
I did not really see that and instead we were containing Chelsea and hitting them on the counter.
Not complaining as it was a good result.
But. To be honest we are nowhere near good enough in possesion to be capable of matching the likes of Liverpool or City.
The reason why we are not good enough is simply that we have no real pace in midfield. The forwards and defence have real pace but not the middle of the pitch.
 

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Moyes, LVG, Mourinho. They are all unemployed.

Edit: wrong thread..
 
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Vissy

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Yes. Given the lead up and the press information I was expecting far more evidence of us actually closing down Chelsea players and denying them space.
I did not really see that and instead we were containing Chelsea and hitting them on the counter.
Not complaining as it was a good result.
But. To be honest we are nowhere near good enough in possesion to be capable of matching the likes of Liverpool or City.
The reason why we are not good enough is simply that we have no real pace in midfield. The forwards and defence have real pace but not the middle of the pitch.
You're otherwise right but it's not pace that we lack in midfield. All of our midfield players have pace in abundance bar Matic. We need more composed, technical players in midfield who can keep possession ticking such as Carrick used to do.
 

bond19821982

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It's laughable when people say it would take months to sort our pressing style. Ole took over in December and I haven't seen a consistency in our pressing since then.

And No, this cant be combined with the lack of pre-season. You would still see a pattern if you are really planning to implement it.
 

Adisa

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It's laughable when people say it would take months to sort our pressing style. Ole took over in December and I haven't seen a consistency in our pressing since then.

And No, this cant be combined with the lack of pre-season. You would still see a pattern if you are really planning to implement it.
It's simple. Ole doesn't subscribe to one particular pressing style. He uses all three blocks. What we want to see is how often he uses the high pressing. With our better energy levels, hopefully on more occassions.
 

ABC of Football

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During pre season and against Chelsea, you can clearly see the team has set up to press at certain intervals in the game. I think over the season we will see a much more fluid pressing game. The only worry is that we cant keep the ball to save our lives. If we are going to be successful when it comes to pressing, we will need to keep the ball better, so that we can reduce the pressure on our defence. Playing solely as a counter attacking team will be suicide against better teams, as teams will be able to just keep coming at us which we are not strong enough to hold on.
 

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Do we have pressing and distance covered stats for the game vs the other games / teams? Would be good to see if Ole is getting something out of the team. My guess is that he is, but we need the data to confirm.
 

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You're otherwise right but it's not pace that we lack in midfield. All of our midfield players have pace in abundance bar Matic. We need more composed, technical players in midfield who can keep possession ticking such as Carrick used to do.
Fair point although I would not class either Pogba or McTominay or Mata as having real pace of movement or thought.
As you rightly say, Carrick was not quick but he had the technical skills to be able to move the ball quickly and accurately.
 

Infra-red

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Do we have pressing and distance covered stats for the game vs the other games / teams? Would be good to see if Ole is getting something out of the team. My guess is that he is, but we need the data to confirm.
United players covered 107.89km compared to Chelsea's 106.63km. So we won the running on Sunday... just.
 

Santoryo

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United players covered 107.89km compared to Chelsea's 106.63km. So we won the running on Sunday... just.
Interesting. We do indeed work a lot harder. I thought Chelsea would have outrun us given how they were also pressing a lot but it seems we did cover a lot more ground.
 

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I am blind obviously. I didn't see any pressing in Chelsea game. Except few times when (only) our forwards pressed their backline. But that i can't call pressing. It is something what forwards always do and it is easy for defence to deal with it.
 
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ChaddyP

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I am blind obviously. I didn't see any pressing in Chelsea game. Except few times when (only) our forwards pressed their backline. But that i can't call pressing. It is something what forwards always do and it is easy to for defence to deal with it.
We pressed but not all the time. I think you will see us pressing a lot more vs the "smaller teams"
 

Pexbo

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I am blind obviously. I didn't see any pressing in Chelsea game. Except few times when (only) our forwards pressed their backline. But that i can't call pressing. It is something what forwards always do and it is easy to for defence to deal with it.
The change is that the pressing is organised, it’s no longer a lone forward chasing down a lost ball, it’s now supported by players cutting the options and the angles.

It doesn’t have to be gengenpress to be effective.
 

jesperjaap

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We are trying to implement tactical pressing. It will take months to execute consistently. Reason why we pressed so inconsistently
Not even just a time thing, the probable best three sides in the premier league have managers who have implemented a tactical press there whole careers. You look at SPurs and Liverpool, though they have less holes in there sides than ours, individually there isnt much difference in the sides, but they are so well drilled in comparison of knowing there roles in the side and playing as a team
 

jesperjaap

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It's laughable when people say it would take months to sort our pressing style. Ole took over in December and I haven't seen a consistency in our pressing since then.

And No, this cant be combined with the lack of pre-season. You would still see a pattern if you are really planning to implement it.
When I think of some of the great sides under Ferguson I think we combined both high tempo and pressing so well but often in the same games we managed to sit back, soak up pressure and play as a counter attacking side breaking with pace.

In the Chelsea game I think we looked so much better and comfortable in the second half when we changed to a more counter attacking game.

On TV it is hard to see like being at the game, but it seemed to me in the first half we were almost stuck between the two styles. The front three and Pereirra seemed to be pressing high up the pitch but more just following the ball rather than hunting in packs, the midfield seemed to be sitting behind them and our defence was still really deep which what with the attacking players not tracking back was leavign huge holes and overloads all over the pitch, it appeared quite amateurish at times and imagining playing that wasy against CIty for example we could have been dead and buried by half time..

If we are going to press we need a higher line and though not slow, they are both not super quick and both fairly slow to turn round corners, quite concerning our centre backs if we play that way. Wolves game will be interesting to see how we play away, as they are the type of side could exploit that.