Holland - Euro 2021 discussion

Swiss_Red89

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So who is Hollands number 1 then? Krul?
 

BrilliantOrange

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It will probably be Stekelenburg...

There is a lot of discussion right now about whether we should play 433 of 532/352..

Personally I wouldnt mind which you chose, I just want NL to play dominant and on the attack, which we could do in both formations.. Its all about which players are involved in the build to start the attack and build up play forward.

Against Scotland we played with De Ligt De Vrij Timber in the back and De Roon just before them. None of them are real playmakers from behind, so ofcourse the build up is slow as hell and you have trouble getting the ball forward..

If you swap Timber for Blind and play Frenkie as deep lying playmaker it would make a world of difference with the exact same formation...

So I dont really care whether we play

Stekelenburg
Dumfries De Vrij De Ligt Wijndal
Wijnaldum Blind Frenkie

Or

Stekelenburg
Dumfries De Vrij De Ligt Blind Wijndal
Frenkie Wijnaldum

Its more or less the same, and it could both work if you play the above players... If you play with De Roon in a position where you need a playmaker ánd you dont have a real ball playing defender, ofcourse its going to shit..

hen upfront you can also choose either to play with two central strikers and Klaassen/VDB behind them as attacking midfielder or with three attackers without Klaassen/VDB... I have my preference, but the thing I state above it the most important thing for me.. A solid ballplaying - based on will to build up and dominate - foundation from the back. If De Vrij De Ligt Dumfries Wijndal and De Roon are the players who will get the ball first, you can have Messi and Lewandowski along with 3 other attacking players upfront but the ball will never get there... You need to involve Frenkie and Blind early on!

My personal preference would be:

----------------------------------Stekelenburg----------------------------------
--------------De Vrij-------------De Ligt-----------Blind---------------------
Dumfries--------------------------------------------------------------Wijndal
-----------------------Wijnaldum---------Frenkie----------------------------
-------------------------------------Klaassen-------------------------------------
--------------------------Depay-----------Weghorst--------------------------

So obviously this is not the best Dutch team ever, but in this formation you can play all our players to their strengths..

De Vrij as organizer from the back - being used to player in a back 3. De Ligt as killer and Blind as Playmaker... Frenkie just in front of them so you have the triangle there with De Ligt and Blind which was succesful at Ajax in the golden year. Wijndal and Dumfries can release their energy and need to make sure they run like forrest on the flanks and in attack provide some crossed for Weghorst, who has proven he can score goals. Wijnaldum can play as a connector in midfield, box to box. Klaassen had an incredible year at Ajax. Depay can play with all the freedom in the world up there, which suits him. I think Klaassen can be a very good combination with him.

Then you have Malen Berghuis and Gakpo on the bench if you want to create more offensive pressure, Luuk de Jong if you really need to force something in the end of a game. Veltman Ake Timber and Van Aanholt as backup from the defensive line. Koopmeiners Gravenberch and Donny as backup in midfield..

The squad isnt great, we definitely arent favorites, but there is definitely quality and potential in there to really make an impression and get somewhere the Euro's

Unfortonately Frank de Boer is our coach, so I wouldnt rule out we dont make it out of the groupstage with Ukraine, Macedonia and Austria.. That may sound impossible or aggerated.. But we have Frank de Boer..

ONE CANNOT SIMPLY OVERESTIMATE THE ABILITY OF FRANK DE BOER SUCKING ALL LIFE AND CREATIVITY OUT OF A TEAM
 
Last edited:

golden_blunder

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I'm excited to have a look at this Timber lad at CB. My dad works in Holland and has been raving about him this year. Will he get any minutes?

I was born in Rotterdam so Holland are always my team when Ireland don't qualify. It's not the most star studded of squads they've ever travelled with, but in De Ligt, De Vrij, Wijndal, De Jong, Gravenberch, Koopmeiners, Malen and Memphis there is a decent side in that squad who will give anyone a good game.

What sort of formation does De Boer line up with?
I hope he doesn’t get chopped down
 

golden_blunder

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I honestly don’t know how F De Boer landed the job after what he did at Crystal Palace and Atlanta United. They should be career killers
 

BrilliantOrange

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Dont forget his failure at Inter before the Palace job.
Plus... As an Ajax fan... After the first 1.5 years the 4 years which followed after were horrendous to watch as well and the quality of play was far from impressive/entertaining...
 

KirkDuyt

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Plus... As an Ajax fan... After the first 1.5 years the 4 years which followed after were horrendous to watch as well and the quality of play was far from impressive/entertaining...
True, but winning 4 league titles in a row is still an achievement. Even if his point totals wouldn't be enough to win the league most seasons.

Thing is, I dint think Frank is an idiot, he's just extremely stubborn. I think that's also why he failed abroad. He's the typical Dutch farmer who will only eat boerenkool and doesnt trust stuff he doesnt know.
 

golden_blunder

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True, but winning 4 league titles in a row is still an achievement. Even if his point totals wouldn't be enough to win the league most seasons.

Thing is, I dint think Frank is an idiot, he's just extremely stubborn. I think that's also why he failed abroad. He's the typical Dutch farmer who will only eat boerenkool and doesnt trust stuff he doesnt know.
Yeah he was trying to introduce a way at palace that would see them relegated.
 

Baneofthegame

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He's close but not close enough. He was in the preselection of 34 (do other countries do that? Always found this very weird...), but didn't make it into the final squad of 26. There are quite a few similar decent midfielders; not sure why he didn't make it specifically (e.g. instead of Van de Beek).
I know the world will be thrilled that the only nation who plays the game properly is back this edition. I know I am. And yes I know, it's The Netherlands, but that's a lot of letters and I'm lazy.

Holland (Group C)
Holland - Ukraine 13-6, 21:00
Holland - Austria 17-6, 21:00
North Macedonia - Holland 21-6, 18:00

We are blessed with our worst ever coach in Frank de Boer. He looks like a tit, sounds like a tit and is, well, a bit of a tit.

Our best players are probably De Ligt, De Jong, Depay and Steven Berghuis. Our group is shit, so I'm sure we'll go through to inevitably be eliminated by Portugal at some point.

Please, tell me more about how much you love us.
Doesn’t it say he’s included there?
 

krentz

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It will probably be Stekelenburg...

There is a lot of discussion right now about whether we should play 433 of 532/352..

Personally I wouldnt mind which you chose, I just want NL to play dominant and on the attack, which we could do in both formations.. Its all about which players are involved in the build to start the attack and build up play forward.

Against Scotland we played with De Ligt De Vrij Timber in the back and De Roon just before them. None of them are real playmakers from behind, so ofcourse the build up is slow as hell and you have trouble getting the ball forward..

If you swap Timber for Blind and play Frenkie as deep lying playmaker it would make a world of difference with the exact same formation...

So I dont really care whether we play

Stekelenburg
Dumfries De Vrij De Ligt Wijndal
Wijnaldum Blind Frenkie

Or

Stekelenburg
Dumfries De Vrij De Ligt Blind Wijndal
Frenkie Wijnaldum

Its more or less the same, and it could both work if you play the above players... If you play with De Roon in a position where you need a playmaker ánd you dont have a real ball playing defender, ofcourse its going to shit..

hen upfront you can also choose either to play with two central strikers and Klaassen/VDB behind them as attacking midfielder or with three attackers without Klaassen/VDB... I have my preference, but the thing I state above it the most important thing for me.. A solid ballplaying - based on will to build up and dominate - foundation from the back. If De Vrij De Ligt Dumfries Wijndal and De Roon are the players who will get the ball first, you can have Messi and Lewandowski along with 3 other attacking players upfront but the ball will never get there... You need to involve Frenkie and Blind early on!

My personal preference would be:

----------------------------------Stekelenburg----------------------------------
--------------De Vrij-------------De Ligt-----------Blind---------------------
Dumfries--------------------------------------------------------------Wijndal
-----------------------Wijnaldum---------Frenkie----------------------------
-------------------------------------Klaassen-------------------------------------
--------------------------Depay-----------Weghorst--------------------------

So obviously this is not the best Dutch team ever, but in this formation you can play all our players to their strengths..

De Vrij as organizer from the back - being used to player in a back 3. De Ligt as killer and Blind as Playmaker... Frenkie just in front of them so you have the triangle there with De Ligt and Blind which was succesful at Ajax in the golden year. Wijndal and Dumfries can release their energy and need to make sure they run like forrest on the flanks and in attack provide some crossed for Weghorst, who has proven he can score goals. Wijnaldum can play as a connector in midfield, box to box. Klaassen had an incredible year at Ajax. Depay can play with all the freedom in the world up there, which suits him. I think Klaassen can be a very good combination with him.

Then you have Malen Berghuis and Gakpo on the bench if you want to create more offensive pressure, Luuk de Jong if you really need to force something in the end of a game. Veltman Ake Timber and Van Aanholt as backup from the defensive line. Koopmeiners Gravenberch and Donny as backup in midfield..

The squad isnt great, we definitely arent favorites, but there is definitely quality and potential in there to really make an impression and get somewhere the Euro's

Unfortonately Frank de Boer is our coach, so I wouldnt rule out we dont make it out of the groupstage with Ukraine, Macedonia and Austria.. That may sound impossible or aggerated.. But we have Frank de Boer..

ONE CANNOT SIMPLY OVERESTIMATE THE ABILITY OF FRANK DE BOER SUCKING ALL LIFE AND CREATIVITY OUT OF A TEAM
That's an awful team. Cant believe there are some people who think Belanda is among the favorites to win euro this year.
 

VanDeBank

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He's playing 5 at the back plus a very defensive midfield against Georgia :lol:
Makes sense, no? This is his strategy against tough opposition in the knockouts and he needs to practice it at some point. He'll go 4-3-3 in groups.

The system gets the most out of the squad. You have good CBs and strikers, attacking fullbacks, but very poor wingers (minus Berghuis ofcourse ;))

Frank De Boer, another managerial case of someone failing upwards perhaps ?
No, his 4 successive domestic titles were impressive as that Ajax squad was very, very poor (Blind and Klaassen were their best players at the time).

He's just very stubborn and struggles communicating (kinda important as a coach).

I can see that being more of a problem abroad and some of the jobs he took were doomed from the start. Still a silly appointment by the Dutch FA.
 
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KirkDuyt

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Makes sense, no? This is his strategy against tough opposition in the knockouts and he needs to practice it at some point. He'll go 4-3-3 in groups.

The system gets the most out of the squad. You have good CBs and strikers, attacking fullbacks, but very poor wingers (minus Berghuis ofcourse ;))



No, his 4 successive domestic titles were impressive as that Ajax squad was very, very poor (Blind and Klaassen were their best players at the time).

He's just very stubborn and struggles communicating (kinda important as a coach).

I can see that being more of a problem abroad and some of the jobs he took were doomed from the start. Still a silly appointment by the Dutch FA.
I would have at least played Gravenbergh or Blind instead of De Roon than Ake at the back instead of Blind. I'd also have taken either Hateboer or Karsdorp with me since they play in a 5-3-2 at their clubs.
 

KirkDuyt

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Started quite well actually. Though De Roon against poor opposition is just silly, as expected.
 

Terranova

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Started quite well actually. Though De Roon against poor opposition is just silly, as expected.
De Roon against any kind of opposition is silly, he's not good enough
 

KirkDuyt

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De Roon against any kind of opposition is silly, he's not good enough
Yeah fair enough, but he can allegedly defend well. Seeing him on the ball though, I feel bad for him. He looks so helpless. Frenkie and Wijnaldum are shite too though. And Weghorst's first touch is shocking :lol:
 

BrilliantOrange

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Makes sense, no? This is his strategy against tough opposition in the knockouts and he needs to practice it at some point. He'll go 4-3-3 in groups.

The system gets the most out of the squad. You have good CBs and strikers, attacking fullbacks, but very poor wingers (minus Berghuis ofcourse ;))



No, his 4 successive domestic titles were impressive as that Ajax squad was very, very poor (Blind and Klaassen were their best players at the time).

He's just very stubborn and struggles communicating (kinda important as a coach).

I can see that being more of a problem abroad and some of the jobs he took were doomed from the start. Still a silly appointment by the Dutch FA.
I very very much disagree...

Apart from the fact that also his championships were with record low amount of points, why on f*cking earth would I celebrate a championship, when for about 90% of the matches (not overreacting) I only wanted to scratch my eyes out of my sockets of misery and boredom, and then accidentally we have 1 point more than PSV at the end of the season...

He took all life and fun out of football for years and years and he is now doing the exact same thing at Oranje. God i really hate him...

/end of FdB rant
 

VanDeBank

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I very very much disagree...

Apart from the fact that also his championships were with record low amount of points, why on f*cking earth would I celebrate a championship, when for about 90% of the matches (not overreacting) I only wanted to scratch my eyes out of my sockets of misery and boredom, and then accidentally we have 1 point more than PSV at the end of the season...

He took all life and fun out of football for years and years and he is now doing the exact same thing at Oranje. God i really hate him...

/end of FdB rant
Why?

Boilesen was your captain. Sigtorsson your striker, Vermeer your goalkeeper. Also your hyped up RB Van Rhijn and your big talent superstar Kishna got relegated from the Eredivisie this season. I remember your star player being Lasse Schone at some point.

Your academy just wasn't producing much and your salary cap didn't allow you to attract good players back then.

De Boer must be good at something if he can win the league 4 times consecutively despite PSV having better players in Guardado, Memphis, WIllems, Rekik, De Jong.

If your academy delivers you De Ligt, De Jong, Gravenberch, Timber and your raised salary cap allows you to get experienced players in Blind, Klaassen, Tadic, the team will obviously be more fun to watch.

If Ole wins the league 4 times in a row with a weak squad and a "fan" wouldn't celebrate and hate Ole instead because it looked like LVG's shite. I would be positive it was a rival fan wumming.
 

Cheimoon

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Why?

Boilesen was your captain. Sigtorsson your striker, Vermeer your goalkeeper. Also your hyped up RB Van Rhijn and your big talent superstar Kishna got relegated from the Eredivisie this season. I remember your star player being Lasse Schone at some point.

Your academy just wasn't producing much and your salary cap didn't allow you to attract good players back then.

De Boer must be good at something if he can win the league 4 times consecutively despite PSV having better players in Guardado, Memphis, WIllems, Rekik, De Jong.

If your academy delivers you De Ligt, De Jong, Gravenberch, Timber and your raised salary cap allows you to get experienced players in Blind, Klaassen, Tadic, the team will obviously be more fun to watch.

If Ole wins the league 4 times in a row with a weak squad and a "fan" wouldn't celebrate and hate Ole instead because it looked like LVG's shite. I would be positive it was a rival fan wumming.
Ajax isn't just any other club though when it comes to style. As much as they want to win things, it only counts if it's done in the right style. If a coach like Mourinho and Simeone would get in there and do the triple (league, cup, CL) playing their defensive football, they would likely still be hated by the fans and would risk being fired if the style doesn't change the next season. You can call it whatever you want, but Ajax fans do not accept shit-on-a-stick football, no matter what it brings them.
 

Stadjer

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Why?

Boilesen was your captain. Sigtorsson your striker, Vermeer your goalkeeper. Also your hyped up RB Van Rhijn and your big talent superstar Kishna got relegated from the Eredivisie this season. I remember your star player being Lasse Schone at some point.

Your academy just wasn't producing much and your salary cap didn't allow you to attract good players back then.

De Boer must be good at something if he can win the league 4 times consecutively despite PSV having better players in Guardado, Memphis, WIllems, Rekik, De Jong.

If your academy delivers you De Ligt, De Jong, Gravenberch, Timber and your raised salary cap allows you to get experienced players in Blind, Klaassen, Tadic, the team will obviously be more fun to watch.

If Ole wins the league 4 times in a row with a weak squad and a "fan" wouldn't celebrate and hate Ole instead because it looked like LVG's shite. I would be positive it was a rival fan wumming.
Yes, he was/is good at football. Not at being a manager. He failed everywhere but Ajax. Psv might have had some decent players but it wasnt all that amazing.

Those former Ajax players you mentioned were all very good Eredivisie players too, the level isnt very high so those Ajax players you mentioned were standout players. Lasse Schone was a good player too for example, he was part of that semi final CL campaign and important to thteam. Not the star player but still a good player.

His appointment to the national team was shocking. He also made so many mistakes already this preparation for the Euros.

i think we finish second in our group and then get knocked out. Hopefully de Boer resigns after that… just too bad Peter Bosz isnt an option to lead the national team after that.

FdB is a horrible manager and Mourinho was right to call him the worst ever manager in the EPL.
 

VanDeBank

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Ajax isn't just any other club though when it comes to style. As much as they want to win things, it only counts if it's done in the right style. If a coach like Mourinho and Simeone would get in there and do the triple (league, cup, CL) playing their defensive football, they would likely still be hated by the fans and would risk being fired if the style doesn't change the next season. You can call it whatever you want, but Ajax fans do not accept shit-on-a-stick football, no matter what it brings them.
The shit football wasn't some stylistic choice by De Boer. The players were shit. De Boer didn't play Mourinho football. Ajax had the ball, sent players forward, but lacked quality.

"hate" is a very strong word for an absolute legend. If Ole won us 4 titles in a row and some fans wanted him out because of shit football, fine. But actually hating him? Disgusting, especially if Ole had players that belong in relegated sides in his starting XI.

Those former Ajax players you mentioned were all very good Eredivisie players too, the level isnt very high so those Ajax players you mentioned were standout players. Lasse Schone was a good player too for example, he was part of that semi final CL campaign and important to thteam. Not the star player but still a good player.
Off the top of my head:

Kishna Sigtorson El Ghazi
Klaassen Serero Bazoer
Boilesen Viergever Van der Hoorn Van Rhijn
Cillessen

vs

De Jong
Depay Wijnaldum Narsingh
Maher Guardado
Willems Rekik Bruma Arias
Zoet

I'm probably mixing some of the seasons, maybe you already had upgraded Sigthorson with Milik. But I don't feel like arguing Van der Hoorn vs Veltman etc, so take it or leave it. Same for PSV.

Schone wasn't even a starter under De Boer for a long time. I'm sure he scored some important goal for you guys and he's a fan favorite, but maybe if he can't get into that line up he isn't that good, especially considering he was way closer to his prime than the rest of that squad.

Your most successful player was El Ghazi and he has improved a ton since then. Or else Klaassen/Cillessen maybe? Kishna and Van Rhijn got relegated this year. Boilesen, Moisander etc are probably in the Danish league somewhere.
No idea what happend to the others like Van der Hoorn.

Wijnaldum & Depay are great. Guardado was in his prime and captain the Mexican NT. About half (De Jong, Rekik, Willems, Bruma) are subs for good la liga/bundesliga sides. The other half I dunno.

Personally I'd take Memphis + Wijnaldum + Sevilla subs over Klaassen + Cillessen + players from Eredivisie relegated sides.

PSV had better players, and F. De Boer's Ajax still beat them to the title four times.

De Boer has done poorly since and his NT appointment was mental. Regardless, those 4 titles are impressive.
 

SATA

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Do people think the Dutch will get out of the group? They have a very poor coach but they also have some good players to carry them through. I don’t watch Barca games so i’m intrigued to watch De Jong in this tournament
 

Monkers

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Do people think the Dutch will get out of the group? They have a very poor coach but they also have some good players to carry them through. I don’t watch Barca games so i’m intrigued to watch De Jong in this tournament
Should be easy as long as Memphis keeps his good form, and our defense stop giving away easy goals.
 

BlueDutch

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The shit football wasn't some stylistic choice by De Boer. The players were shit. De Boer didn't play Mourinho football. Ajax had the ball, sent players forward, but lacked quality.

"hate" is a very strong word for an absolute legend. If Ole won us 4 titles in a row and some fans wanted him out because of shit football, fine. But actually hating him? Disgusting, especially if Ole had players that belong in relegated sides in his starting XI.



Off the top of my head:

Kishna Sigtorson El Ghazi
Klaassen Serero Bazoer
Boilesen Viergever Van der Hoorn Van Rhijn
Cillessen

vs

De Jong
Depay Wijnaldum Narsingh
Maher Guardado
Willems Rekik Bruma Arias
Zoet

I'm probably mixing some of the seasons, maybe you already had upgraded Sigthorson with Milik. But I don't feel like arguing Van der Hoorn vs Veltman etc, so take it or leave it. Same for PSV.

Schone wasn't even a starter under De Boer for a long time. I'm sure he scored some important goal for you guys and he's a fan favorite, but maybe if he can't get into that line up he isn't that good, especially considering he was way closer to his prime than the rest of that squad.

Your most successful player was El Ghazi and he has improved a ton since then. Or else Klaassen/Cillessen maybe? Kishna and Van Rhijn got relegated this year. Boilesen, Moisander etc are probably in the Danish league somewhere.
No idea what happend to the others like Van der Hoorn.

Wijnaldum & Depay are great. Guardado was in his prime and captain the Mexican NT. About half (De Jong, Rekik, Willems, Bruma) are subs for good la liga/bundesliga sides. The other half I dunno.

Personally I'd take Memphis + Wijnaldum + Sevilla subs over Klaassen + Cillessen + players from Eredivisie relegated sides.

PSV had better players, and F. De Boer's Ajax still beat them to the title four times.

De Boer has done poorly since and his NT appointment was mental. Regardless, those 4 titles are impressive.

I notice that you don't follow the Eredivisie at all because there are many mistakes in it.

Guardado and Luuk de Jong only came to PSV in the summer of 2014. In the 2014/2015 and 2015/2016 seasons they became champions with PSV. Frank de Boer has therefore lost the title to them twice and left Ajax in 2016. So weird that you add their names.

Memphis's first full season was in 2013/2014. A year later he became champion and left PSV for United. Arias, Maher and Bruma came in 2013 and lost the title to Ajax in 2014 and won the title twice in 2015 and 2016 from Ajax's Frank de Boer. Rekik played two seasons for PSV, and became champion once.
 
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VanDeBank

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De Boer really should have played the WC qualification with 5-3-2 if he intended to do the euros with it. They got clapped on the counter by Burak Yilmaz anyway and Gibraltar and Latvia should be an easy win with any system. I think he's just too stubborn to admit he doesn't have enough time to prepare. It's either my way or the highway with him.

I'm hoping he's ready to cut his losses with some players that aren't in form/struggling with the system.

Wijndal, De Roon, Krul shouldn't start based on what we've seen. Honestly even Ake and Timber looked better to me than Blind and De Ligt, although they obviously won't be dropped as easily.

I wouldn't be surprised if he does groups 4-3-3 and he's fooling everyone by hinting otherwise.

and our defense stop giving away easy goals.
Nice one.

I notice that you don't follow the Eredivisie at all because there are many mistakes in it.

Guardado and Luuk de Jong only came to PSV in the summer of 2014. In the 2014/2015 and 2015/2016 seasons they became champions with PSV. Frank de Boer has therefore lost the title to them twice and left Ajax in 2016. So weird that you add their names.

Memphis's first full season was in 2013/2014. A year later he became champion and left PSV for United. Arias, Maher and Bruma came in 2013 and lost the title to Ajax in 2014 and won the title twice in 2015 and 2016 from Ajax's Frank de Boer. Rekik played two seasons for PSV, and became champion once.
Because I don't recall the exact lineup of 2 teams I don't support 7 years ago, I don't follow the league :lol:
I even said I'd mix things up from recollection. "many mistakes" and a whole paragraph to just say Guardado and De Jong weren't in the team yet. All the others you mentioned were in the side that lost the title to Ajax.

Do people think the Dutch will get out of the group? They have a very poor coach but they also have some good players to carry them through. I don’t watch Barca games so i’m intrigued to watch De Jong in this tournament
Easily. They're playing Ukraine, Austria and North Macedonia in Amsterdam.
Memphis, Wijnaldum, F. De Jong, De Vrij are capable of carrying a bad performance.

 

VorZakone

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Such a shame they can't field a back 3 of Van Dijk, De Ligt and De Vrij in their 532. I think 99% of countries would kill to have a top 3 CB in the world, a Serie A winning CB and a young big talent CB. And yet they can only play De Vrij at the moment.