Television House of the Dragon (GoT Prequel) - No book spoilers allowed

[b82REZ]

The only one of those that should get made after HoD is Dunk & Egg (Snow is a horribly bad idea). It's by far the best option. It takes place pretty much exactly in between HoD and GoT so the landscape will be familiar but the characters different. It has some three excellent novellas already published with Martin at least having the outline for the 4th unpublished novella, the characters are iconic and really likable and/or fascinating and it gives a great opportunity to take us away from Kings Landing and into the trenches with hedge knights and common folk (in addition to some intrigue and politics). If each novella is a season I think it would be best at 6 or maybe 8 episodes (at a stretch) per season, definitely not 10. If they were smart, they would go with that because its a slam dunk!

I agree. But they might seem a bit twee in comparison to GoT and HoTD.

It actually shocked me they decided to scrap The Long Night. That seems like a sure fire hit, most fans of the show loved the WW storyline. It would also promise to give the much requested backstory to their origin. I can only assume Martin has asked such things not to be revealed as they're important in the books, or it felt too much like The Walking Dead in a medieval setting.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

I agree. But they might seem a bit twee in comparison to GoT and HoTD.

It actually shocked me they decided to scrap The Long Night. That seems like a sure fire hit, most fans of the show loved the WW storyline. It would also promise to give the much requested backstory to their origin. I can only assume Martin has asked such things not to be revealed as they're important in the books, or it felt too much like The Walking Dead in a medieval setting.

Agree about The Long Night. After Dunk & Egg that would have been my next choice for the next show. Walking Dead was super popular in the first few season so that might not be a bad thing and for me, Martin lost all rights to save things for the books when he decided to spend so much time developing TV shows and not finishing his books!

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

The Long Night was scrapped because it was too different from the original show. No dragons, no Targaryens, no Iron Throne, almost none of the main families. According to an HBO person, “Having a show that’s pure invention and had George scratching his head at various moments was troubling at times.”

They also probably panicked a bit about negative reaction to the last season and so went with the most GoTy thing they could go with, down to having literally the same theme song.

 

[b82REZ]

The Long Night was scrapped because it was too different from the original show. No dragons, no Targaryens, no Iron Throne, almost none of the main families. According to an HBO person, “Having a show that’s pure invention and had George scratching his head at various moments was troubling at times.”

They also probably panicked a bit about negative reaction to the last season and so went with the most GoTy thing they could go with, down to having literally the same theme song.

I feel like distancing themselves from GoT as much as possible after S8 would have been a good choice.

I'm enjoying HoTD, but it is GoT-lite. It has purists complaining about aspects, it's carried over bad habits from the later seasons (namely time jumps) and generally has weaker dialogue.

Moving back to an era that was so far removed from the story we saw would have given then a chance to allow angry fans time to get over S8 and reboot the series.

But the comment you posted kind of matches with what I've suspected. HBO want Martin's involvement and to be available as a consultant for his universe. While the WW started as an allegory for global warming, I feel that story has gotten away from him and he's struggling to resolve it in a satisfactory way. Which is why we got the shit show of the Long Night episode and why the books are nowhere to be seen over a decade since the last one.

 

[Zaphod2319]

I think the original Long Night 8,000 BC and the building of the Wall by Bran the Builder would be a great series, probably the best on they could do.

 

[Zaphod2319]

Hmmm not sure 8,000 BC is correct, more 8,000 years predating GoT.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Hmmm not sure 8,000 BC is correct, more 8,000 years predating GoT.

If you're saying "Before Conquering" you aren't too far off! GoT starts in 298 AC.

For me the bigger issue with something like that is that it might be odd to see something definitively told when the only accountings of it are the stuff of legends. A lot would be left up to the showrunners to establish objective truths and for me that would detract from the lore significantly.

Personally I'd rather see Dunk and Egg or the Blackfyre rebellions first - or if we want to reach back further the fall of the Rhoynar / Nymeria's voyage / the unification of Dorne.

 

[Sylar]

Long night as the first prequel after GoT might not have gone down well considering how useless they ended up being in the main GoT. The nightking especially Basically had less kills than Sam

 

[SuperiorXI]

Long night as the first prequel after GoT might not have gone down well considering how useless they ended up being in the main GoT. The nightking especially Basically had less kills than Sam

The new 'Snow' spinoff is gonna rectify this. Turns out the "night king" was just some bitch ass common NPC in beyond the wall, the main boss is further North.

 

[Sylar]

The new 'Snow' spinoff is gonna rectify this. Turns out the "night king" was just some bitch ass common NPC in beyond the wall, the main boss is further North.

I don't get why they doing Snow anyway when there's a character who would be better for doing a story aboit. Nothing is more powerful than a good story. And who has a better story...

Than bran the broken

 

[SuperiorXI]

I don't get why they doing Snow anyway when there's a character who would be better for doing a story aboit. Nothing is more powerful than a good story. And who has a better story...

Than bran the broken

Agreed. I'd love to see 10-hours of bran been wheeled about.

 

[diarm]

This series is doing nothing to change my opinion that GoT went to shit the day they decided to stop taking their time to tell the story. It was at some point around or shortly after Hardhome that they made a clear decision to start dialling it in. There were some good episodes after that, largely built around characters we'd invested in as they developed over several seasons, but by and large the quality of the show collapsed.

 

[atkar83]

This series is doing nothing to change my opinion that GoT went to shit the day they decided to stop taking their time to tell the story. It was at some point around or shortly after Hardhome that they made a clear decision to start dialling it in. There were some good episodes after that, largely built around characters we'd invested in as they developed over several seasons, but by and large the quality of the show collapsed.

There isn't a 'they' in this case, it was D&D the showwriters. They're the idiots that wanted to wrap up 60 hours worth of intricate story which seemed to be half way done in 13 more hours. HBO wanted them to take their time and go to 10 seasons, but they said no because they wanted to focus on the star wars netflix ip which was cancelled anyway. Even season 6 started showing signs of worse writing, basically D&D did great translating GRRMs story, but failed when they ran out of source material.

The story in HOTD is simply over decades, so it can't be the slow burn seasons 1-4 of GoT were. They're not rushing for rushing sake like D&D

 

[SalfordRed18]

This series is doing nothing to change my opinion that GoT went to shit the day they decided to stop taking their time to tell the story. It was at some point around or shortly after Hardhome that they made a clear decision to start dialling it in. There were some good episodes after that, largely built around characters we'd invested in as they developed over several seasons, but by and large the quality of the show collapsed.

But why would it? It was never for that?

 

[diarm]

The story in HOTD is simply over decades, so it can't be the slow burn seasons 1-4 of GoT were.

Why not?

 

[atkar83]

Why not?

Because Game of thrones season 1 was based on a whole book for example. Season 1 of HOTD is based in a chapter or two. So unless you want Hobbit level of filler what they're doing is the best way to tell the story. They can't do a slow burn of a period that's explained over a paragraph or two

 

[diarm]

Because Game of thrones season 1 was based on a whole book for example. Season 1 of HOTD is based in a chapter or two. So unless you want Hobbit level of filler what they're doing is the best way to tell the story. They can't do a slow burn of a period that's explained over a paragraph or two

If there was so little source material, I wouldn't have bothered making the show. It isn't good.

The same way The Hobbit should've been one film instead of 3. They're just making stuff to exploit the name and goodwill generated by what went before.

I'm not sure why I'm giving out about it to be honest. I'm just not going to watch any more and act as though GoT ended at Hardhome.

 

[b82REZ]

If there was so little source material, I wouldn't have bothered making the show. It isn't good.

The same way The Hobbit should've been one film instead of 3. They're just making stuff to exploit the name and goodwill generated by what went before.

I'm not sure why I'm giving out about it to be honest. I'm just not going to watch any more and act as though GoT ended at Hardhome.

The first part of the story is simply set dressing for what eventually happens.

Had they jumped straight into that people would have complained they had no investment in the characters.

They're damned if they do, damned if they don't.

You seem to fall into the group that can't get past the shit show of the final few seasons of GoT. I thought I'd be in the group, but this show is doing a good job. Obviously it isn't peak GoT but it's serviceable and it's doing a good job of adapting what amounts to no more than 60 pages across two fake history books.

 

[roseguy64]

If there was so little source material, I wouldn't have bothered making the show. It isn't good.

The same way The Hobbit should've been one film instead of 3. They're just making stuff to exploit the name and goodwill generated by what went before.

I'm not sure why I'm giving out about it to be honest. I'm just not going to watch any more and act as though GoT ended at Hardhome.

Where was it said there was little source material? You've taken that simple answer and extrapolated it over the entire run of the show. There's enough source material for what's left.

 

[diarm]

The first part of the story is simply set dressing for what eventually happens.

Had they jumped straight into that people would have complained they had no investment in the characters.

They're damned if they do, damned if they don't.

You seem to fall into the group that can't get past the shit show of the final few seasons of GoT. I thought I'd be in the group, but this show is doing a good job. Obviously it isn't peak GoT but it's serviceable and it's doing a good job of adapting what amounts to no more than 60 pages across two fake history books.

What investment into the characters have we had? Rushing and time jumping between half told and poorly written stories isn't character building.

 

[b82REZ]

What investment into the characters have we had? Rushing and time jumping between half told and poorly written stories isn't character building.

There is investment though. Hence the backlash to the changing of actors mid season.

The reason for the time jumps is simply because the era it's set in was one of peace and not much happens.

The show hasn't done a good job with the time jumps and they have been quite jarring but to pretend there has been no character development is disingenuous.

 

[Faetheshire86]

I'm enjoying the show so far. Acting, writing and production have all been good.

I definitely have an issue with the last episode though. It felt very rushed. Just as they were re-establishing the power dynamic in Kings Landing after the time jump, they immediately flipped it on its head, instead of letting us stew in the tension that was building. The Larys stuff came out of nowhere. I think the show runners wanted it to feel like a Littlefinger betraying Ned moment, but refused to do any of the groundwork to establish the character. The episode should have been separated into two hours at least, but I feel like they don't have the confidence, to not push ahead to the main conflict. Maybe something to do with there being no guarantee of a season two?

I also feel like the show is lacking a little... soul? None of the characters (that are going to be around for any length of time) feel very endearing. There's nobody out of their comfort zone, no underdogs. Everyone knows the game they are playing. It's like we are spectating a high level chess match, which is intriguing, but I don't feel like I'm emotionally invested in anyone at this point. To be fair, this is true to form for Kings Landing politics, it's very cut throat in GoT, but we are missing characters like Tyrion, Jon Snow, Daenerys, Arya, Davos who bring an element of playfulness or naivety.

There's obviously a lot more to come and I have enjoyed it this far, but I do feel like the story could have been told in a different way that would have made it even better. Maybe earlier, more frequent time jumps. Maybe starting the story further along and using flashbacks for context. Maybe something more drastic like the Witcher season 1 with multiple timelines simultaneously.

 

[flameinthesun]

GoT had more 'main characters' to follow. This one has about five or six but I think the addition of the kids is a good thing

I think this actually has some truth to it. From the get go GoT had multiple storylines and characters to follow where as HoD really you are only following a small core group of characters. Also I think HoD doesn't do as good a job of giving backstory on the different families, lands, how they differ from GoT etc as well as more backstory on the different valeryian families, their ancestors etc. I still like the show but its moving at a faster pace the GoT was in the first season which is probably down to a smaller group of key players.

 

[NieThePiet]

Felt like the show is just starting with episode 6 and in the first 5 episodes we got some background informations to understand the characters better.

The development of all the new kids will be interesting over the next episodes/seasons, if they will be similar exciting like Arya, Sansa & Co.

 

[Beans]

Not bad, glad we're getting scenes with the kids, there's been too much focus on the Queen and the Heir. Having the Queen lose it was good because otherwise the animosity might get stale.

I guess I can't help compare it to GOT, so it seems to need more characters, but that's probably unfair.

I think I like the kid with one eye better than anyone else on the show. Who are we supposed to be rooting for?

 

[Organic Potatoes]

This funeral episode was as good as the wedding one. It is good to have Otto Hightower back, as he’s a great character. The twist at the end was interesting.

I think I like the kid with one eye better than anyone else on the show. Who are we supposed to be rooting for?

I think they’re all ‘grey’ at this point but if anyone from the greens wins I hope it’s him and his weird sister. She’s got some wild wizardry or something to her.

 

[Scarlett Dracarys]

Well that's more like it.
Should we be disgusted by the whole Daemon Rhaenyra bit because I'm not.
We were meant to burn together. Love it.
Alicent losing her shit was a bit overdue and I love it when Daemon stepped in to check Sir Cole as if to remind him to know his place.

 

[Man of Leisure]

The scenes with the kids this week and last were the best. Lol'd when the 4 of them started ganging up on the dragon stealing one.

And finally, a bit of humor from the writers when the king yells at the one-eye kid "look at me".

Btw, how can the queen trump the king when ordering Ser Criston? It's the kingsguard, not the queensguard ffs. Liked the clever ending.

 

[Stack]

Ok so from the episode 8 teaser it looks like we get another time jump.

 

[Revan]

The only one of those that should get made after HoD is Dunk & Egg (Snow is a horribly bad idea). It's by far the best option. It takes place pretty much exactly in between HoD and GoT so the landscape will be familiar but the characters different. It has some three excellent novellas already published with Martin at least having the outline for the 4th unpublished novella, the characters are iconic and really likable and/or fascinating and it gives a great opportunity to take us away from Kings Landing and into the trenches with hedge knights and common folk (in addition to some intrigue and politics). If each novella is a season I think it would be best at 6 or maybe 8 episodes (at a stretch) per season, definitely not 10. If they were smart, they would go with that because its a slam dunk!

Dunk and Egg would be excellent for all the reasons you mentioned. Essentially, it is Firefly in ASOIAF universe. And it would be refreshing considering that the two main characters are nice, instead of cynical.

 

[Gehrman]

Boring episode and series so far mostly. It lacks great characters and well a story as well.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Well that's more like it.
Should we be disgusted by the whole Daemon Rhaenyra bit because I'm not.
We were meant to burn together. Love it.
Alicent losing her shit was a bit overdue and I love it when Daemon stepped in to check Sir Cole as if to remind him to know his place.

Not at all, I cheered when they first kissed. It does seem like they were meant to be together.

Btw, how can the queen trump the king when ordering Ser Criston? It's the kingsguard, not the queensguard ffs. Liked the clever ending.

It was also to show Viserys losing control. He does not command fear from his subjects at all.

 

[Gehrman]

They really should have kept the actress who plays Rhaenyra. She had much more screen presence and charisma.

 

[Red Shorts]

They really should have kept the actress who plays Rhaenyra. She had much more screen presence and charisma.

Yeah not feeling "grown-up" Rhaenyra at all, very little presence in comparison

 

[Van Piorsing]

Deamon in recent episode - 'Each of us is capable of depravity.'

No spoilers, yet so many future events foretold.

 

[RexHamilton]

Dark, isn’t it?

 

[Van Piorsing]

Dark, isn’t it?

Yup. I had to turn on brightness to almost 100.

 

[Faetheshire86]

Dark, isn’t it?

I'm pretty sure those scenes were shot in the day time and darkened later. I was fine with it for the Rhae-Mon scene, but why were there no torches at the ceremony? It looked daft and flat.

Other than that I really enjoyed that episode

 

[RedDevilRoshi]

A good episode. Especially that scene after the kids fight.

Who were the two guys in the boat rowing towards the ship at the end?

 

[Stack]

Who were the two guys in the boat rowing towards the ship at the end?

Haha seriously?