How bad do we really think it is?

[UnitedFire]

Out of 10, how bad is it?
10 we are getting relegated, 1 we are winning the title, stop moaning #topred

Among a lot going on, I just want to pause for thought and reflection. We aren't entirely clear when Ronaldo has asked to leave or why, but we now know 6 weeks after the season has finished that he has confirmed he wants to go.

If this came out 4-6 weeks ago it wouldn't be a surprise. He deserves Champions League, potentially wants it for profile, etc, but now you have to assume there is more to it.

For all our very reasonable questioning over how slow business is happening you would hope Ronaldo would have more reassurance internally.

Malacia has more or less been confirmed. FDJ sounds very close. Martinez rumours are very strong. Antony noise kicking around. Whilst things are slow this surely shouldn't be a put off unless there is more to it. Do we actually have a very low budget. Is Malacia, FDJ and Martinez all we can do and Ronaldo knows that isn't enough? Is it worse and actually FDJ sounds like a no go and won't get over the line?

Despite the above rumours, we haven't actually confirmed any purchases or sales. Even the here we go on Malacia hasn't been confirmed by the club 24 hours later.

We've lost three starters...Matic, Pogba, Cavani
We've lost two reserves who were previously big players for us...Mata and Lingard.
We've loaned our backup keeper...Henderson

We still have plenty of outgoings that either should happen or are desired to happen. I won't repeat these, but it's a squad that is still bloated with a lot that needs to go.

I've been concerned about the lack of business and very vocal about it, but it was as much from a frustration/ impatience/ concern perspective as opposed to thinking we wouldn't end up in a better place than last year.

But the Ronaldo news has me wondering if we are being spun bullshit again. Think about the Bruno deal that dragged from the summer till the end of Jan and could easily have been the following summer if not for trying to save Oles job. Sancho was a whole year later.

What proof do we have that we are well organised, well structured and with a clear plan. We hope its getting better. ETH was convinced, but Rangnick certainly changed his tune.

I'd like to maintain positivity and hope the Ronaldo news was just timing, but coming out before any confirmed deals is a worry. Has a spanner actually been thrown in the bag and we are now back scratching our heads.

I have to say I'm feeling its about a 5/10 bad. Mid table looking very likely for next year. I'd say five percent chance of Champions League at best.

 

[Matriac]

2 out of 10.

We finish top 4 without much issue, but can't compete for the league with or without Ronaldo. Next summer we have to put a lot of funds into a striker to take the next step unless Garnacho becomes a 10 times bigger player than he is today.

 

[UnitedFire]

2 out of 10.

We finish top 4 without much issue, but can't compete for the league with or without Ronaldo. Next summer we have to put a lot of funds into a striker to take the next step unless Garnacho becomes a 10 times bigger player than he is today.

You do realise Spurs have done a lot of good business. Chelsea are well ahead of us. Liverpool and City are taking top 2. Arsenal are trying to make progress.

I dont see us being in the top 5 with any reasonably believable budgets

 

[Loony BoB]

2-4 with or without new signings, because it's impossible to guess how we'll end up under a new manager and which players will step up and which won't.

 

[Matriac]

You do realise Spurs have done a lot of good business. Chelsea are well ahead of us. Liverpool and City are taking top 2. Arsenal are trying to make progress.

I dont see us being in the top 5 with any reasonably believable budgets

City likely wins the league, pool might have another off-season again, but even if not then the gunners will fall short, spurs is spurs and Chelsea you never know where you have.
Over a full season with a competent coach we will get enough points for top 4, even with our issues.

We're going to get enough quality players in this window, even if we end up without a pure striker. Will it be ideal, no. Will we win a lot of games, yes.

 

[Flying high]

2 out of 10.

We finish top 4 without much issue, but can't compete for the league with or without Ronaldo. Next summer we have to put a lot of funds into a striker to take the next step unless Garnacho becomes a 10 times bigger player than he is today.

Really? I think we'll struggle to finish top 6, and that's with a few decent signings. As it stands, we're a top half side, just.

 

[horsechoker]

3.6

 

[Long Time Red]

Player for player we are still better than Arsenal and Spurs and after this transfer window we will have a deeper squad.

We might even steal 3rd in the unlikely event City, Liverpool or Chelsea have a poor year.

 

[Matriac]

Really? I think we'll struggle to finish top 6, and that's with a few decent signings. As it stands, we're a top half side, just.

Top 4 was SO there for the taking for us this season, if only we didn't have a caretaker manager that lost the dressingroom in the first week of February.

Every other club except top 2 were unconvincing and could easily be caught up to with some consistency.

 

[Carl]

Out of 10, how bad is it?
10 we are getting relegated, 1 we are winning the title, stop moaning #topred

Among a lot going on, I just want to pause for thought and reflection. We aren't entirely clear when Ronaldo has asked to leave or why, but we now know 6 weeks after the season has finished that he has confirmed he wants to go.

If this came out 4-6 weeks ago it wouldn't be a surprise. He deserves Champions League, potentially wants it for profile, etc, but now you have to assume there is more to it.

For all our very reasonable questioning over how slow business is happening you would hope Ronaldo would have more reassurance internally.

Malacia has more or less been confirmed. FDJ sounds very close. Martinez rumours are very strong. Antony noise kicking around. Whilst things are slow this surely shouldn't be a put off unless there is more to it. Do we actually have a very low budget. Is Malacia, FDJ and Martinez all we can do and Ronaldo knows that isn't enough? Is it worse and actually FDJ sounds like a no go and won't get over the line?

Despite the above rumours, we haven't actually confirmed any purchases or sales. Even the here we go on Malacia hasn't been confirmed by the club 24 hours later.

We've lost three starters...Matic, Pogba, Cavani
We've lost two reserves who were previously big players for us...Mata and Lingard.
We've loaned our backup keeper...Henderson

We still have plenty of outgoings that either should happen or are desired to happen. I won't repeat these, but it's a squad that is still bloated with a lot that needs to go.

I've been concerned about the lack of business and very vocal about it, but it was as much from a frustration/ impatience/ concern perspective as opposed to thinking we wouldn't end up in a better place than last year.

But the Ronaldo news has me wondering if we are being spun bullshit again. Think about the Bruno deal that dragged from the summer till the end of Jan and could easily have been the following summer if not for trying to save Oles job. Sancho was a whole year later.

What proof do we have that we are well organised, well structured and with a clear plan. We hope its getting better. ETH was convinced, but Rangnick certainly changed his tune.

I'd like to maintain positivity and hope the Ronaldo news was just timing, but coming out before any confirmed deals is a worry. Has a spanner actually been thrown in the bag and we are now back scratching our heads.

I have to say I'm feeling its about a 5/10 bad. Mid table looking very likely for next year. I'd say five percent chance of Champions League at best.

If we've got players leaving because its shit, then it's pretty bad.

 

[ForeverRed1]

We don’t know what they got up their sleeve yet. We just have to ride it out. I’m sure there will be incomings... unfortunately we have no champions league. No chance of winning much..

Time to really start a rebuild. Play youth. Work with what we have and add some good, hard working, hungry players. Forget big names, forget winning anything next season and just focus on improving.

if we manage to get frenkie, Eriksen, Martinez and malacia we could be semi decent.

 

[Charles Miller]

We hired a very good manager to develop a playing style and this is what really matters. If we can't sign all the players we need now, we do it in the next windows. When you have a clear identity as a team is cheaper to reinforce, because you don't need to sign super players to fix or hide tactical failures.

 

[Red the Bear]

I'm not too bothered, no point in fretting over things such as this.

I still expect us to make the top 4 this season as things stands which isn't too bad.

 

[Mickeza]

I’m at a 3-4. If FDJ is tied up and if the club are just playing poker but actually want Ronaldo gone with replacements lined up then we could have a great summer. If FDJ isn’t interested in joining and Ronaldo has blindsided us then then this summer has all the makings of a fecking disaster.

 

[cyberman]

I’m happy enough with Ten Hag working with our youngsters. Can’t be as bad as what we’re looking at now

 

[UnitedFire]

If we've got players leaving because its shit, then it's pretty bad.

This thread is fantastic for seeing the insane optimism that runs through our fan base!

 

[Carl]

This thread is fantastic for seeing the insane optimism that runs through our fan base!

There's no reason to he optimistic. I like the players we're signing, but our only striker is still a 38 year old that wants to leave. The depth across the front 3 is Ronaldo, Sancho, Rashford, Elanga and Martial. That's it, and it's piss poor.

 

[UnitedFire]

I’m at a 3-4. If FDJ is tied up and if the club are just playing poker but actually want Ronaldo gone with replacements lined up then we could have a great summer. If FDJ isn’t interested in joining and Ronaldo has blindsided us then then this summer has all the makings of a fecking disaster.

The fine lines in football. If we did have a £250-300m budget the transformation would be very very good with long term solutions nicely warming up. We'd secure top 4 probably comfortably and could build on that next summer in a more gradual way, as we keep trying to rotate the lesser elements of the squad for improvements.

If we only spend £170m and lose Ronaldo we are up shit creek, praying for a star to arrive from the youth or Martial/ Rashford and very likely aren't getting top 4 and will probably lose £100m potential income as a result more with sponsorship, club value, contracts, player value, etc


It's another perfect example of the Glazers being put in the spot light to make or break the summer. Investment will likely reap more returns than the cost, but do they have the balls/ business nouse through a football lense.

 

[Cole9]

Joke of a club. Nothing would surprise me next season, even EtH not making it until the end of the season.

 

[RedSky]

Hard to say until we know what signings we make.

 

[Zoo]

I believe we have a coach who is current, at the top of his game and seems to know what he wants so am relatively relaxed. We just need to be a bit patient.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Joke of a club. Nothing would surprise me next season, even EtH not making it until the end of the season.

This shouldn't make us unhappy though despite not wanting to lose ETH. If this was to happen then that's the end of the Glazers surely. How do they come back from all this and then ETH leaving too?

That would be a better result than coming 4th for me. New owners will feel like being PL champions again.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

No idea. Certainly not a 6-10, all depends on signings and the new manager.

Why would anyone even hazard a guess?

 

[UnitedFire]

No idea. Certainly not a 6-10, all depends on signings and the new manager.

Why would anyone even hazard a guess?

Because we all say a lot on here so its good to put people to the sword on their opinions.

We have a reasonable take on how the transfer window is going and every week is another reference point, but now is an interesting temperature check with the general nervousness around the window.

 

[Flying high]

Top 4 was SO there for the taking for us this season, if only we didn't have a caretaker manager that lost the dressingroom in the first week of February.

Every other club except top 2 were unconvincing and could easily be caught up to with some consistency.

It was, and we fell way short. And now we've lost some of our better players and our new manager has zero PL experience. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we're in the bottom half of the table this year. Our squad is a total shambles and seriously lacking in quality.

 

[Buzzbee]

I try to be optimistic, and say Utd get 3rd. Coaching a proper system, some improved self confidence and the players will all be a lot better for it.

Plus if ETH can get that Ajax press going OT will absolute love it, and the atmosphere will improve, and momentum will be rolling

 

[Vapor trail]

It depends the squad is full of players with below par ability in contrast to the league's best and the character of many players on the field has shown to be quite weak.

There are so many uncertainties including around people like John Murtough, there's no indication that any of the changes the club is and has made will have an impactful positive effect. There's too much in the air for a decent ground of confidence. The most surprising element would be ETH being far better than anyone anticipates and raising the level of this team. The latter is somewhat where he hope is.

 

[Swearing Budgie]

I think we will have a shit summer and a shit season. And that’s me being positive.

 

[Tibs]

In a world with a competent set of people doing the business, we'd have made ETH's signings already so he had as much time as possible to gel them into the team.

We'd have also let a few more players go who aren't good enough, we've not done that.

So when the new manager needed things to be in place for him, he hasn't got his players, and Pogba has gone, as our only goal scorer also wants to leave. Not ideal.

But I'm sure we'll announce some new sponsorship deal with a fecking radiator manufacturer soon! That's the main thing innit biznis

 

[pacifictheme]

You do realise Spurs have done a lot of good business. Chelsea are well ahead of us. Liverpool and City are taking top 2. Arsenal are trying to make progress.

I dont see us being in the top 5 with any reasonably believable budgets

Are Chelsea way ahead? They have no defenders.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I usually always find some faith in us getting the league. Now with City getting Haaland, Spurs improve, Chelsea getting Sterling possibly I struggle to see us challenge. Can see Liverpool decline, but still should beat us.

Under Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho I had much more hope for us to do something. The only hope is Ten Haag being fantastic, but our squad has done so badly that we need additions as well.

It could get good with time, but for us to have a great season I can't see it. We are not even the 4th best team in the league in theory. All other top teams also got world class managers apart from Arsenal.

 

[Ludens the Red]

I know people don’t like so much negativity and I get it’s pre season, we have a new manager, we’re supposedly going to sign players and so should be optimistic. But if you look at it from a non United viewpoint and analyse what has gone on at the club in the last year the only conclusion to come to is that the club is a total mess and most people working for the club are incompetent feckheads.

- When you lose several first team players in one window on frees, including players that you could have sold for money in the previous summer.
- When your best player asks to leave the club five days before you fly out for your pre season tour.
- When your ceo goes to the pub to argue with fans about what’s best for the club.
- When your caretaker manager spends five months telling everyone he doesn’t have a fecking clue what’s going on at the club.
- when pre season is five days away and you’ve signed absolutely nobody.
- when most people at the club think the captain is a muppet.
- dressing room leaks.
- when you make a big song and dance about a new transfer and recruitment committee but five days before you fly out for a pre season tour the only players you’re negotiating with either played for Ajax or/and are in the eredivisie. This isn’t a criticism of ten Haag but it’s telling.

I don’t see how the logical viewpoint from the outside can be that this is a club heading in the right direction about to have a good season. It doesn’t make any sense.

 

[Smores]

I didn't think we'd finish top 4 easily even with a good summer. As it stands there's little chance.

All I wanted was us to give ETH the tools to have a good shot at it. I'm fine with a slow rebuild but no getting away from two seasons without CL being a disaster that'll hamper rebuild efforts.

 

[UnitedFire]

I know people don’t like so much negativity and I get it’s pre season, we have a new manager, we’re supposedly going to sign players and so should be optimistic. But if you look at it from a non United viewpoint and analyse what has gone on at the club in the last year the only conclusion to come to is that the club is a total mess and most people working for the club are incompetent feckheads.

- When you lose several first team players in one window on frees, including players that you could have sold for money in the previous summer.
- When your best player asks to leave the club five days before you fly out for your pre season tour.
- When your ceo goes to the pub to argue with fans about what’s best for the club.
- When your caretaker manager spends five months telling everyone he doesn’t have a fecking clue what’s going on at the club.
- when pre season is five days away and you’ve signed absolutely nobody.
- when most people at the club think the captain is a muppet.
- dressing room leaks.
- when you make a big song and dance about a new transfer and recruitment committee but five days before you fly out for a pre season tour the only players you’re negotiating with either played for Ajax or/and are in the eredivisie. This isn’t a criticism of ten Haag but it’s telling.

I don’t see how the logical viewpoint from the outside can be that this is a club heading in the right direction about to have a good season. It doesn’t make any sense.

Very good post and bang on

 

[Dante]

π

 

[Dread Devil]

It has to be positive. We have a proper manager now…one who has shown he can make a playing style and also man manage players …

There is no way he could come in and say he doesn’t want Ronaldo…but Ronaldo feels he won’t get his own way and we shouldn’t let Ronaldo dictate….if he was 23 maybe but we have to look to the future and with Ten Hag we should have a proper chance..

I may be optimistic but I think he can push the players we have to higher levels as well as introducing youth and new players..we have to get behind the manager this time..it’s obvious he is here to make it work…let’s work with him..

 

[AaronRedDevil]

If Ronaldo leave we are proper Fecked.

 

[Bondi77]

Just look forward to a new start and stop all the fecking negativity!
Makes me wonder how some of you can summon up the energy to get out of bed in the morning.

 

[Keefy18]

I know people don’t like so much negativity and I get it’s pre season, we have a new manager, we’re supposedly going to sign players and so should be optimistic. But if you look at it from a non United viewpoint and analyse what has gone on at the club in the last year the only conclusion to come to is that the club is a total mess and most people working for the club are incompetent feckheads.

- When you lose several first team players in one window on frees, including players that you could have sold for money in the previous summer.
- When your best player asks to leave the club five days before you fly out for your pre season tour.
- When your ceo goes to the pub to argue with fans about what’s best for the club.
- When your caretaker manager spends five months telling everyone he doesn’t have a fecking clue what’s going on at the club.
- when pre season is five days away and you’ve signed absolutely nobody.
- when most people at the club think the captain is a muppet.
- dressing room leaks.
- when you make a big song and dance about a new transfer and recruitment committee but five days before you fly out for a pre season tour the only players you’re negotiating with either played for Ajax or/and are in the eredivisie. This isn’t a criticism of ten Haag but it’s telling.

I don’t see how the logical viewpoint from the outside can be that this is a club heading in the right direction about to have a good season. It doesn’t make any sense.

- Sacking the caretaker manager for his preferred role as consultant and aiding the rebuild
- Hiring a temporary consultant weeks into the transfer window to handle the legal side of the transfers
- Chasing a player who has openly admitted he's happy where he is, along with the manager and board stating adamantly he's going nowhere!

Great post and folks should keep adding to this.. penny might drop finally with the rest of then.

 

[Keefy18]

If we rule out Ronaldo our current best possible eleven includes Dalot, Maguire, Shaw, McT, Fred, Rashford and Elanga/Martial. It's fecking terrible, worst we've ever been in living memory.

Even ETH, Klopp and Pep together wouldn't get such a stonkingly shit team into the top six let alone top four.

Absolutely agree.

Getting rinsed by mates and on social media, folks fully buying into the new manager and surely be better narrative.

Not a hope ETH can get this lot working into a good team and fighting comfortably in a top 4 spot.

I reckon midtable beckon, possibly a bottom half finish.