How do we balance this Man Utd-team?

[RUCK4444]

I’m amused at how convinced you are that this is a one player solution, and even moreso that Declan Rice is the solution to suddenly make an utterly clueless team look World class.

The problems are all over the pitch. Good managers make sides look good with Tom Cleverley, John O’Shea, Phil Lamn, James Milner, Jordan Henderson etc in CM, because it’s always about the whole picture, not just one position.

I didn’t say Rice. But he could do a job for us.

But yes, a top level DM improves us in multiple areas.

The right one knits the midfield to attack, brings balance and actually makes the players we have currently in midfield viable partners/options for said player.
It would improve this constant issue of teams playing directly through the middle of us when Matic likes to go for a wonder.

I’ve posted for 2 years that a top level DM would improve multiple areas for us, this season whilst we are trying to integrate 3 players to the starting 11 at the same time those issues have been highlighted.

 

[RedRonaldo]

De Gea
AWB Varane Maguire Shaw
Fred Mctominay Pogba
Bruno
Ronaldo Cavani​

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

We need to play 443.

Bruno needs to play deeper and help the midfield two out. Sir Alex figured that out about 20 years ago.

Rashford Ronaldo Sancho
Pogba Fernandes
McTominay
Shaw Maguire Varane AWB
De Gea

Why haven't we seen this lineup yet?

The only argument would be Greenwood instead of Sancho. But Sancho was signed to play right wing in a 433 or 4231.

We saw something similar against Villareal and got battered. We've not seen it enough to judge but the balance didnt seem great.

 

[Berbasbullet]

We need to play 443.

Bruno needs to play deeper and help the midfield two out. Sir Alex figured that out about 20 years ago.

Rashford Ronaldo Sancho
Pogba Fernandes
McTominay
Shaw Maguire Varane AWB
De Gea

Why haven't we seen this lineup yet?

The only argument would be Greenwood instead of Sancho. But Sancho was signed to play right wing in a 433 or 4231.

Because Rashford has been fit for a week? And we tried that midfield against Villarral and it was awful.

 

[redshaw]

We saw something similar against Villareal and got battered. We've not seen it enough to judge but the balance didnt seem great.

Ole said it ended up with just McTom on his own and on his very poor form is not surprising they just ran through us, I don't think it was a properly instructed 433.

 

[stw2022]

Playing central midfielders or forwards as wide midfielders isn’t something I’ve ever been a fan of. It’s disrespectful to how important a properly constructed when it’s just made up of players who can’t be fit into their preferred positions. Wide forwards aren’t part of an organised and effective midfield. Nor are central players shifted wide simply because there’s no room in the middle

 

[charlenefan]

True! That is a valid point. «My setup» could hurt Rashford. But I think we should sacrifice Bruno or Rashford for the benefit of the team. Not by not playing them, but playing them in a position where they might not be at their best.

Your setup is basically how we play today. I think it leaves our midfield with too much space to cover as Bruno basically plays as a second striker much of the time. Furthermore, Greenwood, Rashford and Sancho really have to improve when the other team have the ball. That is why Mourinho wanted Perisic and Willian (never agreed with that, but we have to try to find a solution).

we all know what the solution is

we can point to formations and personnel but the team we have should be challenging and it can't be solely on needing to keep buying better players anymore

 

[Sandikan]

De Gea
AWB Varane Maguire Shaw
Fred Mctominay Pogba
Bruno
Ronaldo Cavani​

Is one solution, but means no place for our 75m man Sancho, no Rashford or Greenwood.
Latter two could play in a front 2, but where does Sancho fit in?

 

[RUCK4444]

Gotta agree with this. Fred is not a DM despite tackling a lot, he ventured more forward in Shakhtar and was hard to mark due to constant movement off the ball which gave him time to make attacking runs.

We could really use correct profile for that position in order to finally find coherent system.

Yes on Fred I read his coach at Shakhtar thought of him as an advanced midfielder rather than the DM we tend to play him as.

If Fred could play as more of an 8 he could get forward and use his excellent energy to raise our pressing game. I’m not saying that’s the way to go with Fred as our A game, just that these players can offer a lot more when we have a DM specialist. That’s the balance in selection we are missing.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

Bring back Dan James.

 

[sp_107]

Ronaldo——————Mason
——————Bruno
———Pogba——DvB/McT
——————-Fred
Shaw-Varane-Lindelof-AWB
——————-DDG

Rashford/Sancho/Cavani// Leaving out 3 top class players who can create some width and space

 

[sp_107]

Rashoford--Ronaldo--Sancho front 3 with Fred/Bruno/Pogba in midfiled(Bruno pllaying more close to Fred than Ronaldo)

 

[VivaRonaldo85]

DDG
AWB Varane Maguire Shaw
Rice
Bruno Pogba
Greenwood Ronaldo Rashford

The front 5 are coached to press as a cohesive unit. Rice pulls the strings linking defence with attack. This is kind of in the mould of the successful City teams where they played Fernandinho and 5 more attacking players.

We could change the front 3 with Sancho, Cavani & Martial but the same principles would apply. If they don’t want to do the hard work, there’s the exit door.

In summary, one signing and a top class coach to get them working as a unit both with and without the ball.

 

[Eli Zee]

Is one solution, but means no place for our 75m man Sancho, no Rashford or Greenwood.
Latter two could play in a front 2, but where does Sancho fit in?

Drop a defender and play 3 at back. Dominate and kill games with our attack

 

[RedRonaldo]

Is one solution, but means no place for our 75m man Sancho, no Rashford or Greenwood.
Latter two could play in a front 2, but where does Sancho fit in?

Well this thread is about finding balance, based on our current team. If we want to play Sancho, Rashford or Greenwood, we would need far better DM pairs than what we have, to form as our midfield core, where we should be able to control more.

Otherwise I would go for more midfielders than attackers, to avoid getting overplayed and outnumbered in midfield.

In attack I prefer to have our best presser (Cavani), best goalscorer (Ronaldo), and best attack creator/support (Bruno)

We just can't afford to play 3 goalscorer in attack without the pressing (ie Ronaldo, Greenwood and Rashford) and without any good midfield support.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Ole said it ended up with just McTom on his own and on his very poor form is not surprising they just ran through us, I don't think it was a properly instructed 433.

It probabaly wasnt, however its more obcious when Pogba plays deep and from the start of that game he was running in beyond the defence, which must have been what he was instructed to do.

 

[Highfather_24]

We need to stop playing 4 attackers and 2 midfielders, and instead play with 3 attackers and 3 midfielders. We dont have the creativity from fullbacks like Liverpool to play 3 grunts in midfield, or the wide players that can keep width for free roaming 8s like City. We tried that against Villareal with Pogba and Bruno, and it wont work. We need to play either one of them in the midfield. A balanced hardworking midfield along with a fluid front 3.

Rashford--Bruno--Ronaldo
---------Pogba-----Fred
-----------------Matic

With Sancho, Cavani, Lingard, VdB and Greenwood as options from the bench.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

If we want to fit Bruno, Pogba and Ronaldo in our team, then we should probably go with what Deschamps has recently moved to with France - a 3412.

Ronaldo Greenwood
Bruno
Shaw Pogba McTominay Wan-Bissaka
Maguire Varane Lindelof
De Gea​

 

[MasterCode]

I really don't think its as complicated as people are making it.
Whatever is the more defensive side of the midfield pivot play Maguire behind that position.

So if we go Pogba Fred and Fred is on the left hand side. Play Maguire as the Left sided CB and have Varane last man. (If its Scott which on current form, it shouldn't be then I would play Maguire RCB, but Scotts off form so no)

That Leicester game Pogba screened Maguire and it was a disaster show on the counter.

Maguire just needs protection, as a team we get our shots off, score goals, it's just with Lindeloff and Maguire they need their hands held a little bit thats all. I feel Varane is fine being countered one on one. He faced the counter practically his entire Madrid career. Maguire is a central defender perfect for low block teams very different to being the defender being last man when your teams pressing the issue.

It's literally similar to when Chelsea screened Terry with an Essien, Makelele, Geremi or Lass. People forget Carvallho was last man not Terry.

We haven't got a DM but these CBs should be good enough to carry our attack.

I'll say it again we look as open as Liverpool did last season with their CB crisis. Only difference is we aren't using makeshift CBs, think about that.

 

[NZT-One]

If we want to fit Bruno, Pogba and Ronaldo in our team, then we should probably go with what Deschamps has recently moved to with France - a 3412.

Ronaldo Greenwood
Bruno
Shaw Pogba McTominay Wan-Bissaka
Maguire Varane Lindelof
De Gea​

And have Rashford and Sancho on the bench. Our highest value players. Not even speaking about Fred who got benched for the academy graduate. I like the formation as well, but it has to be Fred for McTom and Rashford for Greenwood.

It is a nightmare to fit those offensive players into one system. We probably should stop trying to do it and play the players who are the most fit and the most promising based on current training observations and based on what will hurt the opponent the most.

 

[mancan92]

It would help a hell of a lot if Bruno was setup to actually be a third midfielder or a number 10 rather than a second striker/ striker.

 

[the_cliff]

Quite a simple solution. Drop Bruno and go 4-3-3

De Gea
awb Maguire Varane Shaw
Mc Fred Pogba
Greenwood Ronaldo Sancho/Rashford

 

[honirelandboy]

Even if we get two world class defensive midfielders we are still going to suffer with lack of tactics.

Scholes summed it perfectly the other night.

Need to go 4-3-3

 

[Waynne]

4 - 5 - 1

--------------- MATIC ----- POGBA -------------

-- FRED -------- BRUNO ------- VD.BEEK --

--------------------- RONALDO ---------------------

With the quality we have It'd be difficult for anyone to get through all that.

 

[Van Piorsing]

Yes on Fred I read his coach at Shakhtar thought of him as an advanced midfielder rather than the DM we tend to play him as.

If Fred could play as more of an 8 he could get forward and use his excellent energy to raise our pressing game. I’m not saying that’s the way to go with Fred as our A game, just that these players can offer a lot more when we have a DM specialist. That’s the balance in selection we are missing.

Indeed. It's probably why Mourinho singed both Matić & Fred. One is defensive tower, 2nd one adding energy with storming approach but never a defensive tower.

 

[bond19821982]

A diamond will easily solve the issue. Sadly our manager is just clueless on how to play that.

City play with Grealish, KDB, Rodri, Silva in midfield. Is that balanced enough?

It's our manager who isn't good enough to get the best out of the team. Let's not blame it on "balance of the squad"

 

[bonothom]

Sack Solskjaer, Carrrick and all the inept coaching staff. Bring in a top manager and problem solved, team is balanced

 

[Red Star One]

I think that a giant difference in a skill level of our manager (probably bottom 5 of Premier League gaffers) and our players (easily top 5 and even top 3 in the Premier League) might be a reason for imbalance. I like how some suggest we sell Pogba and keep Ole. Surely the skill gap would decrease.

 

[Dante]

Pick McFred and give the back 6 some extra training on how to organise when we're facing counterattacks. DDG deserves to keep his position, but I can't help but feel our loss of cohesiveness started after we lost Henderson's physical presence in the box last season. It'd be a big call to swap them, though.

Attacking-wise, we've been doing well. Even our possession stats have been decent.

 

[Jericho]

Where's Phil Jones? It might honestly be time to give him one last shot. If he's still got his athleticism and if he's fit (I know...) he might be the best option available.

After that the options are pretty bad. I still think we should be giving VdB a chance in there beside McTominay.

 

[andersj]

I get your idea but I am not sure how you mean it - sacrificing Matic for Pogba means a three man midfield of Fred, McTom and Pogba with McTom being most defensive minded one? Or Pogba being the furthest back as a DLP?

I think, using Juve to talk about Pogba is difficult. They played with a 3-at-the-back formation didn't they? Not sure about it but Pogba was very good next to Pirlo and Vidal/Marchisio. Pirlo took the responsibility to give the team the rhythm, with passes of all ranges. Vidal and Marchisio at the top of their game were awesome players. Workhorses with a lot of quality in offensive and defensive situations. So Pogba was relieved of a bit of pressure which presumably got out the best of him. Add to that that Juve was playing with Tevez back then, another player with an abundance of workrate.

At United we have nobody to keep the team ticking (except for Pogba himself ability-wise) and, even though Fred might have the workrate of Vidal, he certainly doesn't have the quality of the Chilean. Add to that, that Bruno plays differently to Tevez and it gets clear, that the Juve-idea can't be transformed to United 1:1. I'd also add that, to me, Pogba is a player who crumbles a bit under pressure. He is a special player, who excels in pressure free situations, but when the pressure is on, it doesn't really work for as he loses the lightness. He is a senior player now, and maybe he is better with that nowadays but we just don't know.

I also don't think, that McTom would really flourish at the DM position. He doesn't feel comfortable when the whole play is happeing behind, in front and next to him. He lacks the spacial awareness I'd say.

As I said in another thread - getting more bodies in the central areas is the first thing the manager HAS to do. Should have done it one or two years ago. But I don't think Pogba is the way to go. I see Pogba as an option in games that suit him coming from the left. Obviously not as a winger but starting there to drift in. He is a nightmare to create a team around and looking at his contract situation, I would do anything, to keep him out of future plans right now.

Agree with almost every word, but probably not the conclusion and the bit about Pogba struggeling under pressure. I think he struggle under pressure when he dont get to play to his strenght. I mean, he was so good in that second half against Italy in the NL-final just recently.

The Juve-thing was lazy of me. Did not mean it like that. Was more about what area of the pitch I would want him. So no, I would not want him as a DLP. Rather an attacking «eight» (dont know the best word for it in english). More similar to Lampard in his prime.

I also agree that McT would not really be ideal as a DM, and if that did not work, I would probably prefer to see Man Utd with three CBs.

 

[Jackal981]

Saw a lot of Ten Hag videos recently. If he is our manager he will probably lineup with VdB and Pogba as our mid like in his Ajax setup (Alvarez and Gravenberch). But we definitely need an attacking RB to relieve our midfied pressure

 

[devilish]

Play 4-3-3. With Matic, McT/Fred and Bruno in midfield backed by Rashford, Jadon and Ronaldo. If its not enough then replace Ronaldo with Bruno (false 9) and play Pogba.

 

[Highfather_24]

Play 4-3-3. With Matic, McT/Fred and Bruno in midfield backed by Rashford, Jadon and Ronaldo. If its not enough then replace Ronaldo with Bruno (false 9) and play Pogba.

This. Even a 4-2-3-1 works, Bruno just needs to play a bit deeper during build up like he used to play for Sporting.

 

[One Night Only]

Shaw and Maguire's head on one side of the scales, the rest of the lads on the other. Perfect balance.

 

[Gonçalo Motta]

It's probably nearly impossible to balance a team with Ronaldo in it, for tough prem games. That is what makes it such a terrible signing. Best bet is to drop Bruno maybe and play matic deeper

Can't believe that people are still trying to push the narrative that you can't balance the squad with Ronaldo on the team, specially when he is playing as a FW.

Right, he barely tracks back but he rarely ever did and his RM side and his old Manchester side seemed pretty balanced to me. And back then he played a role that usually was required to track back.

He or anyone else could track back as much as they wanted and the squad would still be unbalanced because the real issue is in the midfield.

We have no real defensive options there. We have no DM, Pogba is inconsistent af and defensive wise doesn't provide that much, Fred atp is at best decent and he would be warming the bench at any of the top sides, Matic is old and Im not even sure what is the problem with VdB since I barely ever seen him play with our shirt.

Getting a proper DM like Palhinha / Rice would fix the last core problem in the team but we still have players there that aren't first team material or aren't consistent enough for us to win the league.

 

[Tyrion]

De Gea
AWB Varane Maguire Shaw
Fred Mctominay Pogba
Bruno
Ronaldo Cavani​

I'd replace McFred with an actual passing midfielder and an actual defending midfielder in the Jorginho/Kante mold and I'd rather have one winger than both of Ronaldo and Cavani.

If I was building a team, I'm not sure I'd have a player who presses as little as Ronaldo tbh.

 

[Carolina Red]

We need to play 443.

Cheeky. I like it.

 

[MrSingh2002]

That’s certainly one way of balancing the team, just play a 12th man.

Haha you know what I meant!

 

[RedRonaldo]

I'd replace McFred with an actual passing midfielder and an actual defending midfielder in the Jorginho/Kante mold and I'd rather have one winger than both of Ronaldo and Cavani.

If I was building a team, I'm not sure I'd have a player who presses as little as Ronaldo tbh.

Then your team will never have players like peak Messi or Ronaldo.