Sack Carrick
Sack McKenna
Sack Ole
Hire Ronaldo as Player Manager
Sack McKenna
Sack Ole
Hire Ronaldo as Player Manager
How do we solve our midfield problem?
- Thread starter HailtotheKing
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
By starting another thread in redcafe.
Ndidi and Frenkie De Jong.
Pogba and Bruno isn’t working in the same team from what I can see,reminds me a bit of the Gerard lampard problem the England team had in a way.
Ole needs to change it with what he has for now.
Ole needs to change it with what he has for now.
First of all we need to accept Bruno is not a midfielder. What means whenever he plays, we basically have two man midfield. Him and Ronaldo on the pitch make us top heavy.
That leads to an obvious conclusion that we can't play those two with Pogba at the same time. We need an industrial, balanced midfield.
It seems to me we did change our approach this season, with one midfielder dropping deeper than the other, what is a terrible idea if that DM is Fred. Last season we used McFred as a proper double pivot, now it seems like the idea is to have DM + B2B.
So, if we're playing Bruno-Ronaldo up front, ditch the DM experiment and play double pivot. Options for that are: McTominay - Fred, McTominay - van de Beek.
If Ole has the balls to drop Bruno for some games, we could have a nice 3 man midfield where we have some options as well:
Some people will lose their shit reading this post, as we're sacrificing an attacker for a midfielder, but if we've not learned by now playing higher number of attackers in midfield does not make us a better team, we never will.
In terms of individuals, I was impressed with van de Beek performance vs West Ham, and I don't understand why he's being kept out of the first team in current situation. I don't even suggest he should be starting, but we've had some easy games where we could give him a run for the last 30', but that doesn't seem to be the idea. I also think McTominay is decent at basics but doesn't like to be involved much, and Fred is very poor on the ball but is still useful as a squad player. Matic I rate very high, he could still play a role if used correctly in midfield instead of making a 3rd CB out of him, and Pogba in midfield I don't rate at all. But he can do a job against teams that sit deep and don't press, so maybe we'll play 5,6 games like that a season now that we're out of EFL.
Saying all this, I expect us to start something like Fred at DM with Pogba in midfield against Everton tomorrow.
That leads to an obvious conclusion that we can't play those two with Pogba at the same time. We need an industrial, balanced midfield.
It seems to me we did change our approach this season, with one midfielder dropping deeper than the other, what is a terrible idea if that DM is Fred. Last season we used McFred as a proper double pivot, now it seems like the idea is to have DM + B2B.
So, if we're playing Bruno-Ronaldo up front, ditch the DM experiment and play double pivot. Options for that are: McTominay - Fred, McTominay - van de Beek.
If Ole has the balls to drop Bruno for some games, we could have a nice 3 man midfield where we have some options as well:
Matic
van de Beek / McTominay - Pogba / Fred
van de Beek / McTominay - Pogba / Fred
Some people will lose their shit reading this post, as we're sacrificing an attacker for a midfielder, but if we've not learned by now playing higher number of attackers in midfield does not make us a better team, we never will.
In terms of individuals, I was impressed with van de Beek performance vs West Ham, and I don't understand why he's being kept out of the first team in current situation. I don't even suggest he should be starting, but we've had some easy games where we could give him a run for the last 30', but that doesn't seem to be the idea. I also think McTominay is decent at basics but doesn't like to be involved much, and Fred is very poor on the ball but is still useful as a squad player. Matic I rate very high, he could still play a role if used correctly in midfield instead of making a 3rd CB out of him, and Pogba in midfield I don't rate at all. But he can do a job against teams that sit deep and don't press, so maybe we'll play 5,6 games like that a season now that we're out of EFL.
Saying all this, I expect us to start something like Fred at DM with Pogba in midfield against Everton tomorrow.
I like the sound of this
Short term solution would be to make Bruno play a bit deeper.
Part of the reason we had issues down our right hand side the other night was because Dalot & McTominay were being outnumbered, if Bruno was to fill in the massive gap that was always between Dalot & McTominay I think we would’ve been okay. On the other side believe it or not Pogba was actually getting back into position to help Telles & Scott out.
I’ve also noticed that when we lose the ball high up the pitch our wide players don’t squeeze together so there is absolutely acres of space for the opposition to play through our press. It’s too easy for the opposition to get at our midfield.
And whilst I think he should’ve been given more of a chance, from what i’ve seen of him so far Donny isn’t going to improve our midfield, the guys honking off the ball & ineffective on it.
Part of the reason we had issues down our right hand side the other night was because Dalot & McTominay were being outnumbered, if Bruno was to fill in the massive gap that was always between Dalot & McTominay I think we would’ve been okay. On the other side believe it or not Pogba was actually getting back into position to help Telles & Scott out.
I’ve also noticed that when we lose the ball high up the pitch our wide players don’t squeeze together so there is absolutely acres of space for the opposition to play through our press. It’s too easy for the opposition to get at our midfield.
And whilst I think he should’ve been given more of a chance, from what i’ve seen of him so far Donny isn’t going to improve our midfield, the guys honking off the ball & ineffective on it.
It's a bit of both problem. Ole evidently needs to improve on his coaching big time but this is a Pogba problem as well, one he needs to fix to become an even better world class player. But as a matter of fact I'd like to see Ole play a midfield three of Bruno, McTominay and Van de Beek for a few games, just to see how this would fare. In this scenario obviously McTominay will sit back and Van de Beek will be doing the cute little and not so little transitional passes from defence to attack, maximising our full attacking potential.
A clear system in midfield, instead of the chaos we often see lately despite playing a double pivot, will help Sancho settle in better to the team as a massive added bonus.
DvB-Fred until we buy Rice and Tielemans this summer. But it’s a moot point really. If McTominay’s performance against Villa warranted another start in the eyes of OGS and his coaching staff then we must accept that we are talking about an issue the coaches and the manager don’t see as an issue.
Prayer
Play mcfred until Christmas and bring in a player who can use the ball from deep to replace fred. Get to summer and bring in a player that can cover huge ground to replace mctominay. We need a functional midfield two since we play four up front and Shaw bombs on too. But we need them to be better on the ball than current functional midfield.
Shame we don't have young matic who was a great combo, great defender but could also use the ball
Shame we don't have young matic who was a great combo, great defender but could also use the ball
I definitely think we should use Matic and possibly even Donny more.
Play Fred and McTominay but drop one of Pogba or Bruno it’s the only way unfortunately…
That's probably the worst thing we could do. Pogba doesn't do the defensive work you want, we don't have a DM and we also lose much of Bruno's output.
We continue with McFred. It's the only option imo.
We had many similar discussions with Pereira, Mata, Lingard as our CAM options couple years ago. We haven't since we bought Bruno.
Imo it's as simple as that.
Imo it's as simple as that.
Finally, a thread to discuss the midfield in.
Call it what you will- wingback, wide midfielder, defensive winger etc etc etc.
I'm not suggesting that they sit in tight in front of a back 3 for 90 mins supporting the attack when possible; moreso that they would form a solid 5 in the middle that can control the ball effectively and learn when/how to transition to attack.
Our best football over the last 20-30yrs always involved making use of the pitch by knowing when to stretch teams and when to keep it tight, especially at OT. I don't know about others, but on Wednesday night Vs Villarreal it was the away team that exploited that.
Our backline was far too deep, too detached from any midfield offering.
We prioritise running over passing in midfield, that's where the problems lie.
Show me another top team in Europe that has runners over passers?
It's done the job of helping us steady the ship, but to progress we need to actually look after the ball properly.
I'm saying DVB is the complete answer, but he's more the profile of player we should actually be looking at.
I actually laugh thinking what would have happened if we did sign Thiago? he'd have been the 1 alone midfielder in a 4-1-5 formation
Show me another top team in Europe that has runners over passers?
It's done the job of helping us steady the ship, but to progress we need to actually look after the ball properly.
I'm saying DVB is the complete answer, but he's more the profile of player we should actually be looking at.
I actually laugh thinking what would have happened if we did sign Thiago? he'd have been the 1 alone midfielder in a 4-1-5 formation
how have Real recent signings been? they also signed Odegaard. Donny becomes better week by week as he doesn't play. in a few months he'll be Lothar Mattheus
What crisis? AS ole said in his press conference, Freddie and Scottie offer passion desire and energy, we have everything we need. Did you not see super sub Fred with that amazing cross in the 95th min? Mctominay ran the show all game too with his passion and desire.
On a serious note, Ole and the staff are clueless. I have no faith in them at all. They just want a midfielder to run around like a donkey for 90 minutes, what is worse, we have two put of 11 players doing that. That's two less players to move the ball up pitch quickly looking to create and find space. I have accepted, as long as these doughnuts are around, we will never see anything else but McFred. We didn't even prioritise a midfielder in the summer, Ole apparently was happy with what he had. We have Hannibal in the youth, probably needs to get a few games under his belt, most likely is better than McFred already but he wont play. I think Hannibal vs Harvey Elliott, what is the difference? Elliot is a year younger, had a year on loan and before that a few cameo appearances. Hannibal has had 1 game for us and 3 games for Tunisa. Klopp shows faith, Ole show none.
Nothing will be solved as long as Ole is here, he saved himself a job for another month with the win. Performances are shocking and have been for a long time. Nothing will change because Ole is at the wheel.
On a serious note, Ole and the staff are clueless. I have no faith in them at all. They just want a midfielder to run around like a donkey for 90 minutes, what is worse, we have two put of 11 players doing that. That's two less players to move the ball up pitch quickly looking to create and find space. I have accepted, as long as these doughnuts are around, we will never see anything else but McFred. We didn't even prioritise a midfielder in the summer, Ole apparently was happy with what he had. We have Hannibal in the youth, probably needs to get a few games under his belt, most likely is better than McFred already but he wont play. I think Hannibal vs Harvey Elliott, what is the difference? Elliot is a year younger, had a year on loan and before that a few cameo appearances. Hannibal has had 1 game for us and 3 games for Tunisa. Klopp shows faith, Ole show none.
Nothing will be solved as long as Ole is here, he saved himself a job for another month with the win. Performances are shocking and have been for a long time. Nothing will change because Ole is at the wheel.
Fred or McTominay alongside a quality holding midfielder who can pass would be more than sufficient. Think Carrick/Frenkie/Alonso mold.
Riskier but potentially higher reward strategy would be to pair Pogba with a pure defensive mid like Rice, or a Kante regen.
Either way, it'd also be a massive help if our wide men also bothered to track back and stop opposing full backs having the freedom to overlap completely unmarked several times a game.
Riskier but potentially higher reward strategy would be to pair Pogba with a pure defensive mid like Rice, or a Kante regen.
Either way, it'd also be a massive help if our wide men also bothered to track back and stop opposing full backs having the freedom to overlap completely unmarked several times a game.
Stop trying to solve the unsolvable (Pogba & Bruno)
Get better midfielders
Get a better manager and/ or coaches that handle the tactical aspect
Profit?
Get a better manager and/ or coaches that handle the tactical aspect
Profit?
That would free up Shaw to play behind Ronaldo, Bruno moving to right back.
So something like this?
----------------------------Varane--Maguire--Shaw
-----------Greenwood---Bruno---DVB---Pogba---Sancho
----------------------------------Ronaldo---Cavani
That midfield balance still looks off to me, it would be essentially just swapping Wan Bissaka for Cavani. I don't think Greenwood or Sancho have enough defensive discipline for the wingback role. And Donny would end up playing CM on his own with Bruno and Pogba roaming about as they always do.
Personally I don't think this squad is at all suited to any variation of 352.
Shaw is injured yo
I think Sancho looks disciplined, greenwood I'd agree with.
Bring Rashford back into that formation and I think we look different.
Tbh the central midfield 3 is the crux of it for me.
For me its designing a system and approach, with players coming secondary. Are we a team that plays 4231, with wide forwards? If so, we need to stick with Sancho, Greenwood, Rashford etc for those positions and stop trying to shoehorn Pogba in on the left. Pogba being dropped would be better for him too, he plays better when he's got something to prove. Until we know what formation or system we're looking to play, its difficult to pick the players.
Then in CM, do we have one that sits and the no 8 and 10 are up and down? or is the 8 designed to sit deep as well?
We need to get the system defined and structured before we look at personnel imo.
Then in CM, do we have one that sits and the no 8 and 10 are up and down? or is the 8 designed to sit deep as well?
We need to get the system defined and structured before we look at personnel imo.
Great and long overdue, a discussion about the midfield. Let's start with saying how shite McFred are, Pogs can't play in a 2, Matic legs have gone, why can't Donny get a chance, we need Rice, it's about coaching and structure (and repeat).....
Yeah I think regardless of the formation none of our midfielders really compliment each other. Fernandes and Pogba are two of our best players but fitting them both into the same 3 man midfield is virtually impossible if you want it to be balanced. Yet they both start most matches, none of Donny, Fred and McTom are proper defensive Midfielders and arguably not good enough either. Which leaves us with just Matic who is too old to play every game.
I think Solskjaer has some tough decisions in the near future with regards to CM, Pogba running his contract will make one of them for him.
Some excellent points there mate.
I think that Everton midfield will fancy their chances on the break if we put Pogba in there. Also little to no pressure on the ball when they have it. I would really like to see us try Fred and Donny. Just to see. I think they could get us forward and hopefully stop Gomes/Allan/Doucouré from running the game. I do fancy us to get a good result tomorrow but then again I nearly always do…
Marcelo Brozovic on a freebie June 2022 or a small fee in January maybe. Guy is after 6 million a year wages and in his prime.
Last edited:
I think the OP is getting at what solves the midfield currently with what we have at our disposal
We obviously need a top deep lying playmaker,but our defensive and offensive organisation is not good at all.We don’t look like we are a properly coached team…
Since Bruno is more of a forward and that has resulted us to default formation of 4-2-3-1. We need to find that middle two that suits us. One needs to be DLP other can be box to box or ball winner. Fred and Mctominay can be a decent backup.
Get a better coach/ manager, as McFred, Pogba and Matic simply aren’t functional enough under Ole.
Our midfield has been a mess since Pogba came. It won't get rebuild while he is here.
I think we should play more midfielders, Fred, McT, Pogba all in the middle. Play Bruno left attacker, Ronaldo and Sancho