How Easy Is International Football?

[DrRodo]

Judging your european qualifiers along with the euros or the world cup as a whole representation of "International football" is kinda nonsense

Its the same as taking the fa cup first rounds against tier 3 and 4 teams aa the metric to say "english football is so easy"

 

[bosnian_red]

I love the big competitions, but the amount of cannon fodder fixtures that are the equivalent of United playing against non league or lower league opposition is crazy and why it's irrelevant to take performances for national teams as anything important.

 

[tomaldinho1]

The standard is just all over the place. San Marino would be like having a Vanarama team in the Prem.

 

[acnumber9]

1. If Yarmolenko has an extraordinary record, which is relative, it means better players than him have worse records. If his record was solely down to international football being so easy, then every good player should have a comparable record. Clearly, they don't so the relatively low quality of international football cannot be the reason for Yarmolenko's good record there.

2. If you took Messi and put him in the championship and he scored 1000 goals, would that mean that club football is relatively easy?

It's obviously a question of the levels.

International football, just like club football, has levels and it's easier at the lower levels.

Yes, but club football has levels that separate the weak from the strong. International football doesn’t. Which is why average players can have great records in international football.

 

[acnumber9]

Judging your european qualifiers along with the euros or the world cup as a whole representation of "International football" is kinda nonsense

Its the same as taking the fa cup first rounds against tier 3 and 4 teams aa the metric to say "english football is so easy"

The big competitions are not the norm. The qualifiers and friendlies are.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Yes, but club football has levels that separate the weak from the strong. International football doesn’t. Which is why average players can have great records in international football.

'Why is it not so easy for Messi though? Is it since he is shit or the fact international games can be hard too?

 

[FatTails]

How many threads do we need for people to express their unresolved emotional issues with Lukaku in ever more creative ways?

 

[Eendracht maakt macht]

Stekelenburg, Krul, de Roon, Veltman, van Aanholt, Berghuis, de Jong all played/play for shite bottom half teams. Ake isn't very good. Depay, Klaassen were massive flops, Donny is heading the same way. Blind was ok at best. Wijnaldum and VVD have been the only success stories in the PL from their current bunch of players.

If we assume Frenkie and De Ligt are in the Wijnaldum/VVD category then I think they could get 50-55 points. So around 10-12th place.

Current Depay would be different though. I think around place 6. With Van Dijk, De Ligt, De Jong, Wiijnaldum and Depay. It’s a pretty good core. De Jong is really really good.

 

[Salt Bailly]

Just completed it, mate.

 

[acnumber9]

'Why is it not so easy for Messi though? Is it since he is shit or the fact international games can be hard too?

Well he has 72 international goals. South America don’t have teams quite as bad as San Marion either. I never said international games can’t be hard. That would be stupid. I’m talking about as a whole.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Well he has 72 international goals. South America don’t have teams quite as bad as San Marion either. I never said international games can’t be hard. That would be stupid. I’m talking about as a whole.

Personally think it is impressive that countries like San marino even have a team at league 2 level.

 

[Wolf1992]

theres so much cannon fodder in qualification.

San Marino, Faroe Islands etc.

strikers get to pad their stats much easier at international level than at club football.

it’s high quality when good teams play against each other - but far far too many easy games.

when was as the last time England lost a qualification game?

2008 when they had Croatia in the same group.

England would have missed a couple of WCs if they were placed in a group with 2 decent teams.

 

[Bondi77]

Another one. Depay has scored more goals for Holland than Marco Van Basten.

Marco retired at 27

 

[acnumber9]

Marco retired at 27

28. It doesn’t really change the initial point. Depay is 27 so he’ll only further the gap.

 

[Bondi77]

Not as easy as the Bundesliga

 

[Bondi77]

28. It doesn’t really change the initial point. Depay is 27 so he’ll only further the gap.

What is the game ratio?

 

[acnumber9]

What is the game ratio?

24 in 58 for Van Basten and 26 in 65 for Depay.

 

[Bondi77]

24 in 58 for Van Basten and 26 in 65 for Depay.

So about the same.
I suppose we have the reverse where we have Rooney, Lampard and Gerard whom were prolific for their clubs and yet moderate at international level.

 

[Wolf1992]

International Football is inferior in quality comparing to clubs, however the quality of Club football outside of the top 5 European leagues it's piss poor.

However we have England flopping over and over again in big Tournaments, having many CL winners in their squad.And they got eliminated by icelandic players in the last Euro, btw icelandic GK was a part-time film director.

So we can say CL players got eliminated by a film director.

 

[Maluco]

I am a Northern Ireland season ticket holder and I used to watch us get drubbed at home by poor teams as a child, but I also got to see players like Matheus, Hagi, Pirlo, Beckham, Xavi, Iniesta, Ronaldo, Rooney and the list goes on and on…

I was at two qualifiers in particular, when we beat England 1-0 and when David Healy scored a hat trick as we beat a Spain team 3-2 who were just about to conquer the world. They were unforgettable moments with family and friends and I will always remember them.

I moved abroad 8-9 years ago and I really miss those games. I didn’t know how special they were until I lost them or how privileged I had been to see so many of the greats in person.

The fact is, fairytales and magical moments can happen in International football and any English fans would do well to remember that they recently lost in a major tournament to a nation with a population half the size of Leeds.

They will never forget that magic and neither should you.

 

[Dave Smith]

It is pretty Ropey. Apart from Italy, I haven't been impressed with any of the teams. The top ones are obviously good but the insistence of having more and more teams participating make it a bit of a joke. The Euros are nowhere near as good as when it wad 16 teams.

 

[sourdough satellite]

How many threads do we need for people to express their unresolved emotional issues with Lukaku in ever more creative ways?

 

[Demyanenko_square_jaw]

Well obviously it isn’t. Which is why players like Yarmolenko can have extraordinary records in International football.

the vast majority of Yarmolenko's goals are from 2017 and earlier, before injuries turned him into a sloth, it's not the West Ham player that scored all those goals. He's a player that during that era always had an ideal style and strengths for scoring regularly and being a match winner against lesser opposition, look at his consistent goalscoring in the Ukrainian league, in that sort of 6-10 ranked euro league level the 2010-2017 yarmolenko is a very dangerous player especially against the smaller teams , similar to what Hulk could do as a match-winner in portugal or Russia. I don't find it too surprising he was piling up a good international scoring record against mostly second-tier or worse teams at the same time. It's not got much to do with Club/international level differences imo, just someone that showed they were a reliable goalscorer up to a certain level.

yarmolenko should have moved to a top league no later than 2012/13 when he was at his athletic peak, he might have found a place somewhere with a good team if he had done that and eventually become a more well-rounded player. Instead he stayed in the uke league and stagnated bullying smaller teams with a Robben/early Cristiano Ronaldo wannabe style that was past its sell by date for someone of his physique and mobility by the time he did challenge himself.

Lukaku is even more of a beast for scoring against sub-top teams, though he's proven capable of doing it in top leagues too. there's always players around like this, as both club and international level have a wide variance of quality.

 

[Sky1981]

International football has become better, minnows have closed the gaps.

Before the euro kicked off I'd put a tenner on north macedonia to concede the most, but turns out it wasnt them by the looks of it.

Even teams like saudi arabia managed to get some fight in them.

I enjoy International football more than club football outside united. It's the same boring CL every year.

Not everything has to be competitive, if it's entertaining then let's just enjoy it.

 

[Gio]

1. If Yarmolenko has an extraordinary record, which is relative, it means better players than him have worse records. If his record was solely down to international football being so easy, then every good player should have a comparable record. Clearly, they don't so the relatively low quality of international football cannot be the reason for Yarmolenko's good record there.

2. If you took Messi and put him in the championship and he scored 1000 goals, would that mean that club football is relatively easy?

It's obviously a question of the levels.

International football, just like club football, has levels and it's easier at the lower levels.

Good post.

Yes, but club football has levels that separate the weak from the strong. International football doesn’t. Which is why average players can have great records in international football.

I don't put a great deal of weight in the goalscoring records of most players at international levels over the last 20 years as it bears little comparison to the tougher environment (harder / fewer games) that previous strikers faced. You can still compare impact and statistics at major tournaments, or at least the knockout stages (rather than these padded out group stages).

 

[NasirTimothy]

Qualifying is shite but the major tournaments are the highest level of competition IMO, even more than the CL.

The amount of pressure playing for your country is much higher, no two legged ties and playing in neutral venues for the most part. I mean this generations GOATs Messi and Ronaldo are yet to win a world cup. Ronaldo only has one Euros and Messi doesn't even have a Copa America. That tells me international football is extremely difficult.

Indeed, and neither Messi nor Ronaldo have managed to score a single goal in the knockout rounds of the World Cup. Not one. Two players with millions of acolytes claiming that they are each the greatest footballer of all time. Anyone who thinks it is easy needs to give their head a wobble.

 

[Raees]

It is tough because you’re playing in a team that doesn’t play together every week.

That England and France squad just to name two would smash any club side in the game in terms of talent pool. So the standard is not low across the board, it’s just you do get some shit national sides but then again you get shit sides in the FA Cup.

If international football was easier, Messi and Ronaldo would be dicking over it every year and the truth is they have had their biggest challenges in international football. The level of pressure, the passion and animosity is all heightened.

The regularity with which top teams face each other on the continent has made it easier for players to become more relaxed playing at that level - there is no such comfort zone at International level when in tournaments.

 

[Ramos]

They all play the same teams though. The players playing for UEFA teams i mean. CONMEBOL is a different story, the worst team there is much better than the worst teams in UEFA.

But Yarmolenko played against those teams at the same rate any other European attacking mid his age and with similar number of caps had to play them.

 

[weetee]

How many threads do we need for people to express their unresolved emotional issues with Lukaku in ever more creative ways?

Quality post

--

I'd argue it's probably even harder than club football.
Little time to train and prepare within the group makes any complex strategy or positional play almost impossible - which you'll need to overcome to score against well organised defences (nowadays almost the norm). The inflation of games doesn't make it easier too.
I remember the World Cups some decades ago where the goalies or defenders of "lesser" national teams would make head scratching mistakes on a regular basis - that's not the case anymore.

Seriously though I'd say it's hardly comparable to club football.

 

[Deery]

I think players generally try a lot harder for their country than they do for their clubs especially at big tournaments it’s not unusual to see players exhausted around the 60 minute mark in these matches.

 

[Patchbeard]

Yarmolenko is a quality player in the right setup to be fair, shame he has wasted the last few years at Dortmund and West Ham. He is a bit of a luxury player, so arguably he doesn't really fit in with Dortmund high press or West Ham's style, so poor transfer planning/career choices by both parties really. If he had gone to a team that gives him more free role then I think he could've had an Ilicic esque influence on a big league in the last few years, rather than just warming the bench.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Probably easier in qualifiers and group stage matches but less so towards the end when only the big bad teams remain.

Personally I think the split between crap and good players is what makes it more fun. Nobody takes enjoyment from watching Yarmolenko at West Ham but him scoring a 30 yard goal for Ukraine is a delightful thing.

I've gotten into baseball lately and like it for similar reasons. Not everybody is unbelievably good and there's enjoyment to be had watching the team players do well.

 

[MonsterRavingLoony]

How many threads do we need for people to express their unresolved emotional issues with Lukaku in ever more creative ways?

Unpopular as it sounds, I'm personally genuinely pleased to see people go on and rediscover themselves, good for him.
And I mean.. it is a pretty big list when it comes to those who flaked out, moved on and made it. Sometimes it doesn't work out. Its OK to be disappointed.

 

[Hammondo]

It is at a much lower level than club football. Only a handful of team are decent.

 

[Bigbusdutz]

Club football is like playing a game on cheat mode. You can purchase the best players on the world and form a team. Great for fans of them clubs but International football brings a nation together

What I love about International football is feels more real and you are only as good as the players you have. Take Croatia for example they have been to as many World Cup finals as the big old England but currently the next Generation of players aren’t naturally as good which will happen with smaller populations.

I’m not sure about other larger nations but I always find the English press and public arrogance about International qualifiers quite arrogant. Why should the mighty England play little old Georgia.

 

[NasirTimothy]

How many threads do we need for people to express their unresolved emotional issues with Lukaku in ever more creative ways?

And so the truth is unveiled

 

[balaks]

International football is easy for the 'big nations' - I can assure you as a supporter of a small nation it is extremely difficult.

 

[Ish]

Surely the standards in the UCL, as an example, is as lopsided as international football?

 

[acnumber9]

That England and France squad just to name two would smash any club side in the game in terms of talent pool.

England? Really? Look at the defence and midfield England had out yesterday.

 

[Dante]

Another question:

How many international teams would be good enough to get into the top 4 of the Premier League?

I think only France, Portugal and England have the requisite quality at the moment.