How far are you prepared to see United fall?

[fastwalker]

In theory, in order to rebuild you must first destroy. This is part of the problem isn't it? At United we think that we have already reached the bottom and we are gradually trying to claw our way back up again. But what happens if the United rebuild actually starts, not with the bricklayer, but with the wrecking ball an what happens if the wrecking phase has only just begun.

The statistics simply do not lie: 27 leagues games played under Ole; 14 wins; six draws; seven defeats. A total of 48 out of a possible 81 points. But out of the last 10 games United have won 2; drawn 4 and lost 4. A total of 10 out of a possible 30 points (in other words relegation form). In the first six games of the 2017/18 season United had 10 points, whilst in the first six games of the 2019/20 season United has 8 points.

If results mean anything, this phase of the rebuild can only be characterised as one step forward and two steps back.

That said, there is nothing whatsoever to say that this is as far as United could fall. The hope is that might make top four, but what happens if we don't even make top six? What happens if United spends years outside the top four?

How far are you prepared to see United fall in the name of the 'rebuild'?

 

[charlenefan]

How far am I prepared until I do what?

 

[Adisa]

What do you want us to do?

 

[Adcuth]

Is it our fault now?

 

[Nou_Camp99]

I'd take us finishing 17th if it meant the parasites fecked off and sold us to someone who actually wants to see us winning again.

 

[Cockney Phil]

I don’t think we can avoid what’s coming.

We went into the old second under Tommy Doc fighting - on and off the pitch - in the end we ran out of time.

We forget how much Fergie was hated until the Mark Robbins goal - Fergie was living on fumes.

Moyes, LVG and Maureen were awful but we won stuff that took our eyes off the ball. Their real legacy has taken time to emerge but we can see it now.

Barebones we have the makings of a decent side. We need three top players and a few more for padding.

But, it’s race against the clock - improving squad set against forthcoming games. I fear we will lose Ole because he will run out of time.

 

[reddevil702]

Why is it that rebuilding and success are now mutually exclusive? This wasn't the case under any other manager but Ole. Jose managed to do it, feck even LVG did it but now we're considering the possibility off falling out of the top 6? What guarantee do we have that Ole will turn this around? His history and track record say otherwise. Look at teams like Bayern and Real Madrid, both are going through a rebuild. Are they giving up on the league and CL qualifications? Real Madrid are more likely to sack Zidane if current results continue, a manager who has won 3 CL titles for them, than stand by and accept bad results. Yet United are suppose to give Ole 2 - 3 years? FFS

 

[TsuWave]

i'm confused about the premise of this thread. you think that we have to be relegated before we start rebuilding properly or something?

 

[buckooo1978]

we might take another step or two back....

if our transfer policy stays the same,
if we don't hire a decent Director of football,
if Woodward doesn't pass responsibility for running the football side of things to someone who knows what they are doing
if Pogba leaves and we don't replace
if the Glazers continue to spend 70m net

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

League two

 

[AlwaysRed66]

The manager seems to have a good philosophy of getting rid of deadwood, & bringing good players in so far. His problem is he has no real philosophy anymore except sitting back & attacking on the break with a slow ponderous team. His tactical awareness is pretty poor, & cannot see him succeeding. At least Lampard has a good philosophy, even though he is struggling at the moment, but is backed by the fans as they see a plan for the future, unlike us.

 

[redshaw]

It's more how bad does it have to be before the owners do something. I'm guessing bottom half, losing money and the brand taking a large hit.

Right now they keep doing the same thing and expecting different results.

We might as a club just hope we find a Busby or Fergie and that could be decades. As a fan I'll support United down to the lowest point possible.

 

[Red_toad]

League two

Yeah then we can start a new rebuild and revisit the exact same bizarre thread.

 

[fastwalker]

i'm confused about the premise of this thread. you think that we have to be relegated before we start rebuilding properly or something?

No, not at all. Essentially, it is as described. As fan how far are you willing to see United fall before United results turn, the team is winning again consistently and United is once again competitive. What are you prepared to tolerate, before things get better?

 

[Andycoleno9]

Is it our fault now?

 

[TMDaines]

It's a complete fallacy to think United need to continue to get worse in order for them to find the ability to compete once again. We're just offering excuses to the players, the manager, the board and even ourselves. I don't tolerate any sense of mediocrity in search of a longer term gain. We're going nowhere, absolutely nowhere right now. Our results continuing to deteriorate and our performances getting worse just put us further away, not closer. Want to win the title again, start by appointing a manager who has the vision, leadership and modernity to build a side and who wants to be here for the long haul. None of our last four appointments have had that. Ole wants to be here and that's about all he's got.

You can rant at the Glazers all you want, but we've still invested enough to be competitive at the top of Europe. We've not got close to doing that because we have fecked it all up. Fans of other clubs must look at us lamenting our spend and just laugh. Yeah, we could have spent a whole lot more, but there's not a shred of evidence to suggest that we would have known how best to invest that.

 

[Tyrion]

Is it our fault now?

People keep talking like it is. As if the fans let it happen somehow. I never realised we had this much power.

 

[SaintMuppet]

The club will fall as far as it falls. Us fans don’t have a choice as to how far we are prepared to let it fall because we have no control or say in any of this.

Reality is the sh1t.

 

[Bwuk]

It's a complete fallacy to think United need to continue to get worse in order for them to find the ability to compete once again. We're just offering excuses to the players, the manager, the board and even ourselves. I don't tolerate any sense of mediocrity in search of a longer term gain. We're going nowhere, absolutely nowhere right now. Our results continuing to deteriorate and our performances getting worse just put us further away, not closer. Want to win the title again, start by appointing a manager who has the vision, leadership and modernity to build a side and who wants to be here for the long haul. None of our last four appointments have had that. Ole wants to be here and that's about all he's got.

You can rant at the Glazers all you want, but we've still invested enough to be competitive at the top of Europe. We've not got close to doing that because we have fecked it all up. Fans of other clubs must look at us lamenting our spend and just laugh. Yeah, we could have spent a whole lot more, but there's not a shred of evidence to suggest that we would have known how best to invest that.

Great post. We are a joke.

 

[MartinRed]

i'm confused about the premise of this thread. you think that we have to be relegated before we start rebuilding properly or something?

It happened before.

 

[eire-red]

It's a complete fallacy to think United need to continue to get worse in order for them to find the ability to compete once again. We're just offering excuses to the players, the manager, the board and even ourselves. I don't tolerate any sense of mediocrity in search of a longer term gain. We're going nowhere, absolutely nowhere right now. Our results continuing to deteriorate and our performances getting worse just put us further away, not closer. Want to win the title again, start by appointing a manager who has the vision, leadership and modernity to build a side and who wants to be here for the long haul. None of our last four appointments have had that. Ole wants to be here and that's about all he's got.

You can rant at the Glazers all you want, but we've still invested enough to be competitive at the top of Europe. We've not got close to doing that because we have fecked it all up. Fans of other clubs must look at us lamenting our spend and just laugh. Yeah, we could have spent a whole lot more, but there's not a shred of evidence to suggest that we would have known how best to invest that.

You're right. We have the means, resources and still have that elusive pull for certain players who dream of playing at Old Trafford. The problem, as you alluded to, is that it seems like we could spend 500m next summer but not one of us has confidence that money would be spent on the right players, and in the glaringly obvious positions we've needed to strengthen for the past 4/5 years.

It's only this summer that you can point to the fact that we've lost Lukaku, Herrera, Fellaini, Smalling and Sanchez. The previous 5 summers before that we have tossed away money left, right and centre on absolute dross, which has meant that we have literally no strength in depth to even replace the average players mentioned above.

The club needs a cleanse, from top to bottom. The problem is, I don't think anyone even knows where to begin. 6 years in the wilderness, and it could be 6 more if the right decisions aren't made in the coming months. Ole can't use a 'long term vision' to save his job in the short term. Only results should give him the time to prove he can do it here for 10 years, and not just the first 10 weeks of his reign.

 

[freeurmind]

Most of the core fanbase won't care if we finish in the bottom half, they won't criticize Ole. The pressure from the media, internally from the players and banter from fans of other clubs will be on another level though. If we do finish outside the top 6 this season, Pogba is gone and I wouldnt be surprised to see Martial and Lingard wanting out too.

Personally I'm not buying this rebuild nonsense. It's just more snakeoil from Ed. We will only truly begin to improve again once the cub is sold or by some miracle the culture changes from the ownership neither of which I see happening anytime soon.

 

[TsuWave]

It happened before.

this is so dumb. the notion of having to be relegated to rebuild. the ludicrous idea that the game is the same now as it was then. everything about this is so dumb.

 

[adexkola]

What do you want us to do?

Yeah like, what the feck? What am I literally supposed to do once a certain threshold is reached?

 

[Ban]

Most of the core fanbase won't care if we finish in the bottom half, they won't criticize Ole. The pressure from the media, internally from the players and banter from fans of other clubs will be on another level though. If we do finish outside the top 6 this season, Pogba is gone and I wouldnt be surprised to see Martial and Lingard wanting out too.

Personally I'm not buying this rebuild nonsense. It's just more snakeoil from Ed. We will only truly begin to improve again once the cub is sold or by some miracle the culture changes from the ownership neither of which I see happening anytime soon.

Lingard wanting out? He's living the live which he can't live anywhere else.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

All the way unfortunately.

 

[Ban]

We will be worse and worse as long as we have Glazers as owners.

 

[SirAF]

To the dephts of Mordor?

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Worse than AC milan levels

 

[Di Maria's angel]

It's a complete fallacy to think United need to continue to get worse in order for them to find the ability to compete once again. We're just offering excuses to the players, the manager, the board and even ourselves. I don't tolerate any sense of mediocrity in search of a longer term gain. We're going nowhere, absolutely nowhere right now. Our results continuing to deteriorate and our performances getting worse just put us further away, not closer. Want to win the title again, start by appointing a manager who has the vision, leadership and modernity to build a side and who wants to be here for the long haul. None of our last four appointments have had that. Ole wants to be here and that's about all he's got.

You can rant at the Glazers all you want, but we've still invested enough to be competitive at the top of Europe. We've not got close to doing that because we have fecked it all up. Fans of other clubs must look at us lamenting our spend and just laugh. Yeah, we could have spent a whole lot more, but there's not a shred of evidence to suggest that we would have known how best to invest that.

This is very true. Mourinho and his team somehow managed to pull a 2nd place finish out of their arses. You don't fluke an entire season. It's very much possible to start moving forward now if we wanted to. Unfortunately, we'd have to sack Ole if we wanted to do that.

 

[kouroux]

I have no limits. My body and my mind are ready

 

[esmufc07]

Out of the ashes rises the Phoenix. United will be reborn once again.

 

[fps]

Bit of a false question really. Fans have no say in how far the club falls or how much it succeeds.

 

[cruseofried]

No, not at all. Essentially, it is as described. As fan how far are you willing to see United fall before United results turn, the team is winning again consistently and United is once again competitive. What are you prepared to tolerate, before things get better?

Until we do what exactly, we have no say in what level we fall to or how we recover so tolerance levels are unimportant and questionable in essence. The question which you pose is rhetorical in that it may, but it is unlikely, to have an answer.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

In North American sports shit to mediocre teams 'tank' or be shit on purpose. The worse you are the better chance you have at landing a high draft pick to get the best young players.

Too bad the premier league has relagation and no draft system.

We have to buy ourselves out of this mess. Not necessarily with a crazy amount of money, but the right players that fit with a direction and identity.

 

[Sassy Colin]

How far am I prepared until I do what?

Go and support City?

 

[SuperiorXI]

Pointless question... if you are a true fan you'd support United even if we came to be non league.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

In North American sports shit to mediocre teams 'tank' or be shit on purpose. The worse you are the better chance you have at landing a high draft pick to get the best young players.

Too bad the premier league has relagation and no draft system.

We have to buy ourselves out of this mess. Not necessarily with a crazy amount of money, but the right players that fit with a direction and identity.

That seems a corrupt system though basically encouraging teams to throw in the towel?

 

[Amerifan]

No, not at all. Essentially, it is as described. As fan how far are you willing to see United fall before United results turn, the team is winning again consistently and United is once again competitive. What are you prepared to tolerate, before things get better?

As opposed to what? Ignoring football? Supporting a different team? Hanging a banner outside the grounds?

I don’t know what you’re getting at.

 

[The Firestarter]

Most of the core fanbase won't care if we finish in the bottom half, they won't criticize Ole. The pressure from the media, internally from the players and banter from fans of other clubs will be on another level though. If we do finish outside the top 6 this season, Pogba is gone and I wouldnt be surprised to see Martial and Lingard wanting out too.

Personally I'm not buying this rebuild nonsense. It's just more snakeoil from Ed. We will only truly begin to improve again once the cub is sold or by some miracle the culture changes from the ownership neither of which I see happening anytime soon.

Good god, what would we do without him...