How far are you willing to go to get the Glazers out?

alexthelion

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Who has wished the club to be relegated?
Just read any of the threads to do with Sunday, there's plenty of them.
 

Rightnr

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Just read any of the threads to do with Sunday, there's plenty of them.
You need to stop lying. People are being asked what they'd tolerate to rid us of these awful owners.

No one here wishes us to be relegated. Enough with this twisting of words.
 

alexthelion

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You need to stop lying. People are being asked what they'd tolerate to rid us of these awful owners.

No one here wishes us to be relegated. Enough with this twisting of words.
There are plenty who would accept relegation if it meant getting rid of the Glazers, no amount of you denying it will change that. There's a post not far above yours saying exacty that. It's not lying and you're pathetic for even suggesting it is.
 

DRJosh

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Continued protests at every game until change is seen. What financial value can the Glazer's extract from the club if home games are not being played/cancelled, more so when fans are allowed in again? Not much.
 

uBradPittBRO?

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I'm all for the protest and love the cause but unfortunately every group has it's bad apples. Directing abuse towards police officers and injuring three in the process, braking into the stadium and braking equipment .... I fail to see how exactly that is helping the cause. It just feels like in the midst of anger a lot of these 'supporters' just decided to take their anger out on whoever was there. I don't think those police officers had any direct relations to the Glazer family or that the cameras that were broken were even a property of united (probably owned by the tv-stations).

But let's say the Glazer family sells the club. Someone will have to come up with what, 3-4 billion pounds. What then? Well my guess would be that they would want some kind of return on their investment. Maybe some of you still remember those first years after the Glazer's bought the club and how we pretty much bought ourselves. Our debt would most likely increase substantially, draining a lot of our operating profits to service those debts. Leaving us with limited funds to improve our team. Because let's face it.... in the end we are a business and we will most likely be ran like one. Unless of course we get our own oil people but I'm not sure I like that option either.

To make a long story short... if we were to change ownerships whats to say they wont be just as bad as the Glazers? There have been owners at other clubs far worse than our lot. It's a gamble and I would be willing to throw the dice if we are guaranteed good owners that care for the future of this club. But at the same time I'm pretty scared of the thought of going through another Glazer-like takeover.

I would love for the club to be owned by the fans but in my view thats only a fantasy. It will never happen.
 

vidic blood & sand

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I'm all for the protest and love the cause but unfortunately every group has it's bad apples. Directing abuse towards police officers and injuring three in the process, braking into the stadium and braking equipment .... I fail to see how exactly that is helping the cause. It just feels like in the midst of anger a lot of these 'supporters' just decided to take their anger out on whoever was there. I don't think those police officers had any direct relations to the Glazer family or that the cameras that were broken were even a property of united (probably owned by the tv-stations).

But let's say the Glazer family sells the club. Someone will have to come up with what, 3-4 billion pounds. What then? Well my guess would be that they would want some kind of return on their investment. Maybe some of you still remember those first years after the Glazer's bought the club and how we pretty much bought ourselves. Our debt would most likely increase substantially, draining a lot of our operating profits to service those debts. Leaving us with limited funds to improve our team. Because let's face it.... in the end we are a business and we will most likely be ran like one. Unless of course we get our own oil people but I'm not sure I like that option either.

To make a long story short... if we were to change ownerships whats to say they wont be just as bad as the Glazers? There have been owners at other clubs far worse than our lot. It's a gamble and I would be willing to throw the dice if we are guaranteed good owners that care for the future of this club. But at the same time I'm pretty scared of the thought of going through another Glazer-like takeover.

I would love for the club to be owned by the fans but in my view thats only a fantasy. It will never happen.
Not necessarily. We can simply go back to a chairman as a majority shareholder, a board of directors made up of fans, and a chief exec with knowledge of the game.
Revenue can then be pumped back into the club. You're assuming that the club needs a rich owner, which isn't true. The club itself generates all the funds necessary. A super rich owner would just be a bonus.
 

diarm

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There are plenty who would accept relegation if it meant getting rid of the Glazers, no amount of you denying it will change that. There's a post not far above yours saying exacty that. It's not lying and you're pathetic for even suggesting it is.
 

Maticmaker

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I don't know how many on here can remember the last time in the early 70's we were relegated, it was for football reasons and Tommy Doc had to have that clear out, but it hurt, it really hurt our fans, especially after Busby's reign and 1968 and all that, please do not wish for those days to be back, for whatever reason.
To wish relegation on ourselves in order to oust the Glazers is ridiculous, I've never understood the concept of 'self harm' and hope I never will.

I certainly wish we had better owners than the Glazers, but we are in the 21st century, professional football is a massive business and has been ever since the PL was started, its not going backwards, not now, or in the future. Clubs with United's pulling power will always attract 'carpet-bagger' type owners, we have to live with that, there simply is no other choice and if the Glazers do go they will be followed by other similar types of owners, maybe even worse. True the Glazers have put the club in debt, but they have spent money as well, a lot of it not very wisely.
With the 'money maker (but also 'waster') in chief' now gone in Ed Woodward, may be things will get better; according to some on here they can only get better!
Better Regulation is the answer, unfortunately that does not mean more of a say for fans, because which fans are we talking about the 'ex-shareholders' in MUST, season ticket holders, fans outside the UK, etc. there is no one body that represents all views! Lets be honest 20 United fans in a room couldn't agree on a 25 man squad. We have to trust the professionals in the club and yes even the owners!

That does not mean we cannot protest about decisions, but it must be responsible protest and more importantly protest that is heard and acknowledged. Quite honestly with an estimated value being placed on the club etc at £4B I cannot see how we can expect new owners not to have an eye on the finances and yes on their own investment.
 

alexthelion

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Not necessarily. We can simply go back to a chairman as a majority shareholder, a board of directors made up of fans, and a chief exec with knowledge of the game.
Revenue can then be pumped back into the club. You're assuming that the club needs a rich owner, which isn't true. The club itself generates all the funds necessary. A super rich owner would just be a bonus.
Exactly how do we do that?
 

alexthelion

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I don't know how many on here can remember the last time in the early 70's we were relegated, it was for football reasons and Tommy Doc had to have that clear out, but it hurt, it really hurt our fans, especially after Busby's reign and 1968 and all that, please do not wish for those days to be back, for whatever reason.
To wish relegation on ourselves in order to oust the Glazers is ridiculous, I've never understood the concept of 'self harm' and hope I never will.

I certainly wish we had better owners than the Glazers, but we are in the 21st century, professional football is a massive business and has been ever since the PL was started, its not going backwards, not now, or in the future. Clubs with United's pulling power will always attract 'carpet-bagger' type owners, we have to live with that, there simply is no other choice and if the Glazers do go they will be followed by other similar types of owners, maybe even worse. True the Glazers have put the club in debt, but they have spent money as well, a lot of it not very wisely.
With the 'money maker (but also 'waster') in chief' now gone in Ed Woodward, may be things will get better; according to some on here they can only get better!
Better Regulation is the answer, unfortunately that does not mean more of a say for fans, because which fans are we talking about the 'ex-shareholders' in MUST, season ticket holders, fans outside the UK, etc. there is no one body that represents all views! Lets be honest 20 United fans in a room couldn't agree on a 25 man squad. We have to trust the professionals in the club and yes even the owners!

That does not mean we cannot protest about decisions, but it must be responsible protest and more importantly protest that is heard and acknowledged. Quite honestly with an estimated value being placed on the club etc at £4B I cannot see how we can expect new owners not to have an eye on the finances and yes on their own investment.
This. Well said.
 

Matthew84!

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If you're asking if I saw one of the Glazers walking past me would I slap him then yes, yes i would,
Otherwise just keep protesting.
 

Tacitus56AD

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So here is the drill:

One of you has to sacrifice himself for this, but....

Bill Gates is divorcing his wife. She can buy the club many times over soon. Find the hottest United supporter and make it happen.
 

::sonny::

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On a mission in tampa outside his house
 

Pickle85

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Do either Joel or Avram have a handbag? If so, I've one suggestion that's so crazy it just might work...
 

Seto007

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Are people willing to put their lives on the line? I doubt it.
 

Sky1981

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At the end of the day, I don't want to see the team become collateral damage in this battle where points deductions could be real. As much as people want to believe these footballers deeply care about the club, most of them will not and cannot speak about club ownership.

They are getting handsomely paid, they get a lot of support from the club, and know how special it is to player for such a massive club.

Ole and Marcus and probably Mason are United supporters. While they do understand the frustrations of the supporters, they are footballers first who are paid by said owners. Everything else comes second until it doesn't.

Will Ole resign as manager...will Marcus boycott and hold out playing because he believes the owners are a complete drag on the club? Those are severe scenarios where the owners will then take notice. That's the level of action that should be taken if everyone involved is taking this seriously.
What should they speak out about?

1. Owner taking dividend? It's their club It's their money.
2. We dont win trophies?
3. We dont show ambition? Do they show enough drive and ambition?

What you're asking is unrealistic. The players wont take part and rightly so. I can understand why they stay silent
 

sglowrider

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What should they speak out about?

1. Owner taking dividend? It's their club It's their money.
2. We dont win trophies?
3. We dont show ambition? Do they show enough drive and ambition?

What you're asking is unrealistic. The players wont take part and rightly so. I can understand why they stay silent
Or you could ask, how many here would quit their jobs to fight the cause no matter what?
 

Tallis

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Investors.
The Glazers acquired stock until they became majority shareholders. We don't necessarily need one person to come along and buy the lot in one go.
This selling of stock is what the red knights have proposed.
Investors would require a return on their investment. They would need 2-3 bn to buy out the Glazers and their investment committees would require that the investments produce a 12-25 percent return (depending on type of investor). In order to produce this return, they would need to be comfortable that the board and management are running the business to maximise profits and value.

I am not sure the investor would committ this capital and then hand over the keys to the fan led board.
 

sglowrider

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Investors would require a return on their investment. They would need 2-3 bn to buy out the Glazers and their investment committees would require that the investments produce a 12-25 percent return (depending on type of investor). In order to produce this return, they would need to be comfortable that the board and management are running the business to maximise profits and value.

I am not sure the investor would committ this capital and then hand over the keys to the fan led board.
On to the Saudi investor/whitewashing thread then!
 

Sky1981

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Or you could ask, how many here would quit their jobs to fight the cause no matter what?
What cause?

I hate to say this but most companies are profit oriented. From obscuring content on food product up to serving borderline hazardous substance labeled as food, micro transaction,.p2w, false advertisements etc.

If we go down that route most of us would be left with no job.

Like seriously. Taking 20m dividend on an asset worth 4bn they legally own is not something i want to protest if it's up to me.
 

sglowrider

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Like seriously. Taking 20m dividend on an asset worth 4bn they legally own is not something i want to protest if it's up to me.

Agree. My big gripe isn't about the ownership. Its about who fecking allowed the LBO to start with.
 

Exiust

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Like seriously. Taking 20m dividend on an asset worth 4bn they legally own is not something i want to protest if it's up to me.
Pretty much, my guess is that for PR reasons they will forgo or reduce dividends for a couple years and sell some shares which will give them more money anyway. Ultimately what they now take out of the club is peanuts in a financial sense. They might even reduce the debt (even if it makes no financial sense), but it's a nice PR move given the amount of people who believe united has a massive debt and that debt is holding back spending or investment.
My guess is selling shares every couple of years is what they were planning to do anyway, the chance that they would find one buyer to take over the club is difficult... we are too big to give new buyers a good return on investment.

The biggest problem was the LBO years ago and especially the first years after the purchase, since a lot of money was used to take care of the debt, but that isn't the case anymore. If someone buys the club now, we are guaranteed to be much worse off since they would like to have a return on investment too, we would basically be in the same situation as the first years with the Glazers. Or someone has to find a fan willing to waste a couple billion like, apparently, Arsenal.