How far off is this squad from a title challenge?

0le

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A defensive midfielder and a pacey defender to cover for Bailly.
 

Wolverine

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We are good, just need to be a lot less sloppy and iron out a couple of things but the desire, mentality and belief you can see there
 

Cathy Ferguson

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We are good enough to win it, we just need Greenwood and Martial to step up a bit, ditch EL, and avoid injuries. City will miss de Bruyne a lot.
 

galwayfa

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Remember lads, it was only a few weeks ago that awb passed the ball 3 yards to Bruno who lying on the ground "injured" we are still not fully street smart yet, hope I'm wrong
 

Bilbo

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Its starting to feel a lot to me like this is that season before the one where we are a brilliant team.

We are currently (to quote the athletic) 'good', and its obvious that we have been progressing nicely over the last year or so, but it feels like that is accelerating now and a trophy this season would remove a lot of those lingering doubts we can sense the team have at certain key moments.
 

OLLY ORANGE

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Right back, hold midfielder, right wing and a centre back.
The way we do transfer buisness under Ed at least two windows away.
 

Berbasbullet

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We’ve been in very good for for around 12 months now (on and off), so it’s not an anomaly how well were playing. I still think we will fade away but absolutely loving this season right now and just enjoying it each week.
 

The Purley King

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Right back, hold midfielder, right wing and a centre back.
The way we do transfer buisness under Ed at least two windows away.
Haaland in the summer, pogba stays and I think I we win the league next year.
We could do it this year but despite the injury to kdb we’ll be 5-6 points short to city I think.
 

JMack1234

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We're getting better and better.

Personally I don't you're winning the league with Lindelof or an injury prone Bailly next to Maguire so we need to another CB. Not some £70 million next best thing centre-back. Just a good, pacey, reliable centre-back to partner Maguire.

I think we need a really good quality defensive midfielder and maybe a good attacking player to go into the squad so you're not a couple of injuries away from having to play Dan James or Juan Mata.
 

Crashoutcassius

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We have a lot to do in summer. Sign a Maguire partner, a pogba replacement probably, competition at right back, and we can improve CF and RW very easily
 

roonster09

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I feel the football would improve. I’m not sold on this coaching it’s not much different to Jose’s style of football. Happy to win a title not happy for it to be a long term style. I don’t feel better players improve the style.
It's very different from Jose's football. Jose berated players for trying to pass the ball from defense. Yesterday we passed the ball so many times from defense building the attacks.
 

JakeC

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Its starting to feel a lot to me like this is that season before the one where we are a brilliant team.

We are currently (to quote the athletic) 'good', and its obvious that we have been progressing nicely over the last year or so, but it feels like that is accelerating now and a trophy this season would remove a lot of those lingering doubts we can sense the team have at certain key moments.
Almost always agree with you Bilbo, pity you don't post more!
 

Tarrou

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we're suddenly quite a bit ahead of Liverpool in the betting now, never would've thought that was possible this season

Citey 2/5
United 11/2
Liverpool 8/1
 

Shimo

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There is no semi-final for the title, so at least there isn't that roadblock. Think we are close, Martial, Greenwood, Rashford find any kind of consistency in scoring, we should be right up there as favorites.
 

Theonas

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There is no "title challenge" level. It all depends on how good the competition is. The level you need to be goo at to compete for the title in 2014 or 2015 is completely different to the level needed in 2018 or 2019. So far, it looks like we are already good enough to challenge for this current title.
 

bosnian_red

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Its starting to feel a lot to me like this is that season before the one where we are a brilliant team.

We are currently (to quote the athletic) 'good', and its obvious that we have been progressing nicely over the last year or so, but it feels like that is accelerating now and a trophy this season would remove a lot of those lingering doubts we can sense the team have at certain key moments.
Yup. I think the title will be too far for us this season, and I said as much in the summer. But we've taken a huge stride forward and a trophy would be huge for mentality. Sign a right winger like Sancho and it'd give us another dimension IMO and out us over the edge where we can do it, along with the mentality boost of a trophy. If we can keep Pogba as well, would be huge.
 

Mainoldo

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It's very different from Jose's football. Jose berated players for trying to pass the ball from defense. Yesterday we passed the ball so many times from defense building the attacks.
It’s still the same principles of defensive shape over ball possession. We don’t play with the intention of looking after the ball.
 

Josh 76

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There is no "title challenge" level. It all depends on how good the competition is. The level you need to be goo at to compete for the title in 2014 or 2015 is completely different to the level needed in 2018 or 2019. So far, it looks like we are already good enough to challenge for this current title.
Good point
 

Josh 76

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we're suddenly quite a bit ahead of Liverpool in the betting now, never would've thought that was possible this season

Citey 2/5
United 11/2
Liverpool 8/1
feckin hell. Liverpool 8/1.
That's crazy. Can't be right?
 

roonster09

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It’s still the same principles of defensive shape over ball possession. We don’t play with the intention of looking after the ball.
Looking after the ball is not the only way to play attacking football. Jose's football was play defensive and hoof the ball to Lukaku, Ole plays defensive game but plays quick transition on the ground to build the attack. Rashford doesn't even drop deep to help defensive game, he is the outlet for quick transition. Under Jose, both Rashford and Martial were marking opponent FBs all game.
 

Alemar

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There is no "title challenge" level. It all depends on how good the competition is. The level you need to be goo at to compete for the title in 2014 or 2015 is completely different to the level needed in 2018 or 2019. So far, it looks like we are already good enough to challenge for this current title.
This is true. We are definitely good enough to score at least 40 more points in the second half of the season, probably up to 45. Whether it is enough for the title is yet to be seen
 

Yakuza_devils

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Too many false dawn in the last 8 years since SAF retired. Still not sure what to make of this. But it surely feel we improved a lot this season.

But there are still too many games where we played badly and was lucky to win.

I still think we are short of 1 or 2 world class player to really be a great team.
 

Mainoldo

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Looking after the ball is not the only way to play attacking football. Jose's football was play defensive and hoof the ball to Lukaku, Ole plays defensive game but plays quick transition on the ground to build the attack. Rashford doesn't even drop deep to help defensive game, he is the outlet for quick transition. Under Jose, both Rashford and Martial were marking opponent FBs all game.
It’s not but having two defensive shields to do a 1 man job means you don’t impose yourself on a game like you should. It’s all good trying to bash Jose and just say his football is defensive even though when he has the players he gets teams that score 100 goals a season. It’s the same thing, our tactics are designed to contain and punish teams with mainly moments of individual brilliance. I’m not hear to be a doom monger but it’s not a sustainable tactic.
 

roonster09

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It’s not but having two defensive shields to do a 1 man job means you don’t impose yourself on a game like you should. It’s all good trying to bash Jose and just say his football is defensive even though when he has the players he gets teams that score 100 goals a season. It’s the same thing, our tactics are designed to contain and punish teams with mainly moments of individual brilliance. I’m not hear to be a doom monger but it’s not a sustainable tactic.
Yeah Pogba and McT means 2 defensive shields. Was McT defensive shield vs Leeds too when he scored 2 goals and could have had hattrick?

THat's the problem with these discussions, people just assume playing player xyz means it's defensive, playing 3 at the back means it's defensive.

Jose's Madrid was exciting team, if he played in the same way no one would have complained. We barely played like that in any game.
 

justsomebloke

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It’s not but having two defensive shields to do a 1 man job means you don’t impose yourself on a game like you should. It’s all good trying to bash Jose and just say his football is defensive even though when he has the players he gets teams that score 100 goals a season. It’s the same thing, our tactics are designed to contain and punish teams with mainly moments of individual brilliance. I’m not hear to be a doom monger but it’s not a sustainable tactic.
Personally I think this is a really silly view of how United plays. As if we just went out to keep it tight, and then "moments of individual brilliance" somehow occur spontaneously to get us the necessary goals. Tactics and playing style is what make possible what you call "moments of individual brilliance". Tactics doe snot exist in a vacuum, irrespective of the abilities of the players, and nor does individual performance occur in a tactical and formational vacuum. The fact that Bruno and Marcus regularly pull these things off show that we're playing in a way that enables them to capitalise on their strong points, which is the exact point of tactics. It does not show that we have an ineffective playing style, but are bailed out by "individual brilliance". There is nothing unsustainable about a style of play where your offensive game is built on maximising the impact of your attackers best traits. Bruno is the perfect example - his passing accuracy is horrible, yet he is not just permitted but actually encouraged to make risky plays. Because those risky plays are our bread and butter, and worth the risk. A lot of teams would have reined him in, which obviously would have made him less of a risk, but would also obviously have reduced his attacking impact. Instead of doing that, we build our whole attacking game around his inspired risk-taking. And that's working pretty well. Also, that risk-taking needs to be borne in mind as something you have to offset in other areas - for example by ensuring that the rest of the midfield has a bigger emphasis on safety than they would otherwise have needed to.
 

Dyslexic Untied

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Given City have lost KDB for a period now, I think we might have a chance. We need Rashford, Martial and Greenwood to start firing again though and it would help a lot if Maguire managed to get a few more goals.

Seems that every team that wins the league has goals from corners in clutch games. We don't.

It could go absolutely either way though. I don't trust this side, and we are just as likely falling out of the top four as winning it IMO.
 

Red & White

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After yesterday’s performance and result, I’m daring to believe a little. The match just had a different feel to it and I was enjoying the game at 2-2, knowing we have the players and belief to win these types of games now. Could this game be the catalyst for a fine season like we would have all those years ago?
 

Ali Dia

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we're suddenly quite a bit ahead of Liverpool in the betting now, never would've thought that was possible this season

Citey 2/5
United 11/2
Liverpool 8/1
I took 40-1 and 30-1 in the weeks after the Spurs game. If Leicester could do it spending half what we are then we were surely just a few ugly wins away from being relevant again. You really can’t fault the team spirit under ole. We are still lacking quality in vital positions but this is a team going places again
 

Bobcat

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Its starting to feel a lot to me like this is that season before the one where we are a brilliant team.

We are currently (to quote the athletic) 'good', and its obvious that we have been progressing nicely over the last year or so, but it feels like that is accelerating now and a trophy this season would remove a lot of those lingering doubts we can sense the team have at certain key moments.
Agreed.

Of course we are top of the table right now and have just put a struggling Liverpool to the sword, but i dont really fancy us winning the league this year. We are getting better, but i dont see us as the finished article just yet and we still lack a few key players to compete with the very best.

Grealish/Haaland/Sancho to bolster our attack and a quality DM with good vision and passing range and i think we are there
 

Mainoldo

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Yeah Pogba and McT means 2 defensive shields. Was McT defensive shield vs Leeds too when he scored 2 goals and could have had hattrick?

THat's the problem with these discussions, people just assume playing player xyz means it's defensive, playing 3 at the back means it's defensive.

Jose's Madrid was exciting team, if he played in the same way no one would have complained. We barely played like that in any game.
Where was all these advance McTominay runs against Leipzig, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool? Did he have lead in his boots them games?

Jose’s team must have just been an exciting team to you.. Madrid fans hated it and wanted him out rightly so. Do you not remember how he came to Old Trafford and got found out by Fergie because we let them have the ball. He was lucky Nani got a red and he had a ‘bench’ player like Modric who knew how to keep possession. Which you might want to take note a player he refused to play often. I wonder why? Tactics maybe.
 

justsomebloke

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I think two things are beginning to emerge that give some cause for optimism for this season:

1. The man management approach/team selection. Remember the restart part of last season? We played the same starting XI every game, and with the same approach to the game. This to the point where we were all worried about burnout for some key players. But that seemed the right approach - we were building a clear identity and style, and we weren't losing. This year it's been very different - much more game to game, much more rotation, much more variation in style. I've been uncomfortable with that, because it seemed to me regressive compared to what we were doing last season. But I think it's becoming clear that this is actually a smart approach to this particular season, with its compressed schedule. And also a smart approach to use this squad, which has a lot of good players but is also badly unbalanced positionally.

2. That approach has also put the onus on key players to step up and contribute, and underpins a conviction that the team can succeed as a versatile collective rather than as the implementers of a pre-designed system. And they have. As a result, there is surging belief.

Not a bad foundation. It's going to be so interesting to see how far we can go on that basis - and in the longer run, where we go from there.
 

Mainoldo

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Personally I think this is a really silly view of how United plays. As if we just went out to keep it tight, and then "moments of individual brilliance" somehow occur spontaneously to get us the necessary goals. Tactics and playing style is what make possible what you call "moments of individual brilliance". Tactics doe snot exist in a vacuum, irrespective of the abilities of the players, and nor does individual performance occur in a tactical and formational vacuum. The fact that Bruno and Marcus regularly pull these things off show that we're playing in a way that enables them to capitalise on their strong points, which is the exact point of tactics. It does not show that we have an ineffective playing style, but are bailed out by "individual brilliance". There is nothing unsustainable about a style of play where your offensive game is built on maximising the impact of your attackers best traits. Bruno is the perfect example - his passing accuracy is horrible, yet he is not just permitted but actually encouraged to make risky plays. Because those risky plays are our bread and butter, and worth the risk. A lot of teams would have reined him in, which obviously would have made him less of a risk, but would also obviously have reduced his attacking impact. Instead of doing that, we build our whole attacking game around his inspired risk-taking. And that's working pretty well. Also, that risk-taking needs to be borne in mind as something you have to offset in other areas - for example by ensuring that the rest of the midfield has a bigger emphasis on safety than they would otherwise have needed to.
The term sounds silly as it makes the manager implementing them sound limited. But I never said it wasn’t a viable tactic... many coaches use it.. the most famous being Jose Mourinho and how many medals has that guy won. But we still openly disrespect his methods.
 

roonster09

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Where was all these advance McTominay runs against Leipzig, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool? Did he have lead in his boots them games?

Jose’s team must have just been an exciting team to you.. Madrid fans hated it and wanted him out rightly so. Do you not remember how he came to Old Trafford and got found out by Fergie because we let them have the ball. He was lucky Nani got a red and he had a ‘bench’ player like Modric who knew how to keep possession. Which you might want to take note a player he refused to play often. I wonder why? Tactics maybe.
I said Madrid team that scored more than 100 goals was exciting, they played arguably the best counter attacking football.

So playing Pogba, Bruno and one of Fred, McT, Matic is defensive midfield now? Also so what if he didn't make runs in all games? He made and he gets into goal scoring positions few times. Same with Fred too but his shooting is so bad that it doesn't even matter. Only true defensive mid we have is Matic.

Anyways ignore all that, how if playing Pogba and other CM alongside him is 2 defensive shields?
 

yamo123x

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In my opinion we are still some way off having a title winning squad, a few injuries could really derail us.

Realistically Mata, Lingard, Romero and Rojo are off this month or the summer
TFM already gone. Question marks on Pogba too and also the longeivity of Matic. Jones should just retire.Cavani may leave in the summer, i assume Ighalo will be gone too.

Axel, Pellistri, Diallo and hopefully Laird can step up.

Recruitment in vital areas is key...

**Right back possibly the toughest area to recruit, not many names screaming out, but we need upgrade on AWB. I'd take Tripper if he was avail on loan.

**Mobile physical ball winning midfielder--- to me Partey was the player for us but we held off so the names in frame Ndidi, Rice or Bissouma all fit the bill. Bissouma is very very good.

** Winger/ Creator -- Grealish is the stand out for me, he is a driving force, and gives us everything we need, he is consistently good and would flourish for us, imagine him and Bruno together
Sancho is the other option but his inconsistency worries me,


Dream summer in tripper, grealish, sancho Ndidi...... then we become a force.