Definitely not the finished article yet, but I actually do quite fancy us to win the league. We've got that lovely combination of beating all the teams we are supposed to beat, but also being able to ensure that we don't lose when we need to
How far off is this squad from a title challenge?
- Thread starter jamesjimmybyrondean
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It’s all about how they play and Bruno doesn’t play in the midfield. He plays 10 and helps out occasionally. He couldn’t even do a sitting job on Thiago at Anfield and don’t know what makes you think he’s part of our midfield.
Pogba has been told to sit deep for large parts of his United career which has always been the problem. When he is in the double pivot he plays deep and is told to do the same job as McTominay Fred or Matic. His skill set means he provides more in the attack.. but he doesn’t have the license to make continuous forward runs or he would. Which is where I was going with McTominay I which you could only highlight one game where he got forward.
That's not true at all. If he is a sitting midfielder then there isn't a team in the world who doesn't play 2 DMs
It´s about the momentum. We ve been building it up till now and hope we dont feck up. However we are in the mix this year alredy. Still think for more consistency we need possibly three great players:
A CDM, replacement/ upgrade on Matic/McT, argualbly should have done it with VdB money. To rotate him with Fred or put in extra steel in tougher games to play next to him.
Another dominant CB next to Maguire with pace and passing abilities. Imagine Maguire gets injured we are fecked, one can´t rely on Bailly to stay fit either. Tuanzebe same story while playing too little anyway. Lindelof should be our 4/5 choice CB, and we should never look back, he´s a decent palyer on his day but quality teams are built on rock solid defense and we are not getting that with Victor.
World class attacker. At this point I´d go for striker - Haaland, so much running power and finishing for our creative middfield and defense, also pressing from the up front. Cavani ideal sub/rotation option for him. Rashford would start form the left, while Martial beng finally used as an option from the bench. I´d cover the right side with Greenwood, Diallo or Rashford and then play Martial from the left. Also big chunk of games I think we would start with a diamond with Pogba and Bruno so two strikers up front could rotate accordingly.
If we lose Pogba reinvest the money in Grealish.
If we couldnt get Haaland get Sancho for a bit less and push Greenwood further up front.
This would be a super strong team definitely challenging, however if we dont add anyone we could be in the mix too, would just relied on City, Liverpool or wheoever not hitting their best form. This United team can do 85+ points imo, but getting to it to over 90 I think we are still inconsistent.
Just hope the owners and Ed will provide the money in a crucial moment of our rebuild. Only big money signign should be Haaland/Sancho and I think we could get a DM/CB for less in the current climate. Even some cheeky loan for Ramos or whonot.
A CDM, replacement/ upgrade on Matic/McT, argualbly should have done it with VdB money. To rotate him with Fred or put in extra steel in tougher games to play next to him.
Another dominant CB next to Maguire with pace and passing abilities. Imagine Maguire gets injured we are fecked, one can´t rely on Bailly to stay fit either. Tuanzebe same story while playing too little anyway. Lindelof should be our 4/5 choice CB, and we should never look back, he´s a decent palyer on his day but quality teams are built on rock solid defense and we are not getting that with Victor.
World class attacker. At this point I´d go for striker - Haaland, so much running power and finishing for our creative middfield and defense, also pressing from the up front. Cavani ideal sub/rotation option for him. Rashford would start form the left, while Martial beng finally used as an option from the bench. I´d cover the right side with Greenwood, Diallo or Rashford and then play Martial from the left. Also big chunk of games I think we would start with a diamond with Pogba and Bruno so two strikers up front could rotate accordingly.
If we lose Pogba reinvest the money in Grealish.
If we couldnt get Haaland get Sancho for a bit less and push Greenwood further up front.
This would be a super strong team definitely challenging, however if we dont add anyone we could be in the mix too, would just relied on City, Liverpool or wheoever not hitting their best form. This United team can do 85+ points imo, but getting to it to over 90 I think we are still inconsistent.
Just hope the owners and Ed will provide the money in a crucial moment of our rebuild. Only big money signign should be Haaland/Sancho and I think we could get a DM/CB for less in the current climate. Even some cheeky loan for Ramos or whonot.
Momentum luck and consistency are the key factors. Better to take each game as it comes and one at a time. Hopefully this summer we can improve the squad again. Still think we need a top class CB and a RW.
Did Liverpool play two DM’s?
City will win the league this year, they are still a different class to us; it was so evident when we played them in the cup a few weeks back.
I still think (Luke Shaw aside) our defense is a liability. Maguire is just not up to it at this level, and neither is Lindelof. That needs fixing.
Rashford needs to be used on the wing, he is just not clinical enough to be a striker, and Martial? I'd get rid in the summer, and replace with a genuine world-class striker. Cavani? I'd extend him for another year, he is still quality. Plus maybe a winger for the right.
Complete the above and I feel we'd be in with a genuine shout at winning the league.
I still think (Luke Shaw aside) our defense is a liability. Maguire is just not up to it at this level, and neither is Lindelof. That needs fixing.
Rashford needs to be used on the wing, he is just not clinical enough to be a striker, and Martial? I'd get rid in the summer, and replace with a genuine world-class striker. Cavani? I'd extend him for another year, he is still quality. Plus maybe a winger for the right.
Complete the above and I feel we'd be in with a genuine shout at winning the league.
They play 3 DMs.
Ian Wright was in literal awe of us at halftime.
Thats a huge reaction from someone watching us play live, V Liverpool as well
Thats a huge reaction from someone watching us play live, V Liverpool as well
Smart.
Okay well when you get chance go compare heat maps and see what areas there 3 DMs touched the ball against our two DM’s. You might be able to school me on positions and how my eye test clearly doesn’t see the game how your eyes do. I expect there’s to be a lot more advance than ours.
Is it against every team or you want to cherry pick the games like you always do?
Momentum in a title race is a beautiful thing. It drags standards up. Ole has done a great job getting us to the top of the league, and now we're in the fortunate position of wins breading more wins.
People are now accepting we're in a title challenge, which is good to see. At first, many thought we'd be top for a few days before dropping, but it seems we're competing well.
Every game feels like a must win, Sheff United, then Arsenal.
Liverpool v City is a big game in our race, too.
People are now accepting we're in a title challenge, which is good to see. At first, many thought we'd be top for a few days before dropping, but it seems we're competing well.
Every game feels like a must win, Sheff United, then Arsenal.
Liverpool v City is a big game in our race, too.
We are obviously in the title race and we may well end up winning the league,but we still need to address 4 weaknesses if we want to consistently challenge for the title over the course of the 2-3 seasons...In my opinion-1)We need a top class ball playing CB who can comfortably play in a high line,someone who’s comfortable defending 1 v 1.
2)We need a gopod attacking RB to compete with AWB
3)We need a genuine world class talent on the right..
4)A deep lying playmaker who can keep Possesion and set the tempo of a game...
So yeah,we still have a way to go before we can build a complete squad but for the moment,I”m just delighted with where we are...
2)We need a gopod attacking RB to compete with AWB
3)We need a genuine world class talent on the right..
4)A deep lying playmaker who can keep Possesion and set the tempo of a game...
So yeah,we still have a way to go before we can build a complete squad but for the moment,I”m just delighted with where we are...
This. Momentum has dragged our consistency up to the highest level.
We do ultimately need a RW, CB & ideally a world class holding midfielder to replace Matic. These aren't urgent purchases though, which is great to see. Maguire, Bruno, Cavani - they were urgent signings.
Do the whole season if you like. We play the same way with two defensive mids. So it will average out as expected. But surprise me!
Imagine the scenes if Ole guides us to an unprecedented league title. Way too early to dream but this team is looking like a well-oiled machine thus far apart from the occasional defensive lapses.
Go to Sofascore, check Pogba's heat map, then check Thiago, Fabinho (last season), Henderson (last season) heat map and see how many of them has any touches in the box.
I have seen it, i don't want to do all the donkey work of taking screenshot, uploading and posting it here.
https://www.sofascore.com/player/paul-pogba/111802
https://www.sofascore.com/player/thiago-alcantara/53825
https://www.sofascore.com/player/jordan-henderson/42694
https://www.sofascore.com/player/fabinho/243585
@Mainoldo im still interested to hear who you’d replace Ole with?
I don’t do those conversations in random threads. But if you want to start a thread about who should replace Ole when he leaves go ahead and I’ll contribute.
Not far if everyone is firing on all cylinders. When Rashford, Martial, Greenwood and now Cavani are on form no matter how bad our defense is we will win. For that matter our defense is not that bad and just on par with any top team.
I agree with you. This is exactly why this has become toxic. Ole was terrible in his early days. He seems to have learned from his past experiences and doing a fantastic job now. It doesn't matter who the manager is at United as we all want him to win. Be it Moyes, LVG, Jose or Ole. At least for me. I am a supporter of Manchester United.
I only bring it up as part of this thread you said Rice, Sancho and a new “higher level” manager. I’m merely asking you to expand on that last point.
Is there a better manager for United in world football that is available at the moment?
What is toxic about asking for someone to explain or suggest their alternative?
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You know why you are asking you want a debate you don’t really care who I recommend you just want to reel off your Ole facts. I’ve quite openly said I don’t care to have this conversation but by the sounds of it you are very clogged up. Maybe just get off what you want to say about their not being managers of a higher level and you will feel a lot better.
However if you want to discuss replacements create a thread. It will probably get closed as there is no need for it right now like there is no need to go into this debate you are trying to have.
But to cool your urges for abit... Ole is doing a very good job at the minute and for this season long may it continue. It’s been a long time coming.
Give us a good RW and I'd say we would be completed as a team. We need Cavani to stay in our team and I will put money on us to win the league (providing Bailiy stays fit).
You want to replace a manager who is top of the league with Pep and Klopp in it?
Interesting stratagem.
The team was terrible in Ole's early days, now he's built a team challenging for the title. You were wrong.
For once I’m not looking to argue. I’m genuinely just intrigued as to what other options people feel are out there and in particular your reason why you don’t think Ole can get our next title.
I think it’s important to acknowledge all opinions on the matter. Heck I’ll even give you a free uncontested recommendation of your choice.
The football is bland and unsustainable. But hey maybe we win a title. I’ll take the title and celebrate like crazy!
Why do you think he’s a high level manager?
I think your team needs a striker, Cavani is doing good and if he was younger he would be ideal but it's more like a short term option.
We are still lacking coached strategy. That leaves us over reliant on individual brilliance making the team tick. Which means Bruno. When he loses form then we start dropping points.
Who creates for the striker we would require. For instance if we get Haaland does he score that much more with our service? I still think a RW would be better
Did you see Sancho‘s assist for Haaland the other day? Quality.
The squad is very good, Bruno is big miss when hes not on pitch. Pogba has been great but is he going to stay? In summer I think Oles going for another AM along with CB, and top striker. Cavani has been breath of fresh air but hes 34. A proper striker in his mold with his movement his tracking back etc. We cannot stand still because were still behind City .
I see it like a symbiosis between both type of players. A pure striker would want someone to feed him balls but a team also benefits from having a focal point in the attack. Cavani isn't a youngester or at his prime yet you don't have anyone like him in the team so I think it's something to plan ahead and get a player in the mould of Cavani.
Ha ha. The old 'he was terrible but now he's good' refrain. I love it.
How about 'I used to be a crap fan spouting nonsense but now I've learned to keep quiet'.
Appreciate your view. What about it is unsustainable to you?
Where I think he is a high level manager is his man management and squad management. I think he knows how to get the best out of players at his disposal and sometimes that means playing and countering and othertimes it means changing formation etc but I do think he’s been the best man manager for United since Sir Alex. He has improved the performances or output of many.
He’s also looked to add the right characters, keep the right ones and get rid of the others.
I also think he’s very good at preparing for opponents and changing tactics for them. Now whether you think United should be doing that or imposing themselves every game is a personal preference but he’s been able to get results against other high level managers consistently because of this with inferior squads.
For the record I don’t think he’d do as good a job at any other club in world football so completely understand why some wouldn’t class him as high level.
Other than bland and unsustainable football are there any concerns you have about him to say he’s not high level?
I don’t actually think Cavani offers much different to Martial to be honest. Both good strikers playing their role for the team. I would agree both have been very wasteful and maybe a more clinical finisher would improve us. But you are talking their Attributes with Greenwood’s finishing. That would cost £100m and probably only fits the profile of Harry Kane.
Well, United is currently on pace for 80 points, which is honestly very reasonable. Last year, United ended up with 66 points, but that was with half a season of Bruno and Pogba. Scary stat--- last year Daniel James played 2287 minutes in the EPL. Pogba and Bruno COMBINED for 2390. Pereira (~1500 minutes,) Lingard (935,) B Williams and Ashley Young combined for almost 2K minutes. Those players aren't here anymore, or aren't playing that many minutes. This year has James with 324 minutes, Williams with 1 and Lingard 0.
IMO Telles is a better player than Williams. Cavani is way better than Ighalo. VDB is better than Lingard. Our depth is better-- our starting lineup is better bc we aren't starting James, Perriera, Lingard, Young or Williams. (They combined for 74 EPL starts, so basically on average 2 of those players were starting every EPL game.) (74/38 = 1.95)
Can United win the league? Well, if 82 points is good enough to win the league, then I think they can get 82 points. I've said before that this team has more talent than people realize. Which is why I was frustrated @ the start of the season when they were LUCKY to have 7 points in 6 games, and Ole was happy with a draw vs Chelsea. (I'm still livid about that.) Ole and the team were pathetic to start the season, but they have since recovered. We have seen good streaks by United before, so the question is, can they keep it up? Bruno who absolutely hates to lose is the leader United have been lacking. He gives me faith that yes, United can get to 80-82 points this year.
I mean United had 81 points 3 years ago and that team was Lukaku, Smalling, Phil Jones, Young, Valencia, Matic, Pogba, Lingard, Rashford and Martial. Yeah, those were the minutes leaders on that team. 81 points with Phil Jones, Chris Smalling, Ashley Young and Shaw/Rojo.
Seriously-- if that team can get to 81 points, then this squad can surely beat 81 points. United has 40 points, and only 3 goals combined in the EPL from Martial and Greenwood. If 1 or both of them can find some form in the 2nd half, and United can get some timely goals (especially vs the Big 6 teams,) then they have a shot. If United can win vs City on March 6th, and be at least 5 points ahead of City after the match-- then I will believe. But right now, I'm just cautiously optimistic that United can get 80 points or more this season. That would be a decent season. Not great, but decent. 85 points would be a great season. But right now-- I'm just focused on United beating Sheffield United. That's all that matters.
IMO Telles is a better player than Williams. Cavani is way better than Ighalo. VDB is better than Lingard. Our depth is better-- our starting lineup is better bc we aren't starting James, Perriera, Lingard, Young or Williams. (They combined for 74 EPL starts, so basically on average 2 of those players were starting every EPL game.) (74/38 = 1.95)
Can United win the league? Well, if 82 points is good enough to win the league, then I think they can get 82 points. I've said before that this team has more talent than people realize. Which is why I was frustrated @ the start of the season when they were LUCKY to have 7 points in 6 games, and Ole was happy with a draw vs Chelsea. (I'm still livid about that.) Ole and the team were pathetic to start the season, but they have since recovered. We have seen good streaks by United before, so the question is, can they keep it up? Bruno who absolutely hates to lose is the leader United have been lacking. He gives me faith that yes, United can get to 80-82 points this year.
I mean United had 81 points 3 years ago and that team was Lukaku, Smalling, Phil Jones, Young, Valencia, Matic, Pogba, Lingard, Rashford and Martial. Yeah, those were the minutes leaders on that team. 81 points with Phil Jones, Chris Smalling, Ashley Young and Shaw/Rojo.
Seriously-- if that team can get to 81 points, then this squad can surely beat 81 points. United has 40 points, and only 3 goals combined in the EPL from Martial and Greenwood. If 1 or both of them can find some form in the 2nd half, and United can get some timely goals (especially vs the Big 6 teams,) then they have a shot. If United can win vs City on March 6th, and be at least 5 points ahead of City after the match-- then I will believe. But right now, I'm just cautiously optimistic that United can get 80 points or more this season. That would be a decent season. Not great, but decent. 85 points would be a great season. But right now-- I'm just focused on United beating Sheffield United. That's all that matters.
Fair enough I can’t argue with any of your points. I wouldn’t agree on squad rotation and his in game management is very questionable to say the least. I do agree he does seem to be a good man manager but he’s not actually good at managing his squad. He has those he trust in and it’s hard to break in the team if the players he trust play in your position. He still is reluctant to make Bailly number one. How he managed Pogba so far after his agents outburst has been good but we could have probably been in a champions league last 16 if he actually started him in that game.
Much of what I was going to say seems to have been said in one post or another, but here goes...
We've had continual improvement over Ole's reign, and, hopefully, that'll continue this summer with three main additions of a quick and strong centre back; a strong, energetic defensive midfielder as an upgrade on Matic; and either a central striker (ideally, Haaland) or a right sided striker.
Until we sign those, we're clearly not the finished article and won't win the league in the dominant way and with the huge points total that we used to, and City and Liverpool have done. However, a combination of us improving and others struggling at present means we're at least right in the mix for the title a little ahead of schedule. And that's such a great feeling compared to the last half dozen years.
I suspect we're more likely to fall away a little as the season approaches the crucial stage compared to Liverpool and City: they've already got the squads with trophy winning mentalities; whereas, as our 4 semi final defeats show, we've got a squad that's getting closer but are yet to develop that. However, momentum and belief is a huge thing - which is why I really wanted us to take the cup game seriously and add to that with a key win over Liverpool - and hopefully this will be the season that we get over the line with a trophy, whether that be the league or either cup, and then kick on from there next season.
We've had continual improvement over Ole's reign, and, hopefully, that'll continue this summer with three main additions of a quick and strong centre back; a strong, energetic defensive midfielder as an upgrade on Matic; and either a central striker (ideally, Haaland) or a right sided striker.
Until we sign those, we're clearly not the finished article and won't win the league in the dominant way and with the huge points total that we used to, and City and Liverpool have done. However, a combination of us improving and others struggling at present means we're at least right in the mix for the title a little ahead of schedule. And that's such a great feeling compared to the last half dozen years.
I suspect we're more likely to fall away a little as the season approaches the crucial stage compared to Liverpool and City: they've already got the squads with trophy winning mentalities; whereas, as our 4 semi final defeats show, we've got a squad that's getting closer but are yet to develop that. However, momentum and belief is a huge thing - which is why I really wanted us to take the cup game seriously and add to that with a key win over Liverpool - and hopefully this will be the season that we get over the line with a trophy, whether that be the league or either cup, and then kick on from there next season.
Ole was terrible or the players he had available were?