How good is our attack really?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by VP89, Mar 17, 2019.

  1. Mar 21, 2019
    #41

    MyOnlySolskjaer Creator of Player Performance threads

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    He’s the most recent top level striker, he’s a player that carried us to a title with respect to the rest of that team.
  2. Mar 21, 2019
    #42

    tomaldinho1 Full Member

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    Issue is that Chelsea have Hazard & Spurs have Kane...truly WC players who they can rely on. Lukaku was meant to be that for us, as was Sanchez but as it stands we have a lot of promise but are far from having a truly WC attacker in our front three. Without at least one, we'll not get near a major trophy.
  3. Mar 21, 2019
    #43

    RC89 Full Member

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    None of the starting front three of Rashford, Lingard and Martial (in recent injury free lineups) remain unproven at the highest level over a season. All have their strengths but none are really outstanding at anything, atleast not on a consistent basis.

    The only one that looks outstanding at times is Martial but it's not nearly often enough. Rashford and Lingard make a good go of things TBF to them. Their workrate you can't really fault. But all three together seem to lack the creativity to best stubborn defences.
  4. Mar 22, 2019
    #44

    Striker10 "Ronaldo and trophies > Manchester United football

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    Our attack is very promising, however we lack flair/pace and penetration out wide. We've young attackers so they will or should improve but we miss pace down the lines to get in behind and stretch the game. Martial/Rashford can do it but they want to cut inside all the time for a shot. We're lacking a Giggs/young Ronaldo type player. If Lukaku could polish his game up then that'd be nice but there's goals there.
  5. Mar 22, 2019
    #45

    iHicksy Full Member

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    Yep. Completely agree. I'd argue that Son is a higher level than anything with have currently too, at least consistency wise.
  6. Mar 22, 2019
    #46

    tomaldinho1 Full Member

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    Yh I'd agree - even someone like that + Rashford + Martial would make a huge difference. It's a theme throughout out squad to be fair - our best player is Pogba and you'd never put him alongside the best PL midfielder's for consistency, ability wise he's arguably the best but he's still a bit of a yo yo form wise.
  7. Mar 22, 2019
    #47

    ForestRGoinUp New Member

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    Nevermind Barca, Juve and City's second choice attack...

    I expect a good number of Tier 1 attackers to move this summer, and yet I suspect we will get none of them (for various reasons sometimes beyond our control) and persist with our young boys like the other poster said. "Just give em another year" "They're only 21 and 22 and 26 and going into their 4th full seasons of first team football..."
  8. Mar 22, 2019
    #48

    Shamana Full Member

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    Never really understood how Lukkau was supposed to be that player. A good player, but limited. He has nothing on strikers like Aguero, Suarez or Harry Kane. Never the player to take you to the title.
  9. Mar 22, 2019
    #49

    Janson Full Member

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    It's always just excuse after excuse with Martial and Rashford, especially Martial. Having no width on the right has nothing to do with it. It's a valid tactic to use a player on one side who is playing more central and have most of the play mostly on one side. I remember Chelsea used to predominantly play on the left with Cole, Malouda and Lampard. While Anelka was going towards the middle. And it was very successful. If you have good players, it's still hard to stop, regardless if you have a threat on the other side.
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
  10. Mar 22, 2019
    #50

    tomaldinho1 Full Member

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    Yh agree - we fell into the trap of needing someone and apparently Morata & Lukaku were the only options. Had Ole (or most other managers) been in charge - there's no way he'd have spent £75m on Lukaku
  11. Mar 22, 2019
    #51

    Eli Zee New Member

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    Rashford + martial = inconsistent. When they deliver, it’s more of a surprise than an expectation, If im being honest.


    Basically no right wing.



    It’s amazing what Ole was able to do since he’s come here if you think about it.
  12. Mar 22, 2019
    #52

    doriandun New Member

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    Exactly, i would go further and sell him, switch the formation to 4-2-3-1, Pogba,Rashford, and a new right winger, occupy the three, in front of currently Matic, and Herrera, Pogba and Rashford can interchange positions, and with this setup allows Luke Shaw to overlap.
  13. Mar 22, 2019
    #53

    KingMinger22 City >>> United. Moaning twat

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    The only one I'd keep is Rashford and I think we need two additions in attack that are both much better than him.
  14. Mar 22, 2019
    #54

    Trizy New Member

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    Our attack is among the weakest of the top 10-15 teams in Europe. We're the weakest in the top 6 in our own country.

    Martial - Fine (15+ goal player)
    Lukaku - Needs replacing, too expensive to leave on the bench.
    Rashford - not good enough (maybe that will change with age)

    Attacking midfield - Pogba, beast goals/assist stats for his position.

    Fullbacks - Shaw is defensive which is fine once you have an out-and-out attacking RB, which we need.

    Our RW alone is costing us Goals, assists and most importantly, space. Add an attacking thread on the RW and teams can no longer double up on Martial as they'll have too many attacking options to think about.
  15. Mar 22, 2019
    #55

    VP89 Pogba's biggest fan

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    Martial has failed to net more than 15 goals in each of the past 3 seasons.

    Lukaku has 27 from his debut with us and 15 for us so far this season, in what is regarded to be his worst one so far.
  16. Mar 22, 2019
    #56

    abdo99 Full Member

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    The RW thing is absolutely valid excuse. here's the average positions for our players this season. how can anyone look at this imbalance and say it's not a problem? a team could prefer to attack on one flank but literally noone has an empty side. when was the last time someone created from the right for a oncoming LW to strike into the net?
    I'm not saying it's the only reason but its a big handicap.


    it's shameful that 3 managers came and went without buying us a RW/RF.
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
  17. Mar 22, 2019
    #57

    Trizy New Member

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    It's so fecking infuriating that us fans with no knowledge of managing a top level club can clearly see that we're crying out for width on the right. It has made us too predictable in attack. So easy for a team to double up on Martial out the left when they don't even have to worry about the right hand side.

    Even bigger joke was Valencia was there some times to offer width, gets the ball in space, stops and back passes because he can't cross for shit or beat a man.
  18. Mar 22, 2019
    #58

    Janson Full Member

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    That seems to prove my point. Chelsea's attack looked almost identical. Anelka for Lukaku, Drogba for Rashford, Malouda for Martial, A.Cole for Shaw and Lampard for Pogba. And it was one of the most potent attacks in the world at the time.

    It might have a small impact but there's no way you can blame when our attack doesn't perform on that. Martial is getting doubled because of his lack of movement, RW won't change that.

    After all, we have won almost all our games under Ole without a threat on the right, so clearly that attack can work when the players are performing.
  19. Mar 22, 2019
    #59

    Janson Full Member

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    This RW thing is just another thing people cling on to, to justify our attacking players underperforming and to tell themselves there is a simple fix. Just buy a good RW and suddenly everything will fall in place. It's not that simple though.
  20. Mar 22, 2019
    #60

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

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    Not really. It is a decently big problem not having anyone who can play on the right effectively (combined with fullback issues). Another issue is Martial and Rashford are still both young and haven't stepped up properly yet. It'll come. Would've been idiotic for Fergie to buy some player in their prime to start ahead of Ronaldo or Rooney when they were 21 years old just because they weren't quite top players yet.
    We buy Sancho on the right to sort out that flank, and we show some patience for Martial, Rashford and Sancho to gel together and develop and there you go. Sometimes it is just that simple. But unfortunately that "simple" thing is showing patience and realizing you won't have immediate success.
    Our probably starting 11 when fit under Ole, just their ages, is:
    28, 33, 29, 24, 23, 30, 29, 26, 26, 21, 23
    Of those, the "key players" that we probably plan to build around are: 28, 24, 23, 26, 21, 23. That's De Gea, Lindelof, Shaw, Pogba, Rashford and Martial (who just turned 23 recently). Is it any wonder that our attack is inconsistent? It's not a case of people under performing, sometimes you just have to have some common sense and look at how old they are and realize that we rely on a bunch of younger players. When Fergie was here with Ronaldo and Rooney coming through, they had Van Nistelrooy, Giggs, Scholes, Ferdinand, etc all there. All world class players who were more experienced or at their peaks, all players who were the main players. It is always and will always be easier for players to develop properly and smoothly when they have more experienced players to rest on. Our situation here is that our more experienced players who should be key players in attack like Sanchez, Lukaku, Mata are either just not good enough, have declined earlier then expected, flopped, or were never as good as we thought in the first place. Even Pogba has only since Ole took over has shown that he can in fact be that world class player for us.
  21. Mar 22, 2019
    #61

    Lentwood Full Member

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    Here are a list of the usual RedCafe underachiever justifications, just insert at random throughout the thread...

    1. “Poor quality service”
    2. “Tired after WC/Euro’s/no pre-season/long season”
    3. “Carrying an injury”
    4. “Being played out of position”
    5. “Manager cannot get the best out of him”
    6. “Problems with marriage/gf/personal life”
    7. “Only young”

    Rinse and repeat until we buy someone new and everyone unanimously agrees they were in fact crap after all
  22. Mar 22, 2019
    #62

    Sandikan aka sex on the beach

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    That's amazing.
    The lack of anyone on the right hand side is ridiculous enough, but then you see even the left full back, and Pogba are well forward on that side too!
  23. Mar 22, 2019
    #63

    VP89 Pogba's biggest fan

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    A lot of teams (PSG and City for example) break their opponents down by spreading it left to right relentlessly, dragging the defenders from one side to the next and forcing the gaps between the back line to grow and grow.

    I totally get the point that a right winger wont be a magic fix to our attack but it definitely goes a long way. We are too predictable and easy to organise against with just one flank of attack.
  24. Mar 23, 2019
    #64

    Janson Full Member

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    I think having a proper attacking fullback on the right who can take on players is more of a legitimate concern rather than a RW. Mourinho or Ole could have played either Rashford or Martial on the right if they wanted to, but they didn't because that's not how they want to play. They probably wanted to play a creative or link up player like Mata or Lingard on the right anyway who can drift towards the middle.

    You can't compare Martial and Rashford with Rooney and Ronaldo. I'm pretty sure that neither of them will be anything close to that in their prime, but that's just my opinion.

    If you want to be patient and build a young team then that's fine, but is that really what we want though? At least I don't see that around here. People keep talking before every start of the season about how we're gonna challenge for the title and that we're just 2-3 players away from doing that.

    You are right that we don't have many quality experienced players to help ease in the youngsters, that's definitely a problem. Doesn't that mean that we should buy some good experienced players who can help us win now while still bringing the likes of Rashford and Martial of the bench? Because that's how I would do it. Sanchez was supposed to be that but unfortunately he's over the hill.

    The problem with not caring about winning now and giving a lot of time to inconsistent youngsters is how do you manage to keep a WC player like Pogba here, while they are developing?
  25. Mar 23, 2019
    #65

    Cassidy No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser

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    Where is Lingard in that graphic or Mata...
  26. Mar 23, 2019
    #66

    GM K Full Member

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    We made a massive mistake not investing well in the last two transfer windows (three Windows if you count what has now looked like a poor buy: Sanchez) and that wonderful run under Ole will not make up for it. In modern football, wide attackers are key and I don't just mean forwards. I also mean attacking full backs. We simply need to spend heavily now to shore up our attacking play.
  27. Mar 23, 2019
    #67

    Varun Moderator Staff

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    Our attack is lacking a genuinely world class player. Look around at any top team and each of them has at least 1 standout player. We have lots of talent but no one's already at his peak and one of the best in his position. The likes of Martial and Rashford should be playing around a world class player in attack. Tbf to our planning team, Sanchez was supposed to be that player.
  28. Mar 23, 2019
    #68

    Hawks2008 Full Member

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    None of them are clinical or creative enough. Rashford, Martial, and Lukaku are too streaky to be depended on . Lingard is a worker and has his qualities, worth keeping around even though he isn't great. Mata and Alexis are past it. A RW is desperately needed

    On top of this we only have Pogba who can create in the midfield and our fullbacks offer nothing going forward. Dalot needs to be playing more, and another creative midfielder should be brought in.
  29. Mar 23, 2019
    #69

    An Irish Red New Member

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    It's terrible for a club of our size. Martial is the best player in the front three and, even though I rate him, he's only really good enough to be a 'sidekick' in an elite team; not the main man.

    The rest of them aren't good enough full stop. In an ideal world we'd bring in Griezmann and Sancho this season, and really improve. We wont though.
  30. Mar 23, 2019
    #70

    ForestRGoinUp New Member

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    To answer the last question, you probably don’t keep Pogba, and on top of it you probably lose De Gea as well. But you do keep extending the Smallings Joneses etc. and you do put overpriced contracts on the table for your unproven talents like Shaw and Martial and soon Rashford (ugh he’ll be on 200k or more) and you do put the captains armband on the likes of Valencia and Young.
  31. Mar 23, 2019
    #71

    RedorDead21 Full Member

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    In my 38 years, Van Persie was one of our best ever strikers. There I've said it..... I'd rather him over Lewandowski!
  32. Mar 23, 2019
    #72

    purgethefallen New Member

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    Rather have Ruud over both of them.
  33. Mar 23, 2019
    #73

    KingMinger22 City >>> United. Moaning twat

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    Our attack, like our squad is utterly underwhelming.
  34. Mar 23, 2019
    #74

    InspiRED Full Member

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    Our attack is simply not good enough and it's ridiculous to see news of Rashford being offered that kind of money for turning out his budget Ronaldo performances in 2 of every 3 games. He was in good form for a little bit under Ole, perhaps he is being injured, but it's still a symptom of ridiculous club management that we're throwing money at players who have achieved diddly squat and have pretty much everything to prove.

    Makes you wonder if Woodward actually watches football games or just reads the daily express every day focussing on absorbing as much of the muppetry as possible.
  35. Mar 23, 2019
    #75

    Negan New Member

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    As soon as we sign Sancho and move Lingard to CAM, that’s when things really improve.
  36. Mar 24, 2019
    #76

    UNITED ACADEMY Full Member

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    We need that extra world class or top class attacker on the right. I’m sure both Rashford & Martial will get better next season. I like Sancho but I don’t think he can improve us to a level of challenging the league but I might be wrong with this one, may be he’s a prodigy like Mbappe or Neymar or even Ronaldo or Messi or Rooney.
  37. Mar 24, 2019
    #77

    Reddy Rederson New Member

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    Its shit. We are filled with too many players that are inconsistent. We all thought we had turned a corner(sick of seeing that said) but the honeymoon is over, performances are starting to slip. Its not Jose level, but that game against wolves was right up there. Saw the same body language from our "stars" that we saw too many times under jose. So at this point, Im hoping more than a few are moved on, Lingard most of all.
  38. Mar 24, 2019
    #78

    GazTheLegend Full Member

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    Our attack is decent except we’re badly lopsided.

    It’s honestly not a coincidence that our left side gets targeted defensively every game - we are weak there. And every time we go forward on the right it ends with a cross from Ashley Young which with Martial and Rashford as targets ends up nowhere. Rashford is not short, nor is he weak, but he never seems to find a lot of space in the box or if he does - get his headers on target, and that’s a big problem when you’re mainly crossing from your full back.

    Lukaku is great in the air but doesn’t seem to score many with his head, again.

    So the key is to try something different on the right to get to the byline, because we are doing absolutely nothing there. Either a change of personnel or a total repurposing of our attacks down the right.

    Our left is OK, but Martial has flattered to deceive a few times.
  39. Mar 30, 2019
    #79

    IrishRedDevil Full Member

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    Several players chipping in with goals to give it a positive spin :)


    [​IMG]
  40. Apr 11, 2019
    #80

    Godfather Full Member

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    It's fecking shit in all honesty. Imo we can talk about our defense all day long but what really needs to be corrected and strengthened is our attack. In all honesty I just don't think that any of our forwards are good enough.