How good was Xabi Alonso?

[11101]

Carrick is a decent comparison. Same era, same position ish, and fairly similar styles. Alonso was a bit more physical and suited to the Spanish carousel but Carrick was better defensively and for me a bit better at making the passes that counted.

I'd give the edge to Carrick simply because he was able to do his thing against anybody whereas Alonso could be played out of the game by the right opponent. Certainly at Liverpool, and when he moved to Real Madrid it wasn't him opponents were concerned with stopping.

 

[TommyGunn]

Just to clear up why Rafa sold Alonso....
In Rafas book he stats that he was told by Liverpools owners that he would have no money to spend that summer, that he needed to sell players to generate a transfer fund. That summer a few homegrown players had left the club, leaving Rafa 2 players short of the required amount. He realised that Alonso was his most saleable asset, he didn't want to sell Alonso, but he had to sell someone. So his idea was to sell Alonso and bring in Barry (similar type of player but nowhere near as good) and another home grown player (I think it was when we signed Robbie Fowler on a free, could be wrong though). So Rafa never saw Barry as a better player, he just needed homegrown players

 

[arthurka]

Not as good as Gareth Barry, that's for sure.

Ditto, even the Liverpool manager could see that.

 

[MrEleson]

Carrick played in a one man midfield at times, Alonso always played alongside someone better defensively than himself.

That’s not true for his first 3 years at Madrid. He played alongside Khedira who was a box-to-box and spent a lot of time in the opposition half. And he had attacking players in front of him that rarely tracked back. He was playing in the actual midfield essentially alone a lot of the times. Only when Modric came in and was a mainstay in 13/14 did he have more actual midfield support.

 

[BridgeBanter]

Class act, probably best paired with hardworking midfielder alongside of him like Mascherano/Khedira who will do a bit more of heavy lifting, although he was positionally excellent in defensive sense and quite phisical if the team needed him to be. He was also excellent in more adventures set ups with Modric in Madrid or during his time in Bayern.

One of the rare "scousers" who I kind of like as a player. Him leaving probably helped a lot, although I considered him great even in that Liverpool team (without wanting to admit it obviously). Not sure where Benitez mind was when he sold him.

Carrick is a good comparison, but I think he was overall a better player with more consistency.

Provider of one of the most brilliant, no look assist in EPL ever as well.

Holy hell that’s legitimately one of the best passes I’ve ever seen. Just the audaciousness to try that pass but the swivel, the technique…he’s facing the opposite direction!

 

[RobinLFC]

Carrick is a decent comparison. Same era, same position ish, and fairly similar styles. Alonso was a bit more physical and suited to the Spanish carousel but Carrick was better defensively and for me a bit better at making the passes that counted.

I'd give the edge to Carrick simply because he was able to do his thing against anybody whereas Alonso could be played out of the game by the right opponent. Certainly at Liverpool, and when he moved to Real Madrid it wasn't him opponents were concerned with stopping.

Yeah... not like that applied to Carrick at United or anything

 

[Infordin]

His Liverpool career isn’t helping his reputation on here

 

[BridgeBanter]

Only on a Utd forum would you see him compared to Carrick.

Seriously.

Funny thing is Carrick was a really good player. The last season United won the league him and RVP were two of the best in the league that year. He was also a key part of the mid 2000’s United team that was so successful.

As good as he was, I can’t imagine any other fan base would have Carrick above Alonso.

 

[PoTMS]

Carrick is underrated cos he's English and never made it into the England NT. He may be overrated by us United fans but he's definitely underrated by everyone else.

 

[BridgeBanter]

Carrick is underrated cos he's English and never made it into the England NT. He may be overrated by us United fans but he's definitely underrated by everyone else.

Basically this tbh.

 

[Trezeguet17]

Carrick is a decent comparison. Same era, same position ish, and fairly similar styles. Alonso was a bit more physical and suited to the Spanish carousel but Carrick was better defensively and for me a bit better at making the passes that counted.

I'd give the edge to Carrick simply because he was able to do his thing against anybody whereas Alonso could be played out of the game by the right opponent. Certainly at Liverpool, and when he moved to Real Madrid it wasn't him opponents were concerned with stopping.

I remember Klopps post match interview after the CL semifinal in 2013 when Dortmund beat Real 4:1 (Lewandowski 4 goals game).
Klopp wouldn‘t stop praising his midfield (Goetze, Bender, Gundogan) saying his match plan was basically preventing Alonso from getting the ball.
Alonso was playing a lone DM that game with Khedira as an 8 and Modric as an attacking mid with Ozil staying mainly on the right wing.
Bender and Goetze relentlessly pressed Alonso and Real looked absolutely toothless.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Only on a Utd forum would you see him compared to Carrick.

Do you think he's better than Gerrard?

 

[RobinLFC]

Do you think he's better than Gerrard?

Completely different players. I don't, but I'd like to see the arguments from people who think he is.

 

[iHicksy]

I always thought of Alonso as being the closest player to Scholes in terms of raw passing ability and position at the time (and Scholes is my all time favourite player)

 

[Stacks]

From what I remember, he was one of only 2 defensive minded players in Mourinho’s Madrid (excluding defenders) and they were rarely ever overrun.

A team that had Ozil and Ronaldo in attack, two players that probably do the least pressing and tracking back.

What about at Madrid, particularly from 11-13? He was the sole sitting DM. He was the protection.

He was the most dribbled past player in the league for consecutive seasons

This isn’t true though. He controlled many games at Madrid from deep. He was essentially the glue between the attack and defence and often dictated the tempo of games. 2010-13 Madrid would look a lot more like the current United (albeit still much better) without a player like Alonso in the middle. He was doing both the dirty work and great things on the ball.

Moved at a snails pace and lacked ability to dribble out of space later on. He was a bit like if Beckham played CM but slightly less mobile.

Somewhat overrated.

Had possibly the best long passing technique I've ever seen but lacked the ability to control the game like a Scholes or a Carrick.

I have to agree on the Real version. The young version and Pool version was immense. I wanted him here.

 

[Deery]

Never saw it..

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

As usual with these threads Carrick is severely underrated. I think Carrick was the better player. Anyone claiming it’s not even close hasn’t got a clue.

 

[MrEleson]

He was a bit like if Beckham played CM but slightly less mobile.

Saying this is an oversimplification of his game and a lazy comparison.. The only similarity between him and Beckham was their passing/long ball technique.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

Made Momo Sissoko look like a top player

 

[Ali Dia]

Slightly better than carrick IMO but similar players. Either one would be exactly what this team currently needs

 

[MrEleson]

Completely different players. I don't, but I'd like to see the arguments from people who think he is.

I think he’s a better deeper midfielder than Gerrard but Gerrard better attacking wise. Gerrard’s best season was behind Torres as a SS in 08/09 if I recall correctly.
His most comparable version to Alonso would be 13-15 where he was playing as a holding midfielder and he didn’t look anywhere as good as Alonso.

 

[TommyGunn]

Made Momo Sissoko look like a top player

Momo was a great player! Well up until he had his eye injury. You don't go to Juventus after us and play over 70 times by being a bad player ....

 

[Demyanenko_square_jaw]

Watched him from very early in his career at Real Sociedad, a team i was keeping an eye on due to Dmitriy Khokhlov being there and the return of Karpin in 2001-02. He was fully developed in his qualities from very early in his career and played a big part in them coming very close to winning the league.

Needed a bodyguard like Aranburu or another sitting player to get the most out of him imo, but definitely a great player with great vision and passing skills.

I don't really see the comparison with Carrick, who was a player with a much simpler passing style and ability, but who was better defensively. individual talent-wise Carrick was more comparable to Petit or Fernandinho than Alonso imo.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Carrick wouldn't be a name that would almost instantly pop up if you asked this question on another forum. Different player as well, simple as that.

Alonso wouldn't pop up among the greatest CMs either. Comfortably behind the likes of Scholes, Pirlo, Xavi, Busquets and Co, like Carrick.

I'd probably place him slightly above Carrick who often struggled more under pressure. But it's close between them with both being a few notches below the very best.

 

[The Original]

Only on a Utd forum would you see him compared to Carrick.

"I am a big fan of Michael [Carrick]," the former Barcelona boss said at the time.
"He is one of the best holding midfielders I've ever seen in my life by far.
"He's the level of Xabi Alonso and Sergio Busquets."

Pep Guardiola - not on a Utd forum

 

[Zoo]

What about at Madrid, particularly from 11-13? He was the sole sitting DM. He was the protection.

He was a hatchet man. Wasn’t good to watch.

 

[James Peril]

That was a ridiculous assist

It looks beautiful on camera, but that’s a clearance if it doesn’t hit a player, it’s just luck. He doesn’t have eyes in the back of his neck after all… but ok, it doesn’t happen if he doesn’t try.

 

[Abraxas]

Really classy player. Never gave it away but could play passes that count. Superb long passer.

I think the Carrick comparison is interesting as they were very similar indeed. I think Carrick was better able to shield defensively, whereas Alonso was probably the more incisive passer, especially with long balls - he was always better with a definite defensive presence whereas Carrick held with Scholes.

Overall I think if I'm completely objective then Alonso had the edge.

 

[Kanu]

Why is everyone talking about Carrick

Alonso was a good player, but became a tad overrated at Madrid. His handling was quite slow, but he had some of the best long passes I've seen. I'd compare him to Pirlo, but Pirlo was better in tight spaces and overall the better player.

 

[DatIrishFella]

Loved Carrick but Alonso was the better player. His range of passing and composure on the ball was what made him a fantastic deep lying playmaker.

 

[giorno]

He was a hatchet man. Wasn’t good to watch.

Speak for yourself

 

[NoPace]

I don't really see the comparison with Carrick, who was a player with a much simpler passing style and ability, but who was better defensively. individual talent-wise Carrick was more comparable to Petit or Fernandinho than Alonso imo.

Yeah, I think this is right. Most of the time you'd want Alonso, but there are specific midfields or tactics where you might prefer Carrick. Alonso was certainly the better passer and Carrick probably the better lone DM, partly due to better mobility.

 

[Tarrou]

Just to clear up why Rafa sold Alonso....
In Rafas book he stats that he was told by Liverpools owners that he would have no money to spend that summer, that he needed to sell players to generate a transfer fund. That summer a few homegrown players had left the club, leaving Rafa 2 players short of the required amount. He realised that Alonso was his most saleable asset, he didn't want to sell Alonso, but he had to sell someone. So his idea was to sell Alonso and bring in Barry (similar type of player but nowhere near as good) and another home grown player (I think it was when we signed Robbie Fowler on a free, could be wrong though). So Rafa never saw Barry as a better player, he just needed homegrown players

I mean surely there are other solutions to the homegrown issue than replacing one of your best players.. it’s not like he’d have made much profit from selling him and buying Barry?

Never heard of any other club doing such a thing - he clearly just didn’t rate him as highly as everyone else

Probably because of his defensive capabilities knowing Rafa

 

[Infordin]

His quality is reflected by the fact that even for Spain during their golden period, Iniesta was shifted from his natural position next to Xavi & Busquets (that would have mirrored the exact trio prime Barca were playing) out to the LW to accommodate Alonso in the midfield where he formed a double pivot partnership with Busquets.

I also don't think Iniesta was displaced to make room for Alonso, more so to cram as many possession players onto the pitch as possible.

The truth is more complicated.

Spain 2008-2012 did not have any real wingers who could beat a man with quality. Pedro was more of a runner, while Villa and Torres were traditional strikers. Iniesta was the best dribbler that Spain had, therefore it made sense to move him to that position.

Xabi Alonso was the perfect third man along with Xavi and Busquets because he provided more physicality than either of them (as well as Fabregas). Alonso had a very powerful shot from distance and was good in the air, he provided something different.

I also think that Alonso's international career in general is underrated, because he's overshadowed by Xavi and Iniesta. Alonso was immense for Spain at Euro 2012. He was at worst half a step behind Iniesta and Pirlo as the third best player that tournament.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

Class player. I think the thread got derailed for some reason.

 

[EtH]

Carrick played in a one man midfield at times, Alonso always played alongside someone better defensively than himself.

Exactly. Carrick actually was a one man midfield for large parts of his United career. If anything Alonso is overrated and Carrick is underrated and criminally so due to both the quality of midfield partners he played with and the tactical setup he played in for us.

Carrick was much more mobile for a start while Alonso never played at the base of any midfield due to being notoriously immobile and slow on the turn. In stark contrast, Carrick was brilliant at reading the game defensively, intercepting and snuffing out opposition counter attacks. Alonso was always partnered by at least one specialty defensive midfielder and even two at times.

People seem to only remember the wiley old Michael Carrick whose legs had all but gone, but he was an all-action player in his early days and prime. And he was asked to do tons of defensive work all the time for us as not only was he playing in a midfield two but a very open, attacking setup at that and next to Paul Scholes. So obviously he had to put a shift in to avoid the hairdryer.

And it goes without saying that Carrick’s movement, touch and passing were all top notch. Brilliant player technically. From dictating play from deep to defense-splitting through balls to majestic diagonals and balls over the top. He could run a game on his own and did many times for us with the likes of Cleverly or Gibson next to him.

Meanwhile Alonso was showponying around with at least one if not two midfielder partners doing all the real work for him. But sure Alonso had a good long ball on him. Big whoop. So did Carrick.

 

[Bondi77]

Looked a lot better in a league with less intensity but he is not Robinson Crusoe in that regard.

 

[berbatrick]

He had the same weakness as Carrick (agaisst high pressing), but it got exposed at the big stage more and he has less valid excuses. Carrick's famous bad performances were the finals vs Barca. First one, with Giggs and Anderson as partners, he should take some blame, though they were all obviously outclassed. In the second one, he was in a 2-man midfield with either Giggs or Park (not both!) up against that Barca trio+Messi dropping deep. No player from history could have done anything at all.

I remember Bayern neutralising Alonso and isolating Ozil for large stretches in the 2012 semi. Then Dortmund pressed him successfully in 2013. And a couple of times at Bayern under Pep he didn't look too good in the CL. In all these cases the opponents were more evenly matched, but he got dominated as badly as Carrick did in weaker teams.


Much better long passer than Carrick, a little worse defensively and less mobile. Overall close, but Alonso had a much better career, so ...

 

[EtH]

He had the same weakness as Carrick (agaisst high pressing), but it got exposed at the big stage more and he has less valid excuses. Carrick's famous bad performances were the finals vs Barca. First one, with Giggs and Anderson as partners, he should take some blame, though they were all obviously outclassed. In the second one, he was in a 2-man midfield with either Giggs or Park (not both!) up against that Barca trio+Messi dropping deep. No player from history could have done anything at all.

I remember Bayern neutralising Alonso and isolating Ozil for large stretches in the 2012 semi. Then Dortmund pressed him successfully in 2013. And a couple of times at Bayern under Pep he didn't look too good in the CL. In all these cases the opponents were more evenly matched, but he got dominated as badly as Carrick did in weaker teams.


Much better long passer than Carrick, a little worse defensively and less mobile. Overall close, but Alonso had a much better career, so ...

Yeah poor Carrick was dead on arrival in both of those finals. I suppose I get your point about Alonso having the better career as the real head scratcher in this discussion is Carrick’s international career or lack thereof. But Alonso had it very easy at both club and international level.

 

[Lay]

Always thought he was technically very good but was at times too slow. Especially off the ball. The Alonso, Gerrard, Mascharano midfield was a very good midfield though. I’d say it’s the perfect balance on paper.