How have we strengthened one area of the team whilst simultaneously weakening midfield and attack?

[Fortitude]

As the curtain closes on the summer window, it's time to draw some conclusions on our business.

Perhaps, there's an ace up the proverbial sleeve and we manage to pull a midfielder and a forward out the hat, but the reality of how we've done business in the usual calamitous fashion Woodward is renowned for, makes it about as likely as us announcing Ronaldo's coming back.

So, as the title says: how is it that we manage to get ourselves an undoubtedly stronger defensive unit whilst having a weaker midfield, reliant on one player not: getting injured, leaving, stropping or facing what, it's not dramatic to say, total collapse?

Further, Lukaku wants out, and we've known that since, what, June? And we've done nothing? We can talk about shuffling the pack about: putting Martial upfront or giving Gomes and Greenwood their chance, but at the same time, it's hardly fair to put that burden on a pair of kids and we're left a so-called star player short.

How is it that a multi-billion pound organisation is run in a way that leaves more questions than answers with the, you know, squad every single season? How many other clubs in the league manage to be weaker at the end of a summer window than they were at the start of it?

 

[RyRy11]

I would love another forward but this is the year we are hoping Rashford and Martial step up with players like Greenwood, James and Gomes in and around to show what they are worth. Its only that holding midfield player we are desperately missing in this window, sign a halfway decent one of those in the next 21 hours and I think we've had a 7.5/10 summer. I'd love us to sign half a first team but its just not realistic to expect that.

 

[2 man midfield]

I'm really hoping Ole has just decided the youth can shoulder that burden.

 

[Schweinsteiger]

All I would say to this is that the window isn’t closed yet. As unlikely as it is, something can happen tomorrow.

Points valid though. Over reliance on youth upfront. Rashford although likeable isn’t prolific enough or experienced enough to lead United’s front line. This is where I would welcome Mandzukic as a last minute buy.

Midfield is going to get caught out I’m afraid. We failed to control games last season and this will ultimately be our downfall. No excuses for letting 2 midfielders leave and getting none in.

 

[the hea]

We are putting faith in the youngsters but as we all know "You can't win anything with kids".

 

[kouroux]

Clearly the club is following a direction since Lukaku's exit has been known for a while. It is a gamble but we'll have to be patient to see whether it'll work out or not.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Don't really understand the narrative from people that say Lukaku is a donkey and gomes and greenwood are ready but we have somehow weakened our attack??

 

[Kush]

Because we are run like total joke from top to bottom with no planning/structure we are working towards. feck knows how Ole and his staff think midfield and attack is good enough for whatever goals they've set.

Another season likely to go down the shitter.

 

[space]

Cos we are a joke and too many fans accept it

 

[Infra-red]

Ed Woodward. That's how.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

I for one delighted with having Greenwood there over Lukaku, midfield is a problem.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

Essentially what's happened is that we have (probably) made our defence good, which cost money that we don't really have because the owners want to keep the majority of profits. In order to strengthen where Ole wanted, we've had to sell in order to buy, so at the end of the window when we can't replace him we've just happened to finally agree to sell Lukaku who has clearly known and been told he'd be sold for ages.

At the same time, we refused to increase Herrera's wages and lost him too. We thought that we could replace him on the cheap with Longstaff who wouldn't demand huge wages, but Newcastle asked for way more than we expected and we realised that we couldn't strengthen the midfield due to lack of money.

Overall, I think we have a worse team than we did last season. Sure, our defence is better , but we barely have a midfield at all, and our attack is toothless. We are not feeling as worried as we should be, because the kids have done alright in preseason, but they are too young to do it at the top level yet and when the season starts we'll really heavily on Matic, Mata, Lingard, even Young as soon as any of our full backs needs a rest.

Rashford won't suddenly become a goal machine or top level player, and Martial won't suddenly remember the insane potential he showed at 19. It's going to be a long season but don't worry, at least the Glazers won't be out of pocket and the tickets will still sell.

 

[Fortitude]

Don't really understand the narrative from people that say Lukaku is a donkey and gomes and greenwood are ready but we have somehow weakened our attack??

There has to be an element of relativity to assessments of Lukaku vis-a-vis a bunch of kids who are just starting out.

For what he was supposed to do, Lukaku did not deliver, but that's in comparison to strikers in the upper echelon of the league; these youngsters who are coming into the team should not have anything like the burden of responsibility Lukaku had, and it's unfair on them if that is what comes to pass.

Lukaku was supposed to be one of the leading lights of the team; if anyone expects anything like that from these two, they are being wholly unrealistic.

The kids should be supplemental to proven starters, not there in lieu of them, imo.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Don't really understand the narrative from people that say Lukaku is a donkey and gomes and greenwood are ready but we have somehow weakened our attack??

Because those two are hyped up, and most people haven't seen them play week in week out yet.

We know what we are going to get with Lukaku, yes donkeyness, but also goals, assuming they get a chance, then give it 2-3 months of Greenwood and Gomes looking like what they are (up and coming promising players that will frustrate, as much as they do excite) and people will be questioning the wisdom of selling Lukaku as he bangs 20 + in for Inter.

Don't get me wrong I wanted Lukaku gone, but to not replace him, and then spin that as something good, is just madness.

Edit - I might have misunderstood your post.

 

[Thiagoal]

All the best sides are build from a solid base and that’s what I hope we’ve achieved this summer!

We didn’t control games last season as our defenders shit themselves and hoofed it upfield rather than being composed! My hunch is that our defence will have a massive impact on our overall style of play!

 

[TrueRed79]

Ambition. We have none. The last three windows have proven that we have none whatsoever. Half the posters on this forum are in complete denial about the state of things.

 

[Gerald G]

Because we're not a well-run club, that much is obvious. How we didn't go hell and leather for a new midfielder is insane. As much of a priority as a CB. Just crazy negligence.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

There has to be an element of relativity to assessments of Lukaku vis-a-vis a bunch of kids who are just starting out.

For what he was supposed to do, Lukaku did not deliver, but that's in comparison to strikers in the upper echelon of the league; these youngsters who are coming into the team should not have anything like the burden of responsibility Lukaku had, and it's unfair on them if that is what comes to pass.

Lukaku was supposed to be one of the leading lights of the team; if anyone expects anything like that from these two, they are being wholly unrealistic.

The kids should be supplemental to proven starters, not there in lieu of them, imo.

Oh I agree but I guarantee the tidal wave of posts if lukaku stayed and started vs Chelsea would be 'why is ole starting the deadwood, Greenwood is already better than lukaku'. So just pointing out the overwhelming narrative is conflicting with the greed of 'we have cash must sign new player' with nobody recognising the clash. I am on the side that we need a recognised striker esp when letting go one of the premiership most consistent goalscorers since 2010

 

[simonhch]

We are definitely two players short of where we need to be. I don't think anyone can deny that. That said, I also believe that Greenwood and Gomes can make significant contributions this season. If we could only sign one player, it would have to be a high quality attack minded midfielder. That would have a multiplying effect on the rest of the team.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Essentially what's happened is that we have (probably) made our defence good, which cost money that we don't really have because the owners want to keep the majority of profits. In order to strengthen where Ole wanted, we've had to sell in order to buy, so at the end of the window when we can't replace him we've just happened to finally agree to sell Lukaku who has clearly known and been told he'd be sold for ages.

At the same time, we refused to increase Herrera's wages and lost him too. We thought that we could replace him on the cheap with Longstaff who wouldn't demand huge wages, but Newcastle asked for way more than we expected and we realised that we couldn't strengthen the midfield due to lack of money.

Overall, I think we have a worse team than we did last season. Sure, our defence is better , but we barely have a midfield at all, and our attack is toothless. We are not feeling as worried as we should be, because the kids have done alright in preseason, but they are too young to do it at the top level yet and when the season starts we'll really heavily on Matic, Mata, Lingard, even Young as soon as any of our full backs needs a rest.

Rashford won't suddenly become a goal machine or top level player, and Martial won't suddenly remember the insane potential he showed at 19. It's going to be a long season but don't worry, at least the Glazers won't be out of pocket and the tickets will still sell.

In a nutshell, this.

The plan was to spend around £100m maximum. This was supposed to be AWB, James, Maguire and Longstaff - offset by selling either Lukaku or Pogba. Newcastle priced us out of the move for Longstaff, so here we are.

The potential addition of Dybala was nothing but a completely opportunistic effort that never seemed possible until it briefly did seem possible.

Woodward has done his job perfectly. He sold the fans a dream with Ole, sold all the season tickets and kept our spending below £100m.

He'll be getting a hefty bonus for his work this summer, a job well done.

He will now have a long break. Around Christmas, when Ole and the players are on their arses, he'll get to work briefing the media again. Talk of potentially giving Ole "a warchest" in January. If form picks up, fine, if not, he'll fire Ole as soon as top 4 is dead and then get back to work again - spinning another 'dream' to the fans to try and sell the season tickets before having to back up his claims.

Cycle repeats.

 

[RedStarUnited]

In a nutshell, this.

The plan was to spend around £100m maximum. This was supposed to be AWB, James, Maguire and Longstaff - offset by selling either Lukaku or Pogba. Newcastle priced us out of the move for Longstaff, so here we are.

The potential addition of Dybala was nothing but a completely opportunistic effort that never seemed possible until it briefly did seem possible.

Woodward has done his job perfectly. He sold the fans a dream with Ole, sold all the season tickets and kept our spending below £100m.

He'll be getting a hefty bonus for his work this summer, a job well done.

He will now have a long break. Around Christmas, when Ole and the players are on their arses, he'll get to work briefing the media again. Talk of potentially giving Ole "a warchest" in January. If form picks up, fine, if not, he'll fire Ole as soon as top 4 is dead and then get back to work again - spinning another 'dream' to the fans to try and sell the season tickets before having to back up his claims.

Cycle repeats.

This Ed is stingy stance needs a rest. Only City have outspent us in the last decade.

 

[Fortitude]

Oh I agree but I guarantee the tidal wave of posts if lukaku stayed and started vs Chelsea would be 'why is ole starting the deadwood, Greenwood is already better than lukaku'. So just pointing out the overwhelming narrative is conflicting with the greed of 'we have cash must sign new player' with nobody recognising the clash. I am on the side that we need a recognised striker esp when letting go one of the premiership most consistent goalscorers since 2010

As others have said, perhaps something happens before the end of the window and we do actually get someone in, if not a 'star' then at least a covering veteran, but as things stand, and unless we've had something cooking in preparation for Lukaku leaving (which was in the offing since June) it is an absolutely shambolic way to start a new season.

I think we're all for the kids playing and hopefully doing well, but even if they don't, it shouldn't mean that's them done for the majority of the season, but for them to come in without obscene amounts of pressure on their shoulders, we really need a player(s) to shoulder the load of covering for Lukaku's goals and presence (that is to say the threat perceived) that isn't 17 or 18 years of age.

As the window currently stands, we've gone backwards despite knowing so much of what was about to unfold since the season ended (Herrera leaving as well as Lukaku most likely doing the same. You can also throw Fellaini into this mix) and that really is troubling.

 

[Stobzilla]

Addition via subtraction.

We will be a better team without Lukaku up front, Solskjaer knows this and he has proven that he can't keep his head down and his mouth shut. So if he isn't going to start (which he isn't) then he has to go.

Fellaini we all rejoiced at his leaving, McTominay is coming on leaps and bounds, not upgrading on Herrera after him leaving is a disappointment but Fred and Pereira have a shot at it regularly now, no use crying, might as well get behind them.

 

[Stacks]

I would love another forward but this is the year we are hoping Rashford and Martial step up with players like Greenwood, James and Gomes in and around to show what they are worth. Its only that holding midfield player we are desperately missing in this window, sign a halfway decent one of those in the next 21 hours and I think we've had a 7.5/10 summer. I'd love us to sign half a first team but its just not realistic to expect that.

You are doing the same insanity and putting expectations on 3 players with 2 top division games between them. That's nuts. They should have no pressure or expectation what so ever. I see James as youth team player. These guys should be used in Europa League and Carling Cup to see IF they are good enough. Arsenal have Auba, Pepe and Lacazette who are all proven scorers. Kane has more league goals than all 4 or 5 of our attackers. It's the leap of faith of all leaps

 

[SCJY]

It looks like Ole is finally going to implement a proper #10 position in the team in a 4231 formation this season. I hope he fully commits to it. We have so many players who can operate in the hole... Sanchez, Mata, Lingard, Pereira and Pogba can do a shift there. We haven't played with a #10, which is basically a more advanced 442 since SAF when he regularly played with a second striker. I feel in SAF's later years, Rooney was supposed to operate as a 10, but it didn't really come off. I dunno about Moyes, but LVG and Jose definitely didn't play with a 10. Mkhi and Kagawa were 10s as well but they were absolute disasters because we never played with a 10!

Well, if Ole is fully committing to playing this way this season, we probably shouldn't buy anyone in midfield/AMF because we are actually stacked in that position. Of course, it's better if we do, but it might be find if we don't. Pogba/Fred/McT/Matic will fill 2. I think Jones is going to be pushed up into backup for the holding midfield role if he's needed which is why we saw him attacking a lot more in pre-season. When SAF purchased Jones first, I imagined him more as a holding midfielder than as a CB anyway.

We have to give our existing attackers a shot in the new system. Give it til the Christmas window.

Dybala, Eriksen, Bruno all can operate in the 10 spot, so it's clear Ole is looking for someone world class for that position, but if we can't recruit the right player, I personally would much prefer we give what we have a chance. Commit to the new attacking system and reinforce if needs be.

I'm personally holding onto a glimmer of hope that Sanchez can refind a little vein of form. Let him operate as our creative output for a bit. Let him sink or swim and give him a run as the conductor. He might surprise us.

Or just buy Bruno FFS!!

 

[WR10]

Devils advocate: how have we spent 5 seasons focusing on offensive signings and have not been able to crack the 70 goal barrier for the PL season? Throughout all the fluctuations in our attacking/midfield signings we have had one constant problem: stopping goals.

The season in which we stopped goals most efficiently we also finished 2nd.

It’s a no brainer. A cohesive well functioning team with a rock solid defence will always win games. With or without a Ronaldo upfront.

Truth is we’re now going to get more out of our current attacking players more than ever before

 

[Rish Sawhney]

I think getting rid of Lukaku counts as an improvement in the attack. So our attack is actually better than last season with all the players a year older and more experienced.

 

[7even]

As things stands we have to replace 14 goals and 4 assist with the outgoings of Lukaku, Herrera and Fellaini.

Our solution is to move our best player and our top scorer to a two man midfield. In our 4231 line up the two best options to play in the number ten role had last year a record of 7 and 5 goals and assists. (All PL stats)

So our 5 best attacking players from last season, who probably as thing stands are starters in our new 4231 formation, had a record of 28 goals and 16 assist in season 2018/19. My prediction for us to improve from last season and finish in top four is somewhere between 65-75 goals.

Forgive if I’m skeptical.

 

[Lee565]

We are putting faith in the youngsters but as we all know "You can't win anything with kids".

Not when it is just kids, the class of 92 had the likes of cantona, keane, pallister, Bruce, schmeichel, Irwin, ince, mcclair around them, the current situation of throwing kids has no where near the experience, leadership and quality around them.

 

[SCJY]

Truth is we’re now going to get more out of our current attacking players more than ever before

Yep. Sanchez is supposed to be our talisman. He wears the #7 for crying out loud! Ole inherited him so he can't be blamed, it's a difficult situation for him. So he must play if fit, for better or worse. If he's shit, hopefully the board will help and bring in a replacement. Ideally, we'll see a miracle and Sanchez starts performing.

 

[SCJY]

The heads seemed to drop most last season when we leaked goals. Let's just hope that we can stop leaking soft goals and play a high press with the heads held high. Fingers crossed.

 

[Trophy Room]

If Ole promotes and regularly plays Gomes and Axel that would be exciting imo. Greenwood will progress this season but he is not ready to start.

 

[The White Pele]

I’m completely confused as to what the plan was for midfield and attack recruitment. It’s clear we have money left to spend but until the last couple of days the most rumoured players have been Fernandes and Dybala.

Fernandes we are now told we were never interested in.

Dybala seemingly only became a potential signing in the last couple of weeks when Juventus offered him up.

So if those two weren’t part of the plan then who was? If anyone?

It really does seem as if we can only work on one transfer at a time and that we have spent all summer on the Maguire deal and are now running around in the last hours trying to get something else done.

I’m glad we haven’t panic bought (yet) but it’s really poor not to have identified and executed on our targets at this stage when we seem keen to do more business.

 

[JJ12]

The youth has to step up now.

Gomes and Greenwood in particular I am okay with that too.

 

[FromTheBench]

Our attack would be better simply because of the new way we play.

Midfield is still a concern though. We are depending a lot on youngsters or erratic players.

 

[the hea]

Not when it is just kids, the class of 92 had the likes of cantona, keane, pallister, Bruce, schmeichel, Irwin, ince, mcclair around them, the current situation of throwing kids has no where near the experience, leadership and quality around them.

Pogba, De Gea, Maguire and Shaw all have the right quality and experience. We are not competing for the title this season that was never happening but I am certain that we will see major improvements from players like Rashford, Martial, McTominay, Greenwood and Gomes and that will be enough for a comfortable top 4 finish.

 

[renatosanches85]

I’d rather give Gomes, Garner, Tuanzebe, Greenwood, Chong a fair crack at first team football. Chances are we won’t make top four, I’d rather do it with youngsters than mercenaries like Dybala.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

We are putting faith in the youngsters but as we all know "You can't win anything with kids".

Ed has played this brilliantly and deserves millions in bonuses for this window alone. All those briefings about only going for players that want to play for the badge (while keeping Pogba and De Gea, cough, cough) and giving youth a chance like the United way have worked a charm. Now Glazers tightening the purses is being applauded. Well done Ed.

 

[renatosanches85]

Pogba, De Gea, Maguire and Shaw all have the right quality and experience. We are not competing for the title this season that was never happening but I am certain that we will see major improvements from players like Rashford, Martial, McTominay, Greenwood and Gomes and that will be enough for a comfortable top 4 finish.

Can’t see top 4 but if we play a lot of the youngsters and they show visible improvement, and stay in the top 6, that’ll be promising going forward.

 

[Ranchero]

As the curtain closes on the summer window, it's time to draw some conclusions on our business.

Perhaps, there's an ace up the proverbial sleeve and we manage to pull a midfielder and a forward out the hat, but the reality of how we've done business in the usual calamitous fashion Woodward is renowned for, makes it about as likely as us announcing Ronaldo's coming back.

So, as the title says: how is it that we manage to get ourselves an undoubtedly stronger defensive unit whilst having a weaker midfield, reliant on one player not: getting injured, leaving, stropping or facing what, it's not dramatic to say, total collapse?

Further, Lukaku wants out, and we've known that since, what, June? And we've done nothing? We can talk about shuffling the pack about: putting Martial upfront or giving Gomes and Greenwood their chance, but at the same time, it's hardly fair to put that burden on a pair of kids and we're left a so-called star player short.

How is it that a multi-billion pound organisation is run in a way that leaves more questions than answers with the, you know, squad every single season? How many other clubs in the league manage to be weaker at the end of a summer window than they were at the start of it?

This really is a repeat thread.