How important is the Europa League to the club's future?

If we can win it, which in theory we could then yes it is massive in terms of how far the club can progress in the summer, more money, more draw for players, maybe we get to sign 1 or 2 extra players, maybe our finances are just a lot easier, but it doesn't change the direction of travel just the speed.

It could also be argued that (excluding finances) being out of Europe next season could be hugely beneficial given that even if we manage to sign 4-5 players in the summer, our squad will still be short on numbers and quality, not having the additional games has been shown time and again to be a significant factor in league form.

So getting into Europe again next season gets us money and maybe more/better players but also brings more pressure and fatigue, given how poor we actually are right now getting into Europe puts us ahead of where we can actually compete and could do more harm than good, that said of course I want to win it, and there will definitely be significant gains from it, but it is a double edged sword
 
Zed 101 said:
If we can win it, which in theory we could then yes it is massive in terms of how far the club can progress in the summer, more money, more draw for players, maybe we get to sign 1 or 2 extra players, maybe our finances are just a lot easier, but it doesn't change the direction of travel just the speed.

It could also be argued that (excluding finances) being out of Europe next season could be hugely beneficial given that even if we manage to sign 4-5 players in the summer, our squad will still be short on numbers and quality, not having the additional games has been shown time and again to be a significant factor in league form.

So getting into Europe again next season gets us money and maybe more/better players but also brings more pressure and fatigue, given how poor we actually are right now getting into Europe puts us ahead of where we can actually compete and could do more harm than good, that said of course I want to win it, and there will definitely be significant gains from it, but it is a double edged sword
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I'd agree that if we were in Europe next season it would absolutely need to be the secondary concern and fans would have to accept heavy rotation. You're correct that the squad next season will be thin even with investment, as it will likely be a case of one in for each one that leaves.
 
The way we are playing it would be a small miracle to advance another stage in this competition. To win it, we need to up our game to levels unseen this season. I just don't see it happening, it would be great of course, Amorim will earn some credibility, players will get momentum, belief, we will get some money and play CL next season. It's just an impossible dream unfortunately.
To think a couple of years ago we won it with Mourinho and I wasn't that impressed, how time have changed...
 
Zed 101 said:
If we can win it, which in theory we could then yes it is massive in terms of how far the club can progress in the summer, more money, more draw for players, maybe we get to sign 1 or 2 extra players, maybe our finances are just a lot easier, but it doesn't change the direction of travel just the speed.

It could also be argued that (excluding finances) being out of Europe next season could be hugely beneficial given that even if we manage to sign 4-5 players in the summer, our squad will still be short on numbers and quality, not having the additional games has been shown time and again to be a significant factor in league form.

So getting into Europe again next season gets us money and maybe more/better players but also brings more pressure and fatigue, given how poor we actually are right now getting into Europe puts us ahead of where we can actually compete and could do more harm than good, that said of course I want to win it, and there will definitely be significant gains from it, but it is a double edged sword
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You might be correct but ultimately, finance leads everything else.

Again, we are banning staff parties and reducing what they serve in the staff canteen to save money.

At least 5 home games less next season means a drop in ticket revenue of around 15/16 million. That's ignoring the extra prize money/TV money etc and the small chance of qualifying for the Champions League which would (I'm guessing) more than double the TV/Prize money pot.
 
We got a tricky tie. Real Sociedad are in decent form lately. They have awful fixtures coming up which will help us. Madrid, Barcelona the us. They should be fatigued by the time we play them.
 
fergiewherearethou said:
The way we are playing it would be a small miracle to advance another stage in this competition. To win it, we need to up our game to levels unseen this season. I just don't see it happening, it would be great of course, Amorim will earn some credibility, players will get momentum, belief, we will get some money and play CL next season. It's just an impossible dream unfortunately.
To think a couple of years ago we won it with Mourinho and I wasn't that impressed, how time have changed...
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it’s not about raising our performance to ‘levels unseen’. We’ve had some good performances under Amorim against City Liverpool and Arsenal and if we played like that consistently we’d be in a much better position.

Theres no team left in the Europa League that we can’t beat. But there’s no team left that can’t turn us over either. It depends on what United team turns up.
 
I’m a bit worried about the suggestion on twitter recently that Ineos would find it easier if we don’t qualify for the CL this year because it’ll raise all the wages again if we do, and make it harder to sell our underperforming high-earners.

Seems like “no way would a top club think that way” but United surprise me time after time for the wrong reasons in recent years
 
LawCharltonBest said:
I’m a bit worried about the suggestion on twitter recently that Ineos would find it easier if we don’t qualify for the CL this year because it’ll raise all the wages again if we do, and make it harder to sell our underperforming high-earners.

Seems like “no way would a top club think that way” but United surprise me time after time for the wrong reasons in recent years
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Yeah INEOS are turning us into a bigger laughing stock than the leeches, no wonder we can't attract quality players right now.

Getting it back on topic I completely agree with people who say European Football next season could be a double edged sword.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
I’m a bit worried about the suggestion on twitter recently that Ineos would find it easier if we don’t qualify for the CL this year because it’ll raise all the wages again if we do, and make it harder to sell our underperforming high-earners.

Seems like “no way would a top club think that way” but United surprise me time after time for the wrong reasons in recent years
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This doesn't really make sense - the players get bonuses for CL qualification but their base level wages won't change. Ineos would certainly rather the CL revenue, which will dwarf any add ons we have in contracts, anyway. The player will be just as easy/hard to sell, though it allows us to negotiate from a better position if the stories of us being strapped for cash die off with CL money coming in.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
This doesn't really make sense - the players get bonuses for CL qualification but their base level wages won't change. Ineos would certainly rather the CL revenue, which will dwarf any add ons we have in contracts, anyway. The player will be just as easy/hard to sell, though it allows us to negotiate from a better position if the stories of us being strapped for cash die off with CL money coming in.
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Apparently the wages all dropped 25% when we failed to qualify for the Champions League and will raise 25% when we re-qualify

Way I understand it, in a season we are a CL team Rashford's wages (for example) would be £325k pw. In a season we are not in the CL then they are just over £243k pw.

I think. Someone may correct me.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
Apparently the wages all dropped 25% when we failed to qualify for the Champions League and will raise 25% when we re-qualify

Way I understand it, in a season we are a CL team Rashford's wages (for example) would be £325k pw. In a season we are not in the CL then they are just over £243k pw.

I think. Someone may correct me.
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Yes but isn't this just due to the clauses. As in any player with a clause, gets the bonus, but the actual weekly wage is different. For example, Atony was on £75k base, but if he hit all his targets he would have been on £150k (obviously he/we did not). There are usually many clauses, like goal targets, appearances etc. as well.
 
If we win and get in the CL this team is going to get savaged in that competition. More money for the glazers and Jim, that's about it. I can't see them investing in the team in any major way over the next few years. Survival mode activated
 
The added money, a trophy to top off a complete disaster of a season just short of a relegation battle.

Yeah I think the club badly needs to win the EL. Take into account the club will need to get in players to replace those that are gone, they need every penny accounted for which would include the EL money and then the CL. Realistically, the club need at least 6 signings. The quality we need will be from players that are wanting CL football. Without it and they will expect wages we should not be paying.
 
GBBQ said:
it’s not about raising our performance to ‘levels unseen’. We’ve had some good performances under Amorim against City Liverpool and Arsenal and if we played like that consistently we’d be in a much better position.

Theres no team left in the Europa League that we can’t beat. But there’s no team left that can’t turn us over either. It depends on what United team turns up.
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Well i wouldn't say city Liverpool and arsenal were good performances, just very good results. They were definitely better than what we are seeing now but them three games should not be our benchmark.

However I'd be more than happy for now until season end, playing simple basic football, defending properly and attacking at speed in the counter. I dont expect anything good right now. Heck, even if our players broke a sweat, it would be good. Motd analysis, no matter what you think of the pundits, highlighted the jogging and lack of effort.
 
I’m sorry, but I can’t understand any sentiment of not wanting CL football? It’s like saying we can’t win the PL so we should have a go at the Championship. Short squad or not, as a club, we need to be competing in the biggest competitions, even if unlikely winners.

The revenue earned in the CL (including increased sponsorship), massively eclipses any salary uplift / bonuses, people get paid to work that out in advance.
 
DeludedOptimism said:
I’m sorry, but I can’t understand any sentiment of not wanting CL football? It’s like saying we can’t win the PL so we should have a go at the Championship. Short squad or not, as a club, we need to be competing in the biggest competitions, even if unlikely winners.

The revenue earned in the CL (including increased sponsorship), massively eclipses any salary uplift / bonuses, people get paid to work that out in advance.
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It can't be true. CL football can bring upwards of 100m in revenue. To say we want to be out deliberately just to keep some wages down is nonsense. As if another year of Europa or no European football will help us get rid of Mount or Shaw. Any increase in wages due to CL football will easily be taken care of by the increase in revenue. Also, CL football brings in more sponsorship money too.
 
MrBest said:
Well i wouldn't say city Liverpool and arsenal were good performances, just very good results. They were definitely better than what we are seeing now but them three games should not be our benchmark.

However I'd be more than happy for now until season end, playing simple basic football, defending properly and attacking at speed in the counter. I dont expect anything good right now. Heck, even if our players broke a sweat, it would be good. Motd analysis, no matter what you think of the pundits, highlighted the jogging and lack of effort.
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Your second paragraph contradicts your first, the results of those 3 games happened basically by doing what you say you're happy with
 
Don’t understand how you could say it is beneath us… this is our level right now… Opta gives us a relatively decent chance of winning it but we are by no means the favourites. It is a balanced competition and winning it would help biuld this team’s spirit and grow Amorim’s standing. Plus we really need to get back to the CL for financial reasons.


For some reason, Super bottlers trophy allergic Spurs are above us… We gotta show them wrong.

 
We had a shot with a fit Amad. I am finding it difficult to see us winning this
 
Huge. They must win the Europa League to save the season. It will be a disaster if they don't win it.

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DeludedOptimism said:
The revenue earned in the CL (including increased sponsorship), massively eclipses any salary uplift / bonuses, people get paid to work that out in advance.
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Also, it will be more difficult to attract top talent in the transfer window without CL football.
 
If we were only in the PL and FA Cup, then i would say Amorim has a free hit to experiment.

With the club up against it financially and Amorim needing investment, getting into the CL is a massive lifeline.

That is why i think he need to start being pragmatic about his lineups and tactics now, especially with so many injured players.

If he really believes that 3421 is the way to get results and find form now, then fine. But if we have a better shot at winning games with a 433, then he needs to adapt.
 
gaffs said:
If we were only in the PL and FA Cup, then i would say Amorim has a free hit to experiment.

With the club up against it financially and Amorim needing investment, getting into the CL is a massive lifeline.

That is why i think he need to start being pragmatic about his lineups and tactics now, especially with so many injured players.

If he really believes that 3421 is the way to get results and find form now, then fine. But if we have a better shot at winning games with a 433, then he needs to adapt.
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Yeah we may need a tweaked approach in cups
 
gaffs said:
With the club up against it financially and Amorim needing investment, getting into the CL is a massive lifeline.

That is why i think he need to start being pragmatic about his lineups and tactics now, especially with so many injured players.
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Perhaps it’s time to rest our stars for Premier League matches (no way we will get relegated) and let them focus on the FA Cup and Europa League.
 
JoseM4 said:
Perhaps it’s time to rest our stars for Premier League matches (no way we will get relegated) and let them focus on the FA Cup and Europa League.
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Yeah they are definitely higher priority, however think the chances of it are very remote
 
It's even more important now we're out of the FA cup . The atmosphere around the club is the worst I've ever seen it and a strong or flukey Europa League win would at least give some hope.

You get the feeling OT has to be rocking and the players have to be at their very best like they were against City/Liverpool earlier in the season if we're going to get anywhere.
 
Irwin99 said:
It's even more important now we're out of the FA cup . The atmosphere around the club is the worst I've ever seen it and a strong or flukey Europa League win would at least give some hope.

You get the feeling OT has to be rocking and the players have to be at their very best like they were against City/Liverpool earlier in the season if we're going to get anywhere.
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See with Amad, Mainoo and Martinez (our best passer annd goal scorer from the back) out our attacking has become completely barren. Earlier our attack was Hojlund/Zhrikee, Bruno and Amad to now Bruno back in midfield and now having Garnacho, Zhirkee and Hojlund these are players who have scored one goal
In 18 matches or something. It’s that bad, in order to squeeze through any cup competition you need goals which we don’t have and any match is a toss up.

Our season depends on basically fluking any sort of win against Sociedad and then up till next round hope we have Mount and Mainoo available. Having Bruno and Mount as part of front three will significantly give us more chances of scoring few goals then these worthless front three.
 
bgoodall said:
Help us Obi one. You’re our only hope.
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I think he is not ready. Today was a great example, he got himself into very promising situations but his finishing, touch is very raw and either he just snatched at it or could not control the ball. Its not fair on him, but today was his big chance to rise into folklore as to speak and make his name like Macheda or Rashford who were also drafted in last moment from reserves, they both took their chances and remained in history, let’s see if he does the same but we only have Europa league left.
 
Irwin99 said:
It's even more important now we're out of the FA cup . The atmosphere around the club is the worst I've ever seen it and a strong or flukey Europa League win would at least give some hope.

You get the feeling OT has to be rocking and the players have to be at their very best like they were against City/Liverpool earlier in the season if we're going to get anywhere.
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Yep Thursday is a big game. Got to get some kind of decent result to make the OT crowd even relevant for the second leg.
 
Fahad Jawaid said:
See with Amad, Mainoo and Martinez (our best passer annd goal scorer from the back) out our attacking has become completely barren. Earlier our attack was Hojlund/Zhrikee, Bruno and Amad to now Bruno back in midfield and now having Garnacho, Zhirkee and Hojlund these are players who have scored one goal
In 18 matches or something. It’s that bad, in order to squeeze through any cup competition you need goals which we don’t have and any match is a toss up.

Our season depends on basically fluking any sort of win against Sociedad and then up till next round hope we have Mount and Mainoo available. Having Bruno and Mount as part of front three will significantly give us more chances of scoring few goals then these worthless front three.
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Agreed. People will naturally mock and say it will be a miracle for the likes of Mount and Shaw to be fit but we have to hope. Mainoo being back will be a boost too, just got to somehow make it against Sociedad. I know Amorim has been dealt a bad set of cards with this squad but it's up to him and the club to make it work in the short term at least and find a solution.
 
Would be very good for the finances but the squad is so light I'm not expecting to go any further.

Perhaps a bit of luck against Sociedad we can have some players back for later matches.
 
I think we will probably organise more lucrative friendlies and the tiredness of the players be damned. S.E.A. fixtures, America, basically whatever pays the most. And I imagine maybe even some mid season friendlies if UEFA allow it. It won't make up for the lost revenue but to be honest as long as you have the Premier League funds that's what counts.

Charging £66 a ticket in the North to watch the absolute dross Ratcliffe + friends are putting our there is hard to bear though, they need to be careful because the club can't run on the goodwill fumes of the past like this for much longer without a dam breaking and attendances finally dropping.
 
With the bare bones squad available, due to injuries and loaning out poor and underperforming players, we have finally hit a brick wall.
Doesn’t matter how well we play, if we can’t score goals, we won’t win games.
So whatever the performance on Thursday night, unless we come away with a win, or draw, there’s little chance of winning the tie over the two legs and the season is finished.

Which takes us back to the title of this tread.
No European football next season and a poor finishing spot in the league, is going to be a financial hit that Utd can ill afford at this point in history.
Reduced prize money, reduced TV money, reduced match day income and reduced commercial income.
All of which impacts on our ability to go into the transfer market and try and claw back results on the pitch.
The club is truly stuck in a deep rut, without that Europa victory.


.
 
Banana Republic said:
With the bare bones squad available, due to injuries and loaning out poor and underperforming players, we have finally hit a brick wall.
Doesn’t matter how well we play, if we can’t score goals, we won’t win games.
So whatever the performance on Thursday night, unless we come away with a win, or draw, there’s little chance of winning the tie over the two legs and the season is finished.

Which takes us back to the title of this tread.
No European football next season and a poor finishing spot in the league, is going to be a financial hit that Utd can ill afford at this point in history.
Reduced prize money, reduced TV money, reduced match day income and reduced commercial income.
All of which impacts on our ability to go into the transfer market and try and claw back results on the pitch.
The club is truly stuck in a deep rut, without that Europa victory.


.
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Obviously Champions League money would be fantastic, but we’ve already heard that Ineos are budgeting us for the Europa League over the next few seasons, anything else is a bonus. The cuts, lack of January signings, are because they are expecting a hit on revenue. The difference between the Europa and not is probably around £35 million. We can likely recoup that by selling Garnacho. The wages of Eriksen, Lindelof and another senior player would get us close to that amount.

I’m not sure it’s the absolute disaster some are predicting, but it would hold up the rebuild by another year. Money aside, actually participating in the champions league next season could be a disaster for a thin, inexperienced squad. Without it, I can see us going very young next year.
 
Might be worth resting players for league games and just focusing on the 7 remaining Europa games (if we were to make the final). Its still winnable. Even though we can't win a game at the moment, we're not losing many games either and we're still unbeaten in Europe.

Sociadad are 10th in la liga. No excuse really.
 
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