Don’t get me wrong, any win is a great win right now. I’m just saying bigger picture if he were to be considered for the permanent role, this is not the type of performance that’ll get him the gig.
How many wins from the last 16 games would convince you to give Carrick a contract?
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100%.
If we were only judging Carrick as an interim manager, the issues in the performance wouldn't even been worth commenting on.
And even in terms of judging him as a potential permanent appointment, it's only one game, which we still won. The idea of waiting until the end of the season until we judge him can work in his favour too.
But insofar as we are judging this performance, there were obvious issues which if repeated across the rest of the season would be a cause for concern in terms of making him permanent manager.
It's worth noting, but not dwelling on. Main thing today is we won.
I am not saying give Carrick the permanent Job but we have to separate the issues that simply stem from the personnel at hand and that are caused by Carrick tactics and coaching while judging him , conflating two can lead to a wrong conclusion .
Do you think Zidane will ever coach a top team besides Madrid again?
Yes, he'll manage France. It's well known that he only wants to manage France.
Who do you think Ole will manage next?
I don’t think he wants to manage honestly. If he wanted he could definitely get the Norway job I reckon.
all of these !
Keep winning, keep moving up the candidate list
The problem with managing a team for some months is that the margins to work and evaluate things are limited. I've read many comments in this thread saying that it shouldn't be just about the points but also improving the style, players developing and stuff, which is kind of unfair.
A coach in his position can change, tweak, choose, motivate and add some details, but expecting an interim coach to build or develop something after taking over in mid season is fantasy.
We've been carrying the same problems when dictating in games for more than a decade, being either dull or too open if we take more risks, and it's not going to get fixed in some months. It can get masked under high levels of intensity, confidence, motivation with a World Cup ahead, added to the privilege of having energy in the tank 'thanks' to Ineos and Amorim. But expecting a solid evolution in any way is setting the bar too high.
Carrick's job should be about results which implies not leaving the tracks with experiments, adapting to the players and finding the quickest route to win games, keeping us well organized and boosting the mentioned variables, which he's doing brilliantly as he did in his previous stint.
But next season would represent a bigger challenge, trying to compete while introducing new elements in play, bedding new players in, dealing with a more congested calendar and some inevitable bumps in the road, and a sense of routine replacing the current enthusiasm, all under the pressures of this club. Teams will study what he does and will prepare for it, needing a response. Is he flexible enough, inventive? It's a huge job ahead and these next 5 months as interim trying to get results won't tell us much about his capabilities to lead us in the long run.
We had ETH getting a respectable 3rd position and a cup by being pragmatic in his first season, but when he started 'building' in his second season we were all over the place almost from start to finish. An underqualified coach getting results for some time doesn't suddenly become qualified for the job. Especially when it comes to winning the league which should be the goal for a team investing as much as we do, and even more now without any freak getting close to 100 points.
Obviously you can't quantify the quality of a coach nor predict the level of success at some specific place, but you can easily guess that someone like Enrique would get more from this team than Harry Redknapp or Taiwan U21's coach. Empty mantras like "there are no guarantees anywhere" and "everything is possible" sound nice for a Nike advert but make it look as if every choice is the same and give you the same percentages which is obviously false.
The club should aim for the best at every level and start the search of a top coach now while Carrick gets us the best possible results. There is nothing else to see here and we shouldn't be waiting for anything. Clubs are moving already going by reports and we should be doing the same.
A coach in his position can change, tweak, choose, motivate and add some details, but expecting an interim coach to build or develop something after taking over in mid season is fantasy.
We've been carrying the same problems when dictating in games for more than a decade, being either dull or too open if we take more risks, and it's not going to get fixed in some months. It can get masked under high levels of intensity, confidence, motivation with a World Cup ahead, added to the privilege of having energy in the tank 'thanks' to Ineos and Amorim. But expecting a solid evolution in any way is setting the bar too high.
Carrick's job should be about results which implies not leaving the tracks with experiments, adapting to the players and finding the quickest route to win games, keeping us well organized and boosting the mentioned variables, which he's doing brilliantly as he did in his previous stint.
But next season would represent a bigger challenge, trying to compete while introducing new elements in play, bedding new players in, dealing with a more congested calendar and some inevitable bumps in the road, and a sense of routine replacing the current enthusiasm, all under the pressures of this club. Teams will study what he does and will prepare for it, needing a response. Is he flexible enough, inventive? It's a huge job ahead and these next 5 months as interim trying to get results won't tell us much about his capabilities to lead us in the long run.
We had ETH getting a respectable 3rd position and a cup by being pragmatic in his first season, but when he started 'building' in his second season we were all over the place almost from start to finish. An underqualified coach getting results for some time doesn't suddenly become qualified for the job. Especially when it comes to winning the league which should be the goal for a team investing as much as we do, and even more now without any freak getting close to 100 points.
Obviously you can't quantify the quality of a coach nor predict the level of success at some specific place, but you can easily guess that someone like Enrique would get more from this team than Harry Redknapp or Taiwan U21's coach. Empty mantras like "there are no guarantees anywhere" and "everything is possible" sound nice for a Nike advert but make it look as if every choice is the same and give you the same percentages which is obviously false.
The club should aim for the best at every level and start the search of a top coach now while Carrick gets us the best possible results. There is nothing else to see here and we shouldn't be waiting for anything. Clubs are moving already going by reports and we should be doing the same.
You say that but I could easily see Enrique coming in and us struggling to impose ourselves because of our lack of midfield anyways.
4 down...
He was at the Turkish club and wanted the interim job. You’re having a laugh if you think he doesn’t want a managerial job.
Title race is not over. If we can get 13 points out of the next 5 games and Arsenal have some wobbles hopefully against Spurs and Chelsea then we could come in strong over the home stretch
I think if Carrick continues this way and at the very end of the season (no Ole mistake this time!) he should at least be in contention but I think you hit the nail on the head with the EtH comment, and also Ole and Jose both said in their third season they tried to change us and push us further up the pitch and it failed.
We look a lot more solid and comfortable at the moment though . Will it last? I’m not sure, I hope so. He’s doing a very good job so far.
Would need 15 to cover the gap due to earlier points dropped. Basically, for that to happen, given all else, we need to win every game with scope for maybe one draw.
Unlikely, but you never know. We play again on Tuesday I think. We've had a week to prepare for games (four) under Carrick, this one is different again. Win against them, five out five, and confidence will be even fecking higher.
Anyway, I have an eye on Arsenal but we'd need basically a perfect record to pull that back re the points they're likely to drop and games remaining.
Or, they've dropped points in 8/24. We'd need them to drop at least 6-7 (games in draws/defeats) in the next 14 and also basically win every game. That's not even remotely easy.
Let's not be ridiculous, now.
Jesus… You guys are getting carried away…
Feck it. I’m in, even if just for this weekend! If there’s anyone who can do it in style, it’s us!!
I was thinking this after the Arsenal game, but we’re just too far back. If we were placed where City are, I’d back us. One game a week is such a huge advantage. Bar injury disasters, I think we’ll finish second though. Can City going all in on the cups if Arsenal disappear out of sight.
Arsenal are too consistent and solid to drop the required points.
2nd place is a possibility if City continue to misfire but I think we'll finish 3rd/4th as Villa fade and Chelsea or Liverpool have a good run.
I've seen enough to consider we'll win the majority of games remaining this season but it's near impossible to win every game in the PL
Shame we're not in the Europa League this season, we'd be strong favourites.
I'm still not sure what we should do next season, but I think a key signing was Holland. I'm not sure what other managers are out there, but as a coach, Holland has great credentials and if he is part of the Carrick package, I think we should seriously consider them in the full time role.
2nd place is a possibility if City continue to misfire but I think we'll finish 3rd/4th as Villa fade and Chelsea or Liverpool have a good run.
I've seen enough to consider we'll win the majority of games remaining this season but it's near impossible to win every game in the PL
Shame we're not in the Europa League this season, we'd be strong favourites.
I'm still not sure what we should do next season, but I think a key signing was Holland. I'm not sure what other managers are out there, but as a coach, Holland has great credentials and if he is part of the Carrick package, I think we should seriously consider them in the full time role.
I must say, there were periods of this game where I really enjoyed watching us. Even at 0-0 when the result was still totally up in the air. There was a period of one touch play, I think involving Cunha Bruno & Mainoo which was just beautiful football.
We’re just so much more watchable than we’ve been under the previous two managers
We’re just so much more watchable than we’ve been under the previous two managers
It almost feels as if we're taking the piss at times, it's that good. Especially near the by-lines where it seems we might be trapped and then a few passes later, we're almost through on goal
I know what you mean….and when I watch those moments, I feel like we can finally put that “is it just that the players are crap” debate well and truly to bed. Motivation/cohesion etc etc is another question entirely, but the raw footballing ability is clearly there
Id say get champions league and also not only get it but not crumble over the line (how he gets it matters too), and then give him the job.
Top 3
70-74 points
He started when United had 32 points and +4 GD
He will manage 17 matches, I think 12 wins,
3 draws, 2 Defeats with 40 Goals scored and 18 Conceded would show significant improvement and merit him being given the job on a 2+1 year contract.
This would mean we would finish with
P38 W20 D11 L7 GS76 GC50 GD+26
Those are the sort of stats needed to get him the job as the Goal difference shows the team has played attacking exciting football.
70-74 points
He started when United had 32 points and +4 GD
He will manage 17 matches, I think 12 wins,
3 draws, 2 Defeats with 40 Goals scored and 18 Conceded would show significant improvement and merit him being given the job on a 2+1 year contract.
This would mean we would finish with
P38 W20 D11 L7 GS76 GC50 GD+26
Those are the sort of stats needed to get him the job as the Goal difference shows the team has played attacking exciting football.
I hope you’re right. That gets us 71 pts and I suspect 65 would get us a CL spot.
Are you telling me 7 more wins and we will get the CL
12 wins, 2 draws, 2 losses is good enough. Some brand manager is not a guarantee of success. Ever. There is no reason to assert that Tuchel will necessarily do better and the rest of the candidates are not fundamentally better than Amorim. We saw how that went...
The only manager I would rather is Luis Enrique, but honestly it is a pipe dream. PSG ain't giving him to us, let's be real, and he shouldn't prefer us over them as long as Glazers/INEOS are in charge
Really no reason to bring the likes of Poch, if Carrick has a great run
The only manager I would rather is Luis Enrique, but honestly it is a pipe dream. PSG ain't giving him to us, let's be real, and he shouldn't prefer us over them as long as Glazers/INEOS are in charge
Really no reason to bring the likes of Poch, if Carrick has a great run
I think the magic number is 69 … points for past few seasons
For 4th place you are correct but it’s highly likely 5th place will do it
In all probability. However, if Chelsea and Liverpool also have a strong end to the season then we may need a little more. A lot will depend on whether Villa can regain their form.
Absolutely. Until we're mathematically ruled out, I'm keeping hope with each game we play.
If we carry on like this, I'd offer the contract by the end of March/start of April. Start planning for next season
You always say that.
I'm already convinced. The board wanted to give overhyped managers like Ten Hag and Amorim years of misery to "get it right" yet Carrick needs to win the majority of the games to even be considered as a candidate in the summer? Utterly ridiculous. So what if we're not as good after he gets the role permanently? Just because he's not as big of a name doesn't mean he's less deserving of the board's trust. Did Ten Hag or Amorim prove they're better tacticians in the years they were at the helm? No.
I'm not saying give him the job right now. I'm saying give him the job even if we hit a poor streak, he's given us belief back and there is no manager in the world who'd guarantee wins in every game. Give him some of that belief back. So what if he ultimately fails? It wouldn't be any different from the hipster managers we had before him, who overcomplicated things to the point of no return.
I'm not saying give him the job right now. I'm saying give him the job even if we hit a poor streak, he's given us belief back and there is no manager in the world who'd guarantee wins in every game. Give him some of that belief back. So what if he ultimately fails? It wouldn't be any different from the hipster managers we had before him, who overcomplicated things to the point of no return.
This is the key. We know multiple coaches can come in and set up this way and do well (Mou, Ole, ETH first season, Carrick up to now). But can you win trophies with this style? I used to think no, but football seems to favour it more in recent seasons. I personally think all we’ve really ever lacked is a good press (and a coach who knows how to implement it without exposing the team as ETH and Amorim did).
Lets get through 50% of the games and see. I'd only be interested in signing him if his coaching team stayed too though.
No.1 Why would any serious manager with an international reputation want the United job? Why would Enrique, Ancelotti, Zidane, or any of these guys want it? Give me a break. Tuchel maybe would - but he clearly has a massive ego if he took the England job.
No.2 Carrick is 100% nailed on. Brexit Jim will want an Englishman in. Carrick will only not get it if they go on a 10 game losing streak.
No.2 Carrick is 100% nailed on. Brexit Jim will want an Englishman in. Carrick will only not get it if they go on a 10 game losing streak.
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The job at this point is his to lose.
If he maintains good form (I don't mean winning every game) until the end of the season with a 3rd or 4th place finish I think he will keep the job.
If he maintains good form (I don't mean winning every game) until the end of the season with a 3rd or 4th place finish I think he will keep the job.
Really depends on Villa if they fall off a cliff and concentrate on Europa League, meaning they come 6th then the EPL would have 6 teams in CL again, 2 in Europa League theoretically 7th and 8th and 9th could get Europa Conference League, if Palace win that this season then potentially 10 teams in Europe which is madness!
All this helps the bigger teams as they are able to deal with 50-60 matches far better than teams like Palace, Forrest and others emerging like Brentford.
I agree. I would also say that we could stand to be better in possession over the past 15 years or so which I think Amorim was trying to do and what we hoped EtH would do when he came in.
It sometimes annoys me when people go on about United DNA and counter attack as if that’s all United ever did under Sir Alex when we had midfielders that could absolutely dictate games for fun. I think we had something like 57% possession against Juve away in 1999. Don’t like saying it but Klopp’s Liverpool could kill you with lethal counters but they dominated games as well. If Carrick or whoever can do that for us it will get us challenging again for the best trophies rather than just being a top 4 challenger again.