Yep mate, I’m in agreement. OP was cooking…
How much trouble are Liverpool in?
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
It's more than that, Henderson is losing his feet. Van Dijk was probably the best center half in the legue and he seems to be gone. Those are huge posts in the prime time Liverpool team and none of them is easily replaced.
I think if you look at their strongest side in 2017/2018 , it's still basically the same 11 more or less that is their strongest side now in 2022/2023. Fergie was always great at freshening the team up and Klopp hasn't really done that.
Just for one example Henderson looks like his legs have gone, he's a guy who's had a lot of injury problems and last season played 57 games. 57 !
In fact a lot of the Liverpool team still look hungover from last season, I think that is a big reason for their decline this year. To be so close to immortality, to fall so dramatically at the very end, it must be exhausting.
Just for one example Henderson looks like his legs have gone, he's a guy who's had a lot of injury problems and last season played 57 games. 57 !
In fact a lot of the Liverpool team still look hungover from last season, I think that is a big reason for their decline this year. To be so close to immortality, to fall so dramatically at the very end, it must be exhausting.
Klopp also looks exhausted - might be time for both parties to move on.
I honestly think it boils down to their high energy pressing game not being sustainable over a long period, especially with ageing players. And Klopp doesn't really know any other way to play. Either that or their inhaler supplier is bust.
Its why SAF was a legendary manager, his ability to adapt, change and constantly rebuild teams. Klopp got incredibly lucky with signings and ran his players to the ground. I personally don't think he has another rebuild in him, not when his latest big money signings haven't been as good as he'd hoped. He'll be looking for his next project where he'll enjoy some success for a number of years.
Its why SAF was a legendary manager, his ability to adapt, change and constantly rebuild teams. Klopp got incredibly lucky with signings and ran his players to the ground. I personally don't think he has another rebuild in him, not when his latest big money signings haven't been as good as he'd hoped. He'll be looking for his next project where he'll enjoy some success for a number of years.
Granted that midfield unit provided great stability, but it wasn't a midfield that wins games. They were grafters who provided the front three a platform to do their thing.
As for VVD, I think he benefitted quite a lot from what was in front of him. The midfield losing their legs, combined with the front line's dwindling threat, has exposed their defence.
They have built up a tolerance to inhalers. And the new signings aren’t yet showing positive effects of the inhalers(it takes a couple of seasons to kick in).
That midfields legs was so important for them but has not been given enough attention. That Gakpo transfer fee should have been paid for a midfielder not another attacker. It's crazy to think a year ago their midfielders would have walked into tour team but this year I wouldn't have any of them. Maybe thiago to compete with Eriksen.
That’s the most praise one of my OP’s has ever got.Nah, their midfield has always been shit, Jordan Henderson didn't become world class overnight. All their creative force comes from the wing backs and their forward line did all the pressing so the midfield have always been the cleanup crew, they don't create shit, they just play square balls all game and shield the defence. If the midfield line got broke, the defence would be relied upon to win their 1v1's.
What we're seeing now is the forward line not doing this job and the defence not doing theirs. The midfield has always been this shite, just well hidden. And Jude Bellingham won't fix this mess because they wouldn't use him correctly anyway.
Why on earth would Utd fans want Klopp to leave LFC now that he's entered 'the Dortmund/7th season/Can't Refresh Squad' phase?
This is the equivalent of our Ole heaven now, right?
It was observation of mine, not necessarily a "want" buddyWhy on earth would Utd fans want Klopp to leave LFC now that he's entered 'the Dortmund/7th season/Can't Refresh Squad' phase?
This is the equivalent of our Ole heaven now, right?
In answer to the OP "How much trouble are Liverpool in?" Not enough, they should be below Everton in the table and getting relegated!!
Didn't freshen up enough and Mane was a massive loss for what he could do in final third.
If Jota and Diaz had been available for most of the season they'd have picked up points but injuries are part and parcel for any team in a season (just ask Chelsea).
Go back two years and they were in similar state but rallied and then did very well last year but going to have to sign 2-3 top quality players to come close.
Just thinking dropping Bellingham into the midfield is going to solve everything is a little bit optimistic I think.
If Jota and Diaz had been available for most of the season they'd have picked up points but injuries are part and parcel for any team in a season (just ask Chelsea).
Go back two years and they were in similar state but rallied and then did very well last year but going to have to sign 2-3 top quality players to come close.
Just thinking dropping Bellingham into the midfield is going to solve everything is a little bit optimistic I think.
To be fair, it looks prescient by now... so long as they don't rally and win big ears.
He meant meth.
Never, never enough. More please, with some hot cheese...
the drop off in intensity can only be explained two ways, and I’m being deadly serious about this.
1. their motivation levels have fallen off a cliff
2. They are no longer taking PED’s at the level they once were.
As others have said they are a team in transition with multiple problems. The workhorses of their midfield i.e. henderson, winjaldum who covered for when trent and robertson bombed forward, have either left or are way past their prime.
Klopp for some reason is targeting a different type of midfielder than trying to find like for like replacements for them. Harvey Elliot, Thiago are a different profile. More schemers and technical than carthorses. Liverpool have been linked with Nunes at Wolves for example who again is nothing like Henderson or Winjaldum.
You'd have thought someone lile Caciedo from brighton or declan rice would be better fit for their midfield. Doing the hard yards and dirty work so the fullbacks can bomb forwards and supply crosses etc. Glad we got casemiro and they didnt as he would have been ideal for them as well.
VVD hasnt been the same since he came back from his ACL, few players come back the same or better than pre ACL injury.
Firmino, who was a key player at their peak, needs replacing. I think Kai Havertz (badly misued by chelsea) would be an ideal replacement for firmino. He could link the midfield and attack just like firmino did. However with the signing of darwin nunez (big target man), klopp seems to be going away from a template that served him so well. Which is probably evidenced by the schemers in midfield or the ones hes trying to bring in.
Changing the midfield dynamic, will affect the fullbacks, so you would have thought, trent and robertson would have to change their game to account for the lack of workhorses plugging the holes they leave behind them when they go forward.
Is going to be interesting to see how klopp gets them back to super competative again....
Klopp for some reason is targeting a different type of midfielder than trying to find like for like replacements for them. Harvey Elliot, Thiago are a different profile. More schemers and technical than carthorses. Liverpool have been linked with Nunes at Wolves for example who again is nothing like Henderson or Winjaldum.
You'd have thought someone lile Caciedo from brighton or declan rice would be better fit for their midfield. Doing the hard yards and dirty work so the fullbacks can bomb forwards and supply crosses etc. Glad we got casemiro and they didnt as he would have been ideal for them as well.
VVD hasnt been the same since he came back from his ACL, few players come back the same or better than pre ACL injury.
Firmino, who was a key player at their peak, needs replacing. I think Kai Havertz (badly misued by chelsea) would be an ideal replacement for firmino. He could link the midfield and attack just like firmino did. However with the signing of darwin nunez (big target man), klopp seems to be going away from a template that served him so well. Which is probably evidenced by the schemers in midfield or the ones hes trying to bring in.
Changing the midfield dynamic, will affect the fullbacks, so you would have thought, trent and robertson would have to change their game to account for the lack of workhorses plugging the holes they leave behind them when they go forward.
Is going to be interesting to see how klopp gets them back to super competative again....
They're in full transformation mode so this season is a bit of a write off - although missing CL would be a hard setback. But they're good enough to run deep in cup competitions if they stay healthy and get a bit lucky so it could be much worse. But there are still a couple of important pieces missing in midfield so the process will take more than one year - and who knows if it works out ultimately and all the pieces fall in their place.
It's Dortmund all over again in the sense that they've done a shit job in refreshing the squad in the proper areas especially when you play as high octane of a style as they do. Eventually those players wear down and get a step or two slower after 5 years of sprinting constantly, and that step or two turns winning loose balls and 50/50's into losing them and getting overrun.
They need to bring in more energetic runners that he can coach into good players similar to that DM prospect they have that played yesterday. Instead of they've spunked almost 200m on a bunch of different attackers that don't really fit together that well. Liverpool at their most electric created a TON of chances off of turnovers that made it easy on their attackers. They can't do that now so you're stuck with a weird amalgamation of midfielders and attackers that don't necessarily compliment each other and on top of this they still play a suicidal high line that they can't implement well anymore
They play Brighton away in the FA cup, so hopefully Brighton can turn on a bit of last week's form and see them out of that.
Then it's just the champions league, with a tough opponent in Madrid next.
ps I love that randoms on a forum can see the massive problems in the Liverpool side, yet Klopp seemingly cannot.
Lashing those huge fees on Nunez and Gakho instead of a centre midfielder reminds me of our period where we refused to buy there.
Lashing those huge fees on Nunez and Gakho instead of a centre midfielder reminds me of our period where we refused to buy there.
Rumours they were close to signing Mbappe. how the hell could they have afforded that if we can't?
THE ATHLETIC
Liverpool were front-runners to sign Kylian Mbappe for a record-breaking £171m fee in the summer but were reportedly snubbed by the player who decided he wanted to stay at Paris Saint-Germain.
THE ATHLETIC
Liverpool were front-runners to sign Kylian Mbappe for a record-breaking £171m fee in the summer but were reportedly snubbed by the player who decided he wanted to stay at Paris Saint-Germain.
Kylian dodged a bullet there.
Also our transfer department must be smoking crack. They will literally buy ANYONE before a midfielder.
I'll give it to you @Pogue Mahone you got some stick when this thread was made. Not because nobody else wanted it to be true but because we didn't want to call it too soon. It's turned out to be right though.