How should the breakaway clubs be dealt with now?

[Smores]

Again a reply which suggests you know you're talking baloney

My response is a result of you being agrro to everyone who has expressed a slightly different opinion to your own.

It's simple children supporting City didn't deserve punishing for their club doing wrong and neither did long time supporters who were fans before the money. People have given other cases too, the reality of it is the clubs take the punishment and it's the fans that suffer.

We were all happy City were facing punishment whether it impacted real fans or not. It's our turn to face punishment for the acts of those who happen to own the club we support.

Hopefully it's all aimed at the directors but if not it's just a long line of incidents of owners screwing fans.

 

[Shipperley]

No I think it's you who has totally missed the point but I've noted you keep skirting about my comments about being complicit in things. As I said, where we you all when we were getting shafted by the Glazers?

And again, how is running a club illegally and against league rules, whilst buying players and paying staff with in effect dirty money anything like what the big 6 have done (well not even done as they hadn't left or even started the SL).

Two very different things.

Having gone through it yourself, where were you when Burnley recently got taken over in a similar manner? The whole of football is complicit in some way but that's totally different to a rule-break if that's what this is perceived as by the PL. However crap they are, the PL have their own rules for approving takeovers so not sure how other clubs/supporters can be punished for that? Are you suggesting that Crystal Palace should be docked 10 points for failing to protest to the PL over the Glazer ownership? Or if not, should I be fined personally for not protesting?

My point was simply that the argument of 'we shouldn't punish the players' doesn't hold up when players all over football are punished for the wrong-doing of their club . I never said you should have a points deduction, that's up to the powers that be. You seem to imply that the Wigan players deserve to be punished for signing their contracts like its their duty to have their accountants drill in to the balance sheets and funding of Wigan Athletic and ask questions around fair practice? And if they didn't, then they're rightfully punished? I am 100% sure that the players at Wigan knew as much about the club's finances as your players did about the ESL proposals. So not that different at all really.

This is about an opportunity to move forwards and stop this happening again but you can't seem to climb out from behind your tribal sofa.

 

[TheReligion]

Having gone through it yourself, where were you when Burnley recently got taken over in a similar manner? The whole of football is complicit in some way but that's totally different to a rule-break if that's what this is perceived as by the PL. However crap they are, the PL have their own rules for approving takeovers so not sure how other clubs/supporters can be punished for that? Are you suggesting that Crystal Palace should be docked 10 points for failing to protest to the PL over the Glazer ownership? Or if not, should I be fined personally for not protesting?

My point was simply that the argument of 'we shouldn't punish the players' doesn't hold up when players all over football are punished for the wrong-doing of their club . I never said you should have a points deduction, that's up to the powers that be. You seem to imply that the Wigan players deserve to be punished for signing their contracts like its their duty to have their accountants drill in to the balance sheets and funding of Wigan Athletic and ask questions around fair practice? And if they didn't, then they're rightfully punished? I am 100% sure that the players at Wigan knew as much about the club's finances as your players did about the ESL proposals. So not that different at all really.

This is about an opportunity to move forwards and stop this happening again but you can't seem to climb out from behind your tribal sofa.

I said earlier I didn't agree with the points deduction for Wigan etc.

I also don't understand the comparison between what clubs with financial irregularities did to those who were interested in the SL. Do tell me how this is the same?

 

[LuisNaniencia]

Why do you crave blood? City, and Chelsea, at least did good on bad. And they should be given positive affirmations for that.

What do you mean by this? Because they pulled out first, thus collapsing the whole ESL?

 

[Dancfc]

Unless these people show similar energy to the new Uefa CL plan then they've got no right to get on their highhorse.

It's allowing greed by the likes of Uefa for years that caused this super league reaction in the first place.

 

[diarm]

I'd back any punishment that properly hurts the Glazers. Even if that meant a short term hurt to me as a fan, or even the players who are well paid and can cope with a reasonable set back.

Honestly, I wouldn't complain about relegation to the bottom tier if it meant getting rid of the Glazers tomorrow.

 

[SportingCP96]

They all start next season with a 20 point deduction and a European ban of 5 years along with a fine.

That’s me being lenient.

 

[Buster15]

I prefer a UEFA ban from all European competitions from their tournaments for a year. That way all get equal treatment. A ban by the PL/point deduction would not be implemented in Spain/La Liga and Real/Barca would just continue as is.

Yes. That is my view as well.
Not sure what the Premier League will do, if anything.
But what should absolutely happen is that the FA and PL should insist that every club has to have at least one supporter on the board and that supporter must be voted on by the club supporters and have voting rights.

 

[jackal&hyde]

They all start next season with a 20 point deduction and a European ban of 5 years along with a fine.

That’s me being lenient.

That's also you ruining the Champions League and its income and hurt every club in European competitions for 5 years.

 

[Dancfc]

They all start next season with a 20 point deduction and a European ban of 5 years along with a fine.

That’s me being lenient.

That's all well and good if the same energy applies to whichever two clubs accept the automatic CL place in the 'reform'.

 

[NoLogo]

How about we don't punish the clubs but the owners? Ban them from doing business in the UK for 15 years and/or revoke their visa.

 

[Hectic]

I know what i'm talking about which is enough for me. Of course, I always think of you a spoony wannabe. If you need small words and pictures, feel free to ask

It would help a lot if you could do some drawings please.

 

[Shipperley]

I said earlier I didn't agree with the points deduction for Wigan etc.

I also don't understand the comparison between what clubs with financial irregularities did to those who were interested in the SL. Do tell me how this is the same?

Never once said they were the same, theft and murder aren't the same offence but if you break the rules then you can expect to be punished. Unlike in law there doesn't seem to be a defined punishment for this but if the PL deem you've broken their rules and players and fans have to suffer as a result of financial irregularities, then why should this be any different? Both are cases where a club's owners go about their business in ways which are not appropriate and other people pay the price for it. A points deduction almost certainly hurts the owners if it means you miss out on CL qualification.

Going to leave the discussion here as I don't agree with you and you don't agree with me, and neither of us are changing our mind.

 

[TheReligion]

Never once said they were the same, theft and murder aren't the same offence but if you break the rules then you can expect to be punished. Unlike in law there doesn't seem to be a defined punishment for this but if the PL deem you've broken their rules and players and fans have to suffer as a result of financial irregularities, then why should this be any different? Both are cases where a club's owners go about their business in ways which are not appropriate and other people pay the price for it. A points deduction almost certainly hurts the owners if it means you miss out on CL qualification.

Going to leave the discussion here as I don't agree with you and you don't agree with me, and neither of us are changing our mind.

Your positing makes no sense. You say the offences are different then prescribe the same punishment.

Yeah leave it as you're just wanting the big 6 to be punished regardless and are unwilling to even discuss the complicity of the PL, UEFA and other clubs in allowing this to happen in the first instance.

 

[TheReligion]

I wonder why the other 14 PL clubs didn't rally around to help lobby the league to stop the Glazers take over?

Perhaps they enjoy the hefty share of revenue that it all brought them? Who knows.

 

[Wilt]

Blowing up the Parliament is illegal.

They made a plan, didn’t go through with it, how’s that illegal.

The legality of their plan is debatable, but any punishment will result in plenty of court cases.

They ‘brought the game into disrepute‘ in an incendiary manner with absolutely no regard for the damage it would cause.

The fact that they bottled it does not mean they’ll get off lightly.

 

[Makelele]

What do you mean by this? Because they pulled out first, thus collapsing the whole ESL?

Yes. The domino effect. It is easy to underestimate that first push. It is the hardest and the most important and brave (if you can use brave in this contect..)

 

[LuisNaniencia]

Yes. The domino effect. It is easy to underestimate that first push. It is the hardest and the most important and brave (if you can use brave in this contect..)

That's pretty wishful thinking. The league was done, they just got their letters in first.

 

[Harold_Giles]

Yes. The domino effect. It is easy to underestimate that first push. It is the hardest and the most important and brave (if you can use brave in this contect..)

The same punishment (if any) should apply to all 6 teams, regardless of who backed down first.
Hopefully the owners will be held accountable.

 

[Nogbadthebad]

It can't be just woodward that goes.

Look at what they have done.

The teams meet once a month or so at part of the PL process, they have been discussing all the various competitions and so on for next year. Everton are investing half a billion in a stadium based on the continuation of PL payments, Europe entry and so on, just to name one club, others are also planning massive expenditure too.

And all the time, the 6 reps for us and the other scab teams were planning on blowing that financial model up. They sat there knowing this.

No one can trust them again, it will take a complete change of personal at each club in terms of league representation at least. Never mind what woodward did at uefa.

 

[Enigma_87]

Your positing makes no sense. You say the offences are different then prescribe the same punishment.

Yeah leave it as you're just wanting the big 6 to be punished regardless and are unwilling to even discuss the complicity of the PL, UEFA and other clubs in allowing this to happen in the first instance.

You are being very hypocritical about this situation or you take it very lightly. Were all Juve players and fans in the know about the Calciopoli scheme, yet they were relegated? Were the fans at fault there or players like Buffon that have the integrity not to do such things, yet they were punished?

This situation is no different. The club owners/staff attempted a coup that would have had detrimental effect on the whole sport. They were doing it backdoors, attempted to create a rival competition to the one they are clearly against and to create a rich boys playground severing all ties with UEFA. Let's call it what it is - they attempted to create a cartel and feck up all the small clubs, creating a domino effect on the whole footballing world.

So because they didn't succeed they should be off the hook? What's stopping them making the same attempt in near future when they become more desperate for money? Do you think it's only the fans that stopped them last night and not legislation? They will find another backdoor and go ahead with their plan.

UEFA / FIFA are as corrupt as those owners, but without proper punishment it creates an exception that any club/s can attempt to separate and create whatever organization they like if it pleases their fans.. It's comical and farcical.

You can be precious about it and selfish all you want but if those boards stay as they are (changing one CEO puppet with another hardly makes a difference) they will eventually get what they want and couple of protests won't stop them.

So yes, harsh punishment is the way to take this forward, but we all know that the corrupt guys from the other side won't do that as they will suffer as well.

 

[TheReligion]

You are being very hypocritical about this situation or you take it very lightly. Were all Juve players and fans in the know about the Calciopoli scheme, yet they were relegated? Were the fans at fault there or players like Buffon that have the integrity not to do such things, yet they were punished?

This situation is no different. The club owners/staff attempted a coup that would have had detrimental effect on the whole sport. They were doing it backdoors, attempted to create a rival competition to the one they are clearly against and to create a rich boys playground severing all ties with UEFA. Let's call it what it is - they attempted to create a cartel and feck up all the small clubs, creating a domino effect on the whole footballing world.

So because they didn't succeed they should be off the hook? What's stopping them making the same attempt in near future when they become more desperate for money? Do you think it's only the fans that stopped them last night and not legislation? They will find another backdoor and go ahead with their plan.

UEFA / FIFA are as corrupt as those owners, but without proper punishment it creates an exception that any club/s can attempt to separate and create whatever organization they like if it pleases their fans.. It's comical and farcical.

You can be precious about it and selfish all you want but if those boards stay as they are (changing one CEO puppet with another hardly makes a difference) they will eventually get what they want and couple of protests won't stop them.

So yes, harsh punishment is the way to take this forward, but we all know that the corrupt guys from the other side won't do that as they will suffer as well.

You need to read the full exchange as I'm not repeating myself

 

[Shipperley]

Your positing makes no sense. You say the offences are different then prescribe the same punishment.

Yeah leave it as you're just wanting the big 6 to be punished regardless and are unwilling to even discuss the complicity of the PL, UEFA and other clubs in allowing this to happen in the first instance.

Likewise. I never once proscribed a punishment, have a look back through what I said. Neither am I after the kind of bloodthirtsy vengeance you seem to think I am. What makes sense is a punishment that deters these owners from dragging the game through the mud again for their own ends; am sure we both agree with that. If that involves docking points which ultimately hurts their bottom line then so be it as far as I'm concerned. I'd be saying the same if it was Palace that did it.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

You are being very hypocritical about this situation or you take it very lightly. Were all Juve players and fans in the know about the Calciopoli scheme, yet they were relegated? Were the fans at fault there or players like Buffon that have the integrity not to do such things, yet they were punished?.

If Juve’s owners tried to cheat, and mass outrage from some players and all of the fans stopped it, like feck they’d be relegated. Have a think man.

You were born with a brain, use it.

 

[Enigma_87]

You need to read the full exchange as I'm not repeating myself

I've read the exchange, but my point is it doesn't matter. Regardless whether fans, players, staff knew about this it makes absolutely no difference.

They are all collateral damage to the actions of their superiors. If they are unhappy about being punished for doing nothing or not agreeing to be part of the coup they can direct their anger at the management that did it. You can't be serious that all have to be complicit to get some sort of punishment.

If Juve’s owners tried to cheat, and mass outrage from some players and all of the fans stopped it, like feck they’d be relegated. Have a think man.

I suggest to do the same. So if you try to cheat, but the fans protest over it and the players are unhappy you are off the hook then? That's complete and utter bollocks.

This attempted coup endured for years, behind closed doors, plotted, planned - not even couple of calls here and there. It's a big big thing that you are trying to sweep under the carpet because United were one of the organizers.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I suggest to do the same. So if you try to cheat, but the fans protest over it and the players are unhappy you are off the hook then? That's complete and utter bollocks.

Absolutely, the individuals would be punished and likely banned from football for trying, but the team and fans commended for preventing it.

Are you honestly saying Juventus would have been relegated for doing no wrong as a team and stopping an arsehole or 3 from cheating, like feck.

 

[Enigma_87]

Absolutely, the individuals would be punished and likely banned from football for trying, but the team and fans commended for preventing it.

ok, so how do you propose to punish those individuals? It's their club at this point and they can do pretty much everything with it.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

ok, so how do you propose to punish those individuals? It's their club at this point and they can do pretty much everything with it.

Same as you do with a CEO who cheats the stock exchange.

 

[Enigma_87]

Same as you do with a CEO who cheats the stock exchange.

The whole board is behind this and so are the owners. You sack the CEO and appoint another yes man and all is ok then?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

The whole board is behind this and so are the owners. You sack the CEO and appoint another yes man and all is ok then?

You ban the entire board from sitting on a football club board in future.

 

[crossy1686]

1. Club should pay a min fine of 400m
2. Relegation next season
3. Ban from European competitions for 5 years
4. All previous trophies won should be taken back.

They could appeal but if they loss the case again, should be fined by another 100m.

99% of the people at the clubs didn't do anything wrong or even know about the SL but yeah sure, let's punish everyone

 

[Matthew84!]

Fined 50 million each and that money should be put into making sure all the small clubs that have suffered through covid get back into shape,
Would also have put if they try it again within 10 years they get automatically relegated,
If possible would make it so the owners have to sell but don't think it is

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Have a read about Liz Holmes enigma, of course it’s possible and right to punish individuals within a company, when unlike Juve, these teams have done no wrong and broken no rules, the individuals have.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Holmes

 

[Enigma_87]

You ban the entire board from sitting on a football club board in future.

If the owners stay the same they will just replace the personnel. Like they did with Woodward. After 2-3 years - new better concept and try it again. What they have to lose? They'll just replace Woodward 2.0 with 3.0.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

If the owners stay the same they will just replace the personnel. Like they did with Woodward. After 2-3 years - new better concept and try it again. What they have to lose? They'll just replace Woodward 2.0 with 3.0.

If they don’t have voting power they can’t do shit, just like Liz Holmes (see above) had her voting power revoked, do the same.

 

[TheReligion]

Absolutely, the individuals would be punished and likely banned from football for trying, but the team and fans commended for preventing it.

Are you honestly saying Juventus would have been relegated for doing no wrong as a team and stopping an arsehole or 3 from cheating, like feck.

I don't know why it won't sink in with some people. The situations are totally different.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I don't know why it won't sink in with some people. The situations are totally different.

Utter nutters, Juve fans would 100% have been commended WorldWide and the cheating arseholes banned from ever sitting on a football club board.
In that event Juve didn’t cheat or break rules, that’s the important thing here, some arsewipes tried to.

 

[Dec9003]

All the clubs should have a 27 point deduction, only fair thing to do.

 

[Enigma_87]

Have a read about Liz Holmes enigma, of course it’s possible and right to punish individuals within a company, when unlike Juve, these teams have done no wrong and broken no rules, the individuals have.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Holmes

Ok, I have:

In July 2016, Theranos received sanctions from the CMS, including the revocation of its CLIA certificate and prohibition of Holmes and other company officials from owning or operating a laboratory for two years.

The whole company nearly went bankrupt and is currently defunct.

I'm not sure how this is applicable example. When the CEO of a company tries to pull something like this the whole company suffers. It's the natural way of events. And it's not only the CEO (one person) - the whole United board is at fault, including the owners. Who is going to run the club considering it's PLC? Who is going to fund it?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Ok, I have:


The whole company nearly went bankrupt and is currently defunct.

I'm not sure how this is applicable example. When the CEO of a company tries to pull something like this the whole company suffers. It's the natural way of events. And it's not only the CEO (one person) - the whole United board is at fault, including the owners. Who is going to run the club considering it's PLC? Who is going to fund it?

Because she did cheat, and therefore the entire company cheated and profited from that cheating. United didn’t, their owners and board tried to do something.
But she did have voting rights revoked, so you do the same, the new board will decide, with silent owners.

You don’t for example punish an entire company for an individual insider trading.