How to get better at breaking down deep sides

[Teja]

I mean tactics are useful to a point but when you have so much attacking talent against 10 men with 80% of the ball, it's really upto the players.

Norwich defended really well, so fair play to them.

 

[RedStarUnited]

No one in this team really wants to score and I mean REALLY wants to score. Actually Bruno does but no one else does.

 

[100]

We dont do the first thing you try- move the ball quickly, stretch the opposition. This is impossible if your play fails to use one third of the pitch. Been that way since Fergie left.

Greenwood barely touches the ball. I dont know if thats his fault or the team

 

[Random Task]

Replacing Ole with a proper manager would do

Coaching will do the trick

Getting a manager that knows how to do it would be a good start.

The same manager that has led us to 14 games unbeaten, the FA Cup semi-final and still in the EL?

Did you see the performance we put in against top-four rival Sheffield United with our full-strength lineup?

 

[Godfather]

replacing glory hunting fans with proper fans would be far more welcome.

Ah that stupid argument again. Also no it wouldn't help breaking down deep sitting teams

 

[Rajma]

I mean tactics are useful to a point but when you have so much attacking talent against 10 men with 80% of the ball, it's really upto the players.

Norwich defended really well, so fair play to them.

How many good teams (in terms of players) we have seen to know that this is not the defining factor if they are not playing as one unit.

 

[Yagami]

This is why I'm still not confident of finishing inside the top 4. It's helpful having Bruno and Pogba together, but we need some actual coaching. I hope Ole sorts this.

 

[AltiUn]

Once we had everyone on the pitch we were creating chances, our finishing combined with a Krul masterclass did us in a bit. Shaw had most of the ball today, if we're going to use full backs in our play so much we could probably invest in one that can actually attack.

 

[aditya826]

Sacking Solskjaer would be a good begining.

 

[HailtotheKing]

How about we don't condense the pitch by laying everything in the middle with short passes and instead spread it. Quick switches of play, make the other team run around chasing the ball. Isn't that the standard way? Overlapping runs. People moving. We really need some better coaching on this.

 

[PoTMS]

No evidence of actual coaching. You will only get so far with top class players without sufficient coaching. If you wanna get to the levels of Liverpool, you need someone to transform our average to above average players too.

 

[Andycoleno9]

The same manager that has led us to 14 games unbeaten, the FA Cup semi-final and still in the EL?

Did you see the performance we put in against top-four rival Sheffield United with our full-strength lineup?

Yes. And i stand with what i said. He is doing decent job lately but he is not good enough. Norwich game is another example. Shambolic performance from manager. First team manager role of Manchester United is not for padawans no matter how gifted they are. Man Utd needs master coach. Who knows what to do in every situation..

(Sorry for Star wars analogy . I am geek, i admit)

 

[MrSingh2002]

We could've thrown 10 strikers upfront and them not scored today.

No movement at all or interplay. Lack of evidence of high level football coaching.

 

[acnumber9]

Plenty. Pogba, Bruno, Dalot, Rashford but our tactics are all wrong by not getting those players into positions quick enough and telling them to cross first time.

Well them not getting to the byline enough is a problem but they aren’t to the level of what City and Liverpool have. And Dalot can’t cross for shit.

 

[manutdrphenomenal]

It is unfair to put things down to coaching. We need players with better wing-play to improve our ability to break teams down. We go down the middle a lot or cut inside from wings, many times. Compare to Liverpool or Man City. Just look at how much their full backs have produced in the past 3 seasons. That would add another dimension to our ability of breaking down the teams. Shaw is OK-ish but you never see him do what Evra used to. Quick exchange of pass and whip the ball in. We also do not have a winger or full back with genuine crossing ability.

 

[TheNewEra]

Invest in fullbacks.

Pep for instance spend 130M on fullbacks since they are so important for stretching teams, it's important you have good fullbacks that can attack the opposition and pass.

Teams can play narrow against United because the team has zero threat in wide areas.

All our wingers cut inside and try and shoot, all our fullbacks square pass back and never drive on and cross.

For instance the penalty against Tottenham came from Pogba running in to the box from a wide area (like a winger and fullback should do!)

 

[Zen86]

Performance against Norwich doesn’t mean anything, besides reinforcing the notion that today’s starting 11 shouldn’t lineup together again. We generally moved the ball well and moved it into dangerous areas after the subs, but Norwich packed the box and defended well.

 

[Adam-Utd]

We just don't use the wide space anywhere near effectively enough. We take too many touches, make no runs in behind the defence to get behind them.

Instead it's very amateur in the sense that we just throw bodies into the middle and hope for the best.

When you look at how City break teams down that do that, they will score 4-5. Burnley recently was a great example of that.

If we make more runs like Pogba did in the 90th minute (along the 6 yard box line inside the fullback) we will get behind them a lot more often.

 

[DevilRed]

Performance against Norwich doesn’t mean anything, besides reinforcing the notion that today’s starting 11 shouldn’t lineup together again. We generally moved the ball well and moved it into dangerous areas after the subs, but Norwich packed the box and defended well.

We made some chances against them that probably should have been finished if not for krul heroics again.

There are still some weak links in the squad for sure (Lingard, Mata) but the general performance level is much better. We are definitely more solid defensively and are starting to create more chances even when teams pack the box.

I feel like we are a right winger (Sancho!!!) away from truely being a top class attack.

 

[Robertd0803]

The starting 3 forwards today had zero pace and Mata went walkabouts infield anyway. Always going to be difficult with that set up to begin with.

 

[manutdrphenomenal]

Invest in fullbacks.

Pep for instance spend 130M on fullbacks since they are so important for stretching teams, it's important you have good fullbacks that can attack the opposition and pass.

Teams can play narrow against United because the team has zero threat in wide areas.

All our wingers cut inside and try and shoot, all our fullbacks square pass back and never drive on and cross.

For instance the penalty against Tottenham came from Pogba running in to the box from a wide area (like a winger and fullback should do!)

Reminds me of Mourinho thought it was worthless for City to be spending so much on fullbacks. He didn’t figure where the game was heading in the next few seasons. Similarly, people complaining about our inability to break teams down with ease or blaming Solksjaer’s coaching are overlooking the influence of play-making fullbacks.
in order to apply intense pressure consistently, you need multiple routes of attack so teams fear every channel and don’t just load middle of the pitch with defenders.

 

[Zen86]

We made some chances against them that probably should have been finished if not for krul heroics again.

There are still some weak links in the squad for sure (Lingard, Mata) but the general performance level is much better. We are definitely more solid defensively and are starting to create more chances even when teams pack the box.

I feel like we are a right winger (Sancho!!!) away from truely being a top class attack.

Indeed. We certainly didn’t look clueless or out of ideas once we’d brought on our full strength side. Mata I think still has a part to play though, not so much Lingard. We certainly shouldn’t Be starting the pair of them in front of Fred and McT, there’s not nearly enough control and composure there.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

This is why I'm still not confident of finishing inside the top 4. It's helpful having Bruno and Pogba together, but we need some actual coaching. I hope Ole sorts this.

cant imagine what they are doing at Carrington every day.

 

[Random Task]

Yes. And i stand with what i said. He is doing decent job lately but he is not good enough. Norwich game is another example. Shambolic performance from manager. First team manager role of Manchester United is not for padawans no matter how gifted they are. Man Utd needs master coach. Who knows what to do in every situation..

(Sorry for Star wars analogy . I am geek, i admit)

What did the manager do wrong today?

Ole made nine changes to the side that beat Sheffield the other night due to the fixture pile-up, and league taking priority above the FA Cup. The majority of that side had not played for months and clearly lacked match fitness. The performance reflected that.

You can't blame the manager for every mediocre performance.

 

[Andycoleno9]

What did the manager do wrong today?

Ole made nine changes to the side that beat Sheffield the other night due to the fixture pile-up, and league taking priority above the FA Cup. The majority of that side had not played for months and clearly lacked match fitness. The performance reflected that.

You can't blame the manager for every mediocre performance.

I will just copy paste what i said in his thread.
Rotation is needed and was expected. But you don't change complete attack with two of them out of form for a long time. Start stronger side and then make substitutions.
Extra time setup was pretty bad. No plan whatsoever. If that was a plan then it was wrong.

You were happy with our ET performance? You think that we did good there? That he did right instructions? Do you have a feeling that our plan with 11 vs 10 is trained?

 

[Beanz]

One day we will watch games without fans hiring and firing managers hypothetically every other day. If only that day was today

 

[Teja]

How many good teams (in terms of players) we have seen to know that this is not the defining factor if they are not playing as one unit.

You were happy with our ET performance? You think that we did good there? That he did right instructions? Do you have a feeling that our plan with 11 vs 10 is trained?

You pretend like no other top team ever has any trouble breaking down a well organized defence. The defence, midfield, link up with forwards were all good and done as a single unit. Once we get to the final 3rd and a player is 1v1 with the opposing fullback a midfielder gets time to shoot, it's on the players to do something.

The movement was a bit lack luster but there was enough of it atleast towards the end of normal time. The second half of ET is when it fell off and it's fairly understandable given fixture pileup.

I don't think this one is a coaching failure - it was just a case of things not really working for the players coupled with really good defence from Norwich.

 

[Random Task]

I will just copy paste what i said in his thread.
Rotation is needed and was expected. But you don't change complete attack with two of them out of form for a long time. Start stronger side and then make substitutions.
Extra time setup was pretty bad. No plan whatsoever. If that was a plan then it was wrong.

You were happy with our ET performance? You think that we did good there? That he did right instructions? Do you have a feeling that our plan with 11 vs 10 is trained?

I wasn't exactly happy with the performance but made allowances for it due to the weakened team. It was to be expected.

 

[MattofManchester]

When AWB plays, we hold the width on the right side.
Why is it that Shaw, Dalot and Williams all found themselves in the box, or in Shaw's case, in left central midfield constantly, doing nothing, while Rashford and Greenwood were holding width?

This, to me, just doesn't make sense to push our forwards wide, and our full backs inside.
Especially when it just means we're congesting the plays and making life more difficult.

There are also so many times that players are open for a pass, that could provide a chance, but our players dilly dally for so long that the space disappears by the time we make the pass.

Either our players struggle with being able to think quickly enough, or tactically, we're so very ineffective.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Ah that stupid argument again. Also no it wouldn't help breaking down deep sitting teams

 

[He'sRaldo]

When AWB plays, we hold the width on the right side.
Why is it that Shaw, Dalot and Williams all found themselves in the box, or in Shaw's case, in left central midfield constantly, doing nothing, while Rashford and Greenwood were holding width?

This, to me, just doesn't make sense to push our forwards wide, and our full backs inside.
Especially when it just means we're congesting the plays and making life more difficult.

There are also so many times that players are open for a pass, that could provide a chance, but our players dilly dally for so long that the space disappears by the time we make the pass.

Either our players struggle with being able to think quickly enough, or tactically, we're so very ineffective.

Doesn't make sense does it? I think we're just working with our players' natural inclinations, which happen to be pretty stupid at times.

I'd rather we had more structure than that, because sometimes we make ourselves so easy to defend against.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Our current plan to break down sides that sit deep is basically relying on Matic/Pogba progressing the ball forward from midfield then Bruno/Pogba to make the killer pass or unpredictable move, Martial and Rashford/Pogba/Bruno combination, Greenwood cutting from the right side of the box, Shaw and AWB with a surprisingly good cross. That's pretty much it. If we keep trying this for 90 mins though I don't see how we can't score at least a goal.

Problem is how replacing some of these players just makes us completely useless in breaking down deep sides. Replace Rashford or Greenwood with James and you get someone who can only work when given space. Replace Matic with Mctominay or Fred and you get someone that is clumsy with the forward passes meant to progress the ball. Replace Pogba with Mctominay or Fred and you reduce some of the creativity needed to break down a low block. Replace Bruno with Lingard or Pereira and..well let's not even go there

 

[hmchan]

Our current plan to break down sides that sit deep is basically relying on Matic/Pogba progressing the ball forward from midfield then Bruno/Pogba to make the killer pass or unpredictable move, Martial and Rashford/Pogba/Bruno combination, Greenwood cutting from the right side of the box, Shaw and AWB with a surprisingly good cross. That's pretty much it. If we keep trying this for 90 mins though I don't see how we can't score at least a goal.

Problem is how replacing some of these players just makes us completely useless in breaking down deep sides. Replace Rashford or Greenwood with James and you get someone who can only work when given space. Replace Matic with Mctominay or Fred and you get someone that is clumsy with the forward passes meant to progress the ball. Replace Pogba with Mctominay or Fred and you reduce some of the creativity needed to break down a low block. Replace Bruno with Lingard or Pereira and..well let's not even go there

This proves two points: (1) we still rely very much on individual qualities to break down deep sides, and (2) our squad depth is still not good enough for rotation. Both problems need to be addressed and fixed otherwise we will remain struggling in the future.

 

[devilish]

A top quality RW + a top quality LB would help. We need to stretch defences wide to create space for our forwards to do damage

 

[ReddevilTinu]

We need to develop a system of play where each players are aware of their roles. All managers who has won Premier League in the last decade had developed a system which worked for the team. We are lacking in that part.

Then we don't have quality personnel to replace quality. Rashford cannot be replaced by Lingard. We don't have backup for Maguire or AWB.

We need to let some players let go and buy from the market or from the Academy. It should take at least 2-3 Transfer Windows before we can say we can challenge.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

The only thing missing left is "patterns of play". We have just enough variety of players already.

It's down to coaching. I don't think our coaches are coaching the players any good teamplay patterns of play in how to break organised defenses. This is also a problem during the previous manager. LVG is the only one that knows how to (in one way) but his coaching is so bad and dull.

It's so obvious our play is highly dependent on individual skills and creativity "Boys, you're on your own, good luck".

City and Pool have certain repetitive patterns when they play isn't it, every game and it usually works. Every. Single. Game.

 

[tenpoless]

Maybe the next time the opponent sits deep, just give the ball away by shooting it straight to their defenders/keeper.
At worst, We'll get a corner kick/throw in.
At best, They will regain possession, which is what this team is tailored to play against.
And then We wait, as usual, to strike back with a lightning counter attack and fast movements.
Easy game. The only team that doesn't want the ball. We don't need the ball, We need the goals!

 

[ReddevilTinu]

The only thing missing left is "patterns of play". We have just enough variety of players already.

It's down to coaching. I don't think our coaches are coaching the players any good teamplay patterns of play in how to break organised defenses. This is also a problem during the previous manager. LVG is the only one that knows how to (in one way) but his coaching is so bad and dull.

It's so obvious our play is highly dependent on individual skills and creativity "Boys, you're on your own, good luck".

City and Pool have certain repetitive patterns when they play isn't it, every game and it usually works. Every. Single. Game.

We need good bench strength to be very competitive even for patterns to be developed. We tried the same in FA Cup with close to 5 players who had played Sheffield United and were later on brought on against Norwich.

This shows when we miss a player we miss the quality.

Players who are only good for bench like Pereira, Lingard, Dalot, Mata, etc. They need to be replaced with quality thus challenging the current first team so keep themselves on their toes. Even for pattern to be developed the fist 11 needs to be challenged in training knowing that couple of bad games will lead them to be dropped on bench.

 

[Greck]

The only thing missing left is "patterns of play". We have just enough variety of players already.

It's down to coaching. I don't think our coaches are coaching the players any good teamplay patterns of play in how to break organised defenses. This is also a problem during the previous manager. LVG is the only one that knows how to (in one way) but his coaching is so bad and dull.

It's so obvious our play is highly dependent on individual skills and creativity "Boys, you're on your own, good luck".

City and Pool have certain repetitive patterns when they play isn't it, every game and it usually works. Every. Single. Game.

Agree. Also LVG's style may have been decent if he could buy adequate players for his system like Pep. Instead he bought rigid, technically clumsy players and gave starting roles to the likes of Schneiderlin, Smalling, Darmian and a past his prime Rooney.

 

[Champ]

The only thing missing left is "patterns of play". We have just enough variety of players already.

It's down to coaching. I don't think our coaches are coaching the players any good teamplay patterns of play in how to break organised defenses. This is also a problem during the previous manager. LVG is the only one that knows how to (in one way) but his coaching is so bad and dull.

It's so obvious our play is highly dependent on individual skills and creativity "Boys, you're on your own, good luck".

City and Pool have certain repetitive patterns when they play isn't it, every game and it usually works. Every. Single. Game.

I don't think our play is based around individual skills at all, we rely on Pogba and Bruno to be the main creative sparks but we have so many other outlets.
To say we all the coaching staff do is tell them to play is hilarious, the difference between this team and the team under Jose is chalk and cheese.
We know Jose done little to no attacking coaching, whereas it's clear Ole has been drilling the attacking side of things.
The main reason we don't break teams down efficiently is down to not using the ball quickly enough still, we take one extra touch every time.
Liverpool use the early cross from their full backs to great effect, whereas our full backs take a touch to set themselves then cross, leading to the defending team being able to set themselves.
City move the ball from side to side one touch at times to find the space behind, we take two touches.
It will come, Bruno has made a difference.