Indeed. Frank O'Farrell had a better first 31 than Fergie with 17 wins, 4 losses, and 10 draws.
[Hypothetically] If we lose tomorrow...
- Thread starter The Azzurri
- Start date
Chill out. It shouldn't change a thing and rightfully so.
You're contradicting yourself totally. W12 D10 L9 "bought goodwill and patience with good results"?
You can debate the state of the team he took over (and I've done just that in a new thread), but there's no way you can claim these were good results. They may have been understandable, but they weren't good.
If we lose, we'll have some more drama queen comments on the forum and perhaps another poll!
Seriously?
We were 19th when he took over. NINETEENTH. In fecking November. With a third of the season already gone. How can you claim that finishing 11th after isn't a good result from Fergie? It was far below the pre-season expectations, obviously but after the appalling start, salvaging the season like that represented a good start. I can't believe I need to spell this out.
And the next season we finished second. In his first full season. That counted for a lot in the following two seasons, that, and the FA Cup run in 1990.
feck me, I can't believe we've come to the stage where we're trying to rewrite history just to make Moyes look better. No need for it, really. The man has done a terrible job so far and it's stupid to dig up excuses like that 27 years ago Fergie had a statistically worse start with a team that he took over in 19th place on the table. It won't change a thing. And even if Fergie's start to his United career was worse - it wasn't, not by a long margin - it still wouldn't mean that Moyes will automatically turn into Ferguson if he's given time.
Naaah. He is here for at least a season and a half. Almost Guaranteed. Especially with the prophets of give a manager time: Sir Fergie and Sir Charlton on the board. Only flirting with relegation could change that..
You might as well go with Moyes won his first competitive match in charge, 100% record, Sir Alex lost his first, 0% record, hence Moyes is infinitely better.
We'll probably lose. Then beat chelsea, then lose to some dross like panathinaikos.
If Moyes somehow contrives to end Mourinho's PL home record, I'll never say a bad word against him ever again, even if we get relegated.
You might as well go with Moyes won his first competitive match in charge, 100% record, Sir Alex lost his first, 0% record, hence Moyes is infinitely better.
Not really, because that would be looking at one match only, rather than all matches to date.
Of course, there are flaws in the comparison, but that isn't one.
Conveniently ignoring we were 19th when Sir Alex took over and Moyes took over the champions.
No.
Yes, that would be the same as judging on every match Moyes has ever managed here.
Conveniently ignoring the fact that the same team was top less than a year before. So 19th was definitely an accurate reflection of the quality of the players available.
Nah, not yet. It'll only heap more pressure on Moyes and if Liverpool win then top 4 will begin to look even more unlikely, but he won't be gone just yet. Unless it becomes completely disastrous, he'll last till the end of the season.
It wasn't. And Fergie, coming from a different league (though naturally knowing the English league OK), managed to pull it up. Moyes took the Champions, and so far took them down to seventh.
Those comparisons are embarrassing.
It wasn't what?
19th was obviously not a an accurate reflection of the quality that team had. And Fergie, arriving in November, improved things. Or should he have made it top 4 that same season?
stranger things have happened....
get a win tomorrow then a suntanned Rooney downs the rentboys - I can see it happening
So Fergie inherited and under-performing team managed by a clown, while Moyes inherited an over-performing one managed by the greatest ever. But we are not allowed to compare how they did in their first 30 matches because the two teams were in massively different places in the table when they took over? Can you see the flaw in the argument?
Nobody's saying that the 86 team was as good, but the difference isn't so extreme that it is a nonsense to even comment on how the managers did initially, as the Moyes Out brigade would have us believe. Anything that slightly questions their narrative is laughing dismissed as irrelevant.
We can compare how they've handled things, how things progressed, improved, didn't improve, became worse. The number games - how many matches were won and lost - is pointless. It's a terrible comparison.
We can but it's about as pointless. There wasn't a sole in the world who didn't expect things to be as good once Fergie left. And there probably weren't many who thought a new manager would so as badly as big Ron.
I can't see us winning tomorrow. Without Rooney and RVP we look utterly clueless in front of goal. I honestly can't see us winning any of our next 3 PL games. I'm not being negative, I just don't think the players available have the confidence to do it. Deafeat tomorrow will be fecking disastrous, let's not kid ourselves.
Isn't the word 'hypothetically' kind of implied by the word 'if' ?
I'd love to see us win, I will shout up about Moyes if we somehow do.
Can someone remind me what happens if, hypothetically, we score more goals than the other team today? I can't remember...
I can't see him being sacked mid-way through the season. Who can come in and take over at this moment in time?
Marcelo Bielsa or Guus Hidding
Two good options I grant you, but it's not something we're used to- mid-season upheaval. I think it's going to take at least a season or two before we see if Moyes is really up to the job. I'm willing to afford him that as a fan. Not saying it isn't worrying losing three in a row however.
I wasn't advocating his sacking on midseason (though I think it will become a real possibility if we lose 5 in a row which may happen) but I don't understand why some posters here are acting that there isn't a better option (manager) than Moyes right there.
There's definitely better options out there, Moyes wasn't my first choice but I'm right behind him regardless. My view when he was appointed was that he was a risky appointment. Would a man who's main achievements were longevity and stability rather than anything trophy-based be able to command respect and 110% from players used to the best? It could be argued this is one reason we've struggled this season. I just don't think I'd be happy with him being sacked this early. Perhaps I've contradicted myself there slightly, if he's not got the players then stopping the rot would be the smartest move, but I just think he needs more than 7 months to prove he can do it, especially since he's a man chosen as 'the long term' option.
It's a tricky one. I've never figured this out fully myself, but I do believe it's similar to what happens if we (hypothetically, of course) concede less goals then the other team.
I make quite a decent living (2nd income) from betting. United winning today - after all the shit they've suffered over the past week - was the nearest thing to free-money you could have got. Hope you got in on the act.
The Azzuri, what a terrible thread. Hypothetically
You might as well go with Moyes won his first competitive match in charge, 100% record, Sir Alex lost his first, 0% record, hence Moyes is infinitely better.
You just know anyone who puts that much time and effort into the volume and placing of their smilies is an absolute gimptard
Hypothetically, they'd have to be an attention seeking wankstain who actively posts nonsense that is so against the grain, that it will cause a deluge of negative reaction towards them. This, they see as a victory, as its the only time people take any notice of them and show any sort of passion or interest in anything they say.
This condition is otherwise known as 'Kevin'.
Disagree. Great thread. We need more.
100% win rate since this thread type was made. Make another?