We have a slow build up style?
That's harsh on teams who actually have a slow build up style. We are worse.
That's harsh on teams who actually have a slow build up style. We are worse.
I’m tired of watching this slow build up style
- Thread starter Josep Dowling
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Considering playing with energy and a sense of urgency, if we play every game for the whole 90 minutes, the way we play the last 15 minutes of games where we are either a goal down or badly needing a win, like today's game, we will be unplayable.
What baffles me is how we play so casually for almost the first half of most games and then continue that pace into the second half. When the opponent scores or we realize we are running out of time, our boys suddenly begin to press like they are possessed.
What baffles me is how we play so casually for almost the first half of most games and then continue that pace into the second half. When the opponent scores or we realize we are running out of time, our boys suddenly begin to press like they are possessed.
Too true. And on the odd occasion when they do, the midfielders have no one to pick out because of a lack of movement ahead of them. I can't tell if it's instruction to be rigid or we lack ball carriers in midfield/defence. Probably a bit of both
Problem is one of that manager is utter garbage, the other one was past it and the current one seems to be past it too by the look of things. Since SAF left we had to replace the entire backbone of the team, we lost an identity and needed to establish one but then we appointed three manager with distinct approaches and guess what none of them were actual coaches, they all were managers who delegate the important job. Why our build up play is so slow and predictable is because our players don't seem to have worked on them, take a look at City, Tottenham look how they play as a team, they know where their teammates are going to be. That comes from training. Even though Guardiola is buying players like crazy, he atleast has a plan for each of them unlike our manager who bought Sanchez just because he was available knowing well that we already had two LMs and had no decent right winger.
Plus the fear of losing possession of making a mistake is sucking out the possibility of an incisive pass by our players, they all want to play it safe.
you'd need a new manager for that to happen. Those things will never happen under Mourinho
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United look anything but a "team" in the true sense of the word just now. Made Newcastle look good today and they are brutal, very poor side. Did anyone honestly expect - as opposed to hope - that United might equalise and even go on to win today after falling behind ?
You need the opponents to attack and open themselves up for quick breaks and counters to happen. Very few PL teams do that against big clubs.
Could it be that? I mean this couldn't possibly be an issue at Utd with all the resources and some of the best facilities around. Shocking if so and it has crossed my mind.
Shocking effort if you can call that an effort today. Newcastle fans must be wondering why they don’t see that every week with their players putting their bodies on the line as they did today.
Can’t identify any United player that had a reasonable game today. Where were the leaders? Where was Lukaku?
Can’t identify any United player that had a reasonable game today. Where were the leaders? Where was Lukaku?
Our build up play is as fast as pogba’s stroll.
Unfortunately we cannot play like that from the start because Newcastle conceded possession and stopped pressing us in the midfield the last few minutes to hold onto the lead.
How can you people not see that it's a coaching issue? All other clubs playing style is due to their managers except for ours is it?
100% not. It’s purely down to tactics. Scared to lose games so we try and play a defensive offensive game at the same time which is utterly shite to watch.
I don't know, it is strange and sometimes it seem they're all tired or most of them.
I'm not saying it's not, just asking a question.
Honestly, what do you expect with the managers we've hired since the great man? David 'we'll make it hard for them' Moyes, Louis 'we had the ball 80% of the time so we were attacking 80% of the time' Van Gaal, Jose 'we have to be pragmatic, realistic and defend' Mourinho.
We’re second. Must be doing something right
Not according to redcafe. We have problems but so does every team bar City. Apparently, its the end of the world for us.
It's been a decade of uncoordinated attacking football, it's been crap watching us play football but I still love United, can't understand why some posters vilify others for voicing concerns.
Fergie changed our playing style to a more slow paced build up to compete in Europe 15 years ago starting when mclaren came in as assistant so this bullshit that fergie played all out pace and attack is bullshit.
When we played like that in Europe we got beaten at later stages by likes of Dortmund, Juventus, Gothenburg, etc etc
We haven’t played like that since Dortmund knocked us out
And while Fergie was here, I remember the zombie passing threads
Edit: should add, in his later years
What do we expect when we got Matic, Smalling & Jones. Need a new Carrick & Rio Ferdinand to dictate the tempo.
We definitely have an attitude problem in my opinion. I’m not saying our players are lazy, or arrogant, or don’t want to win every game - however - do they go home and really hurt when we don’t win? I don’t think so. Do they fight tooth and nail and give blood, sweat and tears to avoid being beaten, right up until the last second? No. Do they approach EVERY game with the same intensity, desire and passion? No. Do they look their opposite number in the eye and attempt to physically dominate them? No. Would they rather score a tap in or do the Ronaldinho flip-flop out on the wing? I think we know! Do they spend more time in the barbers or the tattoo studios than they do practicing set pieces? Definitely!
We need to sign some right horrible b**tards imo. Some real nasty, sulky, horrible players who raise hell when results go against them. And I’m not talking XI Roy Keane’s - I’m talking players like Beckham, Scholes and RvN who had that raw desire that often goes unnoticed and unwritten about in top players
We need to sign some right horrible b**tards imo. Some real nasty, sulky, horrible players who raise hell when results go against them. And I’m not talking XI Roy Keane’s - I’m talking players like Beckham, Scholes and RvN who had that raw desire that often goes unnoticed and unwritten about in top players
One of the key things in Peps philosophy - intensity. We play as if we are already winning and dont need the next goal. Theres a remarkable difference in between Sanchez and the rest of our forward when it comes to this.
Team's work rate depends on coach and how he wants his team to play. For example just look at how different Poch teams are before he took over, or Klopp's team.
Jose sets up his team in a different way, not very aggressive but drop deep and win the possession.
Not saying which one is better but lack of work rate is for obvious reason.
Its the coaches. Almost every Mourinho team ever has played like this.
I’m tired Robbie
I've got to the point where i dont understand why we're so bad at playing at a high tempo. Some of you have interesting ideas, that we need a CB who has good distribution to find players in the offensive third. The number of times our CBs recycle the ball to no avail is frustrating to say the least. But it wouldnt explain how the whole team lacks urgency to get the ball into the box and play quicker.
Maybe teams play too defensively against us and we cant move out. I dunno. All i know is i'm tired of it.
Maybe teams play too defensively against us and we cant move out. I dunno. All i know is i'm tired of it.
I hate it. City, Liverpool, Spurs and Arsenal all attack at rapid pace and look so fluid.
Why won’t we do the same? We have the players suited for that style. I’m absolutely sick of this boring shit-on-a-stick football.
We honestly play some of the worst football in the Premier League and have done for many years.
Why won’t we do the same? We have the players suited for that style. I’m absolutely sick of this boring shit-on-a-stick football.
We honestly play some of the worst football in the Premier League and have done for many years.
All of the above, except it is a far stretch to blame LvG for things 18 months on. "Mourinho losing his way? Poor coaching in the club?"
That is about it, no tactics or game plan at all. All Jose needs now is the big notebook like LvG to finish the picture. He is more focused on being the calm one on the touchline than what his team is serving up on the field. I also would like to know what they do before games as we seem to need 15-20 minutes to get into games or to really start playing, other teams are pumped up your the game before it starts, not Utd. Tottenham saw this and took full advantage of the slow start to kill us off before the game really started.
This all comes down to poor coaching, no game plan not real tactics or a plan B, normally we have Fellaini as plan B now that he is injured no plan B. If we don't hoof the ball forward we try to play out from the back, why the ball has to circulated between the back 4-5 for 5-10 min I really don't know (should actually be penalised for wasting time). Players standing still or casually strolling around the pitch, the pace of the game couldn't be slower. Why are the players jumping out of the way when going into tackles? How come they need to concede first before they start to play football? Poor coaching or no coaching at all.
We do have better CB except Mou leaves them out the team and keeps up the Utd tradition by flogging this dead horse combination Jones and Smalling. Years gone by they got away with the excuse being injury prone but now while fit they are really not up to the task, should not be starters and Smalling shouldn't be wearing the shirt.
It’s not just work rate though is it? When we where getting beat yesterday and the clock was ticking down, where was the desire, the petulance and the nastiness? If you watch the really great sides (United 99, Arsenal 2004, Chelsea 06 etc...) they where sometimes downright disgraceful in their behaviour when things went against them but that was because they were desperate to win.
Also, as others have pointed out, surely it would be better to start games as if we were a goal down and then coasted once we were winning - not the other way around! At times yesterday we played like we were 3-0 up!
Yeah, red cafe xbox experts. They know it all, if it was up to them, they would score 10 goals per game, the Man Utd way.
Having a real midfield would be a good start. We usually have a cohesive defensive unit great at parking the bus, and then we have 6 or 7 players who stand around when we're in the final third. But midfield? Going forward it seems all we do is lob it to Martial or Lukaku. And any time the opposition have to ball, they waltz right on through the midfield and are immediately in the final third.
It's a puzzling thing, and my impression is that no-one has really been able to explain this. I've been very distant from football for a long time, but it's seemingly lasted through many managers, many signings in every position imaginable, and through different formations. I was young at the time, but I remember a big deal being made of Veron not living up to his potential at United, yet that sort of thing seems completely commonplace nowadays. There strikes me as being a trend actually where players will join, play well initially and look like really top footballers for a short period, but then tail off quite quickly and start to perhaps lack confidence in their own expressiveness on the pitch. Kagawa was like this, and even Van Persie went through a massive dry spell in his first season. People were really praising Matic when he first arrived, but now... not so much. It's like there is an established pattern of behaviour that players sink into shortly after they join, regardless of position, manager or formation - like pouring a teaspoon of boiling water into a glass of water that's just been in the fridge...
There's a lot of talk of getting the right formation, and playing players in the correct position, but there comes a point I suppose when you have to ask why all of this should require such a level of perfection. The classic example to discuss is the 2-0 game against Arsenal where United fielded about 7 or 8 defenders, and another is when United went through the latter half of the 05/06 season playing great football with O'Shea and Giggs in the centre of the field. Then it got to about 11/12, and this sort of thing stopped happening, which possibly contributed to the circumstances of Pogba leaving given that it was no longer the case that United could throw 11 players onto the pitch regardless of formation and natural position and be confident of getting a result.
Not putting forward any answer to all this, but I've been thinking about it for years, and at the very least it's an interesting situation.
There's a lot of talk of getting the right formation, and playing players in the correct position, but there comes a point I suppose when you have to ask why all of this should require such a level of perfection. The classic example to discuss is the 2-0 game against Arsenal where United fielded about 7 or 8 defenders, and another is when United went through the latter half of the 05/06 season playing great football with O'Shea and Giggs in the centre of the field. Then it got to about 11/12, and this sort of thing stopped happening, which possibly contributed to the circumstances of Pogba leaving given that it was no longer the case that United could throw 11 players onto the pitch regardless of formation and natural position and be confident of getting a result.
Not putting forward any answer to all this, but I've been thinking about it for years, and at the very least it's an interesting situation.
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Except Lindelof, who is settling in the league, none of our CBs can be considered a ball playing or comfortable with the feet.
I think he should try to give Lindelof another chance. Even if he makes poor mistakes, like of City are withstanding having poor defenders so that they can attack better. He should try Lindelof beside Jones.
I think the manger has noticed this. I think that's why he signed Lindelof and Sanchez to try and speed up the transitions. I think Lindelof was supposed to be his ball player, David Luiz / Carvalho type defender and he wants Sanchez to be his Hazard / Robben / Willian type player. One or two players with quick passing / movement and work rate can really make a difference to the whole team. We just have to pray it works as the football hasn't been great to watch for about 8 years now.
Yeah, again everything down to coach IMO, players should be blamed without any doubt but the first person to blame if team is poor and lazy is coach.
Even against Spurs, second half they weren't even bothered to make a come back.
Solution 1.
- Play two of these as our CB pairing permanently; Rojo, Bailly and Lindelof.
Solution 2.
- Drop Smalling and Jones to the bench indefinitely, use them only to close games safely.. hopefully.
Result 1.
- Better and faster build-up play from the back. Attacks starts from the back, mainly the two CBs, since our opponents let our 2 CBs hog it all day long.
- Play two of these as our CB pairing permanently; Rojo, Bailly and Lindelof.
Solution 2.
- Drop Smalling and Jones to the bench indefinitely, use them only to close games safely.. hopefully.
Result 1.
- Better and faster build-up play from the back. Attacks starts from the back, mainly the two CBs, since our opponents let our 2 CBs hog it all day long.
100% this! I'm still stunned by how we keep on playing Smalling at the back when we have Lindelöf who is a really good ball playing CB. I'd rather have Lindelöf at the back doing one mistake per game but giving us better build up than watching Smalling hoof it up all game and still doing a mistake every game...