I apologise Ole!

rotherham_red

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if you can change your mind so easily based on a decent spell of results then I'm sure the opposite is true, too.

Ole deserves to see out the season but whether he deserves to stay on after that requires more than just a top four finish this time. How about we see what he can actually deliver instead of constantly going to/fro on our opinions?
Why do you think Ole needs to do more than just finish top 4 this season, after a transfer window which was an absolute shambles where he didn't get any of his targets? As well as having to deal with Covid and a tightly congested fixture schedule? And above all when this club hasn't had two successive seasons where we've reached the top 4?
 

elmo

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Caf tradition, the jinx thread always comes in before the season ends.

Idiots will never learn.

It's still to early to tell whether Ole is doing the right thing or not because we've all experienced his streaky runs where we go for 15-20 games unbeaten before suddenly turning to shit for the next 15-20 games.

Leave this till the end of the season when we actually know where we stand.
 

padzilla

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It's almost like he isn't as good as many think he is while he is also nowhere near as useless as others claim. The truth lies somewhere in between.
 

Massive Spanner

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Why do you think Ole needs to do more than just finish top 4 this season, after a transfer window which was an absolute shambles where he didn't get any of his targets? As well as having to deal with Covid and a tightly congested fixture schedule? And above all when this club hasn't had two successive seasons where we've reached the top 4?
Ah come on, he may not have gotten all the targets he wanted but it was hardly a shambles. We at the very least have a stronger squad now than last season and probably the 2nd or 3rd best squad in the league, which means I think he should be improving on top four and actually mounting a title challenge, and he should be winning a trophy like the FA Cup or EL along the way. Right now he is on course (sort of) to do those things so it's all good but serious questions should be asked if ultimately he can't improve on last season.

Besides, surely the bare minimum a manager at a big club should be doing is improving upon the previous season, no? I'm not sure how that could be up for dispute, even in this weird season.
 

K Stand Knut

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It's almost like he isn't as good as many think he is while he is also nowhere near as useless as others claim. The truth lies somewhere in between.
This level of sense will not fit in well on her mate.
 

7even

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Caf tradition, the jinx thread always comes in before the season ends.

Idiots will never learn.

It's still to early to tell whether Ole is doing the right thing or not because we've all experienced his streaky runs where we go for 15-20 games unbeaten before suddenly turning to shit for the next 15-20 games.

Leave this till the end of the season when we actually know where we stand.
Just so I understand.

I’m an idiot because I changed my mind? You don’t think we’re heading in the right direction? Or in general creating a thread like this is idiotic? Help me out because you seems to be frustrated about a lot of things.

First. We lost against a very good team. They where better then us but that doesn’t mean we’re bad.

From my perspective at least three of yesterday’s starting XI isn’t good enough against the very best. Lindelöf, McT and Fred. The difference in quality between these three and Gündogan, Fernandinho and Ruben Diaz was enough to make them the superior team. We can question Martial’s contribution but he’s not our biggest problem.

There are things our coaching staff and Ole can do better. Defensively and how we deal with corners and set pieces must be corrected, but in general we’re moving forward, step by step.

There are managers out there with better tactical knowledge then Ole but moving United in the right direction is more then just formations and being a tactical genius. We are on the right track, losing against City didn’t change my perspective about Ole’s ability to turn this around. Patience is the key word and some help from our owners.
 

elmo

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Just so I understand.

I’m an idiot because I changed my mind? You don’t think we’re heading in the right direction? Or in general creating a thread like this is idiotic? Help me out because you seems to be frustrated about a lot of things.

First. We lost against a very good team. They where better then us but that doesn’t mean we’re bad.

From my perspective at least three of yesterday’s starting XI isn’t good enough against the very best. Lindelöf, McT and Fred. The difference in quality between these three and Gündogan, Fernandinho and Ruben Diaz was enough to make them the superior team. We can question Martial’s contribution but he’s not our biggest problem.

There are things our coaching staff and Ole can do better. Defensively and how we deal with corners and set pieces must be corrected, but in general we’re moving forward, step by step.

There are managers out there with better tactical knowledge then Ole but moving United in the right direction is more then just formations and being a tactical genius. We are on the right track, losing against City didn’t change my perspective about Ole’s ability to turn this around. Patience is the key word and some help from our owners.
An idiot for creating this kind of thread in the middle of the bloody season. It's a caf tradition, this type of thread never ends well.

As I've stated, we've seen this in previous years under Ole where everything looks good for a run of games before it all falls apart again.

Until the season is over and the team maintains the form, nothing has changed in terms of us as a team beyond the morale of the players. Wait till the damn season is over before flip flopping over Ole's achievements.

It's ridiculous how so many kept shitting on him after the Leicester game and started jerking off after the Villa game and now are calling him and the players bad again after the City game.

It's literally 3 games one after the other, the caf is mental at times with how they keep changing their mind over this team and the manager.
 

fergosaurus

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No way, you're not allowed an easy out like this.

People who have formed their own opinions and not listened to rival fans/pundits/noise on Twitter who know feck all have every right to give you a hard time for however long we feel like it.

The signs have been there for well over a year, you can't join the party now.
Good thing it's none of your business and don't get to decide. Ole is not Justin Bieber and you're not a 12 year old girl so pipe down and stop acting like one.
 

Sylar

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He's not a very good manager from a coaching perspective, at least not good enough to compete against Pep, Klopp etc. To counter this, we need superior quality/individual quality. That then doesn't work hand in hand with his favouritism of players like Lindelof who are inferior to players like Bailly.
I mean, theres nothing to suggest he favours Lindelof over Bailly. If were basing it of his lineup yesterday, I think thats quite an assumption to make given he seems to want to play Bailly as much as possible AND wanting him to be fit (given the number of games hes played in a row since returning)

With regars to competing against Pep, if were talking over a season, its yet to be seen, but if were talking head to head, hes drawn twice with Klopp and lost once, and with Pep, hes lost three times, won three times and drawn once?
 

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It's almost like he isn't as good as many think he is while he is also nowhere near as useless as others claim. The truth lies somewhere in between.
But he doesn't need to be categorically bad to perhaps not be good enough for United. You can applaud his accomplishments and still think we can improve on him.
 
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But he doesn't need to be categorically bad to perhaps not be good enough for United. You can applaud his accomplishments and still think we can improve on him.
Which takes us back to the question people never answer.... who is the available manager that would guarantee an improvement on how this team is performing?
 

fergosaurus

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It was sarcasm and a joke, I don't actually care what people think of the manager.
Fair enough mate. Sorry for misunderstanding!
 

GBBQ

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Which takes us back to the question people never answer.... who is the available manager that would guarantee an improvement on how this team is performing?
So we can only be critical if we have a replacement manager in mind who can guarantee success? No manager can guarantee success. We have Klopp and Pep (arguably the two best managers active in the world at the moment) in the Premier League and with only one league trophy neither of them can guarantee success. I've said before that Ole's level of achievement does make it much harder to find an improvement but for a club of this caliber is it sufficient to lose 4 semi finals in a row?
 

Renegade

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Why do you think Ole needs to do more than just finish top 4 this season, after a transfer window which was an absolute shambles where he didn't get any of his targets? As well as having to deal with Covid and a tightly congested fixture schedule? And above all when this club hasn't had two successive seasons where we've reached the top 4?
Are we the only club affected by this?
Top 4 and no trophies has to be the absolute minimum for this club. If that’s our current expectations from a manager after 250m(+Cavani) and 2 seasons we simply need a new manager. We’ve adjusted our expectations and standards to suit the level of manager we have. If we hired a more accomplished manager the expectations of him would be much higher than that of Ole.
 

b82REZ

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Which takes us back to the question people never answer.... who is the available manager that would guarantee an improvement on how this team is performing?
So we can only be critical of him if we state who we want to replace him? fecking madness and one of the new things that seems to be done to absolve a certain amount of blame on the manager.

Suppose I suggested a manager, I'm sure you'd pipe up with the time tired shit of how they've also proved nothing and don't know the club like Ole does.

Did you hold this same standard when people were critical of Moyes, LvG or Jose?
 

Giggsyking

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Why the feck do you apologise for? What did he win? The league? The champions league? He has been here for over two years and cant even get to a fecking league cup final. If it wasn't for angry fans like us this club would go into mediocrity while the "top reds" are happy to clap for every result and in no time this club will turn into Arsenal or even Leeds. Real Madrid, Barcelona and Munich are top because they have ruthless fans that never will accept mediocrity. Yesterday was an example to why not to trust him in winning titles. And I dont fecking trust him.
 

Giggsyking

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It's almost like he isn't as good as many think he is while he is also nowhere near as useless as others claim. The truth lies somewhere in between.
Exactly. If he is not good enough, then he shouldn't be here, as simple as that.
 

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b82REZ

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3rd behind City and Liverpool is probably about right for a team that doesn't seem to have the right CB partnership, is missing a proper DM, has no RW as well as relying on Shaw at LB.
Relying on Shaw?

He's clearly Ole's first choice LB
 

Jeffthered

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Your logic doesn't hold as it assumes the we are the only team not adversely affected. I just think that Pool are tapering off after 2 years of unbelievable consistency. City showing strange form again but now starting to surge. Lots of midtable teams looking very strong this year. And United after a very poor start are playing brutally effective football.... it many ways the end of last season and the pandemic may have affected us more than other teams. However what is clear is that for the last 1.5 months we have been playing better in the league than almost all our rivals.

Its a level playing field.
Let's keep a sense of perspective. We are far away from being a really top, and I mean Barca, Real, Bayern, and yes, City and Liverpool. I am not sure whether we are 'better', I really do not, because the whole Premiership throughout 2020, has completely changed things, with an alarming level of inconsistency across teams. How many players are playing better this season, than they were last season? Maybe a few, but not many, and I include the top teams, across Europe. Additionally, it isn't about us being better... it's just the standards have fallen in my opinion. Liverpool are not as potent as they were, but are, admirably, still top. City showed us their quality, mentality and strength last night, and both of these teams have been missing key players for much of this season.

Us? We are amongst Everton, Southampton, Leicester, Chelsea, and maybe Tottenham (who are boring, but I feel have a little more of a clear identity, and resilience about their playing style..). I have no idea how we are going to play. A previous post suggests that we are playing 'brutally effective ..' football?

Really? And where was this during the CL campaign? Or are we a completely different team now?

And this is our problem, and my main issue with Ole. We have no consistency. We seem to be a team which prefers when there is no pressure on us. City came to OT and were on the front foot, and outplayed us for much of the game. They were the more progressive. We cannot just be a Counter-Attack team, awaiting other teams errors to mount an attack. That's lazy management, and that's not Man Utd.

We are second... as Leicester, Tottenham, Everton , Chelsea have been over recent weeks. I still want to see a definitive Man Utd way of playing, rather than a rather fragile, game-by-game approach.
 

b82REZ

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LB isn't the most pressing area of the team so not sure why you're picking that out of what I said.

The fact is Shaw isn't good enough to be first choice for a title-winning team.
Because you said a few things and that was the most ridiculous thing of the lot.

While Shaw will never be Robert Carlos he's certainly better than a lot give him credit for. He's been a mainstay under Ole when fit and even when he's benched he often gets brought on.

You're painting it as if Ole's hands are tied and he has no choice but to play an inferior player, when in reality the opposite is true.
 

UnitedSofa

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An idiot for creating this kind of thread in the middle of the bloody season. It's a caf tradition, this type of thread never ends well.

As I've stated, we've seen this in previous years under Ole where everything looks good for a run of games before it all falls apart again.

Until the season is over and the team maintains the form, nothing has changed in terms of us as a team beyond the morale of the players. Wait till the damn season is over before flip flopping over Ole's achievements.

It's ridiculous how so many kept shitting on him after the Leicester game and started jerking off after the Villa game and now are calling him and the players bad again after the City game.

It's literally 3 games one after the other, the caf is mental at times with how they keep changing their mind over this team and the manager.
It's almost as if we have a young and inconsistent team.........

The CAF wants a world beating team instantly but also want the best young talents but are never patient enough to wait for said best young talents to become world beaters that get the constant wins that they so desperately desire.....very confused fanbase.
 

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Because you said a few things and that was the most ridiculous thing of the lot.

While Shaw will never be Robert Carlos he's certainly better than a lot give him credit for. He's been a mainstay under Ole when fit and even when he's benched he often gets brought on.

You're painting it as if Ole's hands are tied and he has no choice but to play an inferior player, when in reality the opposite is true.
That's not what I said at all. I'm saying the squad isn't a title-winning one and still needs work.

Do we have a superior player to Shaw? We bought Telles but the jury is out on him. I'm not sure what you're getting at, to be honest.

Are you trying to claim Shaw would get into the City or Liverpool team?
 

b82REZ

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That's not what I said at all. I'm saying the squad isn't a title-winning one and still needs work.

Do we have a superior player to Shaw? We bought Telles but the jury is out on him. I'm not sure what you're getting at, to be honest.

Are you trying to claim Shaw would get into the City or Liverpool team?
As a squad player, yes. He's criminally underrated here. Fitness and Jose issues aside he's been good for a couple of seasons now.

I notice you make similar excuses a lot. That certain players are not "title winners". Its such a tired and predicable defence. No club, City and early Jose Chelsea aside, have a world class 25. You're lucky if you have 5 or 6 genuinely world class talents in your squad.

We arguably have the 2nd best squad on paper, in the league after City, yet you and many others keep absolving blame based on your frankly inaccurate evaluation of the squad.

There will always be holes in a squad. When do you stop blaming those gaps for our issues and start looking at the bigger picture of how those players are coached and managed?
 

Withnail

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As a squad player, yes. He's criminally underrated here. Fitness and Jose issues aside he's been good for a couple of seasons now.

I notice you make similar excuses a lot. That certain players are not "title winners". Its such a tired and predicable defence. No club, City and early Jose Chelsea aside, have a world class 25. You're lucky if you have 5 or 6 genuinely world class talents in your squad.

We arguably have the 2nd best squad on paper, in the league after City, yet you and many others keep absolving blame based on your frankly inaccurate evaluation of the squad.

There will always be holes in a squad. When do you stop blaming those gaps for our issues and start looking at the bigger picture of how those players are coached and managed?
The problem is he isn't a squad player, he's likely the best we have.

So you think the current squad without any additions is good enough to win the title over Liverpool and City?

Is that what you are saying?
 
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Icemav

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Let's keep a sense of perspective. We are far away from being a really top, and I mean Barca, Real, Bayern, and yes, City and Liverpool. I am not sure whether we are 'better', I really do not, because the whole Premiership throughout 2020, has completely changed things, with an alarming level of inconsistency across teams. How many players are playing better this season, than they were last season? Maybe a few, but not many, and I include the top teams, across Europe. Additionally, it isn't about us being better... it's just the standards have fallen in my opinion. Liverpool are not as potent as they were, but are, admirably, still top. City showed us their quality, mentality and strength last night, and both of these teams have been missing key players for much of this season.

Us? We are amongst Everton, Southampton, Leicester, Chelsea, and maybe Tottenham (who are boring, but I feel have a little more of a clear identity, and resilience about their playing style..). I have no idea how we are going to play. A previous post suggests that we are playing 'brutally effective ..' football?

Really? And where was this during the CL campaign? Or are we a completely different team now?

And this is our problem, and my main issue with Ole. We have no consistency. We seem to be a team which prefers when there is no pressure on us. City came to OT and were on the front foot, and outplayed us for much of the game. They were the more progressive. We cannot just be a Counter-Attack team, awaiting other teams errors to mount an attack. That's lazy management, and that's not Man Utd.

We are second... as Leicester, Tottenham, Everton , Chelsea have been over recent weeks. I still want to see a definitive Man Utd way of playing, rather than a rather fragile, game-by-game approach.
God you must have loved that City result last night.

In the LEAGUE we are second and a win away from first. We look improved from last year. We are far from the finished article. And no I do not believe we have had an unfair advantage due to COVID relative to our rivals. Its been a completely level playing field IMO.

If you are looking for immediate solutions to your gripes then I suggest you call back in 16 months time.
 

b82REZ

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The problem is he isn't a squad player, he's likely the best we have.

So you think the current squad without any additions is good enough to win the title over Liverpool and City?

Is that what you are saying?
Yes. This squad is more than capable of mounting a title challenge. My feelings have been our potential is limited by the manager. Good runs aside we are still wildly inconsistent, a state we should not be in 2 years into his tenure.

City are anomaly in terms of their squad depth, Liverpool squad is the one that closely resembles a SAF squad. A couple of world class players and then some players being motivated to play way above their natural talent. On paper I think our squad is better than Liverpool.

He has done a lot of good things, but IMO, he'll never push us to the next level.

Still hope he proves me wrong though.
 

Dirty Schwein

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I knew we'd lose to City the minute this thread was made. The OP even used 'Ole at the wheel' in his post.

Never start counting them chickens early.
 

Withnail

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Yes. This squad is more than capable of mounting a title challenge. My feelings have been our potential is limited by the manager. Good runs aside we are still wildly inconsistent, a state we should not be in 2 years into his tenure.

City are anomaly in terms of their squad depth, Liverpool squad is the one that closely resembles a SAF squad. A couple of world class players and then some players being motivated to play way above their natural talent. On paper I think our squad is better than Liverpool.

He has done a lot of good things, but IMO, he'll never push us to the next level.

Still hope he proves me wrong though.
Mounting a title challenge, yes absolutely, but getting over the line without strengthening I think we'll need a fair bit of luck and if Shaw was only a squad player then I'd be happy enough.

Without a quick CB beside one of Lindelof/Maguire, a proper DM, and a better LB, we'll always be defensively suspect I feel, and without a RW it makes things more predictable in attack.

None of the above means that the manager is above criticism or couldn't be doing better. We could definitely be better on set pieces and defensive positioning, for example.

As for inconsistency, we'll see how things go for the rest of the season. If we go on a bad run now for no real reason then I'll probably agree with you.
 

Jaqen H'ghar

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Just so I understand.

I’m an idiot because I changed my mind? You don’t think we’re heading in the right direction? Or in general creating a thread like this is idiotic? Help me out because you seems to be frustrated about a lot of things.

First. We lost against a very good team. They where better then us but that doesn’t mean we’re bad.

From my perspective at least three of yesterday’s starting XI isn’t good enough against the very best. Lindelöf, McT and Fred. The difference in quality between these three and Gündogan, Fernandinho and Ruben Diaz was enough to make them the superior team. We can question Martial’s contribution but he’s not our biggest problem.

There are things our coaching staff and Ole can do better. Defensively and how we deal with corners and set pieces must be corrected, but in general we’re moving forward, step by step.

There are managers out there with better tactical knowledge then Ole but moving United in the right direction is more then just formations and being a tactical genius. We are on the right track, losing against City didn’t change my perspective about Ole’s ability to turn this around. Patience is the key word and some help from our owners.
Well said.

There has been progress, one result doesn't undo that, and no I don't have to wait till the end of the season to see that. I can understand those who want to assess the manager based on standing in the league, but you'll still get many claiming it was a poor competition so doesn't count or that he didn't achieve some random number of points, so no improvement was actually made.
 

b82REZ

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Mounting a title challenge, yes absolutely, but getting over the line without strengthening I think we'll need a fair bit of luck and if Shaw was only a squad player then I'd be happy enough.

Without a quick CB beside one of Lindelof/Maguire, a proper DM, and a better LB, we'll always be defensively suspect I feel, and without a RW it makes things more predictable in attack.

None of the above means that the manager is above criticism or couldn't be doing better. We could definitely be better on set pieces and defensive positioning, for example.

As for inconsistency, we'll see how things go for the rest of the season. If we go on a bad run now for no real reason then I'll probably agree with you.
You're splitting hairs. Mounting a title challenge is akin to potentially winning it. While there are certain elements of luck involved over 38 games generally the best performing, consistent team wins. Something we won't reach, not because the players aren't good enough, but because the manager isn't.

Do you think with the manager of either of the other two in charge of us we could win the league? That's the difference between us and them right now.
 

rotherham_red

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Ah come on, he may not have gotten all the targets he wanted but it was hardly a shambles. We at the very least have a stronger squad now than last season and probably the 2nd or 3rd best squad in the league, which means I think he should be improving on top four and actually mounting a title challenge, and he should be winning a trophy like the FA Cup or EL along the way. Right now he is on course (sort of) to do those things so it's all good but serious questions should be asked if ultimately he can't improve on last season.

Besides, surely the bare minimum a manager at a big club should be doing is improving upon the previous season, no? I'm not sure how that could be up for dispute, even in this weird season.
Mate, he wanted a CB, RW, and LB (maybe a CM too if we were thinking Pogba was off) to improve the first XI. The only thing he got from that list was a LB, which didn't necessarily improve the XI. Donny and Pellistri were bought with a view to the long-term, and so too Diallo - that's close to £80m we have committed on talent which wasn't going to be used in the here and now. Cavani was an upgrade on Ighalo, and a damn good one too, but it doesn't change the fact that he wasn't going to be a first choice player, at least in the interim (and more than likely further beyond that, considering his recent injury record).

We have a stronger squad yes, but only because of the numbers. In quality there's been a minimal net improvement - if we wanted to really improve and challenge, we needed to improve the squad by improving the first XI - i.e. bringing in Bruno-level players who would be the undisputed first choices in their positions and raising the level of the team overall. Imagine what the impact of a Sancho instead of an out of position Rashford/Greenwood/Pogba would have had on the right, or if we had bought Grealish who wouldn't be sat on the bench like Donny, but would be the undisputed starter, or a proper CB with pace next to Maguire would have had at various points this season. Greenwood and Rashford have been forced into doing a job on the right despite the position not really being suited to them. While the likes of Fred, McTominay, Lindelof, et al are currently first choice players by default when ideally, they should be squad players. That's not to denigrate them or the outstanding progress they've made from where they were pre-Ole. That development is a credit to them, but let's be realistic. In the summer of 2019, no Utd fan had at least two of them down as starters in what was a poor Utd side back then.

Adding more 6s and 7s out of 10 players to a squad that is generally a 6 or 7/10 doesn't improve the quality of the squad, it just increases the depth of it. We needed players who were 8s and 9s to elevate the overall level, and for that reason, the transfer window was a shambles to me. Where we are now, is similar to where Klopp had Liverpool before he bought VVD, and then later Fabinho and Alisson, with the Coutinho money. Those signings alone elevated that Liverpool team from one that was exciting but inconsistent, to one that had the mentality of winners. Pre-VVD especially, they were very much similar to us. Loads of goals and exciting players going forwards, but porous and easily got at, at the back.

Re your last sentence, don't you think we are improving? We've already accumulated 9 points more than at the same stage last season, and while we didn't ultimately get the job done in the CL (for which Ole and the players deserved criticism considering how close we were) our general performances in that competition were good and we showed that we belonged at that level and should have progressed. We've also shown a lot of mettle and spirit in very trying and difficult circumstances, which was something that we had started to lose under Moyes, LvG, and Jose. The squad is still young and will continue to develop and learn, and I'm sure we will get better as the season progresses too. As things stand, we're 2nd and well placed in the title race. If we beat Burnley and avoid defeat to the scouse, we have a pretty decent set of fixtures up until the switch to European competitions in February, which should hopefully open up a gap between us and the rest of the chasing pack.

My aim before the season started (on the proviso that we got our number 1 target, Sancho) was that we'd get top 4 comfortably and be closer in terms of points to Liverpool and City (anything that was in the 75pts+ range was something I'd be happy with). The fact that we're currently on course for that despite the failings of the summer window, is a credit to the players and to Ole, especially after the bad start we had. I would love for us to get a trophy as well, but I don't think it's the be all and end all and a failure to get it this year wouldn't cause me to question him as the squad, while it is deeper, isn't that much better from where it was last season. The only difference is that we have Bruno for the whole season now, rather than from February like last year. If that squad didn't quite have enough about them to get the job done last year, why should this one? Yes, it has steadily improved, but I repeat my point, players like McTominay and Fred aren't going to be the answer for us in those sorts of games, but we choose them because the alternatives aren't any better, and in some facets, are worse.

If you want us to be winning games like yesterday's, then we need a proper DM there so that we aren't forced to play two players in that area, which would free up a slot for an extra attacking player. We also need a consistent CB to partner Maguire who has pace, and an actual live presence on the RW as we are currently horribly imbalanced towards the left and poor AWB is left to work one whole flank essentially on his own.
 

rotherham_red

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An idiot for creating this kind of thread in the middle of the bloody season. It's a caf tradition, this type of thread never ends well.

As I've stated, we've seen this in previous years under Ole where everything looks good for a run of games before it all falls apart again.

Until the season is over and the team maintains the form, nothing has changed in terms of us as a team beyond the morale of the players. Wait till the damn season is over before flip flopping over Ole's achievements.

It's ridiculous how so many kept shitting on him after the Leicester game and started jerking off after the Villa game and now are calling him and the players bad again after the City game.

It's literally 3 games one after the other, the caf is mental at times with how they keep changing their mind over this team and the manager.
It's been 11 months mate, it's more than "just a good run". We've lost 3 games in the league during that period entirely, which goes up to 9 if you want to include the CL, and the semi-final exits during this run. It's not bad at all, all things considered.
 

rotherham_red

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Are we the only club affected by this?
Top 4 and no trophies has to be the absolute minimum for this club. If that’s our current expectations from a manager after 250m(+Cavani) and 2 seasons we simply need a new manager. We’ve adjusted our expectations and standards to suit the level of manager we have. If we hired a more accomplished manager the expectations of him would be much higher than that of Ole.
No we aren't, but what I'll argue is that we have been by far the club who has handled it the best. Minimal injuries and most of the squad have been rotated out when needed. Bruno and Rashford are the only players I wish we could rest more often but with Martial and Greenwood not yet turning up, I can understand why they haven't been.

And I think you have misread my post. I didn't say that he could get away with no top 4, but that him sustaining top 4 should not be a cause to question his credentials. Also, we'll likely be going round in circles with this, but it wasn't just 250m + Cavani, Ole did what Jose said was impossible and what LvG didn't bother to do - he got rid of the players who didn't deserve to be here and has built around the young players, so while he might have spent 250m, at least 100m of that was covered by sales. He didn't merely add to the squad, but cut a lot of it out and reshaped it in his image, which is a process that is still ongoing and barely past its halfway point.

For me, a title challenge isn't going to be expected until the season after next. It would have been expected next season if we had bought the players that Ole had actually asked for (the starters at LB, CM, RW), but because we didn't add undisputed quality to the squad this season, the process for me has stalled and this season after the window, my target was to get top 4 and sustain it. The fact that they have confounded my expectations so far is great, but the season is long and I don't see this team having enough about them to make it count when its needed as there are currently far too many holes within it that a good team can exploit. Who knows though, we might only need to get a couple of those priority players (RW, DM, CB) and it could be enough next year.