"I Suppose It's All Changed Now?"

TomClare

Full Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2006
Messages
531
Location
Houston, Texas
A few days ago, I was having lunch with a party of work colleagues, and one of them had brought along his father-in-law, who was an ex-pat. He was the most engaging of people but who sadly, has not been back to England for some 32 years. Boy! will he ever be in for a shock should he decide to remedy that situation! As is the norm with us Brits, the talk quickly got around to football and I discovered that he followed Rotherham United. It was fascinating listening to him. When a certain kind of Englishman dreams of home, all manner of endearing images come clambering through his mind; best bitter, ripe Stilton, the “Today” programme, Test Match Special, Sunday roast, and, more warmly, Saturday afternoons.

This dear man is a good few years older than me but I was entranced as I listened to him recalling the Saturdays of his childhood. Fortunately, like myself, although over 50 years have passed, his memory was clear, but they way he described things was curiously moving. He spoke of sitting on the smoky top deck of a crowded tram and listening to men boldly speculating about the coming afternoon's events. Then as the tram got to the stop nearest the ground, spilling down the stairs and the excitement taking hold as he and his Dad alighted, and the crowd grew noticeably dense.

Passing through the rickety old turnstile at Millmoor, buying a programme from the old man that was selling them, and urgently checking the teamsheet to make sure that his heroes would be playing. Clutching his Dad's hand as they climbed the concrete steps, taking their places on the small terraces adjacent to the half-way line.

'I suppose it's all changed now?' he asked me. But it wasn't really a question. I couldn't help but recall to him my own younger days, and my visits to Old Trafford as a kid, and how the ground has changed now from those times, beyond all recognition. But I did have to tell him that the change has come at some cost. I explained to him that in this modern day, only the most affluent of fathers can take a couple of kids to matches at Old Trafford, and that for a large number of young kids today, attending a 'live' match at 'the theatre of dreams' is only that - just a dream. He looked at me rather dolefully, shook his old white head and retreated into his past. 'When I was a lad, going to the match meant everything' he said. 'We used to live for Saturday afternoons.'

Over the last few days, I've thought a lot about what this chap had to say. Saturday afternoon to my way of thinking has now been tossed into the dustbin of history. Forgive me for saying this, but that has to be some kind of a disgrace. This is certainly not a knee-jerk reaction to change - but in a way, is essentially a plea for the ordinary grass roots supporter to have his or her voice heard. Without doubt, the arrival of the Premiership, and Sky Television has irrevocably altered the character of our national game, and in a small yet damaging fashion, the very fabric of our national life.

For me, since the inception of the Premiership, the ordinary, grass roots fan has been sold down the river. The Chairmen, plc's, and television execs, care not one iota about the genuine fans. The grass roots supporter was always viewed by these people as somewhat of a problem, but today, they are now a decided nuisance. They sang when they were winning, wept when they lost, and when things were not going too well, gave the Board a really hard time, sometimes to the effect that they did force change. They were not prawn-sandwich people, nor did they fit the AB1 Bill, and were not advertiser friendly. Unfortunately, they were the kind of people that the powers that be, have spent the past decade or so desperately trying to discourage. In short, they were Saturday people. I think it's true to say that we now have a generation that have grown up to be Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday people!

A lot of changes have been forced upon the football fan in a relatively short space of time. Changes that are certainly unfair and also costly, not only to the fan, but also to industry. Fans have to travel long distances for games through the week, incurring great expense, and also for a lot of them, necessitating time off work to negotiate that travel. Even traveling on Sundays can be a problem especially when kick-offs are scheduled for noon. Trains are no more than rumours, while the motorways are mostly given over to Sir Robert McAlpine's men! To make sure that they get there on time, a lot opt to travel through the night - returning is somewhat different. Do the plc's, Boards, television people care? Not on your life - and why? Because to them the genuine grass roots fan doesn't matter anymore - they are found to be irksome, irrelevant.

Realistically, the suits make millions by pushing their product on pay-per-view, and much prefer an impotent, invisible audience, paying whatever it is to view a match, to a raucous band of genuine fans who would much rather have their voices heard than their cheques counted! Unfortunately today, if you want to understand the English game at its highest level, then you have to realize that the game is now organized shamelessly and exclusively, for the benefit of its television paymasters.

And yet again, I suppose that we shouldn't really blame the television companies. They exist to make profits for shareholders - the long term interests of English football are certainly of no consequence to them. As for the needless discomfort and increasing disillusion of the genuine fan, well these are only small matters of indifference to people who understand only ratings and balance sheets.

No, to be honest, I think that the blame lies squarely and indisputably with the F.A. and its shrill, arrogant offspring, the Premier League. Yes, we did want the F.A. to act on behalf of football, for the people who love it most dearly and for the besotted fans that follow it most fervently. But what did they do? They salivated at the sight of a cheque and sold themselves to a bunch of people who know nothing about football but a good deal about running television companies. In doing so, they killed off the traditional English Saturday afternoon, and much more besides.

I hark back to the old grey haired man's words: 'I suppose it's all changed now?' Indeed it has - a great deal more than he, or the present day generation will ever know.
 

manxmanc

Full Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
8,661
Location
IOM
Another good read Tom, wish I'd of had a chance to live in the era on the 'Saturday' afternoon game.

It is true Sky/Corporations are destroying football for the ordinary fan
 

Barry Red

Full Member
Joined
May 27, 2004
Messages
831
Location
S Wales
You make some good points there, Tom, but there is one thing you've missed.

Most people who follow United are simply not born in Salford or Gorton or anywhere else close to OT, and they do not live within easy travelling distance of OT. In fact the 70,000 or so who pack into OT are (depending upon which set of figures you believe) only between 0.001% and 1% of United's global fan base. And even those who are in a geographically convenient situation aren't always in a financial position to go to home matches (and don't get me started on ticketing!!).......

Therefore the vast majority will never visit OT - I make no judgement comment on that, it is merely a statement of fact to support my contention that most United fans actually support two teams - United, and a team (could be amateur, semi-pro or pro) in their own area/locality/country. I would further argue that this is equally true for Liverpool, Celtic, Real Madrid, Barcelona and other major clubs.

Those of us who fall into this category tend to get our 'live football' at a much lower level. We watch our sons play in the junior leagues, we watch our home town team in the lower leagues, maybe some of us even play oureselves. Our 'quality football' is, regrettably, limited to United matches on the TV, but we have come to terms with that and by and large, we manage quite well.
 

Beevio

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 18, 2006
Messages
353
Location
Manchester la la la
To be fair football is just reflecting society - society has changed massively in that time.... the rise of corporations have been destroying our society and culture a lot longer than they have been destroying football (if that is indeed the stance you take)

Having said this society has always been changing, just now a little quicker than it used to. I garuntee you when the majority of youngsters on here get old and grey they will say the exact same things as the generation the man you're speaking of did.

Who knows what the world will be like then - bear in mind oil reserves will have passed their peak etc, capitalism if still around will have been through major reform I expect. In short, things for us haven't stopped changing yet and they wont until the day the last human takes his last steps on this earth.

Not nescesarily a bad thing though!
 

Don't Kill Bill

Full Member
Joined
May 14, 2006
Messages
5,668
Well Rotherham still have a rickerty old stand,they just don't own it or their ground or training ground.
 

TomClare

Full Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2006
Messages
531
Location
Houston, Texas
Barry Red said:
You make some good points there, Tom, but there is one thing you've missed.

Most people who follow United are simply not born in Salford or Gorton or anywhere else close to OT, and they do not live within easy travelling distance of OT. In fact the 70,000 or so who pack into OT are (depending upon which set of figures you believe) only between 0.001% and 1% of United's global fan base. And even those who are in a geographically convenient situation aren't always in a financial position to go to home matches (and don't get me started on ticketing!!).......

Therefore the vast majority will never visit OT - I make no judgement comment on that, it is merely a statement of fact to support my contention that most United fans actually support two teams - United, and a team (could be amateur, semi-pro or pro) in their own area/locality/country. I would further argue that this is equally true for Liverpool, Celtic, Real Madrid, Barcelona and other major clubs.

Those of us who fall into this category tend to get our 'live football' at a much lower level. We watch our sons play in the junior leagues, we watch our home town team in the lower leagues, maybe some of us even play oureselves. Our 'quality football' is, regrettably, limited to United matches on the TV, but we have come to terms with that and by and large, we manage quite well.
Take in your points and they are fair enough - but the article wasn't just solely aimed at being a United fan, or a fan of the more successful clubs - it was slanted at football today in general, even those in the lower divisions, and also the actual match day going fans and the impact it's had on them. It was highlighting the change that has happened without taking into any considerations at all, the feelings or requirements of the very lifeblood of the game - the fans.

The formation of the Premiership has had the largest impact on the game as we knew it, and the change that has occurred since then, has come at such a phenomenal rate, and is going on even today at that same rate. Now whether this has been, or is a good thing for the game is another matter altogether.

As times inevitably change, football will evolve with that change, but what kind of game it will evolve into, worries me.
 

Sir A1ex

Full Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2002
Messages
27,949
Location
Where the goals come from.
Barry Red said:
In fact the 70,000 or so who pack into OT are (depending upon which set of figures you believe) only between 0.001% and 1% of United's global fan base.
Christ, we've got up to 7 billion fans now?! How many species / planets are you including?:lol:
 

Reapersoul20

Can Anderson score? No.
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
12,129
Location
Jog on
Spot on Tom. Beautiful writing too.

Are you a journalist or something, because the posts you've made on here far surpass any sports writing I've read in recent years.
 

redevil2

New Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
9,476
Location
London
Reapersoul20 said:
Spot on Tom. Beautiful writing too.

Are you a journalist or something, because the posts you've made on here far surpass any sports writing I've read in recent years.
Tom is a writer and a respectable United Historian!
 

TomClare

Full Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2006
Messages
531
Location
Houston, Texas
redevil2 said:
Tom is a writer and a respectable United Historian!
I am not a professional writer although I have had a few things published in fanzines and magazines. As for being a historian, I don't think that I can be classed as one to be honest. I am blessed by longevity coupled with a very good memory of events in United's history which comes from over 50 years of support. My Grandfather instilled a love of the Club and it's history into me as he had started to follow them in 1898. Writing is a hobby and the thing I love to write about most are, Manchester United and the game of football.
 

redevil2

New Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
9,476
Location
London
TomClare said:
I am not a professional writer although I have had a few things published in fanzines and magazines. As for being a historian, I don't think that I can be classed as one to be honest. I am blessed by longevity coupled with a very good memory of events in United's history which comes from over 50 years of support. My Grandfather instilled a love of the Club and it's history into me as he had started to follow them in 1898. Writing is a hobby and the thing I love to write about most are, Manchester United and the game of football.
Respectable, and humble! :-)

Freelance writer is writer! And tbh, I am sure others on here will agree with me that your writing and knowledge in the beautiful game and United are miles ahead of many who do write to make a living.

Thanks for your contribution. Your posts are always great read (and tell you the truth, I saved some of them for future reading too, if I dont have time for reading online!) It;s lovely to read about your stories and experiences too. Please keep it going. Big thanks!
 

7even

Resident moaner, hypocrite and moron
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
4,218
Location
Lifetime vacation
Well Tom, you get all the credits you deserve.

It's intresting to read your posts because your storys tells me a little bit about England after WWII. It's great to read about how life was in Manchester at that time. It's also intresting to read about your childhood as a United supporter. It's remind me about my fathers storys how he was supporting his favourit team (Norrkoping in Sweden).

I hope many of the young supporters read this and reflect. There was a time before TV and internet when you didn't know so much about everything.

When I first fell in love with Manchester United I was approx 9 years old and lived in north of Sweden. Back then I wrote a letter to Manchester supporter club, and waited nearly two month to get an answer. One letter with a badge, one poster and a memebercard.

I was a member of Manchester United. The year was 1974 and I had only seen my team twice on the Swedish television.
 

rrarraroon

youth team player
Newbie
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Messages
3,107
Location
Waddy
I think it's mostly the TV money that is doing all this, as well as the general globalization that TV and the internet bring. Back in the day, there were no United shirts being sold in Asia, North America, etc. No streaming video, no Nike ads.

The line needs to drawn at ticket prices, though. There are so many other avenues of income for the big clubs.
 

Bury Red

Backs Fergie, Yells Giggs!
Joined
Aug 31, 2001
Messages
10,627
Location
Nomadic no more
A good read Tom and while I would agree that the FA let the TV companies gain the upper hand and thus pushed the game out of the reach of many of the Saturday fans those same fans must also take some responsibility for it.

The hooliganism of the 70s and 80s stopped many fans from going, it certainly stopped my old man from going completely after attending week in week out throughout the 60's and sadly meant that I missed out on him taking me to my first match as a young kid. By giving ground to the moronic minority in their midst the fans helped push the game in England to the brink of disaster and pretty much forced the FA to rework things and in the process price many fans out of the grounds by courting a new audience on TV.

Once TV was in and the players' prices and wage demands started to spiral upwards the game was never likely to be the same again. Maybe it was inevitable that with increasing media access the game would globalise but maybe if football's fans hadn't behaved like idiots for 15 years or so the marketing men and TV companies might have started their experiment by looking to sports with fans who more readily fitted their advertising demographic like rugby or cricket and Saturday afternoons may have remained sacred for a generation or two longer.
 

Johnno

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
Messages
10,109
Location
Sydney
Did he also tell you "I remember my very first Werthers Original my grandfather gave to me and I was four...."
 

TomClare

Full Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2006
Messages
531
Location
Houston, Texas
Johnno said:
Did he also tell you "I remember my very first Werthers Original my grandfather gave to me and I was four...."
Mmmm, Sydney - wouldn't expect much better from there to be honest.
 

Johnno

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
Messages
10,109
Location
Sydney
TomClare said:
Mmmm, Sydney - wouldn't expect much better from there to be honest.
You wouldn't expect much more from a Cheetham Hill lad either I suppose as that's where I'm from incidentally.
Go on lad, it was only a giggle, wasn't meant to be nasty.
Seriously though, did he get a hard-on when you sat on his knee when he told you all this?
 

Derek Brown

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
1,305
Location
Hayle, Cornwall
Bury Red said:
A good read Tom and while I would agree that the FA let the TV companies gain the upper hand and thus pushed the game out of the reach of many of the Saturday fans those same fans must also take some responsibility for it.

The hooliganism of the 70s and 80s stopped many fans from going, it certainly stopped my old man from going completely after attending week in week out throughout the 60's and sadly meant that I missed out on him taking me to my first match as a young kid. By giving ground to the moronic minority in their midst the fans helped push the game in England to the brink of disaster and pretty much forced the FA to rework things and in the process price many fans out of the grounds by courting a new audience on TV.

Once TV was in and the players' prices and wage demands started to spiral upwards the game was never likely to be the same again. Maybe it was inevitable that with increasing media access the game would globalise but maybe if football's fans hadn't behaved like idiots for 15 years or so the marketing men and TV companies might have started their experiment by looking to sports with fans who more readily fitted their advertising demographic like rugby or cricket and Saturday afternoons may have remained sacred for a generation or two longer.
Very good points.

Thanks for another great post, Tom.
 

Derek Brown

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
1,305
Location
Hayle, Cornwall
Johnno said:
You wouldn't expect much more from a Cheetham Hill lad either I suppose as that's where I'm from incidentally.
Go on lad, it was only a giggle, wasn't meant to be nasty.
Seriously though, did he get a hard-on when you sat on his knee when he told you all this?


Where the hell are you going with this, Johnno?:confused: