I think we should put faith in Greenwood, Gomes and Chong

[haram]

To a degree.

But in the two and a half years after he broke into the team I think he was treated like a man by Mourinho, or at least judged as if he were a man, when he should have been treated like a boy. I don't think he developed in those two and a half years as he should have done, and given Mourinho has previous on having no patience with young players I think he has to take his fair share of the blame.

Saying "but I played him a lot" is not enough. Did he coach him enough? Did he make Rashford feel like he had his back? Did he allow him to make mistakes and do the things young players do without consequences?

In my opinion, no.

Yes, because he kept playing him. Jose didn’t play Rashford as the striker because he wasn't good enough to, that’s the simple truth.

 

[AneRu]

I agree, though Greenwood is good in his own right. But Januzaj was a higher level than the likes of Chong. He had skills, took players on, scored a few goals. He had a lot of confidence in his ability and had the technical level to back it up. Nobody can convince me that at wasn't a complete disaster the way that turned out. The club screwed him over.

I think not having an alternative voice with authority really damaged us during the Van Gaal era, the man was so specific in what he wanted from players that we lost out on players like Januzaj, Nani, RVP, Chicharito, Rafael etc such that he left us with a thin squad compounded by the fact that their replacements weren't fit for purpose. People often blame Moyes but I think Van Gaal did more damage to us as a club and subsequent managers have struggled as a result because they first need to clear out his mess and rebuild whilst competing at the same time.

 

[Josep Dowling]

I agree, though Greenwood is good in his own right. But Januzaj was a higher level than the likes of Chong. He had skills, took players on, scored a few goals. He had a lot of confidence in his ability and had the technical level to back it up. Nobody can convince me that at wasn't a complete disaster the way that turned out. The club screwed him over.

How can you blame the club for how Januzaj turned out, what exactly has he done since leaving us? The player probably thought he had already made it and didn't work hard enough. He was one of the only positives from Moyes' season and no doubt that went to his head.

 

[Shiva87]

How can you blame the club for how Januzaj turned out, what exactly has he done since leaving us? The player probably thought he had already made it and didn't work hard enough. He was one of the only positives from Moyes' season and no doubt that went to his head.

That is the other problem with break out seasons for youngsters. They may never be the same again.. Does that mean you don't give them the chance though?

 

[Jimmy_Bond]

Yes, because he kept playing him. Jose didn’t play Rashford as the striker because he wasn't good enough to, that’s the simple truth.

What would Ferguson do if a young player made a mistake ot had a bad game? Defend them. What would Mourinho do? Say things like "you always ask me why I play Lukaku, because the others aren't good enough." How do you think think his affects a young player?

Ronaldo was so inconsistent and had horrific decision making for his first few seasons with us. He was petulant and cost us points. What did Ferguson do? Defend him to the hilt, work with him and even sold Van Nistelrooy for saying that he and Rooney would never be good enough. Why? Because Ferguson knew they would both be top players and were worth the persistence.

Simply chucking a young player in the team is not enough. You have to give them trust and allow them to do the stupid things young players do and defend them when they do it. Remember when Mourinho came out of the dug out kicking and screaming when Rashford missed a chance? Remwmber Ferguson ever doing that? Ever seen Klopp or Guardiola to that to a 20 year old? Mourinho would have loved to get shut of Rashford and Martial and replace them with people like Willian and Perisic for a short term fix. He only played them to try and appease the fans, and then chucked them under the bus as if to say "I've always told you they're not good enough."

It's affected both of them negatively. As such, neither have developed how they should have done.

 

[noodlehair]

What would Ferguson do if a young player made a mistake ot had a bad game? Defend them. What would Mourinho do? Say things like "you always ask me why I play Lukaku, because the others aren't good enough." How do you think think his affects a young player?

Ronaldo was so inconsistent and had horrific decision making for his first few seasons with us. He was petulant and cost us points. What did Ferguson do? Defend him to the hilt, work with him and even sold Van Nistelrooy for saying that he and Rooney would never be good enough. Why? Because Ferguson knew they would both be top players and were worth the persistence.

Simply chucking a young player in the team is not enough. You have to give them trust and allow them to do the stupid things young players do and defend them when they do it. Remember when Mourinho came out of the dug out kicking and screaming when Rashford missed a chance? Remwmber Ferguson ever doing that? Ever seen Klopp or Guardiola to that to a 20 year old? Mourinho would have loved to get shut of Rashford and Martial and replace them with people like Willian and Perisic for a short term fix. He only played them to try and appease the fans, and then chucked them under the bus as if to say "I've always told you they're not good enough."

It's affected both of them negatively. As such, neither have developed how they should have done.

Probably quite a bit of truth in this but as usual every one completely ignores that Rashford in particular is 21 years old. He is still a very young player and still not out of the "do silly things and make mistakes" phase.

Martial also isn't exactly a bad player anyway, and is nowhere near a finished article himself.

Greenwood is going to throw the perception of these two off even more as he has something a bit different about him and at the moment nowhere near the same level of pressure. He makes everything look easy. In a few years people will be whining about him as well though as football fans never seem to learn

 

[Maticmaker]

I think Ole is going to sink or swim with his youngsters, he seems at times to be saying I cannot now influence certain players, i.e. they are beyond my influence, they have been conditioned/formulated by their experience with other managers at this club, hence I will concentrate on those I have brought in, the James's, Maguire's and AWB's and the youngsters coming through who I can influence.

Ole knows this will take longer, but I suspect he is willing to take that chance, he sinks or swims! Not sure Ed Woodward (or indeed many fans)will go along with that, only time will tell.

 

[beingshe7don]

I would change the title to
I think we should put faith in Greenwood, Gomes, and Garner.

Garner has impressed every time he's had an opportunity to feature for the first team. He's tearing it up in the u23's. He does well in controlling the tempo of the game. I would really like to see him feature next to Pogba and possibly have a robust DM behind them. I really wanted TFM to be given a chance at that position but it seems as though with his lingering injuries and failed loans, he will most likely be shipped out at the end of the season.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I would change the title to
I think we should put faith in Greenwood, Gomes, and Garner.

Garner has impressed every time he's had an opportunity to feature for the first team. He's tearing it up in the u23's. He does well in controlling the tempo of the game. I would really like to see him feature next to Pogba and possibly have a robust DM behind them. I really wanted TFM to be given a chance at that position but it seems as though with his lingering injuries and failed loans, he will most likely be shipped out at the end of the season.

... You mean that one time? Or are you including friendlies?

 

[beingshe7don]

... You mean that one time? Or are you including friendlies?

I was also including friendlies. I mean he's not had a proper chance to prove himself. The guy seems to have the stature to feature for the first team already.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

What would Ferguson do if a young player made a mistake ot had a bad game? Defend them. What would Mourinho do? Say things like "you always ask me why I play Lukaku, because the others aren't good enough." How do you think think his affects a young player?

Ronaldo was so inconsistent and had horrific decision making for his first few seasons with us. He was petulant and cost us points. What did Ferguson do? Defend him to the hilt, work with him and even sold Van Nistelrooy for saying that he and Rooney would never be good enough. Why? Because Ferguson knew they would both be top players and were worth the persistence.

Simply chucking a young player in the team is not enough. You have to give them trust and allow them to do the stupid things young players do and defend them when they do it. Remember when Mourinho came out of the dug out kicking and screaming when Rashford missed a chance? Remwmber Ferguson ever doing that? Ever seen Klopp or Guardiola to that to a 20 year old? Mourinho would have loved to get shut of Rashford and Martial and replace them with people like Willian and Perisic for a short term fix. He only played them to try and appease the fans, and then chucked them under the bus as if to say "I've always told you they're not good enough."

It's affected both of them negatively. As such, neither have developed how they should have done.

 

[Lee565]

We need to put faith in Tuanzebe, the guy was brilliant in the championship last season and having seen how many players Lampard has trusted in that were playing in the championship last season why cant Ole man up and do the same and I dont mean against minnow teams like rochdalr and Astana, the guy should be either ahead of lindelof or as our defensive midfielder as matic is a waste of squad place, fred looks like a complete liability in that position and pogba is a waste of talent being used that deep in the team as a deep lying playmaker.

 

[Jimmy_Bond]

Is that a serious response?

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Is that a serious response?

You asked if SAF ever came out of the dugout screaming at a young player. That's a gif of him doing just that.

 

[pocco]

How can you blame the club for how Januzaj turned out, what exactly has he done since leaving us? The player probably thought he had already made it and didn't work hard enough. He was one of the only positives from Moyes' season and no doubt that went to his head.

He had an amazing first year for Moyes for a young player and he was exciting for the fans, more than any of our youngsters right now. We rewarded him with the no.11 shirt, only to then have Van Gaal tell him he's no place in the squad. I shouldn't need to explain how this can wreck a young kid. One moment he's dreaming of making it big at Manchester United, then it's inexplicably took away for no reason.

It was horrendous management. If I recall, Nicky Butt apparently brought this up with the club at a meeting very recently and he knows what he's talking about.

 

[Samid]

Chong won't make it here.

 

[Bwuk]

Chong won't make it here.

Agreed. Don’t think Gomes will either.

 

[Bobcat]

Chong won't make it here.

Agreed. Don’t think Gomes will either.

Agreed. Greenwood looks like a proper player though

 

[el3mel]

Chong has failed in every game. I don't think he also wants to stay anyway. I won't miss him.

Gomes was poor today but I'll give him more chances first. He barely played in comparison to Chong.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Chong won't make it here.

Agreed. Don’t think Gomes will either.

Agreed. Greenwood looks like a proper player though

Agreed.

 

[Judas]

Gomes needs more chances as a number 10.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

I've yet to be impressed by anything about Chong, bar his hair.

 

[Paul778]

Agreed. Don’t think Gomes will either.

Chong obviously not.

Sad to say I'm beginning to agree for Gomes. The only time i can remember him being threatening in the first team was the end of season game when Carrick kept giving him the ball for the 15 mins he was on. This season he's just played safe

 

[Inigo Montoya]

I've yet to impressed by anything about Chong, bar his hair.

You’re impressed with THAT?
it’s awful

 

[Fergies Gum]

Chong's shocking miss cost us the game. If he scored that we win the game, but he misses and seconds later Astana get the equaliser.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Chong looks like he doesn't have anything.

It's still probably too early to write him off but he's had a decent number of minutes now and he's just been hopeless.

 

[Ish]

Chong has never really impressed me in any of his first team appearances (grantees I haven’t watched every minute of them).

Gomes Im not too sure what to make of. I’d rather give him some minutes, than Mata or Lingard if I’m honest, and see if he can make it but it’s not looking too good for him either.

Greenwood seems like a gem.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Chong has failed in every game. I don't think he also wants to stay anyway. I won't miss him.

Gomes was poor today but I'll give him more chances first. He barely played in comparison to Chong.

He’s also one who didn’t want a loan which could have given him valuable experience
Says a lot

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

You’re impressed with THAT?
it’s awful

How dare you.

 

[Deglobalise Football]

Never mind Chong or Gomes, I'm fairly certain Greenwood will be playing Championship football in less than 5 years.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Chong won't make it here.

Agreed. I would say bar one or two of the youngsters that played tonight most wont make it.

Mason and Gomes perhaps.

 

[bondsname]

Do everything to keep Greenwood.

Chong's shocking miss cost us the game. If he scored that we win the game, but he misses and seconds later Astana get the equaliser.

Chong is an incredibly frustrating player, that miss pissed me off.

 

[Gloccamora]

I must find some videos of Gomes and Chong doing well somewhere because every single time I have seen them play they look very average.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Greenwood and Gomes are promising, Chong looks shit.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Getting one or even 2 out this crop would count as a result. Greenwood and Tuanzebe almost certainly.

Don’t know about the others
They will have good careers at other clybs

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Never mind Chong or Gomes, I'm fairly certain Greenwood will be playing Championship football in less than 5 years.

That's a hot take. I think Greenwood will have a solid PL career, barring serious injury or something like that. Will he make it at United though? Unlikely.

 

[R'hllor]

In worst case scenario, shit Gomes as number 10 vs Lingard as number 10, rather watch shit version of Gomes, any day of the week. Seen enough of Lingard, same goes with some other comparisons.

 

[Trezeguet17]

I remember not even a year ago there was a poster seriously arguing over multiple pages that Greenwood is on the same level than Mbappe

 

[UncleBob]

He had an amazing first year for Moyes for a young player and he was exciting for the fans, more than any of our youngsters right now. We rewarded him with the no.11 shirt, only to then have Van Gaal tell him he's no place in the squad. I shouldn't need to explain how this can wreck a young kid. One moment he's dreaming of making it big at Manchester United, then it's inexplicably took away for no reason.

It was horrendous management. If I recall, Nicky Butt apparently brought this up with the club at a meeting very recently and he knows what he's talking about.

Given your recollection of his time at the club, i'd be very surprised if Butt brought anything up at all. Januzai was given the 11 shirt long after Van Gaal tok over as manager, and he was involved in our 6 first matches that season, the main issue was simply that he wasn't very good. He made a total of 22 appearances that season, which isn't exactly bad for a youngster. Van Gaal didn't think he was good enough, and that it'd be better for his development if he was sent out on loan to a club where he would get chances every weekend. Adnan insisted on going out on loan to Dortmund while Van Gaal wanted to send him to a club where he'd actually stand a chance of starting, and we all know (well, maybe not you) what happened afterwards.

There's a reason Marc Wilmot, Enzo Scifo and Thomas Tuchel all had issues with him.

“It is a pity he did not show the desire and attitude you need to progress at his age,” Tuchel said. “My feeling was that he never was completely with us, that a part of him always stayed in Manchester and he compared everything here with United. We were not able to help him to shake that off.”

After his first season at the club it seems that he thought he'd made it, similar to Macheda who was very open about it in interviews: " I don't do the minimum anymore like I did at United. I'll regret that for all my life, but I'm still young. I don't want any more regrets. "

 

[lsd]

Off the players we have seen get chances so far i think the ones who will make it at Utd are
Greenwood
Williams
Laird
And
Tuanzebe

Levitt and Garner have a chance but Chong and Gomes just don't look like they can step up and given theyhave had more chances than most i can't see that changing