*If* Milan knock out Barcelona...

Cina

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Who are the new favourites? Bayern? Dortmund? Real? Juventus? Us?

It's crazy to think that by the time we hit the last 8, both Barca and Real could be out. The most open and exciting CL in years surely?

(not being too optimistic, mind. Still think there's a chance Barca could give Milan an absolute drubbing at the Nou Camp.)
 

Pexbo

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Bayern for me followed by whoever wins our tie with Madrid.
 

Cina

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Bayern for me followed by whoever wins our tie with Madrid.
Surely Juventus would have something to say about that? I think they're as good as us and Madrid.
 

Quinton Fortune

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Bayern and Us/Madrid as joint favourites I'd say. I don't even think Bayern are anything particularly special but I'd fancy us over two legs rather than a 90 minute final against them. I just think their defence is no where near good enough.

Dante looks a bit of a clown and Van Buyten well... he's big?
 

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Has to be Bayern. It'll be one of the most interesting CL seasons for a while if Barca and Real go out. A lot would depend on the draw from there I reckon. In terms of style I think we'd find it very hard against dortmund, whereas they'd struggle against Juve, who I'd back us to beat in two legs etc.
 

Sarni

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Surely Juventus would have something to say about that? I think they're as good as us and Madrid.
Nah, they're not. They don't have a striker or offensive players who could get them goals, they'll find it tough against the likes of United, Bayern or even PSG and Dortmund.
 

Cina

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Nah, they're not. They don't have a striker or offensive players who could get them goals, they'll find it tough against the likes of United, Bayern or even PSG and Dortmund.
Dunno really, I think Bayern would struggle against them where as we seem to have the sort of layout to beat them.

That's the thing, anyone could beat anyone, it's going to be bloody great!
 

Sarni

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Dunno really, I think Bayern would struggle against them where as we seem to have the sort of layout to beat them.

That's the thing, anyone could beat anyone, it's going to be bloody great!
Indeed. If all teams who are now favourites of their ties qualify for the next round, the only side who couldn't realistically think about winning the whole thing would be Schalke and even they could knock someone big out on their day. PSG, United, Juventus, Dortmund, Milan, Bayern and even Porto would all fancy their chances.
 

Andrew~

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If Milan knock out Barca and we get past Madrid, I'd say we'd be clearly favourites along with Bayern.

Although I think Dortmund and Juve are on the same level too. I'm not sure how good PSG are at the moment though.
 

Cina

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If Milan knock out Barca and we get past Madrid, I'd say we'd be clearly favourites along with Bayern.

Although I think Dortmund and Juve are on the same level too. I'm not sure how good PSG are at the moment though.
They certainly have the quality: Ibrahimovic, Silva, Moura, Pastore. Can't write them off!
 

Andrew~

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They certainly have the quality: Ibrahimovic, Silva, Moura, Pastore. Can't write them off!
Definitely. I was only saying that because I literally am not sure how good they are, haven't watched any of their games!
 

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I'd say the winners of our tie. I must say I got all excited about our chances after last night's result in the San Siro.

Arsenal are truly shite and I don't think Bayern showed, or perhaps were demanded to show, anything special at all to walk all over them. I saw nothing at the Emirates that scared me personally. Don't think they have enough upfront. Their team is dying for a top-class centre-forward with some genuine pace in behind. Mandzukic, Gomez and Pizzarro don't bother me, and their defence can be got at I reckon.
 

ryan_forlan

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I don't understand the Bayern hype.
They have not won the Bundesliga for 2 years. Will win it this year. They are 15 points ahead and well we are 12 points ahead.
They reached the final last year(2012) and in 2010. We reached the final in 2009 and 2011. Plus we won it in 2008.
We were the better team in our tie in 2010. They won, and well that's what matters. But still I don't understand how they have managed to climb up to such a high level.
 

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In order:
Bayern
Us/Madrid
Juventus/Dortmund/
PSG/Milan
...

the rest

Could be the most exciting final in years or it could be Schalke/Malaga/Gala/Porto/Shakhtar

*kudos to them if they get to the final and some people might still think that's exciting.
 

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PSG are very good. However in the return tie, they'll be missing Ibra and Verratti. But I don't think Valencia will create a surprise and knock them out. PSG also have Lavezzi who you haven't listed and who is doing brilliantly. And Becks!!

I agree it would be pretty even, it's just the winner of the Schalke/Gala tie that has no chance for me, but as far as favorites go, Bayern would be at the top of the list, followed by us or Real. And then come Juve and Dortmund for me. Juve are great but as someone said, they don't have a real striker and the 3-0 at Celtic wasn't really indicative of how that tie went. Juve were clinical and cashed in on huge defensive mistakes, which is fair play to them of course. But I don't feel they're quite there yet.
 

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In order:
Bayern
Us/Madrid
Juventus/Dortmund/
PSG/Milan
...

the rest

Could be the most exciting final in years or it could be Schalke/Malaga/Gala/Porto/Shakhtar

*kudos to them if they get to the final and some people might still think that's exciting.

I think tou have rated Schalke too low, Bayern too high, and am I being silly as to why you missed Barcelona? :wenger:
 

Ish

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@Ryan forlan

(sorry bud, can't use the quote function at work)

Bayern is so highly rated because of their performances in the competition over the past 18 months, coupled with their Bundelisga form this season. They were quote close winning a treble last year as well, weren't they?

They will be difficult to beat because they're such a cohesive unit. But I'd expect any one of us, Madrid, Dortmund, Juve and maybe even PSG to give them a proper 50-50 match.
 

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Surely Juventus would have something to say about that? I think they're as good as us and Madrid.
Juventus got one of the easier ties of the round, Celtic looked flat against them and whilst Juve capitalized on it I'd expect them to be found out quite easily against one of the better teams, I'd argue most teams left in the CL would quite fancy Juve in the next round. Whilst Pirlo has the class still other than him I don't think they're that intimidating.

I'd say Bayern would be favorites, they're a very solid unit and it looked hard to break them down. I found the criticism of Arsenal after the game on Tuesday a bit harsh as most teams would of struggled against that Bayern side. It has a mix of everything really, a solid defense, Martinez and Schweinsteiger in the middle works well and the wingers are very dangerous. They're the team I'd want to avoid anyway until later on.
 

Ish

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@Jaybezia

U read the thread title re: why I left out Barca?

Just an opinion mate, but I'd be surprised if Schalke make the semis as I believe, form wise, there's at least 5 stronger teams then them. (I am well aware that they made the semis 2 years ago!)
 

I'm always right

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In order:
Bayern
Us/Madrid
Juventus/Dortmund/
PSG/Milan
...

the rest

Could be the most exciting final in years or it could be Schalke/Malaga/Gala/Porto/Shakhtar

*kudos to them if they get to the final and some people might still think that's exciting.
Nails it.
 

Mad Winger

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They certainly have the quality: Ibrahimovic, Silva, Moura, Pastore. Can't write them off!
I wouldn't put my money on them going all the way through...

At the end of the day it's still a French team that's completely "new" to this. They barely lead their domestic league, despite it being significantly easier than say PL, La Liga, Bundesliga and even Serie A. Also, they haven't really had the roughest opponents so far. The only "hard" opponent in the group stages was Porto.

They did well to beat Valencia in Spain, but keep in mind that they're only the fifth best team in La Liga(currently). Until they've faced United, Barca, Real, City, Chelsea, Bayern, Dortmund or Juventus, I wouldn't say they've been properly tested.

But strange things do happen in this tournament. In just 9 years, Porto, Liverpool and Chelsea have won it, despite being pretty shit compared to the favorites. This means that 1 out of 3 times a total underdog will win. That's pretty crazy, if you think about it. It's also the reason for why I rate a PL win higher than a CL win.
 

Cevno

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Let's say we got through and Barca got knocked out by Milan. What would be the order of teams people would want to draw ?
 

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Dunno really, I think Bayern would struggle against them where as we seem to have the sort of layout to beat them.

That's the thing, anyone could beat anyone, it's going to be bloody great!
I agree. Bayern will struggle against these italian defenses as usual. I think Juve and Milan are more likely to kick us out than United and Real. I really hope Müller could be the difference, if we draw an italian team. He's the most dangerous player at Bayern and imo should be able to score or assist against anyone.

I don't understand the Bayern hype.
They have not won the Bundesliga for 2 years. Will win it this year. They are 15 points ahead and well we are 12 points ahead.
They reached the final last year(2012) and in 2010. We reached the final in 2009 and 2011. Plus we won it in 2008.
We were the better team in our tie in 2010. They won, and well that's what matters. But still I don't understand how they have managed to climb up to such a high level.
Bayern were a good team in 2010 with a lucky CL run, imo. Since then, we improved every season, not only by buying players. Don't forget, Ribery was far off his best in 2010 after lots of injuries and personal problems, Robben was injured for the first leg and not at his best in the second leg against United. Müller, Alaba, Badstuber are way better players now, Kroos, Boateng, Neuer are individually better than the last years and helped the team play a tactical system that works better than van Gaal's in 2010 and 2011. Yes, we won nothing the last two years, but it shouldn't speak against the quality on the pitch and probably is a huge motivation as well.

Besides Lahm and Schweinsteiger Bayern have individually improved in every single position in the team since the games vs United in 2010, along with a better tactical setup and great squad depth as well. I'm not saying they are favorites vs United, Real, Dortmund or Juve. These teams are so close in quality that the ties can go either way, imo. Just wanted to explain why Bayern are now a way stronger team than 2009-2011 and probably will be able to compensate better for suspensions/injuries compared to last year's CL final.
 

AngeloHenriquez

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@Jaybezia

U read the thread title re: why I left out Barca?

Just an opinion mate, but I'd be surprised if Schalke make the semis as I believe, form wise, there's at least 5 stronger teams then them. (I am well aware that they made the semis 2 years ago!)
I mentioned below, but apologies I shouldn't have been stupid. Fair point about Shalke, again it comes down to preference, and in a knockout competition, anyone can accept that anything can happen. And I would agree that in general there are stronger teams, but Shalke for me have the 'on the night' quality that allows them to raise their game, but hey I could be wrong, as you say, time will tell.

Why are Bayern too high? Who's a better team than Bayern Munich?
Not that I think there is a better team than Bayern, I don't think anyone should be above them, but I would say they are on our level/Juventus level.

You didn't read the OP or the title of the thread, right?
I did actually but was working at the same time, apologies It was stupid.
 

Balu

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@Jaybezia

U read the thread title re: why I left out Barca?

Just an opinion mate, but I'd be surprised if Schalke make the semis as I believe, form wise, there's at least 5 stronger teams then them. (I am well aware that they made the semis 2 years ago!)
The game yesterday was a joke. I honestly think the winner of this tie is a free ticket to the semis for the team lucky enough to draw them. Both teams, Schalke and Galatasaray, are by far the worst teams left in the competition, in my opinion. Can't see Schalke turning it around and playing like they did at the start of the season. The new manager is a joke, selling Holtby was a stupid move and Huntelaar looks far off his best.
 

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If we beat Madrid and Milan beat Barca then Bayern have to be favourites. Those doubting that can't have seen them play, surely! Personally I think there's a good case can be made for them being favourites whether Barca/Madrid get through or not; they're certainly a better side than Madrid imo and I'd back them to beat Barcelona also.
 

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If we knock Real out, and Milan knock Barca out then I strongly fancy our chances.

Of course you'll still have fantastic teams such as Bayern, Dortmund, PSG etc but I'd fancy us against any of those teams.
 

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Have Bayern changed much since they fluked past us?
 

Balu

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Have Bayern changed much since they fluked past us?
Starting 11 vs United at home in 2010:

Butt
Lahm, van Buyten, Demichelis, Badstuber
van Bommel, Pranjic
Altintop, Müller, Ribery
Olic​

Most likely in the quarter finals this season
Neuer
Lahm, Boateng, Dante, Alaba
Schweinsteiger, Martinez
Müller, Kroos, Ribery
Mandzukic​
 

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Not that I think there is a better team than Bayern, I don't think anyone should be above them, but I would say they are on our level/Juventus level.
Maybe, but taking the past 2 seasons into consideration, you have to consider Bayern to be above us & Juve. They were the unlucky finalists last year and have improved hugely since.
 

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I'd say the best teams in the world right would would probably be as follows:

1. Barcelona
2. Bayern Munich / Real Madrid / Manchester United
5. Manchester City / Juventus
7. Paris St. German / Chelsea / Borussia Dortmund

It's hard to list them in a particular order but on overall squad depth, first 11, and form over the last year or so, I'd have to list them roughly like this. Maybe Juventus and Man City are as good as the teams I list as potential top 2 candidates and there are a few other teams that deserve mentions (Atletico Madrid spring to mind as the next best team).

So, I think it'd only be right that if Barcelona don't get through and we do, we're joint favourites with Bayern (Madrid if we don't), with Juventus just slightly behind. Followed by PSG and Dortmund as 4th favourites. PSG might have the big names, but I think Dortmund are a better 'team' and they'll have conceded the league title already in Germany. This is what they'll be going for. I'd wager they'd even risk finishing 3rd in their league to give this a better push even if they don't end up winning it.