There is no sugar coating required. We finished 2nd simple as that. Could you please write out a list of our other post SAF finishing positions?
If Mourinho's authority and ideology were given more backing, would we be challenging?
- Thread starter DeGea
- Start date
No I distinctly remember a few sensible posters telling the forum we had a fantastic manager and sacking him wouldn’t help
We said we would be ready to say “told you so”, particularly after the gloating that went on immediately post Mourinho. Now we are saying “told you so”
Just like I did when we sacked Van Gaal btw
This is a lie. Jose fans want to assert this on every platform they get but it simply isn't true. There's a reason the big clubs arent going after him. Even with the dispute most Dofs see that he wasn't under any limitation at Man United he wouldn't typically be under at any other club in the world. He's a manager who will always fall out with those above him and no employer wants that
It would be interesting to visit the parallel universe where we backed Mourinho but I doubt we’d be much better off right now. Unless you’re Pogba in which case things would be better for him in Madrid.
The only difference between now and 12 months ago is that Mourinho stopped giving a toss. Solskjaer gives a toss. That’s what makes it so sad to have to watch him so far out of his depth.
The only difference between now and 12 months ago is that Mourinho stopped giving a toss. Solskjaer gives a toss. That’s what makes it so sad to have to watch him so far out of his depth.
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Is it because they already have managers?
PSG directly went from not qualifying to perennial CL QF.
Lets be honest, Mourinho was never knowingly undersold.
We knew what we were getting from the get go and most fans were happy with the success he brought of two cups and 2nd place finish in the PL, if not with the style of football. It seems that Jose himself believes what he achieved that season, especially finishing second in the PL, with the squad of players he had, was one of his finest achievements.
However Mourinho is a 'time bomb' of a manager, he either goes off with a successful 'bang', like winning the Treble in Italy, or he explodes in fits of temper that saw him leave Chelsea and United under something of a cloud. Either way Jose walks away with lots of money, always has done and if he can find another club who think they can tell him what to do, he will grab the offer with both hands.
I cannot ever see Jose staying too long in any football management job, even his so called intended 'last job' of managing Portugal. Mourinho does not build for the future, he has no interest in long term plans, only in the here and now. However, to do that he needs to be in control of everything and of course at some clubs, ours included, that was never going to happen, especially if some of his decisions early on proved less than successful.
Yes there are some United fans who would have him back, as with LvG and even Moyes, but most want a manager who can build a dynasty, but unfortunately we can't wait whilst they do...so, the next United Manager most come complete with 'Magic Wand'.
We knew what we were getting from the get go and most fans were happy with the success he brought of two cups and 2nd place finish in the PL, if not with the style of football. It seems that Jose himself believes what he achieved that season, especially finishing second in the PL, with the squad of players he had, was one of his finest achievements.
However Mourinho is a 'time bomb' of a manager, he either goes off with a successful 'bang', like winning the Treble in Italy, or he explodes in fits of temper that saw him leave Chelsea and United under something of a cloud. Either way Jose walks away with lots of money, always has done and if he can find another club who think they can tell him what to do, he will grab the offer with both hands.
I cannot ever see Jose staying too long in any football management job, even his so called intended 'last job' of managing Portugal. Mourinho does not build for the future, he has no interest in long term plans, only in the here and now. However, to do that he needs to be in control of everything and of course at some clubs, ours included, that was never going to happen, especially if some of his decisions early on proved less than successful.
Yes there are some United fans who would have him back, as with LvG and even Moyes, but most want a manager who can build a dynasty, but unfortunately we can't wait whilst they do...so, the next United Manager most come complete with 'Magic Wand'.
Jose was sacked in Dec 2018, since then
Madrid - Signed Zidane. They also signed Lopetegui and Solari last season.
Juventus - Signed Sarri
Inter - Signed Conte
Chelsea - Signed Lampard
They all didn't even consider Jose and 3 of them were Jose's ex teams.
It is indeed very sad but maybe his tenure can be the slap in the face that will eventually shatter the illusions that the key to making a comeback is looking backwards in our past.
I think Mourinho's time was done at United, as was LvG's or even Moyes' too, previously. All three overstayed their welcome due to Woodward's sheer idiocy. Mourinho made a lot of mistakes, ones that he will never admit, and his intention to target players he had already worked with in the past indicated he wasn't ready to abandon this whole "me vs the whole world" ideology he embraces. Which served him well when he was the talk of the town from the mid to late '00s but it has made him a shell of himself now that Klopp and Pep have both surpassed him.
Having said that, many people refuse to see beyond the names of Perisic and Willian. Because players who can run with the ball through the lines are one of the basic ingredients Ole lacks to make his counter-attacking tactics more effective. Hard-working but also seasoned footballers in their prime who can put in 6.5-7.5 performances week in and week out would be very useful in a side that loses all confidence whenever it concedes or whenever things are going south. Probably the reason why Solskjaer is desperately clinging to the good old deadwood to steady the ship. And his decision to treat both Rashford and Martial as peripheral players (not relying on them as the main goalscorers or creators) was, as it proves, the correct one.
We shouldn't have backed Mourinho but we should have paid more attention to some crucial parts of his assessment instead of choosing to pick the only manager in the world who would be so happy to sit on the bench that he would not dare challenge Woodward's opinion on the squad (i don't think he's done it behind closed doors) but enforce it instead with the notion that the answer to our woes is the promotion of some academy players.
...which is also because they chose those managers over him.
Edit Ahh @roonster09 already got to him before I could
Two comments -- do you think people think Utd is a big club anymore? And, is it that clubs don't want Mourinho or that Mourinho can afford to be picky/choosy about where he goes next?
Well, here's a 3rd comment -- I'm puzzled why Man Utd fans want to advertise how their club specializes is ruining players & managers careers.
You'd have to be pretty thick to suggest Manchester United isn't a big club any longer.
And it's pretty fecking obvious that Mourinho can't afford to be picky at this stage, given his colossal feckups at Chelsea and then United.
The way I see it, sack whoever scouted Fred, decided he was a good player and offered 52M for him. Everybody involved in that decision is not good at their job.
That is why they didn't appoint him.
Don't expect them to do that. It hurts too much to admit it.
Completely in denial.
I have mentioned the same thing and all I had were a series of excuses why that 2nd place finish didn't count.
Why?
Interestingly we have been closer to first with LVG(15 and 17 points away) than with Mourinho(24 and 19 points away), despite the second place.
Interestingly Van Gaal never had to compete with a “super team” like Pep’s Man City, none of the PL teams in the seasons Van Gaal was managing Manchester United, were as good as that City team.
Van Gaal’s highest tally was 70 pts, Mourinho’s was 81 pts.
With almost 400m of expenses added during that lapse of time, you kind of hope that you will get 10 more points. But that's beside the point, what I find interesting is that we somehow went backward within the PL environment.
No.
He's a 3 year manager - goes to war with everyone, either gets an extra 20% from decent players turning them potentially world class, or bitches about them/sells them.
If he'd been given the city job he would have done his time and been gone by now, if he'd been given the Liverpool job Karius would have made his head explode and he would be gone by now.
Great manager, completely the wrong time to hire him, the correct time to fire him.
Just because Ole isn't doing a particularly encouraging job of the rebuild we so obviously needed does not mean it was a mistake to sack Mourinho when we did.
He's a 3 year manager - goes to war with everyone, either gets an extra 20% from decent players turning them potentially world class, or bitches about them/sells them.
If he'd been given the city job he would have done his time and been gone by now, if he'd been given the Liverpool job Karius would have made his head explode and he would be gone by now.
Great manager, completely the wrong time to hire him, the correct time to fire him.
Just because Ole isn't doing a particularly encouraging job of the rebuild we so obviously needed does not mean it was a mistake to sack Mourinho when we did.
We have never went on winning runs under Van Gaal like we did under Mourinho, pretty sure we didn’t have as many comebacks either, I thought the Mourinho team in his first two seasons shown character that we lacked under Moyes, Van Gaal, let alone now.
I got your point, I’ve addressed it and you chose to ignore it, I don’t know what else to tell you.
We never looked close to finishing 2nd under Van Gaal, that I know for sure.
I said it few times, with Van Gaal we were closer to other top teams and better than Liverpool. Under Jose we spent money as much as Klopp did and more than teams like Spurs. They all improved and we regressed. The gap between us and top teams has increased a lot. We are many levels below them.
I haven't ignored it, there is nothing to address. You trying to defend Mourinho for the sake of it isn't interesting.
Your baseless attempts at discrediting him and our 17-18 team aren’t very interesting either.
If we look at the bigger picture and not blame individuals, what I find interesting is that everything went wrong. The players that LVG brought for the future were either sold or stagnated(Memphis, Schneiderlin, Martial, Herrera and Shaw) while the big investments made under Mourinho didn't really fix our issues, in particular in center midfield with Pogba, Matic and Fred costing around 200m in transfer fee. Despite that we are further from the top and the teams behind us are closer.
There are no credits for finishing second and even less when you were never close to compete for the title but again that wasn't the point. The point wasn't about Mourinho but the dynamic during these 4-5 years, we went backwards and are now at the same position then when Moyes was sacked. Now if you want to distribute praises celebrate, go ahead.
We’re in a even worse position than we were under Moyes because we choose to hire a manager who was sacked by Cardiff when he left them at 17th in the Championship.
You think we can take 2nd for granted? You’re living in the past, finishing second
means that the team was heading in a good direction, you need consistency to finish second.
Choose to ignore reality, knock yourself out, but don’t waste my time when you have literally zero input to offer for further discussion and all you want is to bash Jose a bit because he threw a couple of our overpaid underperforming stars under the bus.
We finished ahead of Liverpool the year we came second but, despite that, plenty argued that they were heading in a better direction than us, an argument that was dismissed by several people who simply pointed to the league table. As it turned out, those who thought Liverpool were doing better work were correct.
Point being, using a final league position as a marker of progress without taking the underlying developments into account is a bad way of assessing things.
Point being, using a final league position as a marker of progress without taking the underlying developments into account is a bad way of assessing things.
What is wrong with you? You quoted me, I don't care about you and I don't give a damn about your precious time. If you can't handle simple facts don't initiate discussions.
Oh I got you angry
Yes, I quoted you because you’re talking nonsense and you haven’t brought up any facts though, claiming that 4th is somehow better than 2nd because you’re closer to the leaders who weren’t all that themselves isn’t a fact, you are a literal manchild.
Take it easy.
So we didn't finish farther from the top in terms of points and we didn't go backwards in the last 4-5 years? You are going to genuinely argue that and pretend that these things aren't factual?Oh I got you angry
Yes, I quoted you because you’re talking nonsense and you haven’t brought up any facts though, claiming that 4th is somehow better than 2nd because you’re closer to the leaders who weren’t all that themselves isn’t a fact, you are a literal manchild.
Take it easy.
Also you will notice that only one us tries to make it personal.
remind me the name of that trophy?
Right now, Man Utd makes a lot of money -- Woodward and the Glazers see to that. People usually don't look to that when they say that Utd is a 'big' club, though....if that's what you mean? Plus, being a mid-table team will start to affect that -- if it hasn't already.
We haven't won the league for quite a while, we're out of the champion's league with no real sign of getting back into it.....our players aren't great and aren't improving, our games aren't exciting or interesting. The club is horribly run, and there's no sign of that changing anytime soon either.
What exactly makes us a big club at the moment, do you think?
That's my point.
The Jose haters on here will discredit any progress we made during those few years and then refuse to acknowledge where we are now.
who’s to say we couldn’t have finished ahead of Liverpool the following season if Jose was fully backed? We will never know and no one will be able to say for sure.
Citizens of JM Rectumville were waiting for perfect moment to pop out from the shadows. He shouted "Rise up my minions!" and they responded with "2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd!".
We're the most winning team in England, most league titles, one of the most recognized teams in world football, we don't suddenly go from being a big club while we're successfull to being a small club when we don't win anything. Just as Liverpool has "always" been known as one of the biggest clubs in England.
There’s a difference between being a big club historically and a current big club though, I didn’t consider Liverpool a big club when they were shite under Hodgson or Dalglish, no one took them seriously and top players from the biggest leagues weren’t that keen to join them.
We're the most winning team in England, most league titles, one of the most recognized teams in world football, we don't suddenly go from being a big club while we're successfull to being a small club when we don't win anything. Just as Liverpool has "always" been known as one of the biggest clubs in England.
I don’t think Liverpool considered a big European club in the 90’s either, they weren’t making the Champions league and they weren’t competing for the title.
It's not really important what you considered them to be or not, the majority would quite easily disagree with you. I don't think you fully grasp the size of the biggest clubs in the world, it's not a status that's going to change anytime soon, including ours.
Not to mention that we've rarely signed top players from the biggest leagues...
The problem with Mourinho is that the older he became the little problems he had grew and became worse. You can tell he had more control of himself even when under tremendous pressure when he was younger during the Porto, Inter and first Chelsea spells. In his recent years in Chelsea and United he could not cope with this high pressure anymore and would spiral into self doubt, paranoia that players are against him which will ultimately lead to destruction mode.
Therefore I believe even if the board backed him up he would end up creating issues sooner or later to the point of no return. He is just not stable anymore.
Therefore I believe even if the board backed him up he would end up creating issues sooner or later to the point of no return. He is just not stable anymore.