If Ole doesn’t revert to a conventional 4-3-3,then he”ll be gone by December….

Nikelesh Reddy

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If he sticks to this formation then he”ll be gone by December.With Cristiano in the team we can’t press from the front….We need a lot of players to put in an extra shift to make up for Cristianos lack of running.We have to play a conventional 4-3-3….Matic in front of the back four,Mctominay as a RCM and Pogba as a LCM….Play Cristiano/Cavani up top….Greenwood on the right and Rashford/Sancho on the left.

A conventional 4-3-3 will give us more balance and solidity.Obviously this would mean dropping Bruno(atleast for the big games),but hey,the team is far more important than any one individual.It’s no coincidence that our record in the big games has been poor ever since Bruno joined the club(even though he has been terrific against the lesser teams).So if I was Ole,I would drop Bruno and play a 4-3-3 against the better teams.We can play Bruno in a 4-2-3-1 against the lesser teams,but not against the better teams…..
 

Nikelesh Reddy

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The 4-2-3-1 is simply not going to work against the better teams in the league,certainly not with Ronaldo up top….He has to play a 4-3-3 next weekend to get a result against Liverpool….
 

Ali Dia

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From today Pogba needs dropping and we need to take control of games. Win our 50/50s and start pressing in an honest and consistent way. We can’t have 3 forwards walking around. Their lack of energy and fight seeps down through the rest of the team and our midfield and defenders get rag dolled. Ditto with Pogba and Matic walking around the middle. So annoyed today. So annoyed!
 

largelyworried

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It should be painfully obvious to everyone that simple formation changes are not going to solve anything. Ole’s coaching team is just not doing the business. Whatever formation you put them in, the basics aren’t there, so we’ll have the same problems.
 

glazed

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Everyone knows our defensive midfield is crap now so they are going to press it hard every chance they get. There isn't a lot we can do to fix this before Xmas
 

PlayerOne

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Does it even matter what formation Ole picks? If you can't set up the team to play as a unit, attacking and defending then it doesn't matter who he selects and where they play.
 

Idxomer

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It should be painfully obvious to everyone that simple formation changes are not going to solve anything. Ole’s coaching team is just not doing the business. Whatever formation you put them in, the basics aren’t there, so we’ll have the same problems.
Yes, people advocating formation or player changes are barking up the wrong tree or trying to make themselves feel better because they believe we're sticking with Ole no matter what.
 

Cassidy

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Does it even matter what formation Ole picks? If you can't set up the team to play as a unit, attacking and defending then it doesn't matter who he selects and where they play.
This
 

RepardReece

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It should be painfully obvious to everyone that simple formation changes are not going to solve anything. Ole’s coaching team is just not doing the business. Whatever formation you put them in, the basics aren’t there, so we’ll have the same problems.
stating the obvious, some people are blind.

Everyone knows our defensive midfield is crap now so they are going to press it hard every chance they get. There isn't a lot we can do to fix this before Xmas
I mean, Chelsea had a ton of issues under Lampard, which was pretty much immediately fixed by the arrival of Tuchel?
 

Amir

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It should be painfully obvious to everyone that simple formation changes are not going to solve anything. Ole’s coaching team is just not doing the business. Whatever formation you put them in, the basics aren’t there, so we’ll have the same problems.
This.
 

The Cat

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More important to get knowhow onto to the training pitch and organise them and put the fear of God into a few of them.
 

Sandikan

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stating the obvious, some people are blind.


I mean, Chelsea had a ton of issues under Lampard, which was pretty much immediately fixed by the arrival of Tuchel?
Even those of us who would love Ole to succeed can see this.

There's only so much going round the team saying Ronaldo is the problem, Bruno is, the defence is etc, Sancho is.

These are some top class players here. They can't all be the problem.
 

glazed

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stating the obvious, some people are blind.


I mean, Chelsea had a ton of issues under Lampard, which was pretty much immediately fixed by the arrival of Tuchel?
Yeah but we're not Chelsea. I don't see what another manager could do with our bunch of talented randoms without buying some DMs. Fred, Matic and McT are all not good enough.

I agree Ole is a poor coach. I just don't think sacking him alone would solve the problem.
 

el3mel

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With Ronaldo in the team only the diamond can work for me. He needs another mobile striker alongside him.

Scott
Fred - Pogba
Bruno
Greenwood/Cavani - Ronaldo

Any other formation involves a lone striker and Ronaldo has no business being in the team.
 

Hugh Jass

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It doesnt matter what formation he employs, we are not playing with identity. We are not a possession team like Pep or Tuchel and we are not a counter attacking team like Conte or Simone. We are just a team of very talented individuals, some who are the best in their position doing what they want on the pitch. The tactics are essentially to rely on individual brilliance like Greenwoods goal to get us through matches, be it attacking individual brilliance or defending individual brilliance.

So playing 4-3-3 or 3-5-2 wont make a difference.
 

sullydnl

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Aside from the fact that changing from 4-2-3-1 to 4-3-3 would be like re-arranging deck chairs on the titanic, the OP is also saying "we can play Bruno in a 4-2-3-1 against the lesser teams but not against the better teams" as if we haven't been struggling against the lesser teams. Unlike our title rivals, we have yet to face another title rival this season. Lesser teams are a problem.
 

Trequarista10

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I somewhat agree with Bruno, I think number 10s are usually a luxury. Hard working though he is, he's too high up, and we don't have wingers who get up and down to balance it.

I would like to think he's good enough to adapt to another position though. Surely he'd do as good a job in a Bruno as Pogba does, provided he had a holder and a runner alongside him. Or keep him as a 10 but have a grafter like Lingard on one wing in the big games. Or have him cutting in from the left in a front 3 in big games.

To clarify, I'd include games against decent mid table sides as big games, especially away from home.
 

RepardReece

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Yeah but we're not Chelsea. I don't see what another manager could do with our bunch of talented randoms without buying some DMs. Fred, Matic and McT are all not good enough.

I agree Ole is a poor coach. I just don't think sacking him alone would solve the problem.
Eh, this squad can be ridiculously good providing it is managed right. At the minute, it's all just individual quality, they're not a team, a manager that could change this would seriously have us fighting.
 

Infestissumam

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we simply are a very unbalanced team right now. Most of our attacks come from the left because AWB offers less than zero in attack and because Greenwood likes to drift inside too. That needs to be addressed ASAP because despite Greenwood's great strike today, it's not working.

as for the midfield, I don't think we'll get the proper balance as long as we try to shoehorn Pogba into the lineup. I still don't see how he and Bruno work together in the same XI - it means either sacrificing a winger (and I don't see how we benefit from that at all, given we already lack width) or leaving the remaining midfielder on an island.
 

GMoore23

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If we were to go 4-3-3 then Ronaldo would be useless at the no9. We'll need a hard worker like Cavani there in that situation. To be honest, I much prefer Cavani to Ronaldo as a striker in any formation. In a 4-3-3, it's better to have the striker pressing well but also coming deep to hold the ball up for wide forwards cutting in and making runs in behind the defense.

I'd like to see this against Pool

De Gea
Bissaka - Varane - Lindelof - Shaw/Telles
Mctominay - Matic - Bruno
Greenwood - Cavani - CR7

If Shaw continues his poor form I'd drop him for Telles. I'd also be tempted to drop Ronaldo for Rashford but he'd have an absolute meltdown.
 

Fridge chutney

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Even those of us who would love Ole to succeed can see this.

There's only so much going round the team saying Ronaldo is the problem, Bruno is, the defence is etc, Sancho is.

These are some top class players here. They can't all be the problem.
I have been a huge Ole advocate and i believe he has done wonders for the club, but i think he has hit his ceiling. We are being out-coached and out-managed. We are moving backwards because teams are exploiting our weakness and can predict how we will play. I haven't seen improvement this year, sadly the contrary. We need to identify a top manager and bid Ole farewell, or move him into another position at the club.
 

Sandikan

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I have been a huge Ole advocate and i believe he has done wonders for the club, but i think he has hit his ceiling. We are being out-coached and out-managed. We are moving backwards because teams are exploiting our weakness and can predict how we will play. I haven't seen improvement this year, sadly the contrary. We need to identify a top manager and bid Ole farewell, or move him into another position at the club.
I think he's played an important role, and he'd leave the squad a lot better than the one he picked up.
That would be his legacy.

But it's probably time to have someone else lined up.
When Ole is asking stuff like "what should we do" and making vague comments about how we need a big rethink (having just had 2 weeks to work out what we're doing), you do wonder if he has a clue.
 

SirReginald

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Pushing an AMs base position to CM is going to solve your problems? Because that’s the only real difference between 2-3-1 and 3-3. The job of the front 3 doesn’t change and their position doesn’t change.

In fact, I don’t think Bruno is suited to CM so it would be detrimental to do so.
 

Skills

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Formations on paper are irrelevant. Change the paper formation to a 4-3-3, and Bruno's natural instinct will still make him want to play right up with the striker.
 

Roboc7

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I think he was hinting at what’s to come in his post match interview. Back 5, Mcfred in midfield and Rashford up front with Ron. Park the bus, hit on the break and see how long he can cling on to his job. The rebuild and reboot are dead, it’s survival mode now.
 

FerociousCorgis

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I mean everyone was talking about our position relative to others but our schedule had been so easy. Looking at our next 6 we play liverpool, spurs, city, Chelsea, and arsenal. No way we aren't ridiculously far back from top by then and prob close to falling way behind in battle for 4th. Ole needs to get himself an actual backroom staff if he wants any actual shot of succeeding. I loved Carrick as a player but we need better
 

Thiagoal

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Ironically, and please don’t shoot the messenger, we’d have been much more balanced as a team if we’d kept James and played him as a hard working wide player. Would be a much better balance with Ronaldo. At present one decent pass is bisecting half our team and totally exposing us. Sancho and CR7 were really unnecessary signings this summer (as much as I love their talents)
 

FatTails

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Does it even matter what formation Ole picks? If you can't set up the team to play as a unit, attacking and defending then it doesn't matter who he selects and where they play.
It doesn't matter what formation you pick, but it matters where players operate. Bruno is very high up most of the time leaving us essentially with 2 midfielders. If one of them is Pogba, he ends up pushing up too leaving Matic/McTominay/Fred by themselves.

If Bruno must play close to the striker, then we really need to drop one of the wingers for a third midfielder. The other option is Bruno and Pogba play with Matic, like today, but how they operate has to change (I don't see this working because it requires a lot of coaching and for Pogba and Bruno to massively change how they operate).

I would play Matic, Pogba, and one of Fred/McTominay/VDB in midfield, Bruno nominally on the left but in reality drifting in close to the striker, Shaw allowed the freedom to overlap and have a higher average position, and AWB being conservative and "staying back".

That means that only one of Ronaldo or Cavani can play up top, and only one of Rashford/Greenwood/Sancho on the right wing. If you want to play two of Rashford/Greenwood/Sancho, then you have to drop Bruno or Pogba.

We should focus on solidifying our midfield over the next couple of weeks and then find the right attacking combinations. Our squad is top heavy, but it doesn't mean we give up on trying to find a balance or chuck the maximum number of attacking players in and see what happens. We are so easy to beat and the "we'll just score more than them" as an approach is dead and has been dead for many years now.
 

kps88

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Been saying this for ages. It will definitely not magically solve everything, but doing the same thing game after game isn't working either.

I'd drop Pogba and play Bruno wide as part of the front three. Play three proper midfielders in the middle and let's start getting some clean sheets. Would mean loads of big names missing out every week, but that's what we get for having such an unbalanced squad.
 

steffyr2

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It doesn't matter what formation you pick, but it matters where players operate. Bruno is very high up most of the time leaving us essentially with 2 midfielders. If one of them is Pogba, he ends up pushing up too leaving Matic/McTominay/Fred by themselves.

If Bruno must play close to the striker, then we really need to drop one of the wingers for a third midfielder. The other option is Bruno and Pogba play with Matic, like today, but how they operate has to change (I don't see this working because it requires a lot of coaching and for Pogba and Bruno to massively change how they operate).

I would play Matic, Pogba, and one of Fred/McTominay/VDB in midfield, Bruno nominally on the left but in reality drifting in close to the striker, Shaw allowed the freedom to overlap and have a higher average position, and AWB being conservative and "staying back".

That means that only one of Ronaldo or Cavani can play up top, and only one of Rashford/Greenwood/Sancho on the right wing. If you want to play two of Rashford/Greenwood/Sancho, then you have to drop Bruno or Pogba.

We should focus on solidifying our midfield over the next couple of weeks and then find the right attacking combinations. Our squad is top heavy, but it doesn't mean we give up on trying to find a balance or chuck the maximum number of attacking players in and see what happens. We are so easy to beat and the "we'll just score more than them" as an approach is dead and has been dead for many years now.
Either Ole doesn't know how the game should be played (unlikely) or the players are just ignoring him. I'm afraid I'm voting for #2.
 

anant

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With Ronaldo, 4-3-3 doesn't work. The front line doesn't even make an attempt to win back the ball early, and the opposition can reach our midfield really easily. With the kind of midfielders we have, a bit of an overload there (which happens more often than not as the attackers are jogging to help them out) and they can be bypassed.

The only two formations I see working with Ronaldo are the diamond or 5-3-2/5-2-3 alteration. In diamond, you're making the game more compact while defending and while attacking, we can quite easily expand the pitch.

In 5-3-2 you'd have more defensive cover and one of the defenders can step up into midfield to help out instances when we are short of a man.

Right now, while we are making fun of Ole's "lack legs" and all, he is in a way right. Ronaldo, Greenwood have among the worst work rates in the league, Sancho doesn't help the defence out that often as well. And for a midfielder playing in a 2, Pog would rank towards the bottom as well. If you have 4 such players, you can't be shocked when the game you're playing seems like a basketball match when we're defending
 

ayushreddevil9

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Does it even matter what formation Ole picks? If you can't set up the team to play as a unit, attacking and defending then it doesn't matter who he selects and where they play.
Yeah it's irrelevant. The weaknesses lie somewhere else.
 

OrcaFat

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It’s not the formation it’s the personnel.

Not playing Bruno is the dumbest idea I’ve heard. If not for him Ole would be gone long ago.

Generally, we need more running in the team, more fight and more quality. Assuming we’re stuck with what we’ve got, “more quality” ain’t happening but playing McFred behind Rashford Bruno Greenwood and Ronaldo should be okay in most games.

Sancho should get better and Cavani will be useful when fit. Otherwise, any changes seem to weaken the team or upset the balance. Hey ho.
 

Abraxas

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Armchair tactician work at its finest. As if it's as simple as flipping around an attacking midfield and central midfield role to get a result against Liverpool and to solve our woes.