If only had I won

GodShaveTheQueen

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I had thought of creating this thread in the past but had stopped playing drafts, so didn't get the motivation to create.

The idea of the thread is fairly straightforward. More often than not we are a couple of reinforcements away from creating that perfect team or theme we had imagined. But some draft Lord like Gio or Enigma eliminates us before we can make those reinforcements and the dreamland is never reached.

Post your eventual idea that you had in mind after you get eliminated so that the vision is not lost with your loss.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Lost in the semis of the Auction Chaos 2021 draft

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/auction-draft-chaos-2021-sf-gstq-vs-gio.463034/

The theme was not just to create a team of Manchester United players but to create a marriage of the three Champions Leagues that Manchester United had won in their history with as many partnerships intact as possible.

The plan for the reinforcements before the final was to replace -

1. McGrath with Rio
2. Stam with Vidic
3. Bezsonov with Neville
4. Gregg with Van Der Sar

Partnerships -

1. Attack - Best, Law, Charlton - 1968
2. Midfield - Keane, Scholes, Giggs - 1999
3. Central defense - Rio, Vidic, Van Der Sar - 2008
4. Full backs - Irwin, Neville - 1999

 

2mufc0

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Lost in the semis of the Auction Chaos 2021 draft

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/auction-draft-chaos-2021-sf-gstq-vs-gio.463034/

The theme was not just to create a team of Manchester United players but to create a marriage of the three Champions Leagues that Manchester United had won in their history with as many partnerships intact as possible.

The plan for the reinforcements before the final was to replace -

1. McGrath with Rio
2. Stam with Vidic
3. Bezsonov with Neville
4. Gregg with Van Der Sar

Partnerships -

1. Attack - Best, Law, Charlton - 1968
2. Midfield - Keane, Scholes, Giggs - 1999
3. Central defense - Rio, Vidic, Van Der Sar - 2008
4. Full backs - Irwin, Neville - 1999

Pretty much the United all time x1, maybe you could put CR instead of Giggs and Schmeichel in for VDS.
 

Isotope

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Vidic should be on the left, and Neville there is enough for me to vote against that team.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Pretty much the United all time x1, maybe you could put CR instead of Giggs and Schmeichel in for VDS.
CR not possible with the peanuts you gave in reinforcement money :lol:

Vidic should be on the left, and Neville there is enough for me to vote against that team.
Unfortunately, we haven't had any great right backs. That is why left that reinforcement for the end.
 

harms

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Unfortunately, we haven't had any great right backs. That is why left that reinforcement for the end.

It's a bit of a cop out, but even Nevill put him at right back in his all-time XI iirc — Evra on the left & Irwin on the right is always an option.
 

Theon

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Neville underrated as feck.
Yeah big time, I don’t get the implied critique here. Very solid and dependable with the sort of competitive winning mentality that adds a lot of value to a team.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Possibly Evra and Irwin combo? But yeh. Still a bit short of the all time great XI.
It's a bit of a cop out, but even Nevill put him at right back in his all-time XI iirc — Evra on the left & Irwin on the right is always an option.
Have to remember we are on a budget. Evra costs 50 mn. Obviously I did consider it and would have gone for it if not for money issues
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Nice team, better then Robson - Keane double pivot for sure.
I really liked the Robson-Keane pivot to be honest.

Scholes really clicks here as I have Giggs and Law who can add a lot of work rate which would be crucial for big European setting games. Everything gets tied beautifully to build an all time team with Scholes in here.

If I had the likes of Ronaldo and RVN instead, I would want a Keane-Robson double pivot.

You add Charlton to the mix there and I think that midfield would even give peak Xavi-Iniesta a run for their money.
 

Jim Beam

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I knew you did like it. You kept Robson for value of what 130 million if am not mistaken to have that midfield.

There is loads of insane energy there, but I definitely prefer someone holding it all together behind and letting other two (Charlton and one of Keane/Robson do their thing). Even Xavi and Iniesta had Busquets etc... Just my preference and think it is way more balanced. No one else had any comments after all, so it seems everyone liked it.

Midfield is usually my favorite part of building a team. So many various combination to go and choose from. For example, here Scholes immediately gives another dimension and new element to that midfield which lifts it up a level imo.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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There is loads of insane energy there, but I definitely prefer someone holding it all together behind and letting other two (Charlton and one of Keane/Robson do their thing). Even Xavi and Iniesta had Busquets etc... Just my preference and think it is way more balanced. No one else had any comments after all, so it seems everyone liked it.
Below is an interesting read I came across while thinking about the Robson-Keane midfield. Talking about the 1996 FA cup final

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Keane was playing a slightly different role than usual. Ferguson originally considered playing 3-5-2 to match Liverpool but after a meeting with Schmeichel, the back four, Keane and Cantona, he was dissuaded. Cantona then suggested sitting Keane in front of the back four in a 4-1-3-1-1. The result was a quite awesome performance. There has always been a simplistic perception of Keane as a licensed thug. He was reasonably decisive in the tackle, for sure, and on this day he harassed Liverpool to within an inch of their sanity, but an equal if not bigger strength was his forensic reading of games and higher state of concentration. For Keane football was like chess-boxing, placing equal, extreme demands on brain and brawn.

It was one of Keane’s finest performances, probably second only to his career-defining effort against Juventus three years later. He was aided by Ferguson’s decision to tuck Beckham and Giggs inside when United didn’t have the ball, and particularly by the diligence of his trusted lieutenant Butt, but really this was all about Keane. He got Fowler, McManaman, Collymore and Redknapp in an armlock.

“Neutrals said the 1996 Cup final was a bore,” sniffed Keane in his first autobiography. “Not if you were playing. It was grim all right, demanding every ounce of concentration, every last grasp of breath. My job was to anchor midfield, to deny Liverpool time and space, to break up their rhythm, basically to destroy any notions they might have had about passing us to defeat. There’s a lot of ground to cover at Wembley, but I covered it, got my tackles in, delivered the message: this is going to be hard work, boys, fecking hard work. Along with Nicky Butt I won the midfield battle. Nicky was a tough lad and an ideal partner for this kind of operation.”

...It was the completion of Cantona’s comeback and after the game Ferguson only wanted to talk about one man. Keane. When asked to praise Cantona, he did and then changed the conversation. “I thought Roy Keane was the best man on the park. Absolutely magnificent.” This was the day when the professional love-in between Keane and Ferguson went to another level. Keane returned the compliment in his autobiography. “The double of 1995-96 vindicated the manager. He had won something with ‘kids’.”
 

Jim Beam

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Cheers, great read (probably worth watching that match again). I did made the assumption it would be Keane who would anchor the midfield in such set up.
 

Synco

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Nice thread idea, GSTQ. My dream team from the Auction Draft is more like "what if I had 50m bucks more":



Team is a mix of tactics and personnel from various rounds. Exception is Rio getting replaced by Thiago SIlva, who I see as the perfect modern CB for this style. (Only didn't buy him for expecting a lukewarm reception.)
  • All-Barca front four with Luisito & Stoichkov making a comeback
  • Voronin in the Fernandinho/Rodri role (benched for the final of course, I did have Gündogan after all)
  • Rijkaard/Silva my possession football CB partnership of dreams - Rijkaard in a better position to go forward from a deeper position, Voronin/Silva covering for him
Okay, now you all know :lol:
 

Physiocrat

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Nice thread idea, GSTQ. My dream team from the Auction Draft is more like "what if I had 50m bucks more":



Team is a mix of tactics and personnel from various rounds. Exception is Rio getting replaced by Thiago SIlva, who I see as the perfect modern CB for this style. (Only didn't buy him for expecting a lukewarm reception.)
  • All-Barca front four with Luisito & Stoichkov making a comeback
  • Voronin in the Fernandinho/Rodri role (benched for the final of course, I did have Gündogan after all)
  • Rijkaard/Silva my possession football CB partnership of dreams - Rijkaard in a better position to go forward from a deeper position, Voronin/Silva covering for him
Okay, now you all know :lol:
:lol:
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Lost in the semis of the 4-4-2 draft to Pat

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-4-4-2-draft-sf-sjor-gstq-vs-pat-mustard.468500/

After all the flak Boniek had received throughout the draft, although we had dropped him for the semis keeping Riva/Seeler in mind, always wanted to bring him back for the final. Just wanted a huge upgrade to that Cabrini-Netto-Boniek-Riva axis which we had partially upgraded to Cabrini-Davids-Boniek-Riva. The last piece of the puzzle would have been Thierry Henry. With him, that axis of 4 would have finally become impossible to improve in the draft pool and context. I still would have expected him to receive flak in the final in the setup, but that Boniek-Henry connection looked like an awesome match to me. Both drifting inwards and outwards at will would have lead to mesmerizing attacking patterns IMO

Not sure if @Šjor Bepo would have been on board but one of the reasons we performed badly in the semis (even though we both predicted it should have been a comfortable win) is because our team kind of became boring with nothing to discuss. So this change would have been up his alley I think.

 

Isotope

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Drafts are a funny business. Before this draft, Boniek was just another player for me, now is an absolute favorite
Boniek is really a more polished (pun intended) Adama Traore. They both are super fast, strong, and their run creates havoc with unpredictability movement.

It's Tigana for me. I appreciate his playmaking quality and three-lung energy the more I watch him. He's like Fred on different level.
 

Šjor Bepo

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Boniek is really a more polished (pun intended) Adama Traore. They both are super fast, strong, and their run creates havoc with unpredictability movement.

It's Tigana for me. I appreciate his playmaking quality and three-lung energy the more I watch him. He's like Fred on different level.
Dont ever compliment a player with “he's like Fred” line
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Boniek is really a more polished (pun intended) Adama Traore. They both are super fast, strong, and their run creates havoc with unpredictability movement
I think this just an off the ball runner reputation is because most relate with him only with his Juventus stint and Platini partnership.

If you look at his Poland games, you would know he was way more than that. I tried to find the right game to showcase that but he hardly played as a dedicated left sided player there. Played all over from left to right, support striker and even striker.

I don't know who the expert on Boniek is around here, maybe @harms ? I don't remember him posting in our match threads so not really sure where he stands on this.
 

Gio

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Drafts are a funny business. Before this draft, Boniek was just another player for me, now is an absolute favorite
I find that the more I watch these players, the more they impress. As in the only thing stopping me rating them higher is a lack of footage, and when I get to see them properly, they really stand out during their era. There are so many under-appreciated players out there.

There is a handful who look less brilliant upon further watching, but they tend to be in the minority.
 

Isotope

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Yeh. I only watched Boniek in Juve's shirt. I wasn't that impressed. Tardelli on the other hand, was really impressive.
 

harms

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I don't know who the expert on Boniek is around here, maybe @harms ? I don't remember him posting in our match threads so not really sure where he stands on this.
@antohan is probably the most knowledgeable on the matter. I’ve seen a fair amount of his games as well though.

In my first or second draft I’ve tried to react to the score (I was winning), so changed the tactics to a counter-attacking set up and took Boniek off (keeping Baggio on). Needless to say, @antohan gave me a proper bollocking for that (and rightly so).

Wonderful player, certainly one of my favorites and one of those who I’ve grown to appreaciate much more over time of watching yesteryear’s footage.
 

Šjor Bepo

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I find that the more I watch these players, the more they impress. As in the only thing stopping me rating them higher is a lack of footage, and when I get to see them properly, they really stand out during their era. There are so many under-appreciated players out there.

There is a handful who look less brilliant upon further watching, but they tend to be in the minority.
Would say its 50:50 in my case
But you always find at least one relatively unknown player that impresses you more then some hyped stars. There was a guy at Spurs called Nayim, looks class. Currently watching England 90 campaign(+ one qualifier) and Mark Wright for example much better then Des Walker.
 

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Who would you count in that category?
Kubala - @Šjor Bepo did some match compilations and he looked ropey in each one. Probably hungover.

Neeskens - The way he dived in all the time means I'm not sure he was quite as tactically brilliant as his reputation suggests. He was pretty shit in the 78 final too.

Santamaria - well covered on here, probably gone too far the other way with him now.

Keepers - quite a few with massive reputations (i.e. top 20 of all-time) who had mistakes in them upon rewatching. Small sample size of footage might not be fair to them though.
 

harms

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Kubala - @Šjor Bepo did some match compilations and he looked ropey in each one. Probably hungover.

Neeskens - The way he dived in all the time means I'm not sure he was quite as tactically brilliant as his reputation suggests. He was pretty shit in the 78 final too.

Santamaria - well covered on here, probably gone too far the other way with him now.

Keepers - quite a few with massive reputations (i.e. top 20 of all-time) who had mistakes in them upon rewatching. Small sample size of footage might not be fair to them though.
Good list that I’d put my name below as well, although I do really feel for Kubala (who seem to have had the worst luck in terms of the footage that survived to this day). But I just can’t rate him anywhere close to Di Stéfano/Puskás etc., that he was most often compared to while he was still playing.

Another one for me would be Coluna, but he’s a weird one. Going by his trophy hall and overall career, you’d expect one of the greatest midfielders of all-time but all I see is someone who’s not agile & creative enough to be a number 10 and not mobile enough to be a central midfielder… he did have a knack of providing a couple of moments of brilliance (usually long-distance shots or nifty dribbles) throughout the game, which is why he looks great in highlights, but it’s certainly not enough to justify the hype.
 

Šjor Bepo

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im afraid to even think about it as i reckon if i started to do my list it would be close to 50 players :lol:
 

antohan

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I think this just an off the ball runner reputation is because most relate with him only with his Juventus stint and Platini partnership.

If you look at his Poland games, you would know he was way more than that. I tried to find the right game to showcase that but he hardly played as a dedicated left sided player there. Played all over from left to right, support striker and even striker.

I don't know who the expert on Boniek is around here, maybe @harms ? I don't remember him posting in our match threads so not really sure where he stands on this.
Boniek is sort of an acquired taste, one of those players that aren't easy on the eye highlights players but whose influence you notice out of regularly watching the same side with and without him.

Fabulous player and the exact opposite of the one trick pony he is depicted as. In rough terms:

1) "Regular Boniek" played every weekend against lesser teams that parked their bus against Juve. He doesn't have great individual numbers, it's Juve's and Platini's numbers that changed with/without Boniek creating space and dragging defenders all over the place. @Balu once read a post I made about Boniek and said "that sounds like Thomas Müller". Exactly, had somehow never drawn the parallel in my head, but it's absolutely spot on.

2) Continental Boniek, "Il bello di notte" as he was called by Agnelli because his greatest match-winning performances happened in midweek European games. His importance smacked you in the face because it was no longer a havoc-creator for others to shine. In Europe, Juve played Italian "you won't score so I just need a goal" counter-attack. Platini dropped deep and now turned into a Scholesy pinging balls over the top for Boniek to chase in ocean's of space, leaving defenders for dead, and either concluding the move or entertaining them all long enough for Platini to storm into the box.

Both Juve's and Platini's peak form fell off a cliff the day Zibi moved to Roma, underscoring Michel's famous answer on who would be top scorer in Serie A: "whoever plays with Boniek".

As for Poland, that was their golden era and not all about Boniek. In a strong and functional side, he was the unknown adapting his game to the rival faced. The way he eviscerated what also was an all-time "golden era" Belgian side is the stuff of legends. Just look at this hat-trick, it's Boniek in all his glory:

 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Thanks @antohan

That Belgium game is just a brilliant watch, so is the Boniek compilation one of you lads made on YouTube.
 

antohan

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That said @GodShaveTheQueen I'm not sure about that Boniek-Henry combo. I don't see it really. Actually more likely to be confused as feck if you ask me.