If our first central pair is awful; name PL pair who is better then

Andycoleno9

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Lindelof and Harry are so criticized here. As a pair and as individuals (i don't deny, i slated Harry often too). But when you look closely, who have better defensive duo? For which duo you would trade our duo? Not one of them, i am talking two for two trade.

For me only Dias and Laporte (not Stones) are better. Other central pairs are not even close to our guys.
 

Ace Krampus

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It's a three prong issue. A) they were expensive, B) they're not exactly the best fit together and C) people got pretty freakin spoiled by Rio & Vidic. Seems like there's a dearth of good CB talent globally at the moment and I don't think Lindelof and Maguire are the reason we're not winning the league and I feel like most level-headed people know that, despite the frustration expressed at their respective gaffes.
 

TheReligion

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I think they get exposed more without a Fernandinho, Fabinho or Kante.

I'd like an upgrade on Lindelof but if we went for someone like Rice I'd happily wait and see how they looked as I think a classic DM could well be the answer.
 

BaillyBaillyBailly

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I agree they're not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. Maguire gets slated for his price tag and comparison with VVD but he's a good CB.

In terms of a partnership I would say the following are better
VVD + Matip/Gomez
Dias + Stones/Laporte
Fofana + Evans/Soyuncu
Silva + Rudiger/Azpi
 

The Boy

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Given that only City and Chelsea have a better GA record than you in the premiership so far, you can rate them pretty well on that. Your defence has been pretty miserly this season and a real improvement on last year. I agree with the poster above about a DM though, Rice would make a huge difference to this team in solidifying the defence even further and releasing a second midfielder into attack a bit more.
 

Inigo Montoya

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Given that only City and Chelsea have a better GA record than you in the premiership so far, you can rate them pretty well on that. Your defence has been pretty miserly this season and a real improvement on last year. I agree with the poster above about a DM though, Rice would make a huge difference to this team in solidifying the defence even further and releasing a second midfielder into attack a bit more.
Rather have Bissouma
 

jesperjaap

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To be fair to Lindelof who I have absolutely slated, he has improved this calendar year and is being consistently decent.....but I still dont see him and Maguire as the right partnership. I also think comparing to other pairings is a little bit folly as lets be honest, defensively the premiership has been generally shocking this season.
 

justsomebloke

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I agree they're not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. Maguire gets slated for his price tag and comparison with VVD but he's a good CB.

In terms of a partnership I would say the following are better
VVD + Matip/Gomez
Dias + Stones/Laporte
Fofana + Evans/Soyuncu
Silva + Rudiger/Azpi
The first two definitely, the third arguably but not the fourth. There's a reason Chelsea needs to play three at the back.
 

The Corinthian

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I think they get exposed more without a Fernandinho, Fabinho or Kante.

I'd like an upgrade on Lindelof but if we went for someone like Rice I'd happily wait and see how they looked as I think a classic DM could well be the answer.
I agree with this. A world class DM actually lessens the need for another CB somewhat.

But I also agree that Lindelof and Maguire take an unnecessary amount of flack. Lindelof (the more criticised of the two) for most of 2021 has been very very good.
 

CM10

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City and Liverpool when van Dijk was available. Lindelof and Maguire aren't terrible, and to be fair Lindelof has got better in the last couple of months, but there are still big question marks over whether they can be a title winning partnership. That's what we've got to be aspiring to.

Same goes for Europe - we've not got close to the latter stages of the Champions League for years now. Will that partnership help us get there? Not sure.
 

Lastwolf

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I agree they're not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. Maguire gets slated for his price tag and comparison with VVD but he's a good CB.

In terms of a partnership I would say the following are better
VVD + Matip/Gomez
Dias + Stones/Laporte
Fofana + Evans/Soyuncu
Silva + Rudiger/Azpi
I remember when Evans was here, if you swapped them, you'd have people on here pinning for Lindelof.
 

RedDevilzFox

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No one has better CB's in PL than we do. At least not obviously better, there maybe fine margins with strengths and weaknesses but nothing material. Maguire to me has been pretty great for us, Lindelof less so. I think with a capable 'Michael Carrick' type playmaker in front of them we're set for a good season.

Props to both for staying fit thruout the grueling season too. Neither of them are a liability like our other CBs.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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Can you see that pair being part of a title challenging team, deep stages of CL or team to win a major cup?
Yes I think they are better than what City got in terms of defenders apart from Dias right now.

The difference is City defenders play under a better manager and in a slightly better team so get seen as better players.
 

cyberman

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Can you see that pair being part of a title challenging team, deep stages of CL or team to win a major cup?
I see Chelsea in a CL semi final.. So yes?
We have to stop pretending we need this elite quality to compete at the top level
We really dont.
 

charlenefan

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Maguire and Lindelof as individuals get in any PL sides starting XI, they just don't really compliment one another as a pairing

That being said they're still one of the better pairings in the league
 

justsomebloke

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I see Chelsea in a CL semi final.. So yes?
We have to stop pretending we need this elite quality to compete at the top level
We really dont.
You see Chelsea in a CL semi final with a back 3. Bit hard to compare to a CB duo.

But I also don't think Maguire/Lindelof is clearly not up to scratch for a title winning team. They'd not be a strong point of such a team though.
 
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DULLAGHAN

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I think they get exposed more without a Fernandinho, Fabinho or Kante.

I'd like an upgrade on Lindelof but if we went for someone like Rice I'd happily wait and see how they looked as I think a classic DM could well be the answer.
A good holding midfielder is key to so many of our issues. It would allow greater cover for our centre backs and also should allow us to get away from playing Fred and mctominay as a two so regularly, hopefully freeing up someone with a more attacking ability when we struggle to break teams down.

That said it we can get a quicker more athletic alternative at centre back I'd be all for it as it will allow is to push forward more all over the pitch. Anyone know if Jap Stam has any sons yet?
 

afrocentricity

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It's a three prong issue. A) they were expensive, B) they're not exactly the best fit together and C) people got pretty freakin spoiled by Rio & Vidic. Seems like there's a dearth of good CB talent globally at the moment and I don't think Lindelof and Maguire are the reason we're not winning the league and I feel like most level-headed people know that, despite the frustration expressed at their respective gaffes.
Funny thing both of those guys used to get rinsed sporadically on here...
 

Rightnr

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It's a three prong issue. A) they were expensive, B) they're not exactly the best fit together and C) people got pretty freakin spoiled by Rio & Vidic. Seems like there's a dearth of good CB talent globally at the moment and I don't think Lindelof and Maguire are the reason we're not winning the league and I feel like most level-headed people know that, despite the frustration expressed at their respective gaffes.
I agree it's multi-faceted but there's a fourth dimension. We lack the quality and dynamism (in one player) in central midfield to cover their weaknesses.

As others have suggested, Rice would be the player to buy. And one thing that seems a bit overlooked is that he can also play CB, so can fill in both of the current problem areas in defence.
 

Judas

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They already look more secure with Henderson behind them, get a quality DM in front and they’re really not so bad, yes we could do with an upgrade on Lindelof but we’ve a lot of other positions to sort.
 

A-man

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It’s been an improvment in the whole backline this season. Henderson is also a goalkeeper who is more contributing to the whole team defending, rather than skilled individually.

I wrote in another thread, that if we want to get more points in the PL, we need to score more goals.

We lost 2 PL matches at the beginning of the season with Lindelof and Maguire, but it is now 6 months without losing.

We have 8 draws with Lindelof-Maguire, and this is where we need to improve. In 6 of those 8 draws, we kept clean sheets. Only way to improve this is to score more goals.

So overall, when this pair has been playing, we haven’t lost in 6 months and we only have two draws where we conceded any goals.

I think City have a better pair for the football they play. But I doubt they would do a good job at United.

I definitely believe adding a good DM would have more impact than adding a good CB.
 

gerdm07

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A better passing DM would make our two CBs even better. We need a DM more than we need a CB. In fact, we need a better DM more than any other position.
 

SinNombre

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Only City have conceded less goals or xG than us once we correctly ignore the nonsense of the first few weeks with some teams in preseason and some teams not.

24 goals conceded in 30 games is perfectly ok to win a league.

As are 60 goals scored in those 30 games.

You are looking at fine margins from where we are.

Score another 5 goals, concede 5 less and our form over the previous 30 games will be sufficient.

We are averaging 2.2ppg and need to average 2.4ppg to win the league.

That jump needs genuine quality but people need to behave on the quality that the team currently has which is solid.
 

cyberman

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As did Leibzig and Lyon last year. Can you see them winning it with their defence?
Winning it and going deep are two different points. Hell we have played 3 of the semi finalists this year and were untroubled in 5 and a half games of them. Even then that half game we lost v PSG because we missed 1v1, open goals and a red card. Nobody overran us.
I would never have told you VVD at Southampton would lead Liverpool to 2 CL finals in a row, Stones would improve so much at City or Rudiger would be doing his Baresi impression v Madrid in a semi final.
 

SAFMUTD

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I would only swap them with Liverpool's and City's CBs. All the others are either on the same level or below.
 

RedDevilzFox

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Can you see that pair being part of a title challenging team, deep stages of CL or team to win a major cup?
Yes, but winning titles or CL has major elements of luck, tactics and in-game management involved. I think our manager limits us in some of those areas.

To put it another way, I can see us winning titles with Pep/Klopp in charge of this team give or take some small changes.
 

tjb

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It's a three prong issue. A) they were expensive, B) they're not exactly the best fit together and C) people got pretty freakin spoiled by Rio & Vidic. Seems like there's a dearth of good CB talent globally at the moment and I don't think Lindelof and Maguire are the reason we're not winning the league and I feel like most level-headed people know that, despite the frustration expressed at their respective gaffes.
Ironically, I feel that the people head of them who are "protecting them" are the reason we are not winning a league. Fred and Mctominay's inability to hold or progress the ball puts unnecessary strain on our defence to take that responsibility.
 

norm87cro

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Look I don't know but I just don't feel too comftorable with them two. The one is pretty slow and the other gets bullied a lot. With that being said Harry can look very good with a right partner. I just don't see how Lindelof can impose himself in England
 

Tallis

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My biggest concern with our defense is that except Macguire, the rest are average in the air. That’s why we concede so many from corners and free kicks.
 

red thru&thru

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I think there were big issues whilst DDG was in goal. The defence just weren't looking confident. Henderson, a more proactive keeper who comes out for crosses and sweeps up more, seemed to have given some assurances to the back line.

Now we just need the player in front of them who can collect the ball and begin attacks. A version of Carrick would do just nicely.
 

ivaldo

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The Leicester CBs are ridiculously overrated on here. I can only assume most don't really watch them play often.
 

Lebo

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People tend to forget how good vs average our defence looks with McFred vs without. I honestly feel like every opportunity going our way becomes dangerous if it successfully bypasses the 2 . With that said, I think they are both good players but games with an inform Bailly can give an idea of what we should be aiming for. They aren’t priority in terms of replacing though.