We would certainly make a lot more fouls that's for sure.
If Pep took over us instead of City would we have won the PL ?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Yes he would have won the league at least once.
Yes, but as someone said, he’d have to have free reign to buy and sell whoever he wants. He’s been the best manager in the world since Fergie retired and is one of the greatest of all-time. He managed the best team to ever play football. He had won 6 titles in 7 seasons prior to his arrival in England. Simple question.
If brought in as Fergusons replacement i think so. Less likely coming in after LVG and Mourinho as it was big rebuild and I doubt the poor recruitment would improve much with Pep in charge and would he happy not to receive targets in the transfer windows?
Many go on about Pep struggling to understand Fergusons strong scottish accent in 2012 but I'd say the conversation was a real eye opener to the challenge in the United hotseat and having to work under such incompetent owners and a clueless chief executive.
Many go on about Pep struggling to understand Fergusons strong scottish accent in 2012 but I'd say the conversation was a real eye opener to the challenge in the United hotseat and having to work under such incompetent owners and a clueless chief executive.
Agreed. Pep had always had jobs where he had the best squad and virtually an open cheque book. What Klopp did with Liverpool was much more impressive
I think so yes. You also have to consider the allure to players : Playing for Manchester United and Pep would be a dream for most players.
I also think players like Rashford would have massively improved under him. Some players need help with decision making and having set patterns of play and direction would massively improve them.
I think Pep and Klopp both are a step above other managers, and would have won trophies with us.
I also think players like Rashford would have massively improved under him. Some players need help with decision making and having set patterns of play and direction would massively improve them.
I think Pep and Klopp both are a step above other managers, and would have won trophies with us.
Well if he has 700m to spend here instead (the amount we’ve spent since he took over City), I think we will surely have won at least 1 or 2 league titles by now.
Yes, bo doubt. He would put pressure on the board to back him up with transfers as well. But more importantly he would pump his football philosophy into us. And that would take us up a level or two.
I suppose it'd get easier to sign top players with him in charge than with Moyes and van Gaal.
Such a shame two of the best managers are now coaching our biggest rivals. Pep is the one I wanted, his teams play mesmerizing football (although Klopp has a better instinct for players).
I suppose it'd get easier to sign top players with him in charge than with Moyes and van Gaal.
Such a shame two of the best managers are now coaching our biggest rivals. Pep is the one I wanted, his teams play mesmerizing football (although Klopp has a better instinct for players).
Just to put something into perspective
Manchester City
Joined City
1 JULY 2016
I can't help but being amused at Pep haters that ridiculously claims:
1. He needs the team to his vision (well doh, that's what great manager does)
2. He needs expensive players (At least he bought big and deliver)
3. He needs to be backed 100% (He earnt it being the best active manager in the job)
Yet at the same time defending poor ole
1. He's hamstrung by Ed, he only got 300M to spend
2. He needs to be judged when we have Sancho, Halaand, and a new CB, which practically if realized made our total spending close to 1bn with nothing to show
3. Ole doesn't have 150M fto spend on fullback, he just have 130M, how can he compete.
I mean, you can support ole, but for the love of god be realistic, this is Pep Guardiola we're talking about. This same of bollocks we used to laugh on RAWK about SAF won't cut it if he joins Liverpool instead of United. It reeks jealousy and pettiness.
Manchester City
- Premier League: 2017–18, 2018–19[229]
- FA Cup: 2018–19
- EFL Cup: 2017–18, 2018–19, 2019–20
- FA Community Shield: 2018, 2019
Joined City
1 JULY 2016
I can't help but being amused at Pep haters that ridiculously claims:
1. He needs the team to his vision (well doh, that's what great manager does)
2. He needs expensive players (At least he bought big and deliver)
3. He needs to be backed 100% (He earnt it being the best active manager in the job)
Yet at the same time defending poor ole
1. He's hamstrung by Ed, he only got 300M to spend
2. He needs to be judged when we have Sancho, Halaand, and a new CB, which practically if realized made our total spending close to 1bn with nothing to show
3. Ole doesn't have 150M fto spend on fullback, he just have 130M, how can he compete.
I mean, you can support ole, but for the love of god be realistic, this is Pep Guardiola we're talking about. This same of bollocks we used to laugh on RAWK about SAF won't cut it if he joins Liverpool instead of United. It reeks jealousy and pettiness.
But we didnt sign a 60m defender to keep him out in the same summer!
And thats just one defender, he has hundreds of millions worthof players in the same boat.
At Utd we would never have been able to spend 100m on a position where we already had Laporte and bench him. Only an oil club can do that.
Replace "Defending poor Ole" with "Defending poor Jose" and that would be your posts till Dec 2018Also a 20m full back who we've sent out on loan.
Hes the best manager since Fergie so i think its pretty obvious we would have continued winning. Not only because we would have had him but also because City would NOT have him.
Pretty sure out net spend in the same time has been nearly as high if not more than City.
Not really true. We signed Pogba for 89 million, signed Matic for 40 million. We already had Herrera. Then we signed Fred for 50 million and De beek for 35-40 million.
It's not a stick at all. My point is that those who suggest Guardiola would fail here because he needs extensive resources ignore the fact that United do have extensive resources. We like to pretend we're the poor but honest neighbour feeding on scraps when in reality we're one of football's biggest spenders.If we're gonna use diallo as a stick to beat with, I feel I have to mention the combine cost of our starting front three today is £15mil
The argument that our haphazard recruitment wouldn't be any better with Guardiola in charge has more merit.
Fernandinho, silva, Kompany, De bruyne, augero, Sterling.
His best and most critical players, he actually inherited.
However I’m most impressed with him this season which is actually odd because he’s found another way to win.
His buys actually haven’t been all that great.
His best and most critical players, he actually inherited.
However I’m most impressed with him this season which is actually odd because he’s found another way to win.
His buys actually haven’t been all that great.
Pep spent more than 500m until he got his first PL title and he had 5 of KDB, Aguero, Kompany, Silva, Fernandinho & even another one Sterling before he spent those 500m. First of all, it will take us minimum 4 or 5 years to give Pep 500m money and second, he might need more than 500m because our squad before Mourinho came was nowhere near Man City who had those 5 players. In my opinion, probably not because his system requires specific players, we didn’t have the players and we don’t have the same money power.
Well, he spent 800m-900m, it is not surprising. It just means that even without Silva, Fernandinho, Kompany and Aguero, he still has very expensive investment of squad he brought into the squad.
Pep's a much better coach than Klopp, why do you think Klopp would have done better here than Pep?
I absolutely think so. If, that is, he was given time to implement his philosophy and playstyle. Instead we have gone from one extreme to another which has left us without the needed continuity to rebuild the club.
In adddition, I don't think City would be the stable force they are today without him. So we would probably have one less competitor for the title in most years.
In adddition, I don't think City would be the stable force they are today without him. So we would probably have one less competitor for the title in most years.
There seems to be a suggestion in the OP that where United have spent their £700m poorly, City under Pep have spent well.
Let’s not dismiss the spine he started with and the enormous amounts he’s pissed away himself. He loves buying expensive defenders seemingly every year that don’t do much.
Let’s not dismiss the spine he started with and the enormous amounts he’s pissed away himself. He loves buying expensive defenders seemingly every year that don’t do much.
Pep is off course on of the best managers in the world, but NO MANAGER CAN DO MAGIC.
The best coaches are also the most cynical when choosing clubs. They choose the right club at the right time; the table is often already covered to a certain extent and it’s a non failed mission (first of all an upside). Both Pep and Klopp are good examples. Example Rodgers build a pretty good base and prepared the ground for Klopp, and City was already a winning team when Pep joined,
If Pep had replaced Moyes or LVG and was able to spend 700m, I think it’s a fair chance we would’ve been up there with Liverpool and City, but still no PL title guarantee.
Pep or Klopp would likely have said no to an offer from United. They chose clubs very carefully and don’t want to risk their career. Red flags during their due diligence: high expectations, comparison with SAF, no quick fix, need time without knowing United is patient enough.
Klopp is better at making teams punch above their weight without needing ridiculously heavy investment. With all due respect to Pep the teams he`s managed any half decent manager would win something. The Barca team he inherited was one of the best teams in the world that was on the cusp of greatness, Bayern is in a one horse title race(and he failed to win a CL there despite the level of talent he had and what he added whilst he was there) and he`s spent the type of money at City which if he didn`t win anything major would be a major major shock
Klopp on the other hand took a Mainz team that was relegated into European football(albeit briefly) won two back to back Bundesliga titles with a BVB team that have always been underdogs in a league HEAVILY dominated by Bayern on top of getting them to a CL final and got a Liverpool team that has been a sleeping giant for decades to a CL title and PL title despite not spending anywhere near as close as Pep he`s made average to decent players in that LFC team look world class and implemented a consistent system. Klopp would have 100% won us a title here even with The Glazers. Pep with our owners wouldn`t have lasted 2 years
Pep is the best coach in the world when he has all the pieces there. He can get a level out of a team that I’ve rarely seen, but he’s also only ever had jobs where it’s pretty easy for him.
Klopp is the better manager. He is a better man manager and he is better at getting more from average players. Utd don’t have the unlimited chequebook so I think Pep would have failed here, quite spectacularly to be honest.
I think you're going a little over the top there (though I wouldn't rule out that there are posts further back in this thread that justifies that).
As you point out yourself, Guardiola isn't the sort of manager who makes the best of what he has, he's the sort of manager who has a very clear and specific vision of how he wants his teams to play, and consequently he requires players who fit his vision. You are totally right that he deserves to get that kind of backing and control - indeed, it would seem a huge waste to hire a man like that if you're not prepared to give him that. You are also right that the has proven repeatedly that he is able to assemble great teams.
But the question here is a hypothetical - how would he do with this United team? The obvious reply to that would in my opinion be that this United team is not constructed to fit his vision. Though certainly it has a good few players he would seem likely stick with, you'd have to assume there'd be quite extensive changes over a period of time. In the mean time, I doubt they could play effectively the way he prefers his teams to play. But I have no doubt whatsoever that given time and resources, Pep would make United a winner, just like he made Barcelona, Bayern and City winners. The man's a genius.
And really, the digs at Ole are uncalled for. Unlike Pep, he inherited a squad with very large needs for upgrades and replacements at almost every position. Addressing them as quickly as any United manager needs to (just look at the level of patience in evidence around here...) is going to cost a lot of money, and there is no other way. Many of those needs are still unaddressed. Comparing spends between different managers and teams who are in very different places is really rather pointless.
If he came in after Fergie maybe he would have succeeded as our "Defending Champions" title and Pep`s reputation would have had us punching above our weight more than under Moyes. Thiago Alcantara would have 100% come here and maybe a winger maybe Bale who`d prefer to play with Pep than Moyes. Reckon Evans would have had a good career here as he`s more of a "Pep CB" than Smalling and Jones at the time. Rio and Vidic would have still performed baldy they were finished.
De Gea, Valencia(RB), Evans, Carrick, Rooney and RVP would have been key players to build a base with on top of Thiago and a new winger. If we added a top CB, LB, another winger and maybe a younger DM the next season we`d have pipped Chelsea to the title.
Different case if he came after LVG our squad was a mess and our reputation was in the gutter. Maybe De Gea, Valencia(RB), Blind, Rashford and Martial would have been okay under him but it would have been harder for him to make us a winning team if he came in 2016 than 2013.
De Gea, Valencia(RB), Evans, Carrick, Rooney and RVP would have been key players to build a base with on top of Thiago and a new winger. If we added a top CB, LB, another winger and maybe a younger DM the next season we`d have pipped Chelsea to the title.
Different case if he came after LVG our squad was a mess and our reputation was in the gutter. Maybe De Gea, Valencia(RB), Blind, Rashford and Martial would have been okay under him but it would have been harder for him to make us a winning team if he came in 2016 than 2013.
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Naive. Moyes got Fellaini, then Mata. With 3-4 correct, immediate buys and outgoings, the whole squad looks different. Pep would of course win the league here, a superior manager. Not only that, we would play excellent football everyone would love.
Our midfield was neglected for 7 to 8 years. Even when we signed Pogba we had to cheap out with a free transfer up top in Ibra and a he could be good wide man from Dortmund.
Those transfers that spanned years is 12 months of transfers for Pep.
Im not saying we dont spend money but Pep spent over half a billion on a squad that already had KDB, Silva, Fernandinho, Aguero and Sterling playing. If he didnt have those and came into a side that had EL and finished 5th and had to spend money on positions that cost the biiig money then God knows what the budget would be.
Imagine what he would have had to spend to fix our midfield, defence and replace Rooney, Lingard, Mata etc. He wouldnt be playing Martial and Rashford at such a young age ala Foden so add in players in those positions as well and then he would need a massive squad behind the starting 11.
Theres no way we could budget for that. We would never have spent 50m on another LB if we spent so much on Mendy, for example. Impossible.
Probably. No offence to Ole but I don’t remember hearing many players that have signed for you talk about how much they wanted to work with him etc. It’s mostly down to wanting to play for United. With Pep you’d have both draws.
He'd win the league anywhere where he's given a massive amount of money to spend.
I don't think so. He's not a manager who can build and rebuild, he needs a top team in place for him to come and apply the finishing touches with a near unlimited budget. At Barcelona, Bayern and City the core of his teams have been players that were there when he arrived and he has had a scattergun approach to recruitment, with no penalty for failure.
He wouldn't cope so well with arriving here to find Smalling, Jones and Fellaini smiling back at him, and knowing if he wastes 50m on a position he's going to have to justify why he needs to spend another 50m the following summer.
He wouldn't cope so well with arriving here to find Smalling, Jones and Fellaini smiling back at him, and knowing if he wastes 50m on a position he's going to have to justify why he needs to spend another 50m the following summer.
Yeah but you should go with the fancy method where you arbitrarily choose only defenders, so your point strenghtens. Oh and please include goalkeepers, too.
And by this stage, even if we won a title under Klopp, we would ned to start all over again and would be behind where we are now. Klopp's teams perform at maximum for 2.5 seasons... we know this... we have two precedents.
This is why why Fergie didn't opt for Pep or Jose or Klopp... they're seasonal managers... their teams only work and are run into the ground for 3 seasons max. Alex wanted - as he is his football philosophy - to maintain a dominance over many years, not just three. It's why he went for Moyes.. but our stupid new CEO didn't gahve the patience to wait for Moyes to take control... now we've got some fans who can't even wait for Ole.... some folk just never learn, I guess.
Even if you believe that Pep and Klopp have intensive styles that take a lot out of the players , its reasonable to suggest that they would have firstly, seen success already and secondly, leave behind a far better team than before. I personally believe Klopp might have peaked with this Liverpool side, but he's rebuilt that team into world class players, when he leaves he will no doubt leave behind a better team than he inherited. Its similar at City but i refuse to give that oil club any credit.
Seriously though you cant have actually wanted us to keep Moyes and actually instead of Klopp/Pep.
Just put a poll there will be the most one sided yes in CAF history.
Sure, if you ignore all the many reports and quotes by other manager that suggest Moyes wasn't our first choice, as well as quotes from SAF himself:
"I asked Pep to phone me before he accepted an offer from another club but he didn't and wound up joining Bayern Munich in July 2013. When we started the process of looking for my replacement, we established that several very desirable candidates were unavailable.
It became apparent that Jose Mourinho had given his word to Roman Abramovich that he would return to Chelsea and that Carlo Ancelotti would succeed him at Real Madrid. We also knew that Jurgen Klopp was happy at Borussia Dortmund and would be signing a new contract. Meantime, Louis van Gaal had undertaken to lead the Dutch attempt to win the 2014 World Cup. We chose David Moyes."
No, it wasn't neglected.
We signed Fellaini for 27 million, Herrera for 30 million, Schneiderlin for 25 million, Bastian for 6 million and also Blind for 14 million before signing Pogba and that;s in just 3 summer windows.
Ibra was not a cheap transfer, he was highest paid player in the league and also insane signing on fee. Mkhi was signed for 26-30 million which was a big transfer fee back then.
He also won league title with KdB missing whole season, he won league title with players like Otamendi and Stones as CBs.
We spent 89 million on Pogba and then spent 50 million on Fred, we spent 35-40 million on Lindelof, Bailly and then spent 80 million on Maguire. So why wouldn't we spend on another LB?
We have spent shit loads of money but always had inferior managers. Do the same thing with managers like Pep, Klopp then we will win titles. It's not even controversial thing or illogical thing, better managers have better chances of winning the league. Considering Pep and Klopp are top 2 managers in the league, chances are very high that they would have won the league.
Btw we have spent insane amount to replace ageing players just like any other club.
Absolutely no chance, not in a millions years. I could win the league with City and I genuinely 100% believe that
If we had appointed Klopp (or even Jose) directly after SAF then maybe
If we had appointed Klopp (or even Jose) directly after SAF then maybe
You didn't hear a lot of players of Barcelona saying that they were desperate to work under Pep, considering he was promoted from Barcelona B to first team manager during the actual career peak of the best group of players that football has ever seen. Pep could not have picked a more fortunate time to take over a club if he got to spend 100 years picking and choosing his moment to get it just right.
Iniesta, Xavi, Messi, Puyol, Busquets, Alves, Henry, Piqué, Abidal, Yaya Touré, Valdés, etc. This is a team you pick when you play Football Manager with cheatcodes.
Pep achieved great things with Barcelona. With a who's who of legends of the game at his disposal from day 1.
Pep did not achieve great things with Bayern Münich
Pep achieved domestic expectation with Manchester City.
He's a manager that plays good football when he can buy players from the top of the shelf and then a couple more.
It's completely fair to argue that Pep is not as much a result of his managerial ability as he is a result of having the best players of the game available to him.
Would he come here and transform the team into title winners? The thing I can say is that Pep has never come into a team that was not already expecting to win the title, having to build something from the ground up. He's always come to a table fully decked and have some cake too.