If Poch takes over, how does he fix this mess?

[jackal&hyde]

Good luck to you in thinking the players returning will help us. Ole is crap. As I’ve said if he took over at Liverpool they would fall out the top 4. We both know it’s true.

I don't know if that's true but i know i've seen some of these players fail big time under 2 or 3 managers now and crap manager or not, crap players remain crap players regardless. Like i've said, when we had our best players out there i thought we looked ok more often then not. Injuries decimate us though and that to me it speaks of a very, very poor squad.

 

[Mainoldo]

I don't know if that's true but i know i've seen some of these players fail big time under 2 or 3 managers now and crap manager or not, crap players remain crap players regardless. Like i've said, when we had our best players out there i thought we looked ok more often then not. Injuries decimate us though and that to me it speaks of a very, very poor squad.

Some of these players? Who? De Gea? From the players that played yesterday who have you seen fail under 2 or 3 managers?

 

[Castia]

It wouldn’t be in a instant fix he’ll need time just like Ole. At the very least though we’ll get a proper formation and coached team in place, a back room setup capable of challenging once the right recruitment is made.

The main problem I have at the moment is even if Ole was given 4-5 top signings he wouldn’t get the best out of the players anyway, if Ole had a squad on par with City/Liverpool I think he’d still struggle.

 

[jackal&hyde]

Some of these players? Who? De Gea? From the players that played yesterday who have you seen fail under 2 or 3 managers?

Under Mou and Ole, Fred, Pereira and Jones. Some of the others are good but young and can give you good games like beating good teams and playing good and then show their inconsistency with games like yesterday and a few others we have seen.

 

[RedWat]

I think Poch would be the next in the line of failed managers, for a number of reasons.

The guy was obviously burnt out for one. He likely needs an extended break at the very least before he'll be back to his best.

Secondly, I don't think he's got the personality to cope with the pressure of a dysfunctional United. It takes a special kind of character to sustain any kind of success at the high-end of football, and I don't see that in Poch at all. He doesn't seem to have the grit, the obsessive determination of a SAF or a Pep. He also appears to have his heart set on Madrid, which sort of adds to that worry.

Last of all, I think what we've been crying out for since SAF is not someone who's 'Been there and done that', but someone on the way up, who's developed just the right base of knowledge & experience while still having the energy and desire to prove himself (Ala Klopp at Dortmund). Someone with a positive tactical approach and the ability to imprint it quickly, to bring back a bit of character to our club. Maybe Poch is that guy? I personally don't see it.

I don't watch enough football outside of United to say who that guy could be really. Rose & Nagelsmann both seem like strong candidates, playing good football and punching above their weight in Germany, but I don't see us landing either. I'm sure there are plenty of similar up and coming managers flying under the radar, if anyone can suggest some names?

I hope Ole pulls it out of the bag of course, but signs so far don't bode well on that front I'd say.

Hmm interesting, I think Poch more needed a change rather than being burnt out. He was saying before the CL Final that he would leave if they won. It maybe would have been best for him to have walked after the final. most likely now to have a break for a few months and be fully recharged for a new challenge.Even Klopp had a very poor last season at Dortmund which led him to say he was leaving at the end of the season, even some thought he was burnt out after his success at Dortmund, now look at him after a little rest and moving to Liverpool.

I would be very surprised however if that new challenge is Man Utd (under the current ownership), from Levy to Woodward would be like going from the frying pan into the fire. Something tells me though that the Glazer's/Woodward will try their hardest to keep Ole even if results get worse, as they know he is not going to criticise them concerning not getting sufficient new signings as he is still in "I can't believe I'm the Man Utd manager, and I don't want to rock the boat" mode.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Our defense is still weak after spending £130m on it over the summer.

The only midfielder who can pass the ball is injured and doesn’t want to be here.

Our forwards seem unable to play together as a team.

If Posh takes over, is it going to be like starting from scratch once again? But this time from a lower base.

Victoria Beckham is taking over ?

 

[Buster15]

Coaching. You would be surprised at the difference a quality coach will make to a team.

100% agree. We have players who are talented enough.
But talent accounts for very little if you are not prepared to do the hard work.
When was the last time United were described as Well Drilled?

 

[Mainoldo]

Under Mou and Ole, Fred, Pereira and Jones. Some of the others are good but young and can give you good games like beating good teams and playing good and then show their inconsistency with games like yesterday and a few others we have seen.

But it’s not a good arguement is it. Your talking about 3 players. 2 of which have never been first team and one player every coach in world football should now realise is just a liability to himself.

Our team was way more talented than the opposition. The only thing that separated us was the set up. They looked like a team we looked like an 11 a side link up from one man’s group chat.

 

[roonster09]

He won't fix the issue right away but he will, he is someone who had set up his team to play dominant style of play against European super clubs like Juventus. I remember him playing midfield of Ryan Mason and Eric Dier, still made it to work. There is more than one way to set up the team and he was successful in setting up functional one.

He has good record of improving players and also setting up team to play dominant football, they were hard team to play against because of how hard the team worked. It all went to shit this year from Jan but overall he has good enough record.

At ManUtd he will have good young players to work with and then will have money to refresh the squad every season.

 

[DRM]

I was thinking about this last night...why on earth out Poch want to come here? Average squad, light years behind city and liverpool, heck even spurs have a better squad than us. Surely he would prefer the Bayern job over our poisoned chalice? Guaranteed a league win (most seasons anyway), decent stab at the CL. Its an no brainer really isnt it?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I was thinking about this last night...why on earth out Poch want to come here? Average squad, light years behind city and liverpool, heck even spurs have a better squad than us. Surely he would prefer the Bayern job over our poisoned chalice? Guaranteed a league win (most seasons anyway), decent stab at the CL. Its an no brainer really isnt it?

1. Who knows if Bayern want him.
2. Prestige
3. Maybe he likes English football
4. MONEY MONEY MONEY

 

[Mainoldo]

I was thinking about this last night...why on earth out Poch want to come here? Average squad, light years behind city and liverpool, heck even spurs have a better squad than us. Surely he would prefer the Bayern job over our poisoned chalice? Guaranteed a league win (most seasons anyway), decent stab at the CL. Its an no brainer really isnt it?

Maybe because unlike you he knows this isn’t an average squad and he’s knows we spend more money and offer better wages the all the European elite bare Madrid And Barca.

That a good enough reason for you?

 

[DRM]

Maybe because unlike you he knows this isn’t an average squad and he’s knows we spend more money and offer better wages the all the European elite bare Madrid And Barca.

That a good enough reason for you?

Well i'm convinced, sure as hell hope Poch is too

 

[glazed]

I would be very surprised however if that new challenge is Man Utd (under the current ownership), from Levy to Woodward would be like going from the frying pan into the fire. Something tells me though that the Glazer's/Woodward will try their hardest to keep Ole even if results get worse, as they know he is not going to criticise them concerning not getting sufficient new signings as he is still in "I can't believe I'm the Man Utd manager, and I don't want to rock the boat" mode.

This seems to be about right. Disgraceful way to run a football club.

 

[Sky1981]

Poch is getting paid millions monthly to figure this shit out.

But somehow armchair fans can know better

 

[AshRK]

It will take time and considering how much we fans flip flop, won't surprise if fans get tired of him and ask for his sack.

 

[saivet]

I don't think Poch would come in and be a roaring success winning us the big trophies, but what we need right now is to at least build a platform for success. If we can become a regular top 4 side, we can at least look to make a step forward for those big titles.

I think he would be that right profile of manager to bring us to a level where we are at least in a position to challenge. He's certainly not the only guy, but definitely a strong candidate.

Some claim if we sack Ole we are starting from scratch again, but I think the principles in Ole's transfer strategy (apart from not replacing players) fit with Poch. I doubt Poch will come in and want Dan James out and wish he had Alexis.

You can talk about trophies, but ultimately an FA Cup, League Cup or Europa League does not bring stability or elevate the club. Those trophies were won by our previous managers but our league performances are the main concern as they have been hugely inconsistent (or consistently disappointing).

 

[starman]

He loads up Fifa or FM like the rest of his fanboys and imaginations run wild. The distinction between fantasy and reality become blurred

 

[hobbers]

It's quite simple. If Poch came in now, he would get us back to being a side capable of at least competing for a top 4 spot, at minimum, by the end of next season.

Ole isn't even going to get us qualifying for Europa by then. We've not even bottomed-out of this Ole-inspired downward spiral.

 

[BusbyMalone]

It's not necessarily about what he can do NOW, it's about asking the question who's more likely to sort us out in the long term. Poch or Ole?

As much as i love Ole, there has to be a fair bit of delusion in you if you think that he's a better coach than Poch. He's not going to come into this squad and suddenly catapult us up into second - we're not a good enough team for that. But, again, that's not the issue. That's why when everyone goes on about "well, no manager could do anything with this squad" they're completely missing the point. The question is, who's better placed to take us in the right direction.

The answer is an easy one for me.

 

[VP89]

I'm quite astounded that Ed hasn't already switched.

There are close to zero reasons to keep Ole. He doesn't coach adequately, he evidently makes inconsistent line ups, he has mis evaluated the players and problem areas of the pitch and most importantly his results are stackable in form.

If we waited and sacked after he really bombs, losing Poch is one thing but seeing it potentially turn sour under a legend is not a pretty sight.

 

[Ikon]

I don't think Poch would come in and be a roaring success winning us the big trophies, but what we need right now is to at least build a platform for success. If we can become a regular top 4 side, we can at least look to make a step forward for those big titles..

For me, I am just wondering how long Poch would be given by United supporters before they are demanding he be sacked if he isn't an immediate roaring success..."no silverware on his CV"..."No plan B tactically"..etc
What does he get, one season? One transfer window? 6 months? 3 years?...I genuinely don't know.

 

[BlahRules]

Sheffield were impressive in that regard in some sequences

Sheffield United second goal where Fleck did a diagonal pass. The amount of times I saw our players had the chance to do the same pass to put through a player in goal is ridiculous. I am not talking about the game against Sheffield but in general.

Can our player execute that type of pass, or do they lack vision or lack confidence in pulling off the pass? Whatever the reason it is a disgrace for the amount we pay them every week. Especially when lesser teams can do this with ease.

 

[saivet]

For me, I am just wondering how long Poch would be given by United supporters before they are demanding he be sacked if he isn't an immediate roaring success..."no silverware on his CV"..."No plan B tactically"..etc
What does he get, one season? One transfer window? 6 months? 3 years?...I genuinely don't know.

Probably the same as Mourinho and LVG. At least 1.5 seasons I would imagine.

More inexperienced managers like Moyes (at a top team) and Ole (in a top league) will get less less time considering there is less historical evidence of their success.

Really and truly, all it comes down to is progress. Under LVG, we saw something in his first season, but in his second, poor football, awful CL exit, he had to go.

Jose the same, some progress but even in the season he finished second, there were big concerns being developed already.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Im confident there would be an immediate visible difference in the way the players are coached. Results might not get immediately better due to lots of dross around the starting 11 and injuries BUT performances would be visibly improved.

 

[Majima]

100% agree. We have players who are talented enough.
But talent accounts for very little if you are not prepared to do the hard work.
When was the last time United were described as Well Drilled?

Back in SAF' final season with RVP in 2012/13 so 7 years ago. Under SAF we were drilled religiously with simple instructions. That's why we had players like Cleverly part of championship winning teams.

I would say the only manager to come close since was Van Gaal in his 1st season. He had us well drilled that season, when we beat the top teams. The best performance I've seen of us in years was the historic performance at Juanfield.

People have got it backwards when they say "wait until we've brought x amount of players, 3/4 windows etc". Under a good manager, you can see some sort of progress straight away usually. Van Gaal had us passing out from the back and keeping a progressive shape in pre-season for instance.

A good manager makes players play above their means. Like what Klopp is doing at Liverpool. Jordan Henderson & Milner part of a PL winning team? If you put them in our team, everyone would be calling them dead wood and finished.

 

[AshRK]

Im confident there would be an immediate visible difference in the way the players are coached. Results might not get immediately better due to lots of dross around the starting 11 and injuries BUT performances would be visibly improved.

I doubt we will see an instant improvement even in performance. We will score goals but Poch or for that matter any manager cannot turn dross into quality. If we keep on rewarding average and nothing players like Lingard, Periera, Jones, Rojo, Young, Mata we will go nowhere.

 

[Buster15]

Back in SAF' final season with RVP in 2012/13 so 7 years ago. Under SAF we were drilled religiously with simple instructions. That's why we had players like Cleverly part of championship winning teams.

People have got it backwards when they say "wait until we've brought x amount of players, 3/4 windows etc". Under a good manager, you can see some sort of progress straight away usually.

A good manager makes players play above their means. Like what Klopp is doing at Liverpool. Jordan Henderson & Milner part of a PL winning team? If you put them in our team, everyone would be calling them dead wood and finished.

All totally correct.
Playing for Manchester United under the big man used to mean something and as you say players used to raise their performance level. Not always but usually. And they knew that if they were not doing what he expected then there was only one outcome.
Now it has to be said that playing for Manchester United only means one thing. Money. Pure and simple.
And that is a detectable state of affairs.

 

[Roboc7]

For me it’s untenable that Ole is here next season, club should be talking to Poch already and just question of when not if he is brought in.

Poch would coach the players collectively and individually and establish a style of play. We don’t have any of that (not to a high level at least), I keep seeing people trying to quantify how long manager should get in transfer windows. But buying and selling players won’t save us, we aren’t good at it and we’re not ambitious enough.
We need someone who can improve us in other ways not be reliant on transfer windows.

 

[Blueman]

Having not won anything major in his managerial career, having lost his dressing room spectacularly, and now having been sacked, I suspect Poch is going through a bit of an introspective phase and wondering if he actually is as good as he thought. I think United might be the right club for him right now

 

[Ban]

It's not a mess, it's a very decent team being coached by an arsehole. Poch would presumably give us a system of play and coach the players on how to play football.

Is the arsehole thing really I mean rally necessary?

 

[Crashoutcassius]

It wouldn’t be in a instant fix he’ll need time just like Ole. At the very least though we’ll get a proper formation and coached team in place, a back room setup capable of challenging once the right recruitment is made.

The main problem I have at the moment is even if Ole was given 4-5 top signings he wouldn’t get the best out of the players anyway, if Ole had a squad on par with City/Liverpool I think he’d still struggle.

a proper formation... nobody has ever won a game with the wierd 4231 that ole has played in 80% of games... ole invented the concept of the number 10

 

[bosnian_red]

Our forwards can play together pretty well. I'd say they have all linked together really well. Our defence is decent on the whole, but not perfect of course. Main culprit is the midfield having 0 control, 0 creativity and 0 defensive shielding. Pretty big impact on a team. What Pochettino would need to do is a big midfield revamp, and then tiny fixes elsewhere (mostly depth). I suspect he would do something like this (assuming we're going to sell Pogba in the summer):

De Gea
AWB Tuanzebe Maguire Shaw
McTominay ???
James ??? Rashford
Martial

Romero
Dalot Lindelof Rojo Williams
Lingard Fred ???
Greenwood Haaland Gomes
​

Really the big thing is midfield, where we'll need a few in and a few out both to suit his style, but also to fill gaps. But that's for any manager who comes or if Ole stays, as I'm not convinced Pochettino will actually come.

 

[andycolegangstainnit]

I doubt we will see an instant improvement even in performance. We will score goals but Poch or for that matter any manager cannot turn dross into quality. If we keep on rewarding average and nothing players like Lingard, Periera, Jones, Rojo, Young, Mata we will go nowhere.

We are a giant club and need results to match. That means going deep in the UCL and challenging for the Prem. The question is who is more likely to get is there, Ole or Poch? After seeing Ole for 12 months I'm afraid the answer is Poch. Ole did well for three months with Pogba on fire but now he's,lost the plot. Gis singings have been good but his tactics seem to be just to rely on the front three doing some magic. We are not dominating the teams we should be like yesterday. I think if Poch came in we would see an improvement. The players you list wouldn't actually get into my first choice XI and with a couple of additions in Jan I still think we've a chance of Top 4 or the Europa with Poch at the helm. Sadly, Ole doesn't seem up to it.

 

[fps]

And why cant Ole do that?

Only so much Ole can do with 1 transfer window......

I agree. Think it’ll be fine tbh, as long as he learns quickly that Man Utd can beat other teams without having to play differently for the occasion like that.

 

[EwanI Ted]

I would be very surprised however if that new challenge is Man Utd (under the current ownership), from Levy to Woodward would be like going from the frying pan into the fire. Something tells me though that the Glazer's/Woodward will try their hardest to keep Ole even if results get worse, as they know he is not going to criticise them concerning not getting sufficient new signings as he is still in "I can't believe I'm the Man Utd manager, and I don't want to rock the boat" mode.

I can't believe people believe still think the Glazers wouldnt sack a manager. They ditched Moyes less than 1 year into a 6 year contract, they sacked LVG days after he won the FA Cup and they sacked Jose despite it costing a fortune to do so.

 

[JPRouve]

I can't believe people believe still think the Glazers wouldnt sack a manager. They ditched Moyes less than 1 year into a 6 year contract, they sacked LVG days after he won the FA Cup and they sacked Jose despite it costing a fortune to do so.

And United spends a fortune on wage and transfers. People need to get some perspective. Last season Tottenham had around 60% of United wage bill and they spent £0.

 

[Bestietom]

We are a giant club and need results to match. That means going deep in the UCL and challenging for the Prem. The question is who is more likely to get is there, Ole or Poch? After seeing Ole for 12 months I'm afraid the answer is Poch. Ole did well for three months with Pogba on fire but now he's,lost the plot. Gis singings have been good but his tactics seem to be just to rely on the front three doing some magic. We are not dominating the teams we should be like yesterday. I think if Poch came in we would see an improvement. The players you list wouldn't actually get into my first choice XI and with a couple of additions in Jan I still think we've a chance of Top 4 or the Europa with Poch at the helm. Sadly, Ole doesn't seem up to it.

No matter who comes in, we need huge investment in this team/squad. We are far too thin for a premiership side expecting to be challenging for honours. We can all see what a few injuries does to us this season because of players not being replaced. Neville is right in saying we need at least 6 players for this team before we can think about challenging. We still have as much as 11 players who are deadwood.

 

[Castia]

a proper formation... nobody has ever won a game with the wierd 4231 that ole has played in 80% of games... ole invented the concept of the number 10

Not as easy as saying ‘right lads today were playing 4231’ is it. Work needs to be done on individual player roles and team defending etc etc.
Oh yeah I forgot Ole’s version of the 4231 is unstoppable, he’s perfected the teams formation nobody can deal with our setup...fecking hell what a daft post.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

No matter who comes in, we need huge investment in this team/squad. We are far too thin for a premiership side expecting to be challenging for honours. We can all see what a few injuries does to us this season because of players not being replaced. Neville is right in saying we need at least 6 players for this team before we can think about challenging. We still have as much as 11 players who are deadwood.

Agree with what you say. Fair play to Ole for shifting some of the deadwood but as you rightly we still have a lot of deadwood that needs replacing. The squad is very thin and I'm concerned if we have a few injuries we are in the crap. But even if we bring in a new manager, I'm not confident Woodward would give them the necessary backing needed to be challenging for top honours.